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The Downfall Of Bose... - Page 9

post #241 of 416
12/20/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

I think the balanced mode radiator drivers in the Minx speaker systems are better than those of Bose...but if you see the freq response of that system (a lot better than Bose satelitte systems)...it still has some gaps. Again, this might be about as good as a system dependant on 3 inch drivers can get, and considerably better than Bose...but NOT better than a system with bigger drivers, tweeters and a good subwoofer driver.

I think most people will agree that a larger system will produce better quality at higher sound levels in larger rooms. However, in smaller rooms, this may not be as significant, and if you read the reviews you'll see that the Minx system has some admirable qualities, including incredible transparency, spatialality, and tremendous coherency.

Some owners have assembled their own 5.1 system, only by buying the BMRs and going for a different subwoofer, like the Sunfire, which plugs the hole in the Minx' s bass to BMR transition.

There are real advantages to a crossover-less driver, and I think this system is a bit of a game changer.

Of course you could also buy this system for a crazy bundle of money, but it shows what you can do with small speakers.
http://hometheaterreview.com/focal-d...viewed/?page=2
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post #242 of 416
12/20/11 at 1:25pm
I personally do not have any Bose speakers but I was never able to understand why some people get so upset at the very mention of Bose, after all -

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.
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post #243 of 416
12/20/11 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandan123 View Post

I personally do not have any Bose speakers but I was never able to understand
why some people get so upset at the very mention of Bose, after all -

Sometimes, people who have made up their minds about a subject -- e.g., Bose
-- experience an uncontrollable desire to convert others to their religion. At the
worst, really, Bose speakers tend to produce audio which some don't like at a
price some won't pay.

I've never owned anything by Bose, because I've always felt I could get something
I liked better for the same money (or liked the same for less money.) Those
who like Bose probably believe that the price premium I'm not willing to pay is
justified. Is it?
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post #244 of 416
12/20/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dandan123 View Post

I personally do not have any Bose speakers but I was never able to understand why some people get so upset at the very mention of Bose, after all -

I also don't own Bose but am fascinated by the response the subject gets. Every once and a while when one of these threads pops up I'll challenge peoples assertions, e.g. show evidence regarding their marketing budget vs. R&D and how it compares to the industry average within various market segments. It sets people's hair on fire .

I see the anti-Bose people kinda of like the Our Gang of the modern audio era. To become an "audiophile" you need to join the "He Man Bose Haters Club". You are then no longer part of the "Joe Six Pack" crowd, you are indeed special. Special badges are awarded for coming up with clever phrases using the letters B.O.S.E.
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post #245 of 416
12/20/11 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

I also don't own Bose but am fascinated by the response the subject gets. Every once and a while when one of these threads pops up I'll challenge peoples assertions, e.g. show evidence regarding their marketing budget vs. R&D and how it compares to the industry average within various market segments. It sets people's hair on fire .

I see the anti-Bose people kinda of like the Our Gang of the modern audio era. To become an "audiophile" you need to join the "He Man Bose Haters Club". You are then no longer part of the "Joe Six Pack" crowd, you are indeed special. Special badges are awarded for coming up with clever phrases using the letters B.O.S.E.

I don't think anyone who came up with an acronym is angling for an award. For me it was just a goof.

And I don't hate Bose, as I mentioned that the 901s had merit.

But I haven't been impressed with Bose since. Their new soundbar may be interesting.

I also don't think that most posters whose posts I've read (not too many, as I just started reading the thread today) are basing their sense of masculinity on posting on this thread.

I just think that Bose is overpriced for what it is. You don't have to spend a bundle of money to get good sound if you're discerning, which is what the point of this thread is for many posters.
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post #246 of 416
12/20/11 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamilcar Barca View Post

Sometimes, people who have made up their minds about a subject -- e.g., Bose
-- experience an uncontrollable desire to convert others to their religion. At the
worst, really, Bose speakers tend to produce audio which some don't like at a
price some won't pay.

I've never owned anything by Bose, because I've always felt I could get something
I liked better for the same money (or liked the same for less money.) Those
who like Bose probably believe that the price premium I'm not willing to pay is
justified. Is it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

I also don't own Bose but am fascinated by the response the subject gets. Every once and a while when one of these threads pops up I'll challenge peoples assertions, e.g. show evidence regarding their marketing budget vs. R&D and how it compares to the industry average within various market segments. It sets people's hair on fire .

I see the anti-Bose people kinda of like the Our Gang of the modern audio era. To become an "audiophile" you need to join the "He Man Bose Haters Club". You are then no longer part of the "Joe Six Pack" crowd, you are indeed special. Special badges are awarded for coming up with clever phrases using the letters B.O.S.E.

Cracks me up when I see people start shakin' and squirtin' at the mention of Bose. No one is making me spend MY money on something and it's ignorantly presumptuous to ridicule what others do with their money that makes them happy.

The vast majority of people I work with - all well into 6-figure incomes - have little interest or time to spend evaluating audio systems. Further, they have zero interest in cluttering their offices and homes with obtrusive speakers. So when these people look for speakers, Bose is always at the top of the list.
1) It's the most well-known brand.
2) It is small/invisible.
3) To some extent, it's expensive so it must be higher-end.

That's reality....as with most anything, the passionate hobbyists will always see it differently than those to whom the purchase is but an ancillary component to their objective....
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post #247 of 416
12/20/11 at 7:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post

Cracks me up when I see people start shakin' and squirtin' at the mention of Bose. No one is making me spend MY money on something and it's ignorantly presumptuous to ridicule what others do with their money that makes them happy.

The vast majority of people I work with - all well into 6-figure incomes - have little interest or time to spend evaluating audio systems. Further, they have zero interest in cluttering their offices and homes with obtrusive speakers. So when these people look for speakers, Bose is always at the top of the list.
1) It's the most well-known brand.
2) It is small/invisible.
3) To some extent, it's expensive so it must be higher-end.

That's reality....as with most anything, the passionate hobbyists will always see it differently than those to whom the purchase is but an ancillary component to their objective....

I can go with your first two assertions. the third one, not so much.
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post #248 of 416
12/21/11 at 5:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

I see the anti-Bose people kinda of like the Our Gang of the modern audio era. To become an "audiophile" you need to join the "He Man Bose Haters Club".

Poor Darla!
LL
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post #249 of 416
12/21/11 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

I also don't own Bose but am fascinated by the response the subject gets. Every once and a while when one of these threads pops up I'll challenge peoples assertions, e.g. show evidence regarding their marketing budget vs. R&D and how it compares to the industry average within various market segments. It sets people's hair on fire .

I see the anti-Bose people kinda of like the Our Gang of the modern audio era. To become an "audiophile" you need to join the "He Man Bose Haters Club". You are then no longer part of the "Joe Six Pack" crowd, you are indeed special. Special badges are awarded for coming up with clever phrases using the letters B.O.S.E.

Perhaps we get indignant because we don't like it when consumers are lied to and ripped off?
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post #250 of 416
12/21/11 at 8:48am
[quote=David James;21376301]I also don't own Bose but am fascinated by the response the subject gets. Every once and a while when one of these threads pops up I'll challenge peoples assertions, e.g. show evidence regarding their marketing budget vs. R&D and how it compares to the industry average within various market segments. It sets people's hair on fire .

QUOTE]

David, just curious, where did you find this info on marketing vs R&D dollars spent? Seeing that Bose is a privately held company, that info would be confidential.
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post #251 of 416
12/24/11 at 12:37pm
I was in BB this am and looking at an I-Pod speaker setup for my daughter. The sales person at BB said the Logitech was good, but not as good as the BOSE. I asked him if he knew what BOSE meant and he said no, so I quoted someone above...Buy Other Stereo Equipment and he laughed!

Jeff
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post #252 of 416
12/24/11 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pronghorn/az View Post

I was in BB this am and looking at an I-Pod speaker setup for my daughter. The sales person at BB said the Logitech was good, but not as good as the BOSE. I asked him if he knew what BOSE meant and he said no, so I quoted someone above...Buy Other Stereo Equipment and he laughed!

Jeff

jeff, hilarious...I'm at my dad's now, watching my Birds play well for nothing. He has a Bose 5.1 set up and it blows ass. But I can't knock their hustle, they are loaded, even if it's built on a bunch of lies....
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post #253 of 416
12/24/11 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagorep View Post


David, just curious, where did you find this info on marketing vs R&D dollars spent? Seeing that Bose is a privately held company, that info would be confidential.

I don't know about David, but I know people who work at Bose and they confirm this. Those full page ads that appear in the magazine sections of virtually every Sunday paper nationwide and those in virtually every magazine published don't come cheap. Neither do TV ads, and when's the last time you saw one for anyone but Bose? And old Amar didn't get to be a billionaire-yes, spelled with a 'B'- by shaving his profit margins to the bone.
I wouldn't classify Bose as being any worse than any other speakers of the same size. But they're no better either. Some things the laws of physics just won't allow.
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post #254 of 416
12/24/11 at 7:34pm
The Bose may be no worse or no better but they are way more expensive!

Merry Christmas to you BFM!
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post #255 of 416
12/24/11 at 7:57pm
I don't care if people buy Bose. I do care when people buy something and they think it's the best and have done no research. I have a friend who is a millionaire. He bought Bose because it's the best. That's what annoys me. People assume something is top of the line because it is expensive and well known. Good for Bose though... They are the best example I can think of that shows what marketing can do for you.
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post #256 of 416
12/24/11 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagorep View Post

David, just curious, where did you find this info on marketing vs R&D dollars spent? Seeing that Bose is a privately held company, that info would be confidential.

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was saying others have made those claims and I challenged them to provide evidence. Typically what I'll see in response is like what Bill posted. Such anecdotes are evidence.
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post #257 of 416
12/24/11 at 10:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

Perhaps we get indignant because we don't like it when consumers are lied to and ripped off?

Can you cite the specific lies and support it with evidence?

As for ripped off, I assume you mean your belief that the Bose speakers are more expensive then you feel they should be as opposed to anything criminal. If so, meh, this whole industry is about preying on a gullible public. The key is walking the line between marketing fluff and specific measurable claims.

I don't know that Bose does it any more then most. That doesn't make it right, but people spend $1,000+ on a DAC. At least with Bose you can hear the difference.
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post #258 of 416
12/25/11 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by David James View Post

At least with Bose you can hear the difference.

I'm unsure what you mean there. Compared to other speakers with the same size and form factor, like those from Cambridge Audio for instance, Bose are no better, though they are more expensive. Compared to other speakers at the same price point Bose are decidedly inferior.
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post #259 of 416
12/25/11 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

I'm unsure what you mean there. Compared to other speakers with the same size and form factor, like those from Cambridge Audio for instance, Bose are no better, though they are more expensive. Compared to other speakers at the same price point Bose are decidedly inferior.

Bose uses really bad drivers for all their products. Yet they are tremendous at marketing.
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post #260 of 416
12/25/11 at 8:24am
The Logitech was $120. The nearest price on the BOSE models was $250. Double the price. I feel it's our responsibility to educate those who DON'T know any better. Again, a guy bought a Blu Ray player and had a (not monster thankfully!)Dynex HDMI wire that was $20. I told him about Monoprice and what I paid for 3 HDMI wires, almost the same as what he spent. He assured me he would check it out.

Jeff
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post #261 of 416
1/3/12 at 11:31am
I too, used to own bose, back when I did not know any better. It was a pair of their original 10.2's. I thought they were the schiznet when I bought them (used) in 1989 for $400. They were some of their best speakers, each one weighed 70 (!) pounds. They served a purpose, and were efficient, only needed a few watts, and thus a cheapie receiver would do.

Once I got back into DIY did I realize how much they sucked. And did they ever. Holes in the spectrum that no eq could fill. They sat in my garage for years, and once I got curious to see what made them tick. They used actual speaker voice coils in their crossovers for inductors. *Really* thin wire in those. Current limiting via a light bulb.
Best part: Years later I put them up for sale, and got about what I paid for them.

I have no idea how I found this thread or even read it, but there you go!
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post #262 of 416
1/4/12 at 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpnblues View Post

...Whatever happened to Bose? I can remember when the 901 series speakers (among some others) were very highly thought of by the audiophile community in general.
I've been out of touch with the audiophile world since the late '70s. I've been trying to get up to speed on the latest in high quality home audio (I just ordered a complete SVS speaker system) and have recently realized how much Bose is now loathed. Whatever happened? Was it a downturn in quality? Did they start cutting corners to increase revenues? What happened to tarnish their rep so badly? Just curious.


Tom

They switched from trying to make stuff that actually good for the money spent (comparatively speaking then vs now) to using their name to sell vastly over priced stuff. IMHO sound quality is vastly inferior to comparably priced stuff.....
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post #263 of 416
1/4/12 at 10:15am
This is the thread that just keeps on giving...

Actually, for those who think all products made by Bose are crap, check out the soundbar forum. One of the resident soundbar experts, davyo, has purchased one and gives it really good reviews!
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post #264 of 416
1/4/12 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post

This is the thread that just keeps on giving...

Actually, for those who think all products made by Bose are crap, check out the soundbar forum. One of the resident soundbar experts, davyo, has purchased one and gives it really good reviews!

A soundbar? Really? It may work well enough for what it is, but for the price one can get a good complete 5.1 system. And I have no doubt that there must be other soundbars that work at least as well for half the price.
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post #265 of 416
1/4/12 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

A soundbar? Really? It may work well enough for what it is, but for the price one can get a good complete 5.1 system. And I have no doubt that there must be other soundbars that work at least as well for half the price.

Let's just see it as the people who know they can get 5.1 but still prefer the aesthetics of a soundbar. According to the reviewer here he said as time passed by he found the bose one to be better sounding. Maybe bose is finally making decent sq products but still need to learn how to price em right. Saw one at the bose store and was shocked at the price lol
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post #266 of 416
1/4/12 at 12:39pm
Has Blose been mentioned before?
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post #267 of 416
1/4/12 at 1:16pm
A guy I work with (who is a blowhard anyways) has a "brother who works for BOSE"...you should hear the **** this guy spreads.

If I pressed him I am pretty sure he would say a set of them cured cancer in a guy.
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post #268 of 416
1/4/12 at 2:09pm
I don't think davyo was intending to compare a Bose SOUNDBAR to a 5.1 system...he simply said he has heard a lot of soundbars and this one (Bose Cinemate 1SR, I think) is as good/better than other soundbars, even some pretty pricey ones (like the Yamaha ysb).
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post #269 of 416
1/4/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FieldingMelish View Post

Has Blose been mentioned before?

What is that? White van version of bose?
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post #270 of 416
1/4/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchyfrogs View Post

A guy I work with (who is a blowhard anyways) has a "brother who works for BOSE"...you should hear the **** this guy spreads.

If I pressed him I am pretty sure he would say a set of them cured cancer in a guy.

Do tell!
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