The "Official" Denon AVR-4311CI/AVR-A100 thread [NO PRICE TALK] - Page 119

Wow, don't go all happy here.... Too many people feeling the pain...... Me.... Doing fine as well.

I would like to get back to people actually listening to music and watching movies. So far, my take is ever so marginally better than the 4810 for movie performance but much better in Bass management. Somewhat less satisfactory for stereo music, but honestly can't tell if I just want to believe it's not as good at stereo. I can really tell it's better on movies.

I am still evaluating TV content. Somehow, I am a touch more inclined to lower the reference DSX processing than I felt compelled to do with the 4810. I'll post after a Netflix 2.1 and bad TV session. I have to tinker. Which, by the way, I wish this thread would eventually get going on. I'd like those who are climbing the learning curve to get a bit more user experience with the thing and hope those with defective units get ones that ; er, are not.

I need the happy... it's basically the only thing going well for me right now.. so I'm gonna savor it.

SeattleHTGuy,

What seems to make the 4311 a little less? I actually thought the A100 sounded ( last I heard it been on road for over a week no playtime) a little better in stereo mode with audyssey disabled than with it on but assumed it was just me or I was missing some basic setup tweak..

I did notice the input indicators on the 4311 were blank after the audio dropped. After hitting power off and then repowering I backed up the Tivo and sound played normally for the section where audio had been dropped.

Much better than my 2309 with the same speakers. 5.1 sound from over the air broadcasts puts you there.

I've only played one Blue Ray and that worked with no problems.

And the 4311 found the media server in my linksys router and the Windows media player in Vista. The router is in the same rack as the rest of my equipment so the only wireless is to get to the PC. Scrolling and/or selecting songs is quick. I have a 51N hooked to the old 2309 and it scrolls slow.. But this is nearly as fast as you can hit the select and/or scroll button.

We played with pandora a bit and it has worked flawlessly. I logged on with my id from the Tivo and all of the old stations were there and easily accessible.

I like the remote but they could have done a better job of customizing it for devices(If you set the DVR up to control a Tivo it works flawlessly ... except they activated the fast forward, play and rewind buttons in one row of buttons. On the row below that they activated only the pause/start button, elevting not to activate the skip back and skip forward buttons on the same line. I can never understand why companies elect to implement only half the functions if they are going to do any of them.

Input channel indicators do not go out for me when the audio is lost.

My answer is going to be dangerously subjective and therefore somewhat lame. It sounded a touch flatter (the 4311 - that is), with some sense of just being a bit more constricted. It's like Dianna Krall's voice was just a bit more breathfilled with the 4810 and the room was slightly more "there" with Sade.

See, it's so dang subjective, I'm inclined to think I just wanted the 4810 to sound better because it cost a bit more. Both are very good in everything-off stereo but who knows. It also may be my memory from when I got the 803S's and the 4810 working together. That was a good moment. I just would like to hear others opinions for listening sessions. Kind of just because I'd like to hear from others. Really want to hear from Thrang!!! His system is from another world.

Something new today, while viewing Tevo HD movie the video suddenly stalled while the audio continued... then the video seemed to fast-forward and catch up to the audio, finally re-syncing. Anyone else have this situation?

Edit: it was pointed out to me by the Mrs. that it was a Netflix HD movie (Legion) viewed thru TeVo.

Darn, I live in Brazil and got one shipped to me from some store through ebay. They had opened the box to 'show to customers' and sold this unit as second hand for a good price. I've had it now at the hotel that I'm staying for the last week and some speakers to go with it that I'll be taking along to Brazil too. No way to test all the features currently, so boy, am I scared now! Serial number starting with 009. Stereo sound is very good, playing through the DVD drive on my laptop. Have a Oppo at home. Bought a logitech harmony One here too, but it's horrific with the Denon. Can't scroll down in the menu with the direction buttons around the 'ok' button. Only left and right work.
I now have to work my way back to this thread to see what kind of issues folks are having. Not cool after having made such a big investment. Hope nothing is wrong with mine.

The Logitech remotes don't have the Up and Down set as Menu Up or Down as default.. they default to Tune Up and Down (I think..)

You need to go into devices on the Harmony setup and change it manually.

Hey fun night! Was watching some recorded 5.1 TV (OK, "Chuck" or what I like to call mental cotton candy) and bam! Lost the 4311, screen rolls up, and amps go bye bye. Which means that the 4311, with the two triggers out went off. One second later, screen drops, amps come back on and Denon does it's light show at start up. Guess what? Loss of audio to the Denon and, get this, the Tivo skips a good 15 minutes on the show in a second.

So, who's fault is it? The Tivo? the Denon? Well, the answer is, and this has been alluded to often. with the complexity of all this equipment it is often hard to tell. One new piece of equipment in the chain can cause all the problems and yet not be the only problem.

In this particular case, I think it was the temporary loss of power in our home due to the 55 mph windstorm outside. Pretty cool the Monster Power 7000 did it's job and protected it all. The HTPC didn't even lose all power. Way cool..... Lights flickered though and who knows, I might have blown a freezer!

My point is these connections are really complex in living with on a daily basis. It shouldn't be this way but sequence of connection can often matter. the 4311 lost the Tivo connection or the Tivo stopped correctly sending. Regardless, no input lights on the 4311 lit. I had to power down the 4311 to regain connection and hard power the Tivo. If, of course, this happened without a power surge, I'd get rid of the problem equipment; which could well be the 4311. On the other hand, my Tivo is starting to show signs of age.

There is a lot of emotion regarding this 4311 and I hope things get better or people throw in the towel. But....... Have you ever tried a 3 switch deep home network with 24 ports and 2 servers, then lost modem service and had to restart sequentially on three floors some 15 devices. More importantly - misses asks you what you did and all you can say is "turned it all off and then on and it's fine now". Stuff is complex. One needs a sense of humor... Enjoy...

You crack me up, SeattleHTGuy. A true die-hard fan. I read your posts and it is like football fans talking about their beloved teams!

Interesting. I'll wade through the GUI and see how that works.
It's un-frickin-believable though. I work in the computer business (Internet), making a good living at that, and by now I thought 'complex' was my middle name.
Then you start looking into audio and video stuff, and I realize I don't know ****. It's could easily be a full time job!

OK, to partially answer my own question...
In Setup > Manual Setup > HDMI Setup there is a setting for RGB Range.
In the manual the setting are described as:
Normal: Output with RGB video range (16 (black) to 235 (white)).
Enhanced: Output with RGB video range (0 (black) to 255 (black)).


I really dislike how manufacturers labels these things differently. "Normal" RGB range is 0-255, not 16-235. They should be labeled "RGB Full (0-255)" and "RGB Limited (16-235)".

Anyway, I've got my output set to enhanced and my Samsung C8000 can definitely display 0-255 but it doesn't have an informational screen verifying the color range it's receiving.

bodosom, what do you mean by "but, as documented, it's DVI only." As documented where? Thanks.

The other thing I wonder is if the RGB Range setting applies to the PC desktop layer and the video layer, or just the video layer. Guess I'll have to verify with a clipping patterns.

Thanks for any advice everyone.

Thanks...although I do claim issues... I am not entirely on board with all things Denon.... Let me review...

1) I-phone app often doesn't connect.
2) Issues with Tivo
3) Don't care for Web GUI relative to far better devices
4). not sure Stereo is better than 4810.
5! I do prefer better speaker bindings (Even if I don't use many of them)
6) Remote isn't pretty.
7) Miss the hard power button.
8) Preferred having a switched out.
9) The front panel of the 4810 is slightly better.
10) Free assign is cooler on the 4810.
11) No one should have ever have had a Blue Rain screen.
12) Big fat feet for free would have been better than no fat feet.
13) Feel for the people with tons of drops.
14) I wish Logitech would go deeper and get all the additional discrete codes done right for each model.
15) The freaking box should come with a DVD to set it all up in English.
16) I want the Audyssey Pro Kt for free. (Hey, I'm on a roll).
17) The guy with 8 subs should get 8 outs. that's gotta be a big market; 11.8. soooooo jealous.....
18) I should get a 5 year warranty too!
19) I want a Victoria Secret model as an installer thrown in..... damn did I type that?

With that last one, clearly time to crash. Enjoy and no, Denon stuff, just like most other AVR's is far from perfect. It's just a fun hobby and if it ain't fun, what's the point. Really, if you love Onkyo, Yamaha, Marantz, or Meridian, it should be fun. Sadly my favorite little guy died this month because they couldn't master lossless stuff. I know ATI bought the pieces but I will miss B&K as it was and still own my trusty B&K 307, warts and all. For those who owned it, just remember the mega pop at start up. All gear has issues.

I encounter the blue rain bugs and greenish corruption only in setup menu. FYI, I turn off video convert and so far no problem with actual video. Hopefully it's something that can be fix with firmware update.

My 4311 is an asian version without the CI. I can check the firmware version by holding both "status" and "return" while turning on the receiver. After the receiver is ON, press status to scroll through the firmware version. Below is the firmware version:

AVR4311 E2
S/N: 0091500xxx
Firm Package ver: 0002
Main: 00.58
Main ROM: 00.58
Main FBL: 00.05
Sub: 00.28
Sub FBL: 00.02
DSP1: 61.09
DSP2: 62.14
Audio PLD: 02.08
Video PLD: 03.03
GUI Config: A090416A
GUI PRG: 00007621
GUI DAT: 10060008
Ehternet FBL : 090311-bd
Ethernet SBL : B201002081213-04
Enternet IMG: I201007290757.

I have the same exact issue with my A100. Denon is sending me a next day air tag to have it repaired at the Denon service center in my state. I talked to a manager and he said please don't return the unit for exchange so we can analyze the problem. Waiting for the shipping label.

Let us know once it's been diagnose. I hope it's just a firmware issue. If not, I need to go through the trouble of sending the unit for repair.

think I'd be saying "fine, send me a new one and you can have this one back!"

it sux to have to send new gear back for repairs, should just be replaced as defective IMO

Problem is, I don't think that Denon knows if that will fix the issue. It seems that there are people on here who have returned a 4311 (or A100) and gotten another one with exactly the same problems. IMHO, return for repair is probably the best option, it sounds like they are (at least somewhat) aware of the issue, and hopefully will quickly determine what parts need to be changed to resolve these issues.

The guy with the a100 that had his repaired by replacing a board did not fix it. I did not see him report here(might have missed it), I saw him report it on the poll thread.

TBH: I'm not aware of anyone with a "fixed" unit yet. Seems the only relief has been seen through an exchange...and of course some of those have been faulty as well.

James

The "normal" video range (more correctly quantization) is defined as 16-235 and is notated as RGB:CE. The "normal" computing device on a television range is defined as 1-254 and is notated RGB:IT. The "normal" computer/digital camera/computer monitor range is 0-255 and is not directly considered by the relevant CSEA standard. It would be nice if companies that follow the CSEA standards (essentially all companies) would use the standard terminology -- likewise consumers.


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I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring at the point. I was one of the first here to get this receiver and since I've had it I have not experienced any video issues except longer-then-normal handshaking between my new LCD and the receiver. I did have green lines shooting across the screen horizontally one time but cycling the receiver, tv, and checking the HDMI cables fixed the issue and I haven't seen it happen again.

As far as audio I've watched about 10 movies so far and have played through dozens of games on my 360. Streaming from my PC to the PS3 has been flawless with no audio dropouts. Watching TV on my DirectTV box is a different story. I probably get 1-2 audio drop-outs every night but they are random and only last for about 2 seconds. The receiver instantly picks back up the signal without me having to do anything. I am thinking of swapping out my HDMI cable with the one I have hooked into my PS3 to see if the Denon is picky about HDMI cables.

I will say the most annoying thing I've found so far is how the receiver handles 360 audio. It always puts my sound mode into Dolby Digital mode and will let me add PLIIx on top of it, but never just PLIIx by itself. I know this is probably the "correct" method if you have a 7.1 sound setup or more, but the issue is in this mode my speakers, mainly my center, sound like absolute crap. The dialog out of my center is cut in half and my surrounds and other speakers are twice as loud. It only does this with my 360 and in this surround mode, ps3 sounds fine and so does my regular TV. Has anyone else experienced issues with the 360?

It's not possible unless the quantization bits are set in the HDMI meta-data and that's extremely rare. The full (254 steps) are always available. Device quantization controls (wherever they are) just control the RGB:CE <-> RGB:IT mapping which results in expansion (CE to IT), compression (IT to CE), 1 to 1 or some (destructive) mixture of those. Careful examination of clipping and ramp patterns can usually sort out what's going on.

My observations are that the 4311 is a quantization pass-through and my speculation is that the RGB range setting is to expand RGB:CE for an RGB:IT monitor so you get a "black".

You must have missed it, because I did put a message out when the board replacement didn't solve the problem. The woman who is working on the A100 said she was noticing voltage irregularities and was going to try swapping out some resisters or capaciters. She's supposed to get back to me this afternoon. I'm not very optimistic that this will be resolved any time soon.

I've kept Abt in the loop and they've been very supportive. They offered to exchange for another A100, a different AVR, or to give me a refund. Not sure which direction I will go if the unit still isn't fixed. I don't think I'd swap for another A100 unless they first set it up in the store and verified it was bug free (too much of a hassle to haul it home and set it up just to find out the second one is bad). No other AVRs are really on my radar screen at the moment (any suggestions?), so I might just go with the refund for now, and sit back and wait. Then I'd have to decide if I want to keep the DBP-A100 or return that too. Unfortunately I didn't get to play with the DBP very much. What little use it got, video and audio was excellent, though extremely slow (1 minute to turn on before you can even open the drawer, etc.). I needed to upgrade my universal player, so I thought a matched A100 set would be nice, but if I end up abandoning the AVR-A100, then I'm not as attached to the idea of the DBP-A100.

And on top of everything else, the Springsteen Darkness boxed set is coming out today, and I don't have system to play it on!

I was about ready to purchase the 4311 until I did some reading in this forum. I am trying to determine if there is a buy recommendation or wait until the reported issues are sorted out?

My first A/V receiver(a Pioneer VSX-1018) was purchased approx 2 years ago. I am in the process of doing a complete HT upgrade,a new receiver was recommended as part of that upgrade.

Not having anywhere near the depth of knowledge that many of you have, I based my decision on commercial reviews. The 4311 was touted as a standard barer in terms of performance and feature sets.

So the question is, buy or wait? Being a novice, I have neither the knowledge or background ,so I am respectfully asking your opinions.

Novice or not, reading this thread should tell you to wait (in fact, you likely have to wait, as initial inventory is pretty much gone, and new revisions with possible HW changes have yet to hit resellers AFAIK...)

Help Me Find The Blue Rain

I have the A100 "01015" I have an uncomplicated system at this time. OPPO 83SE, Sony CRT xbr960 and xbr970. No blue rain, no green steaks, no audio drop outs accept when my internet radio buffer falls to 30% or less. I have the original HDMI cable from OPPO going to the receiver. I may have the older 1.1 HDMI going to the TV's unable to tell but they were the older style monster HDMI from 4/5 years ago-. Everything is on default on the receiver as far as I know. I do have to turn my volume way up when I switched out my older analogue stereo Pioneer receiver and processor. When I switch from input to input I only get slight hesitation due to handshakes. There is some form of slight muffled "pop" everytime I do this but that would seem logical. How can I check to see if I have audio drop outs or video problems I have watched Directv HD Net. Awesome picture and more natural like thru the denon video. Blu-Rays still excellent but I like the video processing better in the Denon for some reason on the Sat input, (slightly darker, more richer, faces are more natural). My wife who never comments on my video did notice the more natural looking picture. Doesn't the Denon and OPPO have the same ABT 2010 processor?
-Dave

You can't force yourself to see them. if you have already been using the unit this much, I'd say you are clear of any issues out of the box.

They could always develop later on.