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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 693

post #20761 of 21943
1/22/13 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

So apparently it maintained the Audyssey calibration (or MultEQ would not have been listed as an option) but lost your custom settings?

I am honestly not sure. I will find out tonight after I re-run audyssey though and see if it sounds like I expect it to.

I remember when I pressed that button the remote, it was cycling through Audyssey XT32, Audyssey Flat, Audyssen Manual, Audyssey None, and I think one other.
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post #20762 of 21943
1/22/13 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by culliganman View Post

Pandora: works great but I prefer to use the Pandora on my Sony Blu-ray.
For some reason the Denon Pandora makes me sign in every time and that is a pain with the on screen keyboard. The Sony Pandora stays signed in. Perhaps there is a setting somewhere that I need to set. I don’t have network standby set to ON, could that be it?

Lastly I can truly say that I think this receiver is great.

When exiting Pandora, just change to a different source. Don't press the left arrow button all the way to back out to the NET/USB screen first. This logs you out of Pandora. If you just change sources or powering off the receiver, the AVR will retain your login information even between power cycles.
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post #20763 of 21943
1/22/13 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

I am honestly not sure. I will find out tonight after I re-run audyssey though and see if it sounds like I expect it to...
A good plan as IIRC odd things have happened occasionally to Audyssey with power outages. Then, do your Save. wink.gif
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post #20764 of 21943
1/22/13 at 8:58am
Hello guys, i have a problem with my 1 month old DENON 4311.
I have it connected to a pair of sonus faber concerto speakers, a sonus faber solo center home and a proac er1 subwoofer and the sound is horrible.
I've been reading this thread for some time , tried many things, 2 diferent mic while calibrating(i have anbother denon that works well), used a tripod with the mi...., nothing works, it gets even worse at the high freqeancies with audyssey on....
Do i have a faulty unit? The sound is thin, very harsh, it sometimes even distorts in the high frequency area when too many people are shouting at the same time (with the amp seta a -27/-25)....and this is so strange, given the fact that the speakers in question are very very smooth.....
Before the denon, the speakers were connected to a 13 year old onkyo 787 that worked great.. i don't understand how can they sound like this now....
When i run audyssey i get the big moutain on the treble region, but even without audyssey , the treble is very high and fatiding, and anoying...

sorry for some errors on my english , but i'm really pissed of..... my other system with some much more modest kef 5005.2 and a denon 2310 isn't harsh, plays a more coherent sound....the treble is normal....

please help, regards from portugal.
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post #20765 of 21943
1/22/13 at 10:16am
Most likely cause is a defective mic.
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post #20766 of 21943
1/22/13 at 10:44am
The problem is that i tried with 2 different mics (one from a denon 2310 that i know is working well cause the sound of the 2310 is good on the kef 5005.2 speakers, warm, not harsh).
Even without running audyssey the treble is just to high...it hurts.... i'm gonna connect the 2310 to the system to see if the problem persist... if it disappears than the 4311 has a problem right?
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post #20767 of 21943
1/22/13 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

I've read discussion on the AVP thread about a firmware update a year ago which fixed the DSD -10dB LFE issue, sorry to beat a dead horse but both my Denon players have the "crippled" PCM for SACD. I believe it was reported on the 4520 thread that this bug is still an issue on the 4520...I've wanted to ask this for a while, does anybody have any idea why Denon addressed this problem with the AVP and neglected doing anything about it for the 4x10, 4311 and 4520? Thanks.

I know it still exists on the 4520. I don't know why it hasn't been addressed, however it is a total non-issue from my perspective. Decoding SACD to PCM in the player doesn't IMO degrade the sound one bit, assuming you have a quality player (e.g. An Oppo). Do you think differently?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

I have 2 Denon DBP-A100(4010) players that I use in 2 different setups. I bought them at a close out price from AD w/5 year warranty.
OPPO was on my radar and still is...
It is my understanding that OPPO players do DSD to PCM at 88.2.
Unfortunately I don't own an OPPO, I do have a Marantz UD-5005 that does 88.2 kHz PCM for SACD and it sounds FINE, so no I don't think differently. It is a non-issue for most players. I drank the Kool-aid with Denon Link 3/4 (influenced by SOM & a few others here) and these particular Denon players have the "crippled" 44.1/16 PCM over HDMI for DSD. Actually this does not sound all that bad but not as good as the DSD to PCM from the UD-5005. The Denon DBP-A100 DVD-A1UDCI, DBP-4010, Marantz UD-9004 and UD-8004 players all output DSD to PCM at 44.1/16.
I'm glad you reminded us of this issue as it wasn't mentioned and should indeed be taken into account when a high-end Denon AVR owner considers getting a DenonLink player vs, say, an Oppo. To my ear sending non- DL PCM from the A100 is a distinct downgrade in SQ from bitstreamed DL, despite the restored bass from MCSACD.

BTW I had previously been alerted to other issues in the .1 ch of music recordings by Roger Dressler. Having listened to several SACD and DVDA MC discs with the ext amps turned off I found that, as he'd pointed out, on music discs the .1 ch varies wildly in both content and volume as there are no standards followed regarding .1 in the music industry. I found several instances, such as some Steely Dan recordings, where bass sounded boomy compared to the 2 ch mix. The MC mix sounded better balanced to me when I turned down the SW channel and/or decreased the LFE LPF from 120 to 80. However I had not noticed a pattern of weak bass with MC SACD bitstreamed and decoded in the AVR. AustinJerry discovered it and spent considerable time and effort doing measurements tob pin down the problem as .1 content decoded 10 dB low by the AVR, to his great credit. IME the audibility of the problem varies disc to disc and track to track.

Once aware of the issue, I came up with a workaround. I listened to several MC SACDs with ext amps turned off and cranked the MV 10 dB above normal listening level to hear and measure what should be in the room from the subs if properly decoded. I then turned the MV back down and cranked the subs up till it matched the prior SPL reading for the same music passage. Once measured in this way, the sub ch can easily be trimmed up this amount manually in the AVR for those discs. A bit of a PIA but it works. I happen to have Velodyne DD10 subs with remote controlled digital Volume control and customizable presets so it's a single button press fo me.

That said, I will file another complaint with Denon CS and encourage others to do the same.

Thanks SOM, I think most do not care about this because those of us that own these D&M players that do DSD to PCM @ 44.1 kHz/ 16 over HDMI are in the minority here. I never meant to suggest that DSD to PCM was an issue for MOST players (like OPPO) that decimate DSD to PCM @ 88.2 or 176.4 kHz. The "crippled" PCM reference was to the lower res 44.1/16 on certain D&M players (in our case, the DBP-A100 aka DBP-4010). I will also file a complaint with Denon customer service, maybe it will be addressed, probably not. Looks like the AVP owners got their attention on this...
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post #20768 of 21943
1/22/13 at 5:57pm
^Right, David. I in no way meant to imply that you were suggesting that "DSD to PCM was an issue for MOST players (like OPPO) that decimate DSD to PCM @ 88.2 or 176.4 kHz".

I could hear only a small SQ improvement when doing level-matched A/B comparisons of Oppo sending bitstream DSD to decode in the AVR vs sending Oppo-decoded PCM-only a fraction of the amount of SQ improvement of DL vs Oppo bitstream HDMI to my ears. And as I've said, DL is not exactly a night and day difference, though I am loathe to give up even relatively small but distinct SQ improvements. Each step (XT32, Audyssey Pro, DL) adds realism to the music.

Bottom line is that those with players, like Oppos, that send a nice HiRes PCM signal should surely listen to their MC SACD using PCM, as AustinJerry recommends.
Edited by SoundofMind - 1/23/13 at 4:51am
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post #20769 of 21943
1/22/13 at 7:20pm
Alright so another go with Audyssey and changing the channel levels and crossover settings got things sounding normal again smile.gif

Got all worked up over nothing.

Oh, and I just made another backup of my settings smile.gif
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post #20770 of 21943
1/23/13 at 11:38am
Quick question: so it looks like the 4311 (dont have it in front of me right now) comes with a 2 conductor 10AWG PC connection power cable. Thats huge. Anywhere know where I might find a longer cable with matching specs? I think Im gonna need it. I know I could just use an extension cable, but since Denon sent a 10AWG, Im kinda wondering if I shouldnt stick with that size... even though thats heavier than the probably 14AWG in my walls! lol
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post #20771 of 21943
1/23/13 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's not likely there was any damage done. smile.gif

Thanks again jdsmoothie! You helped put my mind at ease smile.gif
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post #20772 of 21943
1/23/13 at 3:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

Quick question: so it looks like the 4311 (dont have it in front of me right now) comes with a 2 conductor 10AWG PC connection power cable. Thats huge. Anywhere know where I might find a longer cable with matching specs? I think Im gonna need it. I know I could just use an extension cable, but since Denon sent a 10AWG, Im kinda wondering if I shouldnt stick with that size... even though thats heavier than the probably 14AWG in my walls! lol

At best, it's a 12AWG cord. More likely than not, it's 14AWG. 14AWG extension cord should be fine if you're not running extreme distances (which I doubt you are) and are not plugging multiple high wattage devices on it. I've seen UL listed 1500W electric heaters that use 16AWG wires.
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post #20773 of 21943
1/23/13 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

Quick question: so it looks like the 4311 (dont have it in front of me right now) comes with a 2 conductor 10AWG PC connection power cable. Thats huge. Anywhere know where I might find a longer cable with matching specs? I think Im gonna need it. I know I could just use an extension cable, but since Denon sent a 10AWG, Im kinda wondering if I shouldnt stick with that size... even though thats heavier than the probably 14AWG in my walls! lol

Its 14AWG b/c that is all that is needed for 15amps. I buy my cords here b/c you can get any custom length.

http://www.stayonline.com/5-15-c13-15-amp-power-cords.aspx
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post #20774 of 21943
1/23/13 at 4:49pm
Here is what you really need: http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MK2PC-PL

While you are shopping there, you can also pick up a pair of nice air-dried maple speaker plinths with 2" brass heavy feet.
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post #20775 of 21943
1/23/13 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Here is what you really need: http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MK2PC-PL

While you are shopping there, you can also pick up a pair of nice air-dried maple speaker plinths with 2" brass heavy feet.

That won't work. They only come in a maximum of 6'. Maybe he can get them to do a custom cord for him though. Or better yet, take a gander at these 10' puppies:

http://www.essentialsound.com/product/Essence_Cord.html
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post #20776 of 21943
1/23/13 at 5:56pm
Yes, that will do it too! rolleyes.gif
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post #20777 of 21943
1/23/13 at 7:56pm
Unfortunately, they're out of stock at the moment...
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post #20778 of 21943
1/23/13 at 9:04pm
Ha ha you guys are great! Thanks!

And you were right, it was only a 14 AWG wire.

I haven't tried it yet, but will a more standard three conductor version of those PC power cables work in the receivers two conductor slot?
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post #20779 of 21943
1/23/13 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

Ha ha you guys are great! Thanks!

And you were right, it was only a 14 AWG wire.

I haven't tried it yet, but will a more standard three conductor version of those PC power cables work in the receivers two conductor slot?

Absolutely.
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post #20780 of 21943
1/23/13 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Absolutely.
Okay cool. I figured it might, but just wanted to ask to make sure.
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post #20781 of 21943
1/24/13 at 3:49am
Hi guys,
Looking for a solution to this problem...
Have comcast hd connection going through my 4311 via hdmi. Theres one channel i subscribe to broadcasts in 480i.
My comcast box is set to 1080i. The display sees the signal as 1080i --->1080i. On screen with video is letterboxed.
My display is a samsung which is set to 16:9. I have checked the settings on the 4311 for sat/cbl which is set to auto mode for video.
Only way I can get full screen video on screen is to change my display settings to full-wide or something for this particular channel ..which in turn messes up
the rest of the channels. Is there something I need to change in settings on the 4311 to get it 16:9 format full screen.

I tested this on a sony display with a set-top box without going through the 4311 and I get full screen video 480i--->1080i.

Any thoughts/help appreciated !
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post #20782 of 21943
1/24/13 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by netjumper View Post

Hi guys,
Looking for a solution to this problem...
Have comcast hd connection going through my 4311 via hdmi. Theres one channel i subscribe to broadcasts in 480i.
My comcast box is set to 1080i. The display sees the signal as 1080i --->1080i. On screen with video is letterboxed.
My display is a samsung which is set to 16:9. I have checked the settings on the 4311 for sat/cbl which is set to auto mode for video.
Only way I can get full screen video on screen is to change my display settings to full-wide or something for this particular channel ..which in turn messes up
the rest of the channels. Is there something I need to change in settings on the 4311 to get it 16:9 format full screen.

I tested this on a sony display with a set-top box without going through the 4311 and I get full screen video 480i--->1080i.

Any thoughts/help appreciated !

Try this approach, previously suggested by AustinJerry - it works!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

My settings are:

Video Select - Source
Video Mode - Auto
Video Convert - On
I/p Scaler - Analog & HDMI
Resolution (analog and HDMI) - Auto
Progressive Mode - Auto
Aspect - Full

Hr24 - Native

With these settings, tuned to the Fox network, my Signal Info shows 720p -> 1080p (RGB 4:4:4 -> RGB 4:4:4, 8bits -> 8bits), which indicates the Denon is working as it should. My Sony confirms it is receiving 1080p. All these setting the same on your system?
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post #20783 of 21943
1/24/13 at 7:28am
I try to avoid double scaling. I have sat and BD hdmi into AVR with AVR hdmi out to tv.

My tv native resolution is 720p.

My sat is set to native, AVR I/P scaler on and set to output 720p to the tv.

My BD is set to output 720p, AVR set to I/P scaler off, 720p to the tv.
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post #20784 of 21943
1/24/13 at 8:29am
I had an idea yesterday regarding playing hi-rez files on my Denon 4311 and thought I would run it by the members of this forum to see what you think and/or if anyone has tried this. I have all of my music (except single-layer SACD's) ripped to my NAS and connected via ethernet to my 4311. I also have a fair number of hi-rez files on that nas. The problem is that the Denon won't play hi-rez files over the ethernet input, but will play them from the front or rear usb input. For about $15 I can buy an ethernet to usb converter and was wondering if using such an adapter connected to the nas ethernet cable and then connected to the rear usb port on the Denon would allow me to play hi-res files from my music server/nas?
Any thoughts on this?
PS I know such adapters are normally used to connect the internet to computers without ethernet cards, but at least one of these adapters says that it can be used with a Wii's usb port to allow hardwiring the internet to this device.tongue.gif
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post #20785 of 21943
1/24/13 at 8:58am
I have had my 4311CI setup for about 7 months. Intermittently I have a problem where the receiver does not respond at all anymore and totally freezes up. It usually happens when I switch input source. Besides not responding to the remote, even the buttons on the receiver itself do not respond including the power one. Only way to reset this is to unplug the thing. Unfortunately I can not reproduce it consistently. Any thoughts on how to figure out what the cause of this is? Currently it has a sony blue ray and bravia plus a direct tv genie. Thanks for any suggestions.
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post #20786 of 21943
1/24/13 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batter View Post

I have had my 4311CI setup for about 7 months. Intermittently I have a problem where the receiver does not respond at all anymore and totally freezes up. It usually happens when I switch input source. Besides not responding to the remote, even the buttons on the receiver itself do not respond including the power one. Only way to reset this is to unplug the thing. Unfortunately I can not reproduce it consistently. Any thoughts on how to figure out what the cause of this is? Currently it has a sony blue ray and bravia plus a direct tv genie. Thanks for any suggestions.
Have you tried resetting the microprocessor? That's the only thing I can think of that might solve the problem. Make sure you have saved a copy of your configuration as you will lose all of your settings with the reset.
Good luck!smile.gif
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post #20787 of 21943
1/24/13 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by netjumper View Post

Hi guys,
Looking for a solution to this problem...
Have comcast hd connection going through my 4311 via hdmi. Theres one channel i subscribe to broadcasts in 480i.
My comcast box is set to 1080i. The display sees the signal as 1080i --->1080i. On screen with video is letterboxed.
My display is a samsung which is set to 16:9. I have checked the settings on the 4311 for sat/cbl which is set to auto mode for video.
Only way I can get full screen video on screen is to change my display settings to full-wide or something for this particular channel ..which in turn messes up
the rest of the channels. Is there something I need to change in settings on the 4311 to get it 16:9 format full screen.

I tested this on a sony display with a set-top box without going through the 4311 and I get full screen video 480i--->1080i.

Any thoughts/help appreciated !

I believe you mean the output is "pillarboxed", not letterboxed, i.e. there are black bars on either side? Letterboxed means horizontal stretch with black bars on top and bottom.

But anyway, setting aside that pedantic note...

The issue is that the signal is getting to the receiver already converted to 1080i. Your comcast box is doing the scaling before the signal reaches the receiver, which is why your TV does not lock onto wide mode like it probably would with a standard SD signal. Neither the receiver nor the TV can "know" that the source is actually 4:3 natively, all they are seeing is a regular 16:9 HD signal.

The receiver can do a horizontal stretch but only if the input signal is SD coming in.

So you have two choices:

1) there has to be a setting in the Comcast box on how to handle SD signals, so you can set the box to stretch the 480i channel horizontally as it scales to 1080i.

2) you can set the Comcast box to "native" output, so the receiver sees the 480i signal and can apply its own horizontal stretch as it scales everything coming in to 1080p.
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post #20788 of 21943
1/24/13 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post

Have you tried resetting the microprocessor? That's the only thing I can think of that might solve the problem. Make sure you have saved a copy of your configuration as you will lose all of your settings with the reset.
Good luck!smile.gif

I will give that a shot (Mmm, looks like I will have to redo the audyssey and other setup; keep getting a load not complete after trying to upload my saved configuration, although some configuration is restored ).
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post #20789 of 21943
1/24/13 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post

I had an idea yesterday regarding playing hi-rez files on my Denon 4311 and thought I would run it by the members of this forum to see what you think and/or if anyone has tried this. I have all of my music (except single-layer SACD's) ripped to my NAS and connected via ethernet to my 4311. I also have a fair number of hi-rez files on that nas. The problem is that the Denon won't play hi-rez files over the ethernet input, but will play them from the front or rear usb input. For about $15 I can buy an ethernet to usb converter and was wondering if using such an adapter connected to the nas ethernet cable and then connected to the rear usb port on the Denon would allow me to play hi-res files from my music server/nas?
Any thoughts on this?
PS I know such adapters are normally used to connect the internet to computers without ethernet cards, but at least one of these adapters says that it can be used with a Wii's usb port to allow hardwiring the internet to this device.tongue.gif

That won't work. The USB inputs expect mass storage devices, that is, FAT-formatted hard disks (regardless of whether they're magnetic or solid state drives). A Ethernet to USB adapter cannot emulate a hard disk to the AVR.
It won't work as a second network port for AVR, neither. Therefor, the Denon would need an operating system capable of loading and installing a compatible driver software for the respective adapter. Even if that worked, I guess, the limitations for playing Hi-Rez files over network would still apply.
I don't know if network speed is limiting the ability to play those hirez files. But I guess none of these audio files has a sampling rate that exceeds 1Mbit/s. Even considering protocol overhead and so on, the slowest imaginable ethernet port at 10Mbit/s would still suffice. So, even a Gbit interface would probably have no relevant impact. (Does anyone know the ethernet specs of the AVR? The manual recommends the use of 100Mbit routers and Cat5-cables, so I guess it's a 100Mbit/s port).
Finally, there is that basic difference between streaming data off a server (a NAS works as a server) to the AVR (client) on one hand and loading data (files) off a storage device by the AVR itself, on the other hand. This difference ultimately leads to differing specifications, limitations and capabilities (that were incorporated into the AVR when it was designed, at least).
The Wii's operating system is surely more accessible for engineers to develop accessories. Maybe nintendo is even encouraging or actively supporting such development. So that is unfortunately not applicable, here.
(P.S. You don't happen to own one of those NAS systems that can be connected directly via USB to work as a simple external hard disk? There are limitations in place anyway, then. USB access to the volume has to be exclusive so that volume cannot be accessed via network simultaneously by any other client.)
Edited by eyespy39 - 1/24/13 at 1:22pm
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post #20790 of 21943
1/24/13 at 6:36pm
little trick I learned. Get a 220v instead of 120v fan, or a pair of them and they run slower and very quiet, but still draw out the heat.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]