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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 700

post #20971 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:44am
Quick question here. I cant read all 700 pages of this thread, so If I ask a question thats already been asked, my apologies. Im considering the Marantz AV7701 prepro or the Denon. Difference is, ones a prepro and ones an AV receiver. My question is this: the whole point of buying a prepro is the assumption that youre getting a better quality processor, better DAC etc since the casing doesnt have to house the amps. Thats the whole point of an AV receiver, its cost effective for folks who cant afford seperates. As a result of everything being crammed into one box, quality suffers. Am I correct? If thats the case, why would I want to buy the Denon sinces its an AV receiver and my whole objective is to upgrade to seperates? Second question, the Denon has a preamp mode. If I use it with an outboard amp, does it disengage the onboard amps? Or can it be in preamp mode to run my HT while at the same time using the onbaord amps to power zones 2 and 3? Thirdly, the reason I want the Denon is the XT32. Everyone seems to think its the next best thing since sliced bread. So, with all that said, without a biased opinion, do yall think the Denon 4413ci can match up to the Marantz 7701? XT32 helps the Denons case, but what about the processors? How do they compare? The main thing that will persuade me to get the Denon is if the zones 2 and 3 can be power by onboard amps while using the preamp mode of the receiver. Is that a mode that you can turn on and off easily? Thanx yall!!
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post #20972 of 21942
2/12/13 at 4:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by holyindian View Post

Out of these two above, which are the ones that are working in effect right now? I am confused.
Parameter check shows the original Autosetup settings. Manual shows the actual settings in effect.

Your settings look fine. Of course you can lower the crossovers right back to the original crossovers if it was not your intent to have them raised but resetting large to Small is always recommended, and 80 is usually a good setting for any originally Large speaker.
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post #20973 of 21942
2/12/13 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffypuck View Post

Quick question here. I cant read all 700 pages of this thread, so If I ask a question thats already been asked, my apologies. Im considering the Marantz AV7701 prepro or the Denon...
Simply put, the 7701 will yield lesser SQ than the 4311, assuming one is going to listen with Audyssey engaged, despite the 4311 box having amps inside. XT32 > XT is a known significant factor for improving SQ. The SQ differences from the prepro design may or may not be heard and are endlessly debated but would only really matter if you are listening in something like Direct mode and/or using Ext In, which excludes Audyssey.

The postings on this thread indicate that in Preamp Mode the amps are disengaged- they get absolutely no signal, but are not actually physically switched off from the power supply so are "idling". My listening tests revealed very little difference using Preamp Mode vs Normal mode. I'm not really familiar with Z2/3 internal amp functionality but if PM affects it, simply don't bother with PM is certainly nothing worth giving up use of internal amps for.

My advice-if you gotta have separates get a 8801, as it has XT32. But IMO rather than spending more on separates, usually that $ is better spent elsewhere in the system, like better speakers, a second sub, a measurement system like OmniMic, room treatments or Audyssey Pro. smile.gif
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post #20974 of 21942
2/12/13 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Simply put, the 7701 will yield lesser SQ than the 4311, assuming one is going to listen with Audyssey engaged, despite the 4311 box having amps inside. XT32 > XT is a known significant factor for improving SQ. The SQ differences from the prepro design may or may not be heard and are endlessly debated but would only really matter if you are listening in something like Direct mode and/or using Ext In, which excludes Audyssey.

The postings on this thread indicate that in Preamp Mode the amps are disengaged- they get absolutely no signal, but are not actually physically switched off from the power supply so are "idling". My listening tests revealed very little difference using Preamp Mode vs Normal mode. I'm not really familiar with Z2/3 internal amp functionality but if PM affects it, simply don't bother with PM is certainly nothing worth giving up use of internal amps for.

My advice-if you gotta have separates get a 8801, as it has XT32. But IMO rather than spending more on separates, usually that $ is better spent elsewhere in the system, like better speakers, a second sub, a measurement system like OmniMic, room treatments or Audyssey Pro. smile.gif

Very true and since I couldn't afford the 8801 I got the 4520 which offers almost all the features and performance of the 8801.
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post #20975 of 21942
2/12/13 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Nope, no need for a separate cable-just CAT5 and HDMI from player to AVR.

If I have both the HDMI and DL3 hooked up from the DVD player to the AVR, how do I know which cable the audio is coming from? It looks like it is the DL3 because the light on the player is lit up but I can't be certain. Just curious.
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post #20976 of 21942
2/12/13 at 9:45am
^The DenonLink light lights up on the AVR FPD.
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post #20977 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:10pm
Thanks for your feedback SoundofMind. If theres no audible difference in the preamp mode from normal, whats the point of even having that mode?? Cant I just run all my pre outs to the amp and then let the 4311's amps run my other zones?
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post #20978 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffypuck View Post

Quick question here. I cant read all 700 pages of this thread, so If I ask a question thats already been asked, my apologies. Im considering the Marantz AV7701 prepro or the Denon. Difference is, ones a prepro and ones an AV receiver. My question is this: the whole point of buying a prepro is the assumption that youre getting a better quality processor, better DAC etc since the casing doesnt have to house the amps. Thats the whole point of an AV receiver, its cost effective for folks who cant afford seperates. As a result of everything being crammed into one box, quality suffers. Am I correct? If thats the case, why would I want to buy the Denon sinces its an AV receiver and my whole objective is to upgrade to seperates? Second question, the Denon has a preamp mode. If I use it with an outboard amp, does it disengage the onboard amps? Or can it be in preamp mode to run my HT while at the same time using the onbaord amps to power zones 2 and 3? Thirdly, the reason I want the Denon is the XT32. Everyone seems to think its the next best thing since sliced bread. So, with all that said, without a biased opinion, do yall think the Denon 4413ci can match up to the Marantz 7701? XT32 helps the Denons case, but what about the processors? How do they compare? The main thing that will persuade me to get the Denon is if the zones 2 and 3 can be power by onboard amps while using the preamp mode of the receiver. Is that a mode that you can turn on and off easily? Thanx yall!!

When you write 4413ci I assume you mean either the 4311 or the 4520. Both allow the inputs to the amps to be turned off. The 4520 has some improved processing and more features but is very similar to the 4311. The 4311 is hard to find as it's discontinued.
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post #20979 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:27pm
It's mostly a marketing gimmick, although thee may be some very slight SQ improvement due to reduced interference or something. When in preamp mode you CAN configure the 4311 to have 4 amps assigned to zones 2 and 3.
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post #20980 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:30pm
Power used in pre-amp mode is much less than without it. This also means that the unit will have to dissipate less heat.
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post #20981 of 21942
2/12/13 at 12:45pm
^^^Daffy, I'm not saying there's for sure absolutely no audible difference at all. Very few people have reported on it and what I heard with level-controlled A/B was pretty subtle improvements- I'm not sure I could've gotten it right 100% if blinded, and it was only evident with very hi qual recordings through very good speakers in Stereo.

So it is unclear to me if PM-related improved SQ is more marketing fiction than practical fact.

BUT in any case the good news for you is you can do exactly what you were hoping- power both the Z2 and Z3 in PM:
See the OM p95, downloadable at
http://usa.denon.com/us/downloads/pages/instructionmanual.aspx

Edit:Too slow typing and researching!
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post #20982 of 21942
2/13/13 at 1:17am
I'm looking at hooking a 1440p monitor/computer up to my 4311CI receiver. I will have a HDMI 1.4 graphics card on one end, then use a HDMI to display port cable for the 1440p monitor.

Will this work, or will I get 1080p?
Edited by Tyrindor - 2/13/13 at 1:25am
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post #20983 of 21942
2/13/13 at 1:51am
AFAIK, the 2010 models (to incude the 4311CI) will only pass standard TV resolution up to 1080p.
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post #20984 of 21942
2/13/13 at 2:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, the 2010 models (to incude the 4311CI) will only pass standard TV resolution up to 1080p.

Thats' a huge bummer... tempted to sell the 4311CI and get the 3313CI... but it's a worse unit in every other aspect. frown.gif
Edited by Tyrindor - 2/13/13 at 2:54am
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post #20985 of 21942
2/13/13 at 3:06am
Regardless of the model used, they will generally only pass standard "TV" resolution so it's unlikely to work with the 3313CI as well, rather only getting 1080p.
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post #20986 of 21942
2/13/13 at 3:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Regardless of the model used, they will generally only pass standard "TV" resolution so it's unlikely to work with the 3313CI as well, rather only getting 1080p.

Well the main problem is I have issues bypassing the receiver when using the computer. I feel like there is a simple solution somewhere. If I use displayport to connect my monitor to the computer, then use HDMI out from the graphics card to the receiver (for sound only), I get no sound unless I turn my TV on too. This is because HDMI apparently won't send a audio signal without a video signal? If I use optical, then I can't enable 7.1 or get lossless codecs on my computer.

So basically, I want to use my 4311CI & 7.1 on my computer with a 1440p monitor.. and it seems I have to either use optical/5.1/lossy codecs, downgrade to a 1080p monitor, or keep my TV on even when it's not in use so HDMI passes the audio signal.
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post #20987 of 21942
2/13/13 at 4:16am
It's unlikely you would notice any real difference between the higher bitrate lossy DD/DTS on BDs over optical vs. lossless over HDMI and the AVR will simulate 7.1 from a 5.1 signal using DD PLIIx.
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post #20988 of 21942
2/13/13 at 4:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's unlikely you would notice any real difference between the higher bitrate lossy DD/DTS on BDs over optical vs. lossless over HDMI and the AVR will simulate 7.1 from a 5.1 signal using DD PLIIx.

Ahh, but as unlikely as it is I can tell the difference between DD and lossless especially when using headphones.
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post #20989 of 21942
2/13/13 at 4:51am
I think I just fixed my problem by upgraded the drivers on my video card. I also updated the firmware on the receiver, so who knows. I'm definitely getting an audio signal now, even when there is no video signal. So I should be able to hook up the 1440p monitor, and just bypass the receiver for video. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's unlikely you would notice any real difference between the higher bitrate lossy DD/DTS on BDs over optical vs. lossless over HDMI and the AVR will simulate 7.1 from a 5.1 signal using DD PLIIx.

I would disagree, I can easily tell the difference on my setup.. i've even done blind tests with friends to make sure it's not a placebo effect. I can see where you are coming from though, on my friend's setup I could not tell the difference, and he put about $500-$750 into his audio equipment. I've put in about 5 times that, so there's definitely a point where you will start hearing a difference. I cannot hear the difference if i'm at -20 or so, but at reference, it's definitely noticeable.
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post #20990 of 21942
2/13/13 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post

I would disagree, I can easily tell the difference on my setup.. i've even done blind tests with friends to make sure it's not a placebo effect. I can see where you are coming from though, on my friend's setup I could not tell the difference, and he put about $500-$750 into his audio equipment. I've put in about 5 times that, so there's definitely a point where you will start hearing a difference. I cannot hear the difference if i'm at -20 or so, but at reference, it's definitely noticeable.

I agree. Back when i had a HTIB(cringe), i couldn't tell a difference. Now, with much higher quality equipment, there's a noticeable difference.
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post #20991 of 21942
2/13/13 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Ahh, but as unlikely as it is I can tell the difference between DD and lossless especially when using headphones.
I'm wondering how you do level-matched comparisons with headphones?
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post #20992 of 21942
2/13/13 at 12:03pm
Just upgraded my iPhone 4S to version 6.1 and now airplay stutters constantly. I did not have this problem with iOS 5.1.1. Is anyone else having this problem? I contemplated upgrading to 6.1.1 but heard that's only to fix 3G.
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post #20993 of 21942
2/13/13 at 1:06pm
Thanx for all the info guys. It seems the 4311 is the way to go and kill to birds with one stone.
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post #20994 of 21942
2/14/13 at 2:45pm
Well, it's dead. Would not power on the other morning. No combination of pulling the plug for any length of time or holding buttons causes anything to happen. Hopefully it's as simple as a power supply board. Hurray for the 3-year warranty.

Long story short, I have an Onkyo HT-SR800 that came in one of those "home theater in a box" with speakers, wire, etc for like $400. Bought it when we were traveling a few years ago and never took the time to get rid of it after getting the 4311ci. Since the progression to my current setup with Mythos 10/GemXL all happened slowly after getting the Denon, I never really got that one time "WOW!, this is spectacular compared to the old setup" moment. Putting the old cheap Onkyo in place certainly gave me the opposite effect, however.

I miss the Denon and it hasn't even left the house yet.
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post #20995 of 21942
2/14/13 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Just upgraded my iPhone 4S to version 6.1 and now airplay stutters constantly. I did not have this problem with iOS 5.1.1. Is anyone else having this problem? I contemplated upgrading to 6.1.1 but heard that's only to fix 3G.
Ill try it tonight when I get home as I have upgraded both my iPad 3 and iPhone 4S to 6.1 and jailbroke. So far I havent had any issues streaming AirPlay to the AirPort Express in my bedroom setup, but Ill try my Denons probably extensively for the next four days as its a long weekend for me and post back.
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post #20996 of 21942
2/14/13 at 8:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ben_r_ View Post

Ill try it tonight when I get home as I have upgraded both my iPad 3 and iPhone 4S to 6.1 and jailbroke. So far I havent had any issues streaming AirPlay to the AirPort Express in my bedroom setup, but Ill try my Denons probably extensively for the next four days as its a long weekend for me and post back.
Try different locations too. I noticed when my phone was located closer to the 4311, the stuttering stopped. As soon as I got about 10 feet away and put a wall between me and the AVR, the stuttering would start again. With 5.1.1, I was able to stream from my bedroom 2 floors away without problems. Now it seems like I can't even leave the same room as the AVR.
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post #20997 of 21942
2/14/13 at 8:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Try different locations too. I noticed when my phone was located closer to the 4311, the stuttering stopped. As soon as I got about 10 feet away and put a wall between me and the AVR, the stuttering would start again. With 5.1.1, I was able to stream from my bedroom 2 floors away without problems. Now it seems like I can't even leave the same room as the AVR.

Your phone isn't communicating with your receiver directly. It needs a consistent WiFi connection to your access point, not the AVR.
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post #20998 of 21942
2/15/13 at 5:22am
^ Correct, so it's a question of where the WiFi access point is located in relation to the phone since the phone is the thing that's moving around.
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post #20999 of 21942
2/15/13 at 6:18am
^ yep, what they said. I'll play around today with it.
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post #21000 of 21942
2/15/13 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

Your phone isn't communicating with your receiver directly. It needs a consistent WiFi connection to your access point, not the AVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

^ Correct, so it's a question of where the WiFi access point is located in relation to the phone since the phone is the thing that's moving around.
Yes, I knew that. Mind fart. smile.gif My AP is about 3 feet from the 4311 in another section of my basement, and the 4311 is wired directly into the same AP.

Regardless of AP or AVR placement, I never had these issues with 5.1.1. I'm also now having issues with 6.1 and my car. I think I'll be downgrading this weekend. It appears Apple changed the Music app and it's not playing nicely with my stuff.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]