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The Downfall Of Bose... - Page 6

post #151 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWG707 View Post

Just curious, what's your personal experiences with Bose speakers? How many different models have you owned and listened to for extended periods of time? I would like to know where your info comes from.

I've owned Bose 901's and the AM16 in the past.

The great thing about Bose is their resale value

Luckily I went into a real audio store one day and realized what speakers should sound like. I am very happy with my Paradigm speakers now.

Now I will say the Bose speakers didn't sound terrible, it's just that there are so many (much) better options for the same or less money.
post #152 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

Too bad you don't know what your talking about.

He is kinda right man. Bose now makes Home audio speakers in there price point that do not sounds good for that price! When your 601's where out they where priced ok but would you paid $3,000 for your 601's today because that is what Bose would set the price too now. There are million's of better speakers at $3,000 then the 601's! The 901's are like a $200.00 speaker today but Bose puts them in the $1,300 price range and that does not include there metal stands that you need for them! So the price is now $1,500 for $1,500 you can get great audiophiles speakers then a low end audio speaker. My Monitor Audio S2's would crush the 901's and they are priced new in 2003 $740.00 pair. They are smaller then the 901's too! If they priced the 901's today at $200.00, 301's $130.00 and the 201's $95.00 or less people would not talk bad about Bose because in that price range they sound good. If Bose makes a new speaker that is a thousand times better then the 901's then he can price it at $1,000 or more! What was the price of your 601's back then?
post #153 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

I've owned Bose 901's and the AM16 in the past.

The great thing about Bose is their resale value

Luckily I went into a real audio store one day and realized what speakers should sound like. I am very happy with my Paradigm speakers now.

Now I will say the Bose speakers didn't sound terrible, it's just that there are so many (much) better options for the same or less money.

They don't hold there value well look at the 901 it is $1,500 with stands and people sell it for $350.00 too $400.00 with stands! My Monitor Audio S2's are $740.00 new and I can get $400.00 to $500.00 used! 901's on avg used audio should sell half the new price so $750.00 for a 901 on avg but you can't even get that!



http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSE-901-SERIES-...item3a5e475f88

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSE-FLOOR-SPEAK...item23097b4ea4

http://cgi.ebay.com/bose-901s-series...item2c5685869c

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSE-901-Series-...item3cb09a3e70

This guy is sell 3 Bose speaker for $750.00 http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....e-301-201-901-

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....6-Very-Good-Co

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....io-GS10-Cherry

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....&/Thiel-CS2.3-

Half price is avg for audio used Bose can't get that used!
post #154 of 419
Here is the price for the 901's with stands on Bose website. This price does not include tax.

I took a pic of it off there site.
LL
post #155 of 419
Basically Bose are not a wise choice in the bang for buck dept. Then again the same could be said for many speakers. Also many uppity audiophile wannabees want to blow their money. When I hear of people spending 10k on a set of speakers I just have to cringe.
post #156 of 419
Well...sound is in the ear of the beholder. If you don't like something that is fine, for whatever reason. Everyone has a budget, they have to feel good about spending money on anything they buy. There is lots of cool stuff out there that I would like to have that is way out of my budget, but do I bitch about it or run it into the ground because I don't think it is properly priced, I don't. It all boils down to opinion on what sounds good, whether you design them or just listen to them.
post #157 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

Too bad you don't know what your talking about.

I am sure more people would agree with what I said than disagree. Bose sucks ball$, just as my old Kenwood HTiB did...except my Kenwood was a fraction of the price, and were still 3" all-range cubes...

+10 to James
post #158 of 419
Bose might have been doing well, but I would not be surprised to see their sales numbers flagging. The financial crunch has made consumers increasingly more prone to do research. And Internet - which is quickly becoming the primary research tool for many - has very little good to say about Bose. Add to that the proliferation of mobile internet devices allowing a shopper to pull up the needed info right at the store. Paying big $$$ for TV commercials and magazine ads, and having fast-talking salespeople at stores used to do the trick, but these methods are quickly losing relevance.
post #159 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1027 View Post

Basically Bose are not a wise choice in the bang for buck dept. Then again the same could be said for many speakers. Also many uppity audiophile wannabees want to blow their money. When I hear of people spending 10k on a set of speakers I just have to cringe.

Then you have never heard 10k or above speakers. I've got a damn good combo of JBL PT800s mounted to sub1500s(Revel sub15). But compared to a pair of Revel Salon2 (22k/pr), the PT800s aren't even close. And if you would want to really blow your socks and mind off, then there is the JBL K2 9900 @ twice the price of the Salons. Sounds like you're "there"
post #160 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1027 View Post

. When I hear of people spending 10k on a set of speakers I just have to cringe.

Me too, I could get a decent 5 speaker set for around $1k including sub and towers , and still have great sound, I cant even afford 1k, or nything really , which is why I buy used kit.

I have to do yet another woofer replacement on a pair of Cursed Bookshelf speakers. I stuck a slightly undersized duo cone in the cabinet to keep mice from having a go at the insulation, and knackering
the bleed'n crossover.
post #161 of 419
You get what you pay for. If we all had money pouring out our ears it would be different.
post #162 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

You get what you pay for. If we all had money pouring out our ears it would be different.

That is the point with Bose 99% of the time you don't get what you paid for! Dude my wife hates Bose! She will not go in there store it gives her that bad of a headache! Good speakers should not give anyone a Headache! You don't have too be rich too buy a better speaker then Bose.
post #163 of 419
Everyone wants the cheapest they can buy. I mostly read budget related decisions and how expensive Bose is. If cheapest is what dictates, you have to feel good about what your buying and if that means bashing other companies to make you feel good then....
post #164 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

That is the point with Bose 99% of the time you don't get what you paid for! Dude my wife hates Bose! She will not go in there store it gives her that bad of a headache! Good speakers should not give anyone a Headache! You don't have too be rich too buy a better speaker then Bose.

She probably hates Klipsch too then I think some Klipcsh models are great, but many are incredibly fatiguing and bright. My buddies RF-7's give me a headache very easily. Even my Paradigms give me a headache at times. Then again, 110dB+ will do that

I completely agree that you definitely don't get what you pay for with Bose.
post #165 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbunnysoulja View Post

She probably hates Klipsch too then I think some Klipcsh models are great, but many are incredibly fatiguing and bright. My buddies RF-7's give me a headache very easily. Even my Paradigms give me a headache at times. Then again, 110dB+ will do that

I completely agree that you definitely don't get what you pay for with Bose.

I am not a horn guy and my wife does hate the sound of horns too. They are incredibly bright but they are still not as bad as Bose. Bose speakers are really bad at high volume. The sound that Bose puts out at higher volume starts too get really bright and the music gets really mixed together then you start losing instruments and the muddy Bose bass over powers everything in the song. Then the Headache starts in a few second! That is why there demo music is blues and jazz there is not much going on in the song but a guy or girls voice and a guitar or a guy or girls voice with a brass instrument playing. There demo have most music that people don't listen too. Add more then 3 instruments at the same time playing and Bose speakers will turn it in too some noise in a small box or 4 instruments will become 2! Forget Bose for separating voices too if there are two people singing at the same time you will not no it is two people singing!
post #166 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsky HiFi View Post

Everyone wants the cheapest they can buy. I mostly read budget related decisions and how expensive Bose is. If cheapest is what dictates, you have to feel good about what your buying and if that means bashing other companies to make you feel good then....

We are not bashing Bose just saying facts! Hell I just said Horn speakers are bright are we bashing them no it is a fact! Toslink Digital Optical Cable makes movies and music sound bright too that is a fact! I did not bash optical cables there are better cables out there then Optical. Same for Bose there are better speakers out there for the money. For me too say Optical cable is better then bals then that is crazy talk. So saying Bose makes great speakers and is high end that is crazy talk! I had radio shack speakers at one time but I did not go on a forum or talk too people and said I have great Audiophiles speakers. I know radio shack speakers are junk and that was what I could afford at that time but I did not spend $1,000 or more on junk!
post #167 of 419
Hi Tom, I was a Product Specialist for Bose in mid 80's - early 90's. Bose decided the High End Audiophile represented a much smaller portion of the buying public. In an effort to offer products to the 90% or so of the general public they simply went a different direction. As you have probably noticed, most of their products are created around their 4" Speaker which you may recall was a component of the original 901 Series. The 4" Driver is used in their oem Auto Sound, some of their Acoustimass products, The Cinemate, which is for TV connection. The company has grown tremendously since I left them. So, from a Business stand point I think they made the right call. As you know they now have their own Retail Stores, as does Sony. In fact, that is partly to blame for the elimination of my field position. I'm not bitter, in fact I feel fortunate to have spent time with Dr. Bose and the engineering staff for the years I was a part of the company.
post #168 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

Hell I just said Horn speakers are bright are we bashing them no it is a fact! Toslink Digital Optical Cable makes movies and music sound bright too that is a fact!

Neither statement is a fact. You are completely wrong on both counts.
post #169 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryAJ View Post

Hi Tom, I was a Product Specialist for Bose in mid 80's - early 90's. Bose decided the High End Audiophile represented a much smaller portion of the buying public. In an effort to offer products to the 90% or so of the general public they simply went a different direction. As you have probably noticed, most of their products are created around their 4" Speaker which you may recall was a component of the original 901 Series. The 4" Driver is used in their oem Auto Sound, some of their Acoustimass products, The Cinemate, which is for TV connection. The company has grown tremendously since I left them. So, from a Business stand point I think they made the right call. As you know they now have their own Retail Stores, as does Sony. In fact, that is partly to blame for the elimination of my field position. I'm not bitter, in fact I feel fortunate to have spent time with Dr. Bose and the engineering staff for the years I was a part of the company.

So Bose left high end audio but they say they are high end in around about way. Does that sound right? Bose knew they could not keep in the audiophiles game because they suck so they chose too be sell outs like sony!
post #170 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Neither statement is a fact. You are completely wrong on both counts.

I guess you need too do more research then

Do you own Bose?
post #171 of 419
You do know the difference between opinion and fact, right?
post #172 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

I guess you need too do more research then

Many years of researching, designing, measuring and building speakers, many of which have incorporated horns or waveguides have shown that your statement "Horn speakers are bright are we bashing them no it is a fact!" is not a fact. You presenting some engineering data to show the validity of your claim would be nice.

As for "Toslink Digital Optical Cable makes movies and music sound bright too that is a fact!", please present some evidence supporting your assertion taking into account the variations in the transmission medium between coax and plastic fibre Toslink to support your case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

Do you own Bose?

No.
post #173 of 419
You see far too many people out there, and I don't care what side of the fence you are on when it comes to sound believe what they do, and then they think they are the authority or should I say a know-it-all of audio and that simply is not true.
post #174 of 419
Bashing Bose on an audio forum is easy. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I've done it and so have a lot of other people who have come here. It's a nice cushy target for audiophile wannabees. It's safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamespblues View Post

Hell I just said Horn speakers are bright are we bashing them no it is a fact! Toslink Digital Optical Cable makes movies and music sound bright too that is a fact! I did not bash optical cables there are better cables out there then Optical.... For me too say Optical cable is better then bals then that is crazy talk.

Hate to tell you this, but you just jumped out of that nice, cushy, safe bose-bashing wash pot into a very hot frying pan. Hope you have asbestos boots, Jamespblues.
post #175 of 419
Funny how the toes get stepped on and who doesn't like it.
post #176 of 419
Hey Bigsky Hifi, I saw those picture of your 601's, and I have a couple questions for you. Please don't take offense to anything I am going to say, I'm not really a Bose basher, and I don't care about Bose one way or the other, I'm am genuinely curious. I have not seen those speakers before, and their design struck me. I'm not an audiophile, and I don't know much about the fundamentals of speaker design, but they look to me like they would be an awful design as far as directionality goes. They look like they would do well for a monophonic speaker, or a PA speaker, but for a stereo or surround sound system, they seem to be breaking all the rules. If I had to guess based on their appearance, I would say their soundstage would be a complete blur, but it would present an enveloping sound almost like surround sound.

Anyhow, my questions are:
Does their soundstage sound as nebulous as their design suggests?
Have you compared their soundstage to more traditional speaker designs? Am I right in guessing you preferred the 601s?
If you prefer the enveloping sound effect they might have, have you thought about switching over to a matrixed 5.1, 7.1, or 9.1 surround sound system using more traditional speakers?
Also, I don't recognize those subwoofers, what model are those?

Understand I am not trying to knock you or your sound system. If you enjoy your system, nothing else anyone here says matters. Hell, the best speakers to my ears so far were some of the Klipsch heritage lines, and to most around here they would be way too blazing hot.
post #177 of 419
The 601's are a real sweet sounding speaker. The sound stage they give off is nice and deep and wide as well as pin point when called upon. I have a treated room and when doing that I had to be careful with the walls behind the speakers because as you see they use it. I have a 6.1 set up using 6 of these and it sounds amazing, to me. I have two velodynes up front and a sub in the rear I pieced together out of an old Def Tech encloser with a 15" Dayton driver and a Dayton Hps 500 amp. Like I have said I have listened to some very nice systems in the past and wished I had an endless supply of money to throw away, but as it stands I don't. The last speaker I listened to that I really went out of my way to hear were the Wilson Watt/puppy 8's, they are amazing as well. At 28000.00 a pair the setup I listened to came to around a hundred grand, WOW, that was for just two channels. If I ever win the lottery that's the only setup I've come across that I thought I would like to have outside what I've got now.
post #178 of 419
If you want facts, how about these. At a time when most speaker companies are using materials like Ti, Be, Mg, ceramic, kevlar or some other composite to produce superior tweeters, compression drivers and transducers Bose uses none of that. I just looked on their website and saw no mention of materials used in their transducers. Not at all surprising. All the Bose I've seen used paper tweeters, untreated paper transducers.
Guess they figure all that expensive material and transducer design is not needed when they care nothing about producing the entire audio spectrum, only the easy to produce center of the spectrum.
I had a Sears stereo record player in the early '60s, that only used a single 8" transducer/channel that was probably as good as any Bose today. It didn't produce the two ends of the spectrum either, but then it cost well under $100.
post #179 of 419
calling a spade: a spade, isn't bashing...or is it?
post #180 of 419
Twenty some odd years later my 601's still sound great, yes with paper tweeters and drivers. Maybe you don't need all the fancy exotic materials to sound great.
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