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The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 105

post #3121 of 21928
11/10/10 at 2:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

does the 4311 have the DVDO PReP* style capabilities?

*Progressive ReProcessing technology

No. I have a DVDO VP50 Pro and a 4311. The 4311 can't do that.

Mark
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post #3122 of 21928
11/10/10 at 2:27am
Thanks Mark.
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post #3123 of 21928
11/10/10 at 2:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tallnick View Post

can someone using two subs give a quick review of Audyssey XT32 dual sub EQ?
it sounds awesome, does it work as advertised?

anyone using dual svs pc13-ultras?

For the subs, XT32 acts practically the same as the SVS AS-EQ1. In that regard, the 4311 is just as awesome.

I suggest you go to the SVS AS-EQ1 thread where there are a lot of reviews: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

Mark
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post #3124 of 21928
11/10/10 at 3:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

URC might be a bit slower at updating their DB than Harmony but the Remotes themselves and programming software are light years a head in the quality department!

No, you prefer the way URC does it. Your preference does not make the programming light years a head.
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post #3125 of 21928
11/10/10 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

No, you prefer the way URC does it. Your preference does not make the programming light years a head.

I haven't used the URCs, but as a programmer I have to say that any other way than the harmony way almost has to be better

I so hate that wizard (but I still like my remote), I would save me so much time to just get a script or table of values I could copy and change for new activities... In stead the wizard from hell, lol
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post #3126 of 21928
11/10/10 at 4:08am
Just want to share some experience. Coming from Yamaha Rx v3800 to avr 4311 was a huge improvement, running high and wide channels in my HT setup are just awesome (9-2) Had no dropouts on my previous setup.Like some others in the forum i experienced sound and video dropouts. (up to 15 sound dropouts during a movie). My current setup is Panasonic bdp 55 (installed latest FW 10 days ago) with Supra HDMI cables (sound output bitstream) and JVC HD 750 PJ. I have done all 8 configurations on sound and did som adjustments in manual setup for crossovers and set front speaker on small.
All other settings are default.
Shifted to my 1 gen PS3 with video output 1080p/24, sound PCM.
Used the same movies with no dropouts.
Contacted my local dealer here in Norway and i mentioned this forum tread, got a quick reply from Denon service managers in Europe.They had not heard about some dropouts issues on this model but they mentioned some minor update on the Us models. And they wanted more info on my setup.

Guess i have to do some more troubleshooting, maybe put sound output on my panny to PCM and see what happens.Shift some inputs and so on.


Planning to buy the new Oppo 93 , hopefully this will solve the problem.
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post #3127 of 21928
11/10/10 at 4:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

No, you prefer the way URC does it. Your preference does not make the programming light years a head.

If by that you mean I prefer having total control over my remote and not being treated like im stupid, then yes, guilty as charged!
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post #3128 of 21928
11/10/10 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

I for for one would not be "popping the hood" on either a $2k 4311 or a $2.5k A100, just to satisfy the curiosity of someone else. At those kind of prices for AVR's I'd value still having a valid warranty, and I see no reason to risk it by taking things apart just to take pictures of it for someone else. Come on, think about, just to satisfy other peoples curiosity, I really can't see why anyone would do it.

Oh, sorry. Not aware that taking the cover off would woid warranty! I've personally been adviced by my local shop to take the cover off for gentle dust removal on an earlier Denon receiver. I'm terribly sorry, I'll edit my earlier post.

EDIT: What a smooth start on my membership; Encouraging others to woid their warranty. Score.
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post #3129 of 21928
11/10/10 at 5:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pludder View Post

I haven't used the URCs, but as a programmer I have to say that any other way than the harmony way almost has to be better

I so hate that wizard (but I still like my remote), I would save me so much time to just get a script or table of values I could copy and change for new activities... In stead the wizard from hell, lol

Good for you. I am a sys admin and can tell you this 'wizard from hell' is complete BS. It is simple and over in a matter of minutes.

You just don't like the wizard and would rather take the far longer time of doing it yourself.

Seriously, it took me 60 seconds per activity to transition from the Anthem Statement to the Denon 4311. Another 30 or so to add the Denon. These are not exaggerated numbers.

Again, you just don't like the method they use. That does not mean the method they use is bad, wrong, clunky, slow, from hell or whatever you want to call it.
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post #3130 of 21928
11/10/10 at 5:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

Good for you. I am a sys admin and can tell you this 'wizard from hell' is complete BS. It is simple and over in a matter of minutes.

You just don't like the wizard and would rather take the far longer time of doing it yourself.

Seriously, it took me 60 seconds per activity to transition from the Anthem Statement to the Denon 4311. Another 30 or so to add the Denon. These are not exaggerated numbers.

Again, you just don't like the method they use. That does not mean the method they use is bad, wrong, clunky, slow, from hell or whatever you want to call it.

Jimmy, adding a Device and activity is dead simple and we aren't denying that; where things get frustrating with Harmony's is when you want to modify activity macro's or create your own custom macros - this is painful and incredibly frustrating for someone who actually understands what they are doing.

btw, im not terribly technical at all these days, I'm a Customer Delivery Manager and have technical staff working for me.
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post #3131 of 21928
11/10/10 at 5:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post


Step behind, no! Considering that you must also wait for Harmony to add codes to their database, or in some cases that you must even supply them with the codes before they can be added to you Harmony. Where I can directly import Pronto ccf codes and convert them and then the add codes myself without waiting for URC to put them in a database, I can create and program macros to pretty much work anyway I want them to, they also are one of the best when it comes to having discrete codes in their database. So just how is that a step behind?

However be warned!

If you buy a URC from a unauthorized source, that you could very well be left out on your own and hung out to dry as far as getting any updated software or remote codes! URC is absolutely brutal in their stance against unauthorized sellers, and they pretty much enforce it by not allowing buyers who bought from a unauthorized seller any easy way to get the versions of their software that has the Live Update feature enabled.
Also, the URC programming software does not hold your hand like Harmony does. So for some people, there can be a rather steep learning curve before they get comfortable with the URC programming software. But on the other side, the URC software also allows you do much more, and it also gives more freedom and flexibilities than Harmony software does.

But regardless of all that. When it comes to going in a different direction over what is a supplied OEM remote. Then I want the choice to be mine on what optional type of remote to use. And not being forced to pay a additional $150 overall for a product, just so some may get a remote that they might like, when I do not like it or do not want it. Let the manufactures supply their products with OEM remotes for the lowest cost as possible to the end user, and let the end users decide to choose their own ways to go with a better remote.

Can you reco someplace to pick one up?
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post #3132 of 21928
11/10/10 at 5:55am
Don't feel bad or worry about scare tactics employed by "scared" individuals.
Taking the top off to have a look and take a photo does NOT void warranty.

....and yes im in a position to comment. Manufacturer repair centre.




Quote:
Originally Posted by ..bjørnar.. View Post

Oh, sorry. Not aware that taking the cover off would woid warranty! I've personally been adviced by my local shop to take the cover off for gentle dust removal on an earlier Denon receiver. I'm terribly sorry, I'll edit my earlier post.

EDIT: What a smooth start on my membership; Encouraging others to void their warranty. Score.
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post #3133 of 21928
11/10/10 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

things get frustrating with Harmony's is when you want to modify activity macro's or create your own custom macros - this is painful and incredibly frustrating

If not downright impossible. The Harmony's simply don't have the programming flexibility to do what the URCs can. There are things my previous URC did that my Harmony just won't do. Period.
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post #3134 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:30am
I received my 4311 yesterday from EE (it was double boxed for those who care). Here are the hook up details:

Oppo BDP-83 via HDMI
XBOX 360 slim via HDMI
Cisco 8640 DVR via HDMI
HDMI to Sony LCD TV (monitor out)
Wii via component
Sonos ZP90 via optical

I watched a couple of hours of TV and about an hour of movies and played the new Black Ops game on 360 and had not one single issue with audio drop-outs or video problems (ie blue rain). I turned video convert off for the Oppo just to be sure the video wasn't being affected in anyway, otherwise video convert is left on for everything else so I have the GUi overlay. Thus far, no issues, so hopefuly that will continue! In fact, I became so used to my other receiver (HK 3600) dropping audio whenever the audio source changed (ie from show to commercial and back), that when this unit didn't do that... I was amazed.

It was easy to set up Audyssey and I used 6 positions. This is my first experience with this, coming from a Harman Kardon AVR 3600. This progam absolutely blows away the EQ fo the HK. Distances and levels seemed pretty accurate. I changed the fronts and center to small (had them at large- Polk RTiA7's and CSiA6 center) and put them at 80 Hz. Surrounds are at 100 Hz (I run 5.1 only for now). I did turn up the sub just a tad after running it and the center just a little as well, but otherwise, it sounds better than it has ever sounded. THe calculation and set up was pretty quick (maybe 12-15 minutes). I'm using the Audyssey setting for now.

I'm still learning my way around this unit as it is my first Denon, but so far I really love it. There are defniitely more adjustments than the HK had and I like the GUI better. All in all a very good purchase so far!
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post #3135 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:35am
So, on the topic of the Denon remote, of those that got the A100, did you get the 2 remotes? One of them is like the 4311 and the 2nd is a bit bigger with a small LCD screen. Just received my unit last night and unpacked it but can't spend time hooking up and testing until the weekend. It came double boxed with bubble wrap between the 2 boxes (3 inches all the way around) from One Call. I'll see if there are the same blue rain and drop out issues. Also, using dual subs and can compare to current setup which is an NAD T785 (beefy amps inside with 2 toroids) and the SVS AS-EQ1.
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post #3136 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:45am
Has anyone spoke to Denon about the high black levels? I calibrated my tV (Samsung UN55B8500) and the black levels were set but after hooking up the A100, I had to lower the brightness from 45 to 32. Other than this, the unit has been great.
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post #3137 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariob33 View Post

Can you reco someplace to pick one up?

Surf Remote in California.
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post #3138 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:50am
I've been told that the first batch of A100/4311's had some confirmed issues with video that have been corrected in the current shipping batch.

I do not know if this is a firmware fix or a HW related issue, but this may be related to some of the shipping delays we saw at product launch. I don't know when the cutover occurred either, but it would be interesting to see if those having video issues are some of the first adopters, and those reporting no issues are from more recent shipments (though ultimately, serial number range will tell where you are in the production cycle)

Perhaps this will help some in getting their units replaced..

I cannot reference the source, sorry, but is someone reliable personally to me.
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post #3139 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I've been told that the first batch of A100/4311's had some confirmed issues with video that have been corrected in the current shipping batch.

I do not know if this is a firmware fix or a HW related issue, but this may be related to some of the shipping delays we saw at product launch. I don't know when the cutover occurred either, but it would be interesting to see if those having video issues are some of the first adopters, and those reporting no issues are from more recent shipments (though ultimately, serial number range will tell where you are in the production cycle)

Perhaps this will help some in getting their units replaced..

I cannot reference the source, sorry, but is someone reliable personally to me.

very troubling for an Anniversary product

(my opinion only)
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post #3140 of 21928
11/10/10 at 6:59am
Wanted to ask about the Dial Norm message on the 4311. Normally the message I get is:

Dial Norm
Offset - 4dB

What I wanted to ask is the "-" just a dash or does it indicate minus? As in the Dial Norm is -4dB (minus 4dB)?
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post #3141 of 21928
11/10/10 at 7:01am
Say, how does one go about getting the Audyssey Pro kit for the 4311? What's the price like?
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post #3142 of 21928
11/10/10 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

very troubling for an Anniversary product

(my opinion only)

I commiserate with the opinion, but sadly I'm almost coming to expect this - i'm a huge fan of Apple products, but even some of their new releases don't seem well vetted. It's not right, but the process QC seems to be taking hits most everywhere...

Also, this issue seems to be for both the A100 and 4311...
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post #3143 of 21928
11/10/10 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

Good for you. I am a sys admin and can tell you this 'wizard from hell' is complete BS. It is simple and over in a matter of minutes.

You just don't like the wizard and would rather take the far longer time of doing it yourself.

Seriously, it took me 60 seconds per activity to transition from the Anthem Statement to the Denon 4311. Another 30 or so to add the Denon. These are not exaggerated numbers.

Again, you just don't like the method they use. That does not mean the method they use is bad, wrong, clunky, slow, from hell or whatever you want to call it.

I totally agree it's a wizard from hell and designed by some incredible moron with no slightest idea of usability. It is a bad, wrong, clunky, slow because it violates several basic principles of UI design. The fact it took you "60 seconds" (I call BS) does not mean it is a good design.
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post #3144 of 21928
11/10/10 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I've been told that the first batch of A100/4311's had some confirmed issues with video that have been corrected in the current shipping batch.

I do not know if this is a firmware fix or a HW related issue, but this may be related to some of the shipping delays we saw at product launch. I don't know when the cutover occurred either, but it would be interesting to see if those having video issues are some of the first adopters, and those reporting no issues are from more recent shipments (though ultimately, serial number range will tell where you are in the production cycle)

Perhaps this will help some in getting their units replaced..

I cannot reference the source, sorry, but is someone reliable personally to me.

What ..on my premium anniversary edition. Which was tested before it left the factory..Whose the engineer that signed my certificate, I want his badge number.
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post #3145 of 21928
11/10/10 at 7:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Wanted to ask about the Dial Norm message on the 4311. Normally the message I get is:

Dial Norm
Offset - 4dB

What I wanted to ask is the "-" just a dash or does it indicate minus? As in the Dial Norm is -4dB (minus 4dB)?

That would be minus 4db ... read here for more info on Dialnorm.
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post #3146 of 21928
11/10/10 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclemat View Post

I totally agree it's a wizard from hell and designed by some incredible moron with no slightest idea of usability. It is a bad, wrong, clunky, slow because it violates several basic principles of UI design. The fact it took you "60 seconds" (I call BS) does not mean it is a good design.

This is the wizard:

What do you want to do: listen to music, tv, etc, etc, etc.

You pick one. For this lets say listen to music. Mine is a squeezebox.

it then asks 'what device will you use to stream the music.' You then pick your device.

What device controls volume. You pick the device.

What input do you need your AVR to be on. You pick the input.

Then you hit done.

I then go in and rename the input to what I want it named.

If you think that takes more than 60 seconds and I am making this up, then I don't know what to tell you as you clearly have never used this 'wizard from hell' or used a very early version of their software.

Like I have said all along, neither is good or bad, it is just two different ways of doing the same thing.
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post #3147 of 21928
11/10/10 at 8:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

I've been told that the first batch of A100/4311's had some confirmed issues with video that have been corrected in the current shipping batch.

I do not know if this is a firmware fix or a HW related issue, but this may be related to some of the shipping delays we saw at product launch. I don't know when the cutover occurred either, but it would be interesting to see if those having video issues are some of the first adopters, and those reporting no issues are from more recent shipments (though ultimately, serial number range will tell where you are in the production cycle)

Perhaps this will help some in getting their units replaced..

I cannot reference the source, sorry, but is someone reliable personally to me.

My 4311 shipped from EE last week, and I had to wait for them to get it in stock. I have the blue rain issue AND I have some form of altering to video even when turning off video convert. It may be as simple as the black levels being jacked, as someone else mentioned. I have not had the time to sit down and work on that.
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post #3148 of 21928
11/10/10 at 8:33am
OK, I contributed to the URC Harmony debate...... My take, two different camps...... Never going to agree much on anything. what I originally asked was....... Does anyone actually like the new Remote? It ain't pretty but I like it as a backup to my main Harmony 1100. It is far better than the old membrane remote. Any thoughts or does everyone just toss it?

As far the standard Denon vs licensing something like a Harmony, I agree it's not a good thing to make the AVR more expensive with an upgraded remote but what I suggested is a add in option to get an upgraded remote. Something better than the barely purchased RF model Denon sells.

Finally, I keep trying the Apple Ap and many times, it just doesn't locate the 4311. It's annoying as my Sonos I-Pad app always finds the Sonos boxes, the Web Gui always links and can connect to the 4311's IP address, and every other component does as well, save one. the "save one" other problem is occurring with the Remote feature built in to the I-phone app for I-TV. I lose connection often.

This all kind of makes me think that consumer grade home media products are insanely behind in making their net connections stable. I wonder if any of the in house engineers even test their connectivity of anything or just build equipment in some kind of a bubble?

It's all good though, I just get surprised about how clunky some things still are.
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post #3149 of 21928
11/10/10 at 8:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

This is the wizard....Like I have said all along, neither is good or bad, it is just two different ways of doing the same thing.

Sorry to go OT, but I will keep it brief - the wizard is great in principal, but in application can be very frustrating:

- the radio buttons, continue, next, done, cancel, page by page will give you carpal tunnel
- you cannot change the order of certain commands on your own
- you cannot customize power up or power down sequences
- the need to update the RF extender every single time you make even the smallest change is nuts since you must disconnect from your rack each time
- you cannot create a macro button (ie, pressing PLAY starts playback and then dims your lights)
- you can not program screen navigation (it would be nice to have a soft button that said "Surround", and then jump to a common surround parameters page with all your options, accessible from any activity so you make changes on one page not on several
- you cannot customize screen layouts
- updated devices were presented to me, and accepting the new devices wiped out certain hard buttons fir every activity (ie volume up, down, mute, etc) and I had to go into each and every screen for every activity and reset them manually (so no global/punch through concept). It also changed the devices to infrared instead of the previously selected RF extender.

The list can go on...
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post #3150 of 21928
11/10/10 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyTango View Post

This is the wizard:

What do you want to do: listen to music, tv, etc, etc, etc.

You pick one. For this lets say listen to music. Mine is a squeezebox.

it then asks 'what device will you use to stream the music.' You then pick your device.

What device controls volume. You pick the device.

What input do you need your AVR to be on. You pick the input.

Then you hit done.

I then go in and rename the input to what I want it named.

If you think that takes more than 60 seconds and I am making this up, then I don't know what to tell you as you clearly have never used this 'wizard from hell' or used a very early version of their software.

Like I have said all along, neither is good or bad, it is just two different ways of doing the same thing.

Are you working for Logitech or something? E.g. Using wizard step to select 'Yes' or No' (to cancel changes) is a good interface? Clicking up/down arrows forever to rearrange soft buttons is a good interface as well?

If you want to truly customize the remotes and arrange every button as you like it takes hours. For few devices I have their database turned out incomplete or flat out wrong. You cannot for example select "continuous" mode for certain commands which causes the operation to be super slow (e.g. volume up/down on my older Onkyo receiver). You have to contact support and wait days for them to do anything.

And no, I bought three Harmony remotes last month (900, 700 and 650) and I am using the latest software. It's utter crap. I like the hardware though and there is unfortunately no decent alternative. If it wasn't the crappy software policy of URC I'd take a look a them.

It's a sad situation. If there was a decent competition Logitech would have to get their **** together in order to compete. Glad you like being fed crap. Some indeed do.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK]