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Is the Dirac Research AP20 a SOTA SSP? - Page 3

post #61 of 785
Well, there is no stereo surround channels in ex, the new 7.1 mixes being the exception.

If you want to matrix a stereo real two channels, you could get a matrix mixer, in this case a digital one and mix new stereo rears from the back sides and the single ex center, that is what DPL2x seems to be doing with some decorrelation ( which I despise from the thx years). So for 5.1 to 7.1 expansion with additional kit you could have something perhaps better than dpl2x. Who knows? What is important here is the incredible specifications and that there are a couple of solutions for the rear back. And yes the display on the thing is spectacular.

Regards!!
post #62 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If you want to matrix a stereo real two channels, you could get a matrix mixer, in this case a digital one and mix new stereo rears from the back sides and the single ex center, that is what DPL2x seems to be doing with some decorrelation ( which I despise from the thx years).

PLIIx does not create the rear outputs from the side and center signals. All four surrounds are derived directly (logic steered) from the Ls/Rs input.

Also, there is no decorrelation in PLIIx--I made sure of that.
post #63 of 785
You go Roger.
post #64 of 785
I had a couple of bumps in the road trying out different hdmi sources with the Datasat.

I will double check later, no free meals in this industry, may have to go back to tact.
post #65 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

I had a couple of bumps in the road trying out different hdmi sources with the Datasat.

I will double check later, no free meals in this industry, may have to go back to tact.

Just curious, but why not use the ADA? It seems tailor made for these ultimately configurable installations, has all the decoders one could want, and has excellent PEQ facilities onboard.
post #66 of 785
The ADA is a great piece no doubt. I have decided to stick to the end with the DIRAC, I like the digital output possibility to use a snake to a dac, and the features... while laking some others are a jewel. I have work arounds for them missing in action ones.

It turns out that 3-D does not pass through, and this piece is strictly a 7.1 Multichannel LPCM thing. So do not put bit-streaming players through it or a 3-D Frame Packed signal and you will be fine.
post #67 of 785









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post #68 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Just curious, but why not use the ADA? It seems tailor made for these ultimately configurable installations, has all the decoders one could want, and has excellent PEQ facilities onboard.

Ok I will throw in the towel, my appetite for punishment is decreasing, spoke to Richard.

Thanks to you and neil, and mike about the analog audio, and just about (yes Dr. Marderosian too) every other person that suggested I make my life easy.


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post #69 of 785
That cool looking Dolby box is gone too...

So you are going to run balanced audio lines from the speaker amp rack to the electronic [processing] rack?

When?

My son gets he knee operated on Jan 7. [I will miss CES] but will have some free time after Christmas!
post #70 of 785
Turns out the the AP20 got a firmware upgrade adding a bunch of goodies, including matrix surround and dlpl2 processing and many other things.....

It stays...
post #71 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Turns out the the AP20 got a firmware upgrade adding a bunch of goodies, including matrix surround and dlpl2 processing and many other things.....

Is there a complete goodies list somewhere? I could not find mention of it at the website.
post #72 of 785
Also it appears the it's dolby digital and not dpl2 sorry.

1. Dolby Digital Decoder. Incorporates the Dolby Digital decoding on any HDMI, S/PDIF TosLink, or S/PDIF coax
inputs. When a Dolby Digital stream is detected the AP20 automatically decodes the input and places the audio
onto the first 6 internal AP20 channels. The internal channel assignment is Ch1-Left, Ch2-Right, Ch3-Center, Ch4-
LFE, Ch5-Left Surround and Ch6-Right Surround.
2. Optical Film Card. This software version has setup and configuration menus for the AP20 optical film card,
which is an optional card available from DataSat Digital Entertainment that allows it to process audio for 35mm
film projectors with a standard optical sound head. Once the AP20 has the optical film card has been installed you
can create any format with the optical film card as an input source. The format option menus can be used to select
between mono, A, or SR film formats, as well as matrix decoder and optical bass extension options.
The film Setup menus are accessed by first entering the Format Options screen, then selecting the “Setup”
navigation button on the bottom of the screen. The optical film setup menus include optical gain adjustment, slit
loss EQ, azimuth display and optical bass extension parameters. The Optical film setup parameters are a global
configuration so they can be set once and apply to all optical card formats. See TN-H457 technical notice for
additional details.
3. Automation configuration. All of the screens used for configuring the automation were revised to improve the
automation setup process for ease and speed. See the AP20 V1.2 manual for details on operating the new menus.
In addition to the improved look, these features were added:
post #73 of 785
Ahh, thanks for all that. I still don't see the point of it in a home system. It doesn't decode all required codecs, and EQ is readily available elsewhere, sometimes together in the same unit like the ADA.
post #74 of 785
If you have a digital cinema server it inputs and outputs 16 channel digital audio,it has volume control of the digital audio channels, it also has a global independent 67 (or is it 82?) global delay which is needed with dci content. It is going to do some matrixing on the back channels after all.

Yes the ada is a great way to go.
post #75 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

If you have a digital cinema server it inputs and outputs 16 channel digital audio,it has volume control of the digital audio channels, it also has a global independent 67 (or is it 82?) global delay which is needed with dci content. It is going to do some matrixing on the back channels after all..

How do you get BD lossless onto the digital server? And if not, how do you play BDs without another A-D? Or is BD not important?
post #76 of 785
hdmi, Roger I will not answer any other hdmi output format questions, sorry.

Thank you for not asking , because that is the beauty of this system that it can be upsampled to 192 and sent to a super high quality dac. So it is really bad ass studio quality in that way.
post #77 of 785
Say no more....

post #78 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

hdmi, Roger I will not answer any other hdmi output format questions, sorry.

Thank you for not asking , because that is the beauty of this system that it can be upsampled to 192 and sent to a super high quality dac. So it is really bad ass studio quality in that way.

Hope he also doesn't ask why anyone would want to upsample to 192 other than for marketing reasons .
post #79 of 785
Cause the drop down applet is there.

Perhaps LOL. Only an AB test could proclaim either way.
post #80 of 785
This surround processor was shown at the show. Afaic the Dirac processor handed the trinnov, the Audyssey pro, the tact, and the jbl system their collective butts, who knew? we had the worlds finest processor right in our lab!

Great imaging, time domain space correction, smooth very notable fatigue free enhancement. Kal should have stopped by.

I am going to invite the director of DIRAC research to this thread for him to explain the priority heirachy of processing asset-allocation methodology they use.

Essentially you want to have a really good room to start with, because the DIRAC is going to identify all the time domain problems in the room automatically with multiple reading more than 10. Each pass takes 28 seconds, it accumulaates prodigious amounts of detail, IT's resolution appears to be best in class, certainly the resolution and smothness as showns with a classic ess pair of speakers and center channel and 2 floor-standing single emitt home theater 5.1 rig it made a HUGE DIFFERENCE, not like the mild difference in the ADA, THIS PROCESSOR HAD THE HIGHEST SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO and the improvements positioned instruments in 3=D space fixing the time domain ISSUES OF THE ROOM and standing waves and so on.

THIS IS THE REAL MCCOY and Roger and Kal are wrong to dismiss the piece (or to choose to ignore it) as it is the only one studio grade that I have heard.
post #81 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post
THIS IS THE REAL MCCOY and Roger and Kal are wrong to dismiss the piece (or to choose to ignore it) as it is the only one studio grade that I have heard.
Whatever gave you the impression that I was dismissing it? I'm merely observing its shortcomings as it relates with alternatives--like no internal decoding or HDMI input, stuff like that.
post #82 of 785
It has hdmi input. It will have dts internal decoding, but the calibration part is very effective, whereas the others are still trying.
post #83 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

This surround processor was shown at the show. Afaic the Dirac processor handed the trinnov, the Audyssey pro, the tact, and the jbl system their collective butts...

Your lab? Did you set up and compare every system in the same room with the same speakers?

Otherwise there's not a valid base of comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

Great imaging, time domain space correction....

How did the improvement hold up as you moved around the listening area?
post #84 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Your lab? Did you set up and compare every system in the same room with the same speakers?

Otherwise there's not a valid base of comparison.



How did the improvement hold up as you moved around the listening area?

Hi Noah happy new year. I am not going to get into the technicalities (my lab is a videolab but i have that surround processor in it-that is all).

That the Dirac effect absolutely kills everything else I heard IT ABSOLUTELY DOES. These poeople should take way more care in setup at the shows if they are trying to sell something, TO MY EARS the Dirac is king, i will let the developers explain the methodology, but this forum is notorious for wild gazele like pack-hopping, first it was the audyssey then now everyone is pack-hopping to the trinnov (based on some rather incomplete demoes) while the speaker repositioning in the trinov is noble and very promising from a room eq mode the Dirac won.Maybe it was the absence of ad/da conversion sections, to my ears the DIRAC seems like the most complete finished product at the moment.

It's resolution is significantly higher than the audissey and it sounds way more smoother and defined in 3-D space, also any electrostatic speaker sibilancy were eliminated. All in all a night and day comparison, not so with the other new unit.

I did sit down in a chair and stood around the chair, but I believe that is how the microphones were placed during calibration.
post #85 of 785
OK....but it sounds like you now want the pack to descend on the Dirac.

"Did you set up and compare every system in the same room with the same speakers?"

I take it the answer is no.
post #86 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

while the speaker repositioning in the trinov is noble and very promising from a room eq mode the Dirac won

"Won" where? It's not like the two were pitted against each other in a controlled comparison (like the one Harman conducted) at any point.
post #87 of 785
with the systems off both systems sounded sibilant, edgy and more 2 dimensional, the trinov still did not fix the RBH's tininess whilst the dirac really made a huge improvement on the ess's speakers edgy metalic sound making them sound rounded and warn with great temporal detail.
post #88 of 785
There were 4 eq systems, the audissey in the wisdom room, the deq which I did not hear, the ada, the best thing that room had going for it was the surround channel matrixing, also the speaker repositioning was there ( a bit) but the eq left me a bit underwhelmed, the repositioning of the image in 3-D space did not happen everything was coming out of a wall, with the dirac the instruments from a band positioned themselves in the room with good solid imaging, furthermore (probably the RBH metal cones ) the processor did not fix the metallic sound of these speakers which I guess I should add to the do not buy list, remisniscent of the revel (but at least the class d mark levinson took the edge of the revel -and the detail too), I guess metal cones suck to me.

The Dirac processor will be sold as a stand alone for 2,995 by the guy that designed the ap-20 for DTS.

Karl Huff (former DTS engineer) KAD Karlton Audio Designs

carl.huff@yahoo.com

805-300-5243










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post #89 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

OK....but it sounds like you now want the pack to descend on the Dirac.

"Did you set up and compare every system in the same room with the same speakers?"

I want the truth, is that much to ask for?
post #90 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by CINERAMAX View Post

THIS IS THE REAL MCCOY and Roger and Kal are wrong to dismiss the piece (or to choose to ignore it) as it is the only one studio grade that I have heard.

I neither dismissed it nor ignored it. Due to communication/scheduling problems, I missed it even though I had intended to visit.
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