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Best PJ with Sharpness and Color Detail for under $10K??

post #1 of 66
9/6/10 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
I went to one of my local shops here in El Paso and had a chance to compare the Epson 9000UB and the Anthem 500LX. I have to say, I was not overly impressed with either. I mean, they were both really nice, but I guess it wasn't the type of picture I had in mind when I started looking. They had them playing in a dedicated room on a 133" stewart firehawk screen. (For the record, I had him reduce the zoom to give as close to a 120" picture as he could estimate.)

The difference between the two were obvious. The color and black levels on the Anthem were better than the epson, but not significantly. They only thing I did not like about either pj was that the picture did not seem very sharp. It wasnt really crisp like I am used to with my Samsung plasma. (PN58B850)

On they other hand, they had a Sony pj (not sure of the model number but retaild around $3500) it is was playing on a 110 Draper Onix screen and it looked much more crisp and detailed... But as soon as he turned on ANY light, it got washed out quickly...

What is the best I can do as far as crisp, sharp picture with great colors without spending over $10k? I would like a 120" electric screen in a room with some ambient light. I would love to have the Samsung A900B, but people are not recommending the ones sold online for $3499. How about a BenQ W6000? Mitsu 6800?

Also, would it help if I had a Da-Lite HP screen for a PJ with less lumens? Or would a Firehawk or Draper screen work better? So many questions...


Someone please help. All the reading I have done has just got me more confused.
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post #2 of 66
9/6/10 at 6:00pm
if sharp is what you are after, then samsung a900b or vango led. i would get the vango if it was me.
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post #3 of 66
9/6/10 at 6:32pm
Go look at a DLP and you would be impressed. Try and find a Marantz on display and you will not be disappointed. I went through the same thing you went through when I went looking. I was lucky and had a local dealer with a JVC RS25 and a Marantz Vp-11S2 on display and it was easy for me to see the differences.
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post #4 of 66
9/6/10 at 7:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

if sharp is what you are after, then samsung a900b or vango led. i would get the vango if it was me.

I would love to be able to afford the Vango. (May have to save up for that for quite a while.)

The Samsung is a great deal, but I am not sure if the refurbished A900B is a bad idea or not. Any information for me on this?

The only other thing I have really been considering is the BenQ W6000 but I am not sure if that is even in the same league.
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post #5 of 66
9/6/10 at 9:29pm
Have you considered Runco's version of the Planar 8150 or the Infocus SP8602? The Runco is the better unit and it is south of $10K, but more than a refurb A900B, and it is better than a W6000. The question is whether the Runco has enough lumens for your needs. The Infocus could be had for close to the price of the A900B, but it would be inferior is some ways, but in ways that matter to you? Your post provides little guidance to determine the answers to these questions. Your questions about the screens muddies the waters further.
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post #6 of 66
9/6/10 at 11:14pm
I wish I had a $10k budget. I'd get the Epson EH-R2000 or EH-R4000 LCOS projectors that come out in October or November. $4,500 and $7,500 or less and maybe cheaper online. They look pretty good on youtube videos. Hopefully affordable in 2012. I'm tired of crappy cinema grey filters on displays. They're getting the Dark Knight closer to the picture I saw at an IMAX theater. Also, people said the Mitsubishi HC 9000 and Sony VPL-VW90ES looked really good for around $7-8,000. Ones that haven't been displayed yet but are coming out soon are the JVC 450 and 1050 and Epson 9700UB and 8700UB. It's really embarassing I know all this stuff about projectors I can't afford, lol. Maybe the 8700UB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AYUmFFEe4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skEd1vHBUZk

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1272649
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post #7 of 66
9/7/10 at 3:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Have you considered Runco's version of the Planar 8150 or the Infocus SP8602? The Runco is the better unit and it is south of $10K, but more than a refurb A900B, and it is better than a W6000. The question is whether the Runco has enough lumens for your needs. The Infocus could be had for close to the price of the A900B, but it would be inferior is some ways, but in ways that matter to you? Your post provides little guidance to determine the answers to these questions. Your questions about the screens muddies the waters further.

I understand that my screen questions really make things more difficult to determine what my true needs are. I do have some ambient light that enters the room form the sides, but I have no way to determine how much light that actually is. My plan is to alleviate as muc of that light as possible through blackout curtains in other rooms inthe house (that allow light in). My only other concerns are how to darken my sky lights (in other rooms but allow light to enter my living room from the side, and wondering how much light will be reflected from my white ceiling (even though it is 10 ft high). I have a picture of my room here:



Please note thatthe lights are on and the blinds open. Niether of whch will be the case during the use of the PJ.
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post #8 of 66
9/7/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

I would love to be able to afford the Vango. (May have to save up for that for quite a while.)

The Samsung is a great deal, but I am not sure if the refurbished A900B is a bad idea or not. Any information for me on this?

The only other thing I have really been considering is the BenQ W6000 but I am not sure if that is even in the same league.

You asked for a sub-$10K budget but then can't afford the Vango that is right there? Guess I am confused - what is your actual budget?

The online retailer offered to me that they would extend the warranty even on refurbished to 1 year. I don't know how reputable they are etc but just saying.....

Also don't know if an 3rd party warranty would work

Finally I would look at some of the new ones coming out this year. The Epson's are very promising from the initial reviews read the IFA thread to see the comments and numbers
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post #9 of 66
9/7/10 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Sub 10K is what I want to spend. I really do nto want to spend that much on a PJ. but if there is absolutely nothing even close to as good, then I may be stuck... I really do want that PJ, but I am also hopeing the A900B is a possibility. Not a whole lot of info on that PJ around here though. Wondering how it compares lumens wise, and pq wise to the Vango...
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post #10 of 66
9/7/10 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

if sharp is what you are after, then samsung a900b or vango led. i would get the vango if it was me.

Agreed. But in general DLP is probably the best option. One of the advantages of the LED based DLP's is no color wheel...
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post #11 of 66
9/7/10 at 6:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Sub 10K is what I want to spend. I really do nto want to spend that much on a PJ. but if there is absolutely nothing even close to as good, then I may be stuck... I really do want that PJ, but I am also hopeing the A900B is a possibility. Not a whole lot of info on that PJ around here though. Wondering how it compares lumens wise, and pq wise to the Vango...

Sorry to chirp in again, but honestly wait like 2 weeks. All the new projectors are coming out within the next month.

There is a JVC 1050HD/3D, 450HD/3D and Epson 8700UB coming out very soon.

They'll probably cost $5,500 then $4,000 then $2,000 on the internet. Whatever you want to spend. I also mentioned the Epson Epson EH-R2000 and EH-R4000 as well although that might be the european model number. Just get a JVC or Epson LCOS projector and be happy.


If anything, I don't think anyone would recommend getting anything more expensive than the JVC 1050HD unless you want to lose thousands of dollars in a year or two from massive deprecation. I assume $8,000 retail and $5,500 online price.
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post #12 of 66
9/8/10 at 2:15pm
Runco LS-5. See WSR quote in PD1850 thread. $6995. Call Jason for best price.
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post #13 of 66
9/9/10 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
Someone just recommended the InFocus SP8602. Is that something to consider?
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post #14 of 66
9/9/10 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Someone just recommended the InFocus SP8602. Is that something to consider?

Certainly!!
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post #15 of 66
9/10/10 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
OK. I think I have decided between 3 projectors. Can someone give me the pros/cons to them?

1. Benq W6000 - Nice sharp picture and brightness for days! Also the cheapest of the DLP's by far!!


2: InFocus SP8602 - Great picture, great brightness, but over twice the price of the BenQ. Is it worth it?


3: Samsung A900B - Supposedly the best picture on the market for a single bulb DLP. Not sure about the lumens output though...


Will be watching mostly movies in a room with some ambient light (not too much) but would love to be able to watch football on it as well... too much to ask for?
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post #16 of 66
9/10/10 at 6:31pm
vivitek h5080. just got one, very bright, extremely sharp, decent frame insertion system. had jvc, sony ruby, the black given up is more than compensated by the brightness, sharpness and very good color. the price makes it an easy choice.
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post #17 of 66
9/10/10 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

Sub 10K is what I want to spend. I really do nto want to spend that much on a PJ. but if there is absolutely nothing even close to as good, then I may be stuck... I really do want that PJ, but I am also hopeing the A900B is a possibility. Not a whole lot of info on that PJ around here though. Wondering how it compares lumens wise, and pq wise to the Vango...

Well the confusing part is intro pricing on the Vango is sub $10k, not much but it is less..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrunr View Post

OK. I think I have decided between 3 projectors. Can someone give me the pros/cons to them?

1. Benq W6000 - Nice sharp picture and brightness for days! Also the cheapest of the DLP's by far!!


2: InFocus SP8602 - Great picture, great brightness, but over twice the price of the BenQ. Is it worth it?


3: Samsung A900B - Supposedly the best picture on the market for a single bulb DLP. Not sure about the lumens output though...


Will be watching mostly movies in a room with some ambient light (not too much) but would love to be able to watch football on it as well... too much to ask for?

The problem is you're well into price vs performance topic which is 100% you, nobody can make that decision for you. I had a BenQ W5000 (still have actually) and replaced it with a Planar 8150. The Planar (now Runco LS5) is "significantly" better IMO than the BenQ. I haven't followed the W6000 but I'd be surprised if it's significantly different/better than the W5000.

Personally I'd say your best options are the Vango, Runco LS5 or Samsung. And if you rule out the Vango, then you might as well sit tight and see what comes from CEDIA. We already know some interesting stuff will be announced (JVC's 3D machines, Sim2 and ProjectionDesign have 2.35:1 native DLPs coming) so there may be interesting stuff for you.

But everything I've heard about the LED DLPs is that they're truly something special, if you can find one to see, I'd make an effort before you decide.
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post #18 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:09pm
Having owned the Runco LS5 I would say the Marantz is better in everyway. The Marantz has a sharper picture with better blacks and doesn't have the crazy iris that the LS5 has. My LS5 also went back to Runco twice for repair. The Runco is also a lot of plastic and doesn't feel like quality like the Marantz.

I have never seen a Samsung but they sure have a lot of refribs on the net? I'm not sure it has the best picture of a single chip DLP. The Marantz Vp-11S2 is considered a reference DLP projector. Both are some of the very best though and would make anybody happy.
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post #19 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:13pm
yes the 11s2 is amazing, but i dont think it has the power to light up 120". calibrated is, if i remember correctly, 500 lumens or less.

even the planar/runco ls5 doesn't have the power for that size screen imo.
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post #20 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:27pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for that reply stranger89. That was very informative! I would LOVE th Vango but it is incredibly expensive for an Army guy... (unless Jason wants to take care of this Soldier in an EXTREMELY generous way...lol jk)

I am trying to figure out where the law of diminishing returns plays into the equation. The BenQ is $2100. The infocus is $4000. The Samsung is $5000. (Vango is $10,000)

I am unable to audition an LED pj. All I do know is I like DLP...
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post #21 of 66
9/10/10 at 8:30pm
I have never known a buyer of an InFocus product who regretted the purchase. InFocus projectors are known to have the finest picture out-of-the-box without calibration! I would vote for InFocus.

(Owner of six InFocus projectors over the years)
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post #22 of 66
9/10/10 at 11:35pm
Having seen each I would rate them this way, first to last. Samsung 900b(great uniformity, shadow detail and low APL sharpness, razor crisp and clean image) and Marantz 11s2(great with calibration, good blacks I believe due to reduced lumens to start with, but good none the less, very pure and deep image). Then the Runco based only on viewing the Planar. I suspect I may like the Infocus as much as the Runco. Don't know. Never seen it. Last the BENQ which is basically a w5000b with good firmware and a more agressive DI. Still a quality image but not with refurb Samsungs going for $3500. If the the Marantz was brighter it would be closer. Samsung is closer to the Runco's light. If your really pinched on price, check out the Samsung 800b. You can find refurbs on all Marantz and Samsungs.
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post #23 of 66
9/11/10 at 12:36am
Thread Starter 
You guys have compared the marantz, the runco, the sammy, benq, and the planar. Where does the Infocus come in?
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post #24 of 66
9/11/10 at 1:45am
Maybe you should ask how many of these could handle a 120" + screen first. I think you would find it may narrow that felid down a bit. Looks like your down to a good short list, only thing left is to see them for yourself and make a choice based on your needs and what you like.
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post #25 of 66
9/11/10 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtdking View Post

Having owned the Runco LS5 I would say the Marantz is better in everyway. The Marantz has a sharper picture with better blacks and doesn't have the crazy iris that the LS5 has. My LS5 also went back to Runco twice for repair. The Runco is also a lot of plastic and doesn't feel like quality like the Marantz.

And the Maratz is what 3x the price of the Planar/Runco, like $15k? I'd expect it to be overall better. Not sure I buy better blacks and my 8150 doesn't have a "crazy" iris, mine is very effective. Can you even get a Marantz anymore? I though they were not for sale, you'd have hunt down a used one I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thenorthlander View Post

Maybe you should ask how many of these could handle a 120" + screen first. I think you would find it may narrow that felid down a bit. Looks like your down to a good short list, only thing left is to see them for yourself and make a choice based on your needs and what you like.

As a data point, I run my 8150 on a 110x46" ("120 inch") scope screen. The material is SMX which is spec'd at 1.16x gain, but I've seen people report measuring as low as .84. IMO it's plenty bright.
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post #26 of 66
9/11/10 at 7:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

And the Maratz is what 3x the price of the Planar/Runco, like $15k? I'd expect it to be overall better. Not sure I buy better blacks and my 8150 doesn't have a "crazy" iris, mine is very effective. Can you even get a Marantz anymore? I though they were not for sale, you'd have hunt down a used one I think.

I'm not sure if these can be purchased new anymore, but Marantz still lists both the 11S2 and the 15S1 as current products on their website. Of course, Pioneer still lists all of their 9G Kuros on their website too, and those have been unavailable new (in any significant number at a reasonable price, anyways) for a year now.
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post #27 of 66
9/11/10 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtdking View Post

Go look at a DLP and you would be impressed. Try and find a Marantz on display and you will not be disappointed. I went through the same thing you went through when I went looking. I was lucky and had a local dealer with a JVC RS25 and a Marantz Vp-11S2 on display and it was easy for me to see the differences.

Do you have bat-cave like conditions, mtdking? The OP said he had ambient light issues, and I think he may be reading a lot of positive things about some of the best DLPs in this thread and not realizing his mileage will vary A LOT if he installs a high ANSI DLP projector like the ones mentioned in this thread in a room with ambient light issues. He may end up with only 100 ANSI in a weak room.

Jrunr, the latest JVCs are reported to be sharp enough. I recommend JVC if you cannot create a bat cave.
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post #28 of 66
9/11/10 at 8:46am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the recommendation. This is also why I am trying to find PJ with a lot of lumens as well. I know nothing is a true substitute for a completely dark room, so I need to find out what works best given my current situation.
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post #29 of 66
9/11/10 at 8:56am
My Marantz is on a Carada BW 126" 16x9 and I even run my Lamp on Econ. It doesn't seam to have any problems lighting it and is brighter then my old JVC RS20. Now my projector is calibrated with Iris fully open so I do get closer to 750 Lumens. The colors have more pop then the LS5 also but the depth of the picture is amazing.

But at this price it would be foolish to buy before you can see them.
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post #30 of 66
9/11/10 at 9:01am
BTW if you can't create a dark room or bat cave then don't even bother buying a reference projector. You will never see what they can do. I learned that the hard way and when I redid my room to get rid of reflections then I then saw what these top end projectors can do. I would buy one of those new huge plasma's if it was going into a family room with bright ceilings and bright walls.
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