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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 702

post #21031 of 21917
2/17/13 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

On some broadcasts, DSX does not sound good, so I turn it off, but it is usually on.

For music listening, I never use DSX or Neo:x, only PLII Music or Stereo 2.1.
+1, except that I am opposite and usually leave DSX off. I found DSX to be distracting on "most" material, while adding an enhancement on "some" material.

 

Yes, I can certainly understand how DSX can be distracting.  A while back, I swapped out several speaker pairs so that my entire 11.1 system is from the same manufacturer, and the same line within the manufacturer's line, in an effort to obtain timbre-matching across all speakers.  Once I did that, I found the DSX effect to be considerably less distracting (at least on well-engineered content).

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post #21032 of 21917
2/17/13 at 10:28am
I ocassionally find it distracting on analog TV channels, but DSX usually sounds good with 5.1 stuff. My speakers are old but all from the same line with the same tweeter. I have DirectTV. So you guys don't use your surround back speakers? Isn't the only way to utilize them PLIIX C?
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post #21033 of 21917
2/17/13 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevolumnus View Post

I ocassionally find it distracting on analog TV channels, but DSX usually sounds good with 5.1 stuff. My speakers are old but all from the same line with the same tweeter. I have DirectTV. So you guys don't use your surround back speakers? Isn't the only way to utilize them PLIIX C?

 

My surround backs are usually on using PLIIx Cinema for video sources.  On a Denon 4520, the rear surrounds cannot be turned off for music sources, unfortunately, because I would prefer to run PLII Music, rather than PLIIx Music.

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post #21034 of 21917
2/17/13 at 10:58am
I could have gotten a 4520 for about $650 more than my 4311. I mulled it over pretty hard. My biggest concern was 4K passthru. Are you loving your 4520?
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post #21035 of 21917
2/17/13 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

My surround backs are usually on using PLIIx Cinema for video sources.  On a Denon 4520, the rear surrounds cannot be turned off for music sources, unfortunately, because I would prefer to run PLII Music, rather than PLIIx Music.
Jerry, could you save that as QuickSelect 1, then turn them off and save as QS2?
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post #21036 of 21917
2/17/13 at 11:15am
I have 7.2 DSX wides, properly placed, all timbre-matched and Pro calibrated. I really like DSX wides for film. It expands the front sound stage, adding depth and width and enhances the surround bubble.

For music, I listen to well-recorded content in native format al,ost exclusively and I am a big MC music fan.

I've found occasional music that seems to benefit from PLII but precious little that benefits from DSX wides. To the contrary, wides tend to mess up the front soundstage for music IMO.
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post #21037 of 21917
2/17/13 at 11:31am
I have the 4311 running 9.2 surround. I'm trying to get the "Amp Assign" configured properly. I have my front 3 speakers (LCR) powered with an external power amp. The Left & Right Surround; Surround Back; and Wide are being powered by the onboard amps. How should I configure the Amp assign (Assign Mode and Assign Sp.)? Any other settings I should be configuring for this setup?

Thanks in advance
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post #21038 of 21917
2/17/13 at 1:30pm
^That's interesting, Jerry.

I believe thought that the level trim for the individual channels is remembered in QS. So what I meant was, couldn't you just trim them down -12dB to have a 1 button-push work-around?
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post #21039 of 21917
2/17/13 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post

I have the 4311 running 9.2 surround. I'm trying to get the "Amp Assign" configured properly. I have my front 3 speakers (LCR) powered with an external power amp. The Left & Right Surround; Surround Back; and Wide are being powered by the onboard amps. How should I configure the Amp assign (Assign Mode and Assign Sp.)? Any other settings I should be configuring for this setup?Thanks in advance
I'd follow OM
First follow the Speaker wiring guide for 11 ch is on p61
Then p63, 64:
Step 4 select 11 ch
Then step 6 select Front not height, then steps 7 and 8

edit:greg-this works and if you've done this you need not change anything, it works fine. But as batpig pointed out a few posts down, since you are not actually running 11 chan all you really have to do is set amp assign = Normal and you're good to go
see p56
Edited by SoundofMind - 2/21/13 at 4:05am
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post #21040 of 21917
2/18/13 at 8:53am
Is it known what the highest clean subwoofer output voltage is in 4311?

I apologize if this was asked before, I could not find it.

thank you
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post #21041 of 21917
2/18/13 at 9:10am
^Hi. Why would you expect distorted output from the sub line-level RCA out at any setting?
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post #21042 of 21917
2/18/13 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Hi. Why would you expect distorted output from the sub line-level RCA out at any setting?

From what I've read it should be possible to clip output signal of any AVR.
It looks like speaker channels preamp output in Denons 43xx is healthy up to 4Vrms. I could not find any info for the sub channel though.

I need this for setting up gain structure. Finding the level when output signal begins to distort is supposed to be the first step.
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post #21043 of 21917
2/18/13 at 9:46am
Not sure I can be of any help. I know of no clipping on the output. I can direct you to this report on the 4310 which you may already be aware of: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/denon-avr-4310ci/avr-4310ci-measurements-and-analysis

There has been some discussion of sub ch trim in relation to high trims possibly overdriving some sub amps. But to prevent this, one can easily use the sub level measurement stage during Autosetup to trim the sub ch down close to 0, or in your case as much as -12dB so you should be able to keep it where you need to.
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post #21044 of 21917
2/18/13 at 12:16pm
Noticed there is a "Standard" and "Enhanced" setting for HDMI pass-through, where it looks like Standard is 16-235 and Enhanced is 0-255. What is recommended for use here? I have this connected to a Sony HW50.
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post #21045 of 21917
2/18/13 at 2:54pm
Hi Guys

I recently got a 4311 and I can't believe the difference it has made in my setup. My speakers seem to have come to life like I haven't heard from them before. One question for the forum. I have noticed when I power down there is a series of audible clicks. Is that normal?

Thanks
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post #21046 of 21917
2/18/13 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Hi Guys

I recently got a 4311 and I can't believe the difference it has made in my setup. My speakers seem to have come to life like I haven't heard from them before. One question for the forum. I have noticed when I power down there is a series of audible clicks. Is that normal?

Thanks
What did you upgrade from?

And yes all the quick clicks you hear when turning on and shutting off are normal.
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post #21047 of 21917
2/18/13 at 5:26pm
Good to hear about the clicks being normal. I am almost embarrassed to say that I upgraded from a Denon avr890 to the 4311. Big big difference.
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post #21048 of 21917
2/18/13 at 8:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacklebary View Post

Good to hear about the clicks being normal. I am almost embarrassed to say that I upgraded from a Denon avr890 to the 4311. Big big difference.
Ha, oh yea I bet! Well good for you! For waiting that long you deserved it!
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post #21049 of 21917
2/19/13 at 12:33pm
Hello everyone, I've had a 4311 for a year and absolutely love it. I'm running it in a 11.2 home theatre setup and everything works great. My main setup is a PS-3 feeding the 4311 and the 4311 going to an EPSON 5010. I've recently decided to setup an exercise room next to the home theatre and plan on using the Monitor 2 output. When I first tested it, I was sure that both video and sound was passed to the TV (Samsung LED TV) from M-2. However, now that I have the room setup and the reconnected, I'm not getting any sound passed to the TV, only video. I have the montor setting set to DUAL. Should I be getting audio out the HDMI monitor 2 port? I've tried turning everything off and turning things back on in different order thinking its a handshake issue, but to no avail. Any thoughts?
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post #21050 of 21917
2/19/13 at 12:53pm
I decided to trade in my Marantz AV 7005 for a Denon AVR-4311CI. I plan to use it in preamp mode. I have a 5.1 setup. Will there be an audible improvement with Audyssey XT32 with a 5.1 setup? Would I gain any benefits with rear surrounds and front wides/heights? Which speakers would provide the most sound improvements?
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post #21051 of 21917
2/19/13 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdwizard1 View Post

Hello everyone, I've had a 4311 for a year and absolutely love it. I'm running it in a 11.2 home theatre setup and everything works great. My main setup is a PS-3 feeding the 4311 and the 4311 going to an EPSON 5010. I've recently decided to setup an exercise room next to the home theatre and plan on using the Monitor 2 output. When I first tested it, I was sure that both video and sound was passed to the TV (Samsung LED TV) from M-2. However, now that I have the room setup and the reconnected, I'm not getting any sound passed to the TV, only video. I have the montor setting set to DUAL. Should I be getting audio out the HDMI monitor 2 port? I've tried turning everything off and turning things back on in different order thinking its a handshake issue, but to no avail. Any thoughts?

If you set the output to just HDMI 2, does the sound downmix and go to the tv?
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post #21052 of 21917
2/19/13 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Noticed there is a "Standard" and "Enhanced" setting for HDMI pass-through, where it looks like Standard is 16-235 and Enhanced is 0-255. What is recommended for use here? I have this connected to a Sony HW50.

Interesting - since I just completed an Audyssey calibration and was surfing through the other set up options and came across the Standard vs. Enhanced option. I had been using the Standard option - but decided to implement "Enhanced" to see if it made any difference. While I don't have any measuring equipment - the image does seem improved - this may be a placebo effect - but I don't think you can do any damage by experimenting with the settings and see which option looks better. As usual the Owners Manual offers little insight:(page 98)
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post #21053 of 21917
2/19/13 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregC4711 View Post

I decided to trade in my Marantz AV 7005 for a Denon AVR-4311CI. I plan to use it in preamp mode. I have a 5.1 setup. Will there be an audible improvement with Audyssey XT32 with a 5.1 setup?
Yes

Would I gain any benefits with rear surrounds and front wides/heights?
Probably

Which speakers would provide the most sound improvements?
Audyssey recommends wides, then heights, then surr rears in order of what they feel is importance to overall enhancement of the surround experience.

For wides It is the angle of the speaker to the MLP. For heights it is the angle and elevation of the speaker to the MLP. For rear surr, you should prob have at least 5' of space behind MLP or don't bother.

Timbre-matched speakers work best.

DSX111.gif 13k .gif file
Edited by SoundofMind - 2/19/13 at 4:29pm
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post #21054 of 21917
2/19/13 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Audyssey recommends wides, then heights, then surr rears in order of what they feel is importance to overall enhancement of the surround experience.

For wides It is the angle of the speaker to the MLP. For heights wides It is the angle and elevation of the speaker to the MLP. For rear surr, you should prob have at least 5' of space behind MLP or don't bother.

Timbre-matched speakers work best.

DSX111.gif 13k .gif file

Thanks for the feedback. I am currently using Emerald Physics 2.7 speakers with a modified Behringer crossover for my fronts, Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Monitors for my center and surrounds, and an ACI Titan sub. I have used matching speakers for HT and I agree matched timber works best for HT duty. In my case the Emerald Physics are amazing for 2 channel and I use a preamp with HT pass through to optimize my 2 channel listening. I am willing to not have the timber matching since 2 channel is my priority. I appreciate you telling me the order of priority if I am going to get more HT speakers.
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post #21055 of 21917
2/19/13 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by blipszyc View Post

Noticed there is a "Standard" and "Enhanced" setting for HDMI pass-through, where it looks like Standard is 16-235 and Enhanced is 0-255. What is recommended for use here? I have this connected to a Sony HW50.

Interesting - since I just completed an Audyssey calibration and was surfing through the other set up options and came across the Standard vs. Enhanced option. I had been using the Standard option - but decided to implement "Enhanced" to see if it made any difference. While I don't have any measuring equipment - the image does seem improved - this may be a placebo effect - but I don't think you can do any damage by experimenting with the settings and see which option looks better. As usual the Owners Manual offers little insight:(page 98)

 

The on-screen instructions state that "Enhanced" uses RGB video range 0-255, and avoids "black wash-out".  "Normal" uses the range 16-235.  I have tried both settings and see no difference on my display (an LED flat panel).  

 

On the 4520, this option no longer is offered.  If it is an important option, you would think it would have been carried over.

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post #21056 of 21917
2/19/13 at 5:09pm
Ran audyssey today after upgrading my center channel.
Posting the results below for you to see if they look ok. Just so that you know that the room is not at all an ideal setup for any kind of HT environment.. however hoping that Audyssey might tame the environment a bit.
Looking at the charts below do you think anything needs to be done that can be done better.









After running the audyssey.. i have manually set the speakers and crossover to..

Front - Small - 80Hz (Definitive Technology Mythos ST)
Center - Small - 90Hz (Definitive Technology CS-8080HD)
Surround - Small - 120Hz (Definitive Technology GemXL's)
Surround Back - Small - 120Hz (Definitive Technology ProMonitor 1000).
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post #21057 of 21917
2/19/13 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Audyssey recommends wides, then heights, then surr rears in order of what they feel is importance to overall enhancement of the surround experience.

For wides It is the angle of the speaker to the MLP. For heights it is the angle and elevation of the speaker to the MLP. For rear surr, you should prob have at least 5' of space behind MLP or don't bother.

Timbre-matched speakers work best.

DSX111.gif 13k .gif file

I'll have to disagree with with your advice for the rear speakers. I'm only ~3' from my rear speakers and there's a noticeable improvement in having them vs. not having them. Adding them was no revelation, but when I removed them to give to my brother I noticed them missing immediately when watching movies. Moreso with 7.1 encoded soundtracks.
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post #21058 of 21917
2/19/13 at 7:20pm
I tried the monitor 2 only - it didn't change anything. However, when I was trying some other troubleshooting, I turned off the receiver but had left the TV on. All of sudden I had sound..... It appears that I only get video when the receiver is on, but when I turn it off it goes into a pass thru mode and I get both video and audio. I tried the HDMI audio out setting between AMP and TV, it didn't seem to impact the results. So at this point I have it working, but I'm not exactly sure why it operates this way. Thanks for the input.....
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post #21059 of 21917
2/19/13 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farkem View Post

If you set the output to just HDMI 2, does the sound downmix and go to the tv?

Sorry about the previous post, I forgot to quote the original response. Thanks for feed back
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post #21060 of 21917
2/20/13 at 4:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

I'll have to disagree with with your advice for the rear speakers. I'm only ~3' from my rear speakers and there's a noticeable improvement in having them vs. not having them. Adding them was no revelation, but when I removed them to give to my brother I noticed them missing immediately when watching movies. Moreso with 7.1 encoded soundtracks.
Thanks for adding your experience to the discussion, as I was just repeating standard general advice. I imagine that the value of rear surr varies considerably and depends on many factors.

I too have only 3 feet to the back wall from MLP and the wiring hassle and expense of adding rear surr just hasn't seemed like a worthwhile endeavor to me in my fam room/HT.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]