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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 735

post #22021 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Hate to burst the bubble but you won't be able to do this. The HR-34 doesn't have an optical connection.

But the HR-34 has coax digital and the 4311 also has coax assignable to the relevant HDMI input. Worth a try! smile.gif
post #22022 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Hate to burst the bubble but you won't be able to do this. The HR-34 doesn't have an optical connection.

Hi jconjason, but it should have digital coaxial out (different connection but same).
post #22023 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Hate to burst the bubble but you won't be able to do this. The HR-34 doesn't have an optical connection.

Yeah, I seem to remember that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

And here's another WOW for Dad.

Click here on DirecTV homepage

Scroll down to "Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround Sound capable^^"

And then there is a footnote: "^^On select programming. Requires additional equipment, sold separately."

Arrrgh, for those cable companies!!!!!!!!!!! mad.gifeek.gif

I refuse to believe that this "Latest and Greatest" DVR doesn't do DD 5.1 without "buying" additional equipment. Remember, it has the option in the menu to turn DD on or off. This $ucks. I'm running out of options here.

Anybody out there have a similar setup (HR34 and Denon XX11or similar) that has working 5.1?

Thanks for all the help from you guys on the best forum out there.
post #22024 of 23169
anyone using an htpc with 3d with denon?
i cant get it to work with htpc...fios works but pc fails BD & 3D Advisor...
post #22025 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post

Yeah, I seem to remember that.
I refuse to believe that this "Latest and Greatest" DVR doesn't do DD 5.1 without "buying" additional equipment. Remember, it has the option in the menu to turn DD on or off. This $ucks. I'm running out of options here.

Anybody out there have a similar setup (HR34 and Denon XX11or similar) that has working 5.1?

Thanks for all the help from you guys on the best forum out there.

Yes, i do. Panasonic VT60,denon 4311, DirecTV hr-34. I get 5.1 fine. Sometimes though, with my harmony remote it turns the tv on last, and i only get 2.0, if i turn everything off and power the dtv first, then TV, then denon, it works properly.
post #22026 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post



Yes, i do. Panasonic VT60,denon 4311, DirecTV hr-34. I get 5.1 fine. Sometimes though, with my harmony remote it turns the tv on last, and i only get 2.0, if i turn everything off and power the dtv first, then TV, then denon, it works properly.

OK, now we're getting somewhere...maybe. Is your HR34 connected directly into your 4311 via HDMI? And then HDMI out from 4311 to Panny TV I assume?

I have a slightly more complicated setup. I have my HR34 out to a HDMI splitter and then from the spltter into the 4311. The Sony LCD (forgot the model#) comes off the splitter also. Before you all go crazy and say it's gotta be the splitter, I connected the HR34 directly to the 4311 (tried multiple HDMI inputs) and it made no difference. Still got only 2 channel. It sounds like a handshake issue. A sequence problem is usually a handshake issue.

When I get home (Monday afternoon) I will try different "on" sequences and see if that makes a difference. I may ask you, jconjason, what some of your 4311 settings are, if you don't mind. I can't remember what all the options are from this hotel room.

Thanks to all for trying to help me with this. Without you I would have thrown in the towel by now.

Happy Father's Day AVDs! (Audio Video Dads)

PS, anybody get any new cool AV toys for FD?
post #22027 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post



Yes, i do. Panasonic VT60,denon 4311, DirecTV hr-34. I get 5.1 fine. Sometimes though, with my harmony remote it turns the tv on last, and i only get 2.0, if i turn everything off and power the dtv first, then TV, then denon, it works properly.

I think you can program the Harmony to turn components on in the sequence you want. It may depend on the model though. I think my "Harmony One" has that feature. Just a thought.
post #22028 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post

I think you can program the Harmony to turn components on in the sequence you want. It may depend on the model though. I think my "Harmony One" has that feature. Just a thought.

Yes,i have the One and can change the sequence just haven't gotten around to it.

Connection...
Hr-34 to Denon, Denon to tv. Both hdmi. Does your tv have an ARC input? If so, i assume that's what you're using? Try one of the others and see. Also, have you tried a different HDMI cord?

Do you have your denon set to HDMI Auduo Out to Amp or TV? It should be amp. Also what do you have assigned to the input your using on the denon? Make sure its HDMI and not coax, optical or anything else. Just a few settings suggestions to check. If you have specific settings you'd like to know, just ask. There's so many. If all else fails, do a microprocessor reset and rerun the set ups.

I honestly don't think this is an issue with the HR-34. Sounds like a missed setting, bad HDMI, ETC...
post #22029 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post


OK, now we're getting somewhere...maybe. Is your HR34 connected directly into your 4311 via HDMI? And then HDMI out from 4311 to Panny TV I assume?

I have a slightly more complicated setup. I have my HR34 out to a HDMI splitter and then from the spltter into the 4311. The Sony LCD (forgot the model#) comes off the splitter also. Before you all go crazy and say it's gotta be the splitter, I connected the HR34 directly to the 4311 (tried multiple HDMI inputs) and it made no difference. Still got only 2 channel. It sounds like a handshake issue. A sequence problem is usually a handshake issue.

When I get home (Monday afternoon) I will try different "on" sequences and see if that makes a difference. I may ask you, jconjason, what some of your 4311 settings are, if you don't mind. I can't remember what all the options are from this hotel room.

Thanks to all for trying to help me with this. Without you I would have thrown in the towel by now.

Happy Father's Day AVDs! (Audio Video Dads)

PS, anybody get any new cool AV toys for FD?

 

Can you check two things on the 4311, please?

 

 

 

In the Info/Audio Input Signal, are you seeing 3/2/.1?  If not, then the 4311 is not seeing a 5.1 signal, and the problem is upstream.

 

In the Info/Auto Surround Mode, is the Digital 5.1ch setting Dolby Digital?  If not, then a setting on the 4311 is at fault.

post #22030 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Can you check two things on the 4311, please?

In the Info/Audio Input Signal, are you seeing 3/2/.1?  If not, then the 4311 is not seeing a 5.1 signal, and the problem is upstream.

In the Info/Auto Surround Mode, is the Digital 5.1ch setting Dolby Digital?  If not, then a setting on the 4311 is at fault.

Problem solved. I took the splitter out of the chain again and this time it worked. I tried that several days ago and still got only 2 channel so I concluded the splitter had nothing to do with it. It must have been a 'Handshake" issue then.

I tried sending my Blu Ray signal through the splitter and the same thing happens. Only 2 channel. I thought for sure when I had my Scientific Atlanta Hi-Def DVR I was getting multi-channel passed through the splitter. I'm wondering why the splitter will not pass a multi-channel audio signal through. The signal should be unchanged, just duplicated.
post #22031 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post

I'm wondering why the splitter will not pass a multi-channel audio signal through. The signal should be unchanged, just duplicated.

Here is the HDMI splitter specs:

One input HDMI V1.3 signal can split to 4 HDMI V1.3 signals identical to the input signal
Digital audio format, DTS-HD/Dolby-True-HD/LPCM7.1/AC3/DTS/DSD
Support deep color 30bit, 36bit, 1080P blu-ray 24/50/60fs/XvYCc
Support 3D, HDTV, Blu-ray, PS3, DVD, Xbox, AppleTV,etc.
Max bandwidth : 10.2Gbps for 3D; Support signal retiming; Support CEC

Am I missing something or should this not work?
I think it did work and is no longer working.

Here's the item:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00263D7A4/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
post #22032 of 23169
Wish you had mentioned the splitter before, a pretty huge piece of the puzzle that would have allowed a much quicker diagnosis...

What you are missing is that the splitter "support" specs are irrelevant, the problem is the fact that you ALSO have the tv connected so it becomes part of the HDMI handshake chain. When the source requests EDID info from the HDMI sinks in the chain, it sees the tv (which obviously can't accept multichannel audio) and so the capabilities of the entire system chain are reported as 2ch stereo. So the devices reset themselves automatically to 2ch output, just like if you connected them directly to a tv. This is essentially a "lowest common denominator" situation, the same would happen if you used a splitter to connect a 1080p and a 720p projector which couldn't accept 1080p inputs... the source would automatically disable 1080p output because it "knows" that the max resolution supported by the chain is 1080i/720p.

The reason it probably works sometimes is that if you set the source up and it only sees the receiver (the tv is off) it will work initially, but the first time the source "sees" the tv in the HDMI chain it will reset itself down to a "legal" output that the tv claims it will support.
post #22033 of 23169
Nice analysis, BP.

Greg, just curious, why do you have the splitter in the signal path?
post #22034 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Nice analysis, BP.

Greg, just curious, why do you have the splitter in the signal path?
Curious here as well...confused.gif
post #22035 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Wish you had mentioned the splitter before, a pretty huge piece of the puzzle that would have allowed a much quicker diagnosis...

What you are missing is that the splitter "support" specs are irrelevant, the problem is the fact that you ALSO have the tv connected so it becomes part of the HDMI handshake chain. When the source requests EDID info from the HDMI sinks in the chain, it sees the tv (which obviously can't accept multichannel audio) and so the capabilities of the entire system chain are reported as 2ch stereo. So the devices reset themselves automatically to 2ch output, just like if you connected them directly to a tv. This is essentially a "lowest common denominator" situation, the same would happen if you used a splitter to connect a 1080p and a 720p projector which couldn't accept 1080p inputs... the source would automatically disable 1080p output because it "knows" that the max resolution supported by the chain is 1080i/720p.

The reason it probably works sometimes is that if you set the source up and it only sees the receiver (the tv is off) it will work initially, but the first time the source "sees" the tv in the HDMI chain it will reset itself down to a "legal" output that the tv claims it will support.

While this will not help with Greg's problem, I just wanted to point out that HDMI matrix switches do not have this limitation; they can send the appropriate audio signal to multiple devices.

Mark
post #22036 of 23169
Not necessarily, if the matrix switch is feeding the SAME source to two HDMI sinks simultaneously the same thing will happen. You can't simultaneously send say DTS-HD and 2.0 PCM from the same source (unless the switch has some active processing that is down mixing the multichannel signal). If you are feeding the switch two different sources to two different sinks then it can support two EDID infos, but one source to two sinks will have the same problem.

The point is that it isn't the switch that is lacking some capability as the cause of the problem, it's the fact that the splitter/switch is causing the source to see two HDMI sinks with differing capability that is the root cause.
post #22037 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

While this will not help with Greg's problem, I just wanted to point out that HDMI matrix switches do not have this limitation; they can send the appropriate audio signal to multiple devices.
That's actually not true, except possibly in some isolated cases on very high end matrix switchers. Let's say the preferred (best) audio coming from the source device is 7.1 channel Dolby True HD. In order to send stereo audio to a connected TV, the matrix switcher would need to decode that audio and downmix it to 2 channels as the source device can't simultaneously send stereo audio AND 7.1 channel Dolby True HD over the HDMI cable - I'm not aware of a matrix switcher that is capable of doing this. All the matrix switchers I've used (Octava previously, and now a Crestron DM series matrix) and am aware of go with the highest common denominator approach using the EDID info from all the connected end points. So if you've got a TV hooked up to one output and an AVR that can handle all audio formats (such as an AVR-4311) hooked up to another output, the best audio the AVR is going to see is the best the TV is capable of accepting (quite often stereo LPCM). This applies when both outputs are routed to the same source. If the outputs are connected to different sources, then yes the TV can receive stereo audio while the AVR receives 7.1 Dolby True HD.
post #22038 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Wish you had mentioned the splitter before, a pretty huge piece of the puzzle that would have allowed a much quicker diagnosis...
.

Actually, I did in post 22026. And as I mentioned in that post, I didn't mention it earlier because it was the first thing I suspected, so I tried it with and without it in the chain and it made no difference so I eliminated it from the probable cause list.

As to why I have a splitter in the chain?

Because I have 4 displays that I watch DirecTV. (TVs in office, patio and home theater plus front projector in HT) and only 2 outputs on 4311. Which brings me to the question: Why does the splitter in the 4311 pass DD 5.1 and not the outboard splitter?
post #22039 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

That's actually not true, except possibly in some isolated cases on very high end matrix switchers. Let's say the preferred (best) audio coming from the source device is 7.1 channel Dolby True HD. In order to send stereo audio to a connected TV, the matrix switcher would need to decode that audio and downmix it to 2 channels as the source device can't simultaneously send stereo audio AND 7.1 channel Dolby True HD over the HDMI cable - I'm not aware of a matrix switcher that is capable of doing this. All the matrix switchers I've used (Octava previously, and now a Crestron DM series matrix) and am aware of go with the highest common denominator approach using the EDID info from all the connected end points. So if you've got a TV hooked up to one output and an AVR that can handle all audio formats (such as an AVR-4311) hooked up to another output, the best audio the AVR is going to see is the best the TV is capable of accepting (quite often stereo LPCM). This applies when both outputs are routed to the same source. If the outputs are connected to different sources, then yes the TV can receive stereo audio while the AVR receives 7.1 Dolby True HD.

OK Guys, I stand corrected. I was thinking of my scenario whereby my matrix switch can feed two AVR's with the same audio capabilities.

Mark
post #22040 of 23169
I have no logical explanation for this, but the rear USB port on my 4311 is somehow affected by the receiver's speaker impedance setting. I have two 0.45A fans connected in parallel to the USB port, and when the power supply's rail voltage is limited with the 4 Ohm speaker impedance setting the fans decelerate inaudibly to a full stop as the receiver is powered off. However, at the 8 Ohm setting (and higher rail voltage cap) every time the receiver is powered off I can hear 3-4 clicks from the fans as they slow down. The clicking is usually a sign of voltage dropping below the lower limit of the fan's operating voltage range. The fans are undervolted to begin with, since they are rated for 12 V, but are being run at the USB port's 5 V. Can anybody make a logical connection between changing the rail voltage cap and USB port's voltage drop profiles when the receiver is being turned off?..
post #22041 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregavi View Post

Which brings me to the question: Why does the splitter in the 4311 pass DD 5.1 and not the outboard splitter?
The outboard splitter WILL pass DD 5.1 if the 2 devices that are connected to it both support it and the source device is sending DD 5.1. The key here is how the EDID handshake works - if 2 devices connected to the outputs have different capabilities, the source will only send the best format supported by both. As to why the splitter in the 4311 can pass DD 5.1, I haven't used both HDMI outputs, but it most likely has something to do with sending audio output on only 1 of the outputs (as I recall, 1 of the outputs can be setup to only send video).
post #22042 of 23169
Thanks to everyone in this and the AVR-5420ci Thread I will be leaving the AVR-4806 and start my journey with the AVR-4311ci. smile.gif
post #22043 of 23169
I'm looking for some advice on adding external amplification to my AVR-A100.

My system is set up for 9.2, with DSX wides and fronts (no surround back). I also have a Zone2 (patio).

Because the Amp Assign feature is limited on this AVR, and the infrequency of which Zone2 is used, I typically leave the Amp Assign mode on Normal, and switch Amp Assign mode to Zone2 when needed (and then I can only run DSX Wide or DSX Height on the main zone).

I do have a 2-channel (250w into 8ohm) amp I can add to the system, but it is really overkill for DSX channels or Zone2. I was thinking of selling my 2-channel amp, and picking up a multi-channel amp. With the new amp, I would also like to add some headroom to the main channels (LCR). I only have room for 1 external amp in my rack (two AVR sized amps would fit, but I don't want to kill them with heat overload).

My speakers are Energy RC-70, and RC-LCR, and it seems the clarity and dynamics improve with more power than the AVR-A100 is capable of at higher SPL's.

My question is, would passive bi-amping a moderately powered amp with the AVR's amps provide any benefit?

For instance, 80W would be plenty to power my patio speakers. That consumes 2-channels of an external amp.

But would 80W from external amp to the Mid/High of the RC-70's and RC-LCR (FR, FL, and C), and AMP of the denon to the LOW of RC-70 and RC-LCR yield any improvements (or maybe minimum of 125w needed)?
Obviously there might be an SPL difference between the high/low with this setup, but would Audyssey take care of that effectively?

So my basic question is how would passively bi-amping a speaker with a combination of internal and external amps work out, or would I be better off just buying a higher powered multi-channel amp?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I didn't really find any info on combining internal and external amps on one speaker. Thanks, Jason
Edited by jasonmichaelh - 6/19/13 at 7:02pm
post #22044 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post

I'm looking for some advice on adding external amplification to my AVR-A100.

My system is set up for 7.2, with DSX wides and fronts (no surround back). I also have a Zone2 (patio).

Because the Amp Assign feature is limited on this AVR, and the infrequency of which Zone2 is used, I typically leave the Amp Assign mode on Normal, and switch Amp Assign mode to Zone2 when needed (and then I can only run DSX Wide or DSX Height on the main zone).

I do have a 2-channel (250w into 8ohm) amp I can add to the system, but it is really overkill for DSX channels or Zone2. I was thinking of selling my 2-channel amp, and picking up a multi-channel amp. With the new amp, I would also like to add some headroom to the main channels (LCR). I only have room for 1 external amp in my rack (two AVR sized amps would fit, but I don't want to kill them with heat overload).

My speakers are Energy RC-70, and RC-LCR, and it seems the clarity and dynamics improve with more power than the AVR-A100 is capable of at higher SPL's.

My question is, would passive bi-amping a moderately powered amp with the AVR's amps provide any benefit?

For instance, 80W would be plenty to power my patio speakers. That consumes 2-channels of an external amp.

But would 80W from external amp to the Mid/High of the RC-70's and RC-LCR (FR, FL, and C), and AMP of the denon to the LOW of RC-70 and RC-LCR yield any improvements (or maybe minimum of 125w needed)?
Obviously there might be an SPL difference between the high/low with this setup, but would Audyssey take care of that effectively?

So my basic question is how would passively bi-amping a speaker with a combination of internal and external amps work out, or would I be better off just buying a higher powered multi-channel amp?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I didn't really find any info on combining internal and external amps on one speaker. Thanks, Jason
I would strongly recommend against any sort of biamping that involves a mix of the 4311's amps and an external amp - you're bound to run into all sorts of gain differences there that I wouldn't expect Audyssey to be capable of dealing with. And if you wanted to use direct / pure direct mode once in a while that would likely be a mess. I'm not sure what your budget is, what brand / model your existing 250W external amp is, etc., but one option would be to trade up from the 4311 to a 4520 and then use the 250W amp for your front L/R speakers. The much more flexible amp assign capabilities in the 4520 would solve the flexibility issues you're running into with the 4311's amp assign modes.
post #22045 of 23169
Hi gsr,

Thanks for replying. I have the AVR-A100 and DBP-A100 combo. The 4520 isn't a significant enough upgrade IMO to justify the cost. I only use this system with Audyssey engaged, so I'd be really curious to hear other feedback about it being able to compensate for the gain differences, if the external amp can't be perfectly matched to the internals. Also would this really increase headroom and clarity at higher SPL's.

btw, my 2-channel is parasound 2250, and I don't want to spend more than I can exchnage that one for (a used parasound 5125 maybe).
Edited by jasonmichaelh - 6/18/13 at 5:55pm
post #22046 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonmichaelh View Post

I'm looking for some advice on adding external amplification to my AVR-A100.
My system is set up for 7.2, with DSX wides and fronts (no surround back). I also have a Zone2 (patio).
Because the Amp Assign feature is limited on this AVR, and the infrequency of which Zone2 is used, I typically leave the Amp Assign mode on Normal, and switch Amp Assign mode to Zone2 when needed (and then I can only run DSX Wide or DSX Height on the main zone).
I do have a 2-channel (250w into 8ohm) amp I can add to the system, but it is really overkill for DSX channels or Zone2. I was thinking of selling my 2-channel amp, and picking up a multi-channel amp. With the new amp, I would also like to add some headroom to the main channels (LCR). I only have room for 1 external amp in my rack (two AVR sized amps would fit, but I don't want to kill them with heat overload).
My speakers are Energy RC-70, and RC-LCR, and it seems the clarity and dynamics improve with more power than the AVR-A100 is capable of at higher SPL's.
My question is, would passive bi-amping a moderately powered amp with the AVR's amps provide any benefit?
For instance, 80W would be plenty to power my patio speakers. That consumes 2-channels of an external amp.

But would 80W from external amp to the Mid/High of the RC-70's and RC-LCR (FR, FL, and C), and AMP of the denon to the LOW of RC-70 and RC-LCR yield any improvements (or maybe minimum of 125w needed)?
Obviously there might be an SPL difference between the high/low with this setup, but would Audyssey take care of that effectively?

So my basic question is how would passively bi-amping a speaker with a combination of internal and external amps work out, or would I be better off just buying a higher powered multi-channel amp?

Sorry if this has been discussed, but I didn't really find any info on combining internal and external amps on one speaker. Thanks, Jason
Jason, I'd agree with gsr's encouraging you to abandon that biamping idea. But AFAIK there's no need to upgrade any of your gear. Just go ahead and use your ext 2 ch amp to power your FR/L. This lessens the load on the Denon quite effectively.

I don't use Z2 but IIUC this will free up 2 int amps for Z2 so you can select Amp Assign Z2 mode and no more switching will be needed.
post #22047 of 23169
I have tried the external amp on the FR/FL before and it does seem effective at giving other channels more headroom.

Unfortunately, even though powering the FR and FL channels externally frees up 2 int amps, there is no way to configure the 4311/ AVR-A100 to run A-DSX Wide + Height AND Zone2 all from internal amps. If someone could prove me wrong I would love it smile.gif

I wonder if that is truely a hardware limitation, or if a firmware change could patch it.

I guess I should add, that it is possible to configure the amp assign for height and wides, but then when you cycle through the A-DSX modes, H+W is not available, and when you change from H to W or vice versa you can hear the relay toggling the amp output to corresponding speaker terminals.
post #22048 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The outboard splitter WILL pass DD 5.1 if the 2 devices that are connected to it both support it and the source device is sending DD 5.1. The key here is how the EDID handshake works - if 2 devices connected to the outputs have different capabilities, the source will only send the best format supported by both. As to why the splitter in the 4311 can pass DD 5.1, I haven't used both HDMI outputs, but it most likely has something to do with sending audio output on only 1 of the outputs (as I recall, 1 of the outputs can be setup to only send video).

I tried another setup and it works. Here it is:

DVR >4311>Splitter>TV-A & TV-B & TV-C (I have 3 TVs I'm feeding)
All 3 TVs get audio and HiDef Video. Audio only when I switch 4311 to HDMI Out "TV" instead of Amp. That makes sense.

What I had and did not work was:

DVR>Splitter>4311 & TV-A & TV-B & TV-C.
This way sent Hi-Def Video but not DD 5.1 (only 2 Channel) audio through. Doesn't that mean the "Splitter" is not sending the DD 5.1 through. The TV is at the end of the chain in both cases, so I don't see the TV as having anything to do with it.

Note: This is not a reply to gsr in particular, just what was stated in general about this topic. I still don't fully understand how this HDMI/splitter works.

Cheers!
post #22049 of 23169
Gregavi, have you considered getting the mini clients from DirecTV for the other televisions? Since you have the hr-34, you wouldn't need a full dvr for every TV.
post #22050 of 23169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Gregavi, have you considered getting the mini clients from DirecTV for the other televisions? Since you have the hr-34, you wouldn't need a full dvr for every TV.

I have one for TV #4. It's a pretty good solution, but they do cost, I think $6/month each. I would rather buy something that cost more up front rather than pay monthly. Like buying a car rather than leasing. Plus, the client (which is 75ft away, in the Living Room) is much slower. (Accessing channels, FF,RW etc.) TV #1, 2 &3 are all in the same proximity, so it makes it easy to run HDMI cables. Another point. I have a Denon 789 in the Living Room that is fed from the client and it only receives 2.0. Probably a question for the DirecTV forum, but you'd think the client would pass DD 5.1.
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