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Is the Dirac Research AP20 a SOTA SSP? - Page 26

post #751 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

You have full control over the speaker correction limits in the DEQX both in terms of frequency response and upper and lower correction frequencies. You could have a +10dB correction if you wanted.

There is no target curve for speaker correction because it is assumed that you want to correct the speaker's nearfield response to be a flat line.

You can tailor the overall response back at the listening position as much as you want after that using the parametric EQ. You could add a 15dB cut at 20kHz and a 10dB boost at 20Hz if you wanted.
Thanks for the clarification, Nyal. IME with Tact/Trinnov, using PEQ ex post facto doesn't sound nearly as "clean" as baking the same correction into the initial set of filters (target curve, in my case). I use it principally for quick tweaks to fix minor album-by-album FR variance.
post #752 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Above this region what you hear is dominated by the speakers, in particular the spectral response of their first reflections (side walls, ceiling, floor, back wall, etc). If you are running full range room correction you are really correcting the speakers and there is virtually no way of knowing what you should be correcting to. All speakers will have a slightly different spectral response of their first reflections so the question is what should the target curve be? The only real way you can properly set the target curve is to measure the speakers anechoically and the only company I know who does this is JBL Synthesis. When you run the 'room correction (ARCHOS)' the processor has the anechoic measurements of the JBL speakers in it so it knows what it should be correcting to.

If it would be true that what we hear "is dominated by the speakers, in particular the spectral response of their first reflections" then no prior knowledge of the speaker's directivity is required. Simply measure the in-room response at the listening position and correct only within the period of time in which the room's specific first reflection pattern develops.
post #753 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

I'm not sure I would use the word "useless", but it certainly is of limited value. I purchased the Sherwood R 972 in their fire sale for the rec-room, it has limited choices for DRC (none user customizable), but it is nonetheless useful in the context of my rec-room.

"Has limited value" would be a better descirption than "useless".
post #754 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

If it would be true that what we hear "is dominated by the speakers, in particular the spectral response of their first reflections" then no prior knowledge of the speaker's directivity is required. Simply measure the in-room response at the listening position and correct only within the period of time in which the room's specific first reflection pattern develops.

Theoretically that is true. In practice it will be very difficult to get a usable measurement due to secondary reflections and the influence of the length of the IR window on the frequency response.

I am sure you are aware seeing as you have a Toole quote in your signature but see Toole's chapter on speaker measurement pg 378+.
post #755 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyal Mellor View Post

Theoretically that is true. In practice it will be very difficult to get a usable measurement due to secondary reflections and the influence of the length of the IR window on the frequency response.

What do you consider a secondary reflection?
The IR window can be adjusted freely. It could even be varied with frequency. Furthermore we're more interested in higher frequencies. If the IR window is let's say 10ms the obtained response is valid down to 100Hz.
post #756 of 785
"EMOTIVA XMC-1 is a class-leading product with stellar design and unrivaled audio quality. It incorporates truly useful and highly sophisticated features, including an exclusive Emotiva specific version of the Dirac Live™ 7.2 Room Correction System."

It will be interesting if they can deliver

http://www.technologytell.com/hometech/92187/the-man-from-emotiva-a-visit-with-dan-laufman-of-jade-design/
Edited by wse - 6/18/13 at 6:45pm
post #757 of 785
Thread Starter 
Considering how badly they have failed so far with their pre pro, I would not expect a high-end product. I would be imagine it will be a similar implementation of Trinnov by Sherwood in their 972 AVR; i..e. a fairly compromised implementation. Still, a good bang for the buck.
post #758 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View Post

Considering how badly they have failed so far with their pre pro, I would not expect a high-end product. I would be imagine it will be a similar implementation of Trinnov by Sherwood in their 972 AVR; i..e. a fairly compromised implementation. Still, a good bang for the buck.

And when is Theta ever going to deliver Dirac?????
post #759 of 785
Thread Starter 
I have no idea, they do have a history of delaying; e.g. HDMI implementation (but I would not compare that with the problems Emotiva has had). I went the Datasat route and have had Dirac for yrs.
post #760 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

And when is Theta ever going to deliver Dirac?????

The standard answer around here is "Two weeks"... !
post #761 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul GS View PostI have no idea, they do have a history of delaying; e.g. HDMI implementation (but I would not compare that with the problems Emotiva has had). I went the Datasat route and have had Dirac for yrs.

How do you like the DATASAT?

 

I wish it would come down in price under 10K would be nice!

 

How many speakers do you have in your system.

post #762 of 785
wse - with the kit you have you owe it to yourself to take the plunge on the Datasat:)
post #763 of 785
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

How do you like the DATASAT?

I wish it would come down in price under 10K would be nice!

How many speakers do you have in your system.
My system is fairly complicated, and it uses the Datasat's ability to work as a digital x-over (I use it to create the x-overs for each of my speakers) and as a DRC (Dirac Live).
post #764 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Postwse - with the kit you have you owe it to yourself to take the plunge on the Datasat:)

DATASAT is too expensive!

post #765 of 785


I am planning in Neo Xeing and PrologiZISING the SKOLL CINEMA.

Since all 6 surround speakers are wired independently I could use the front sides as wides, but now that I know that the same concentric mid hi horn that is in the 2215 shown here will be availabale in the in wall flush size form factor of the a12 and 212 sub. That is what I want for the width channels.



so I can use a 2115 for the heights, and in 2014 they will issue a speaker that looks like the inwall just above but that has the same mid/hi concentric driver as the big horn up top...
post #766 of 785
^Amazing^

Datasat or Trinnov... Decisions decisions!!!
post #767 of 785
Buy both.
post #768 of 785
That is a Capital IDEA...
post #769 of 785
Heard the Datasat in action during last Saturday Hong Kong Hi-Fi 2013 show , RS-20i + RA7300 + JBL 1400 array , 880 Array mid + 4 Sunfire Subs. etc. While the sound is full of dynamic & details , it is nevertheless not pleasant to most ears - including mine . Probably time is too tight for properly setup for a room with @25 seats & 25 stands .
There is no doubt that RS20i is topping all other processors but it is probably not easy to setup to extract its full potential , also the inevitable cost of the calibration unit you need to have in case you want to touch up when changing your speakers , amp in later time .

I do not know if DATASAT had sent someone over to do setup and why the sound level were set so high , it was pinching on my ears and tiring me after 7 min of the whole 15 min demo show . Bluray selected for demo "Hansel & Gretel - Witch Hunter" last 2 chapters .

Getting back my home , I pulled out the same disc and through ADA + Trinnov , I smiled once again , yes , I have made a good choice on getting Trinnov , much easier to setup & sounding no wanting to my ears . Yes , DATASAT is my next goal but not until it is getting more user friendly & hopefully available as purely processor only so that I can pair it with Trinnov .

This is the first time I heard DATASAT RS20i - no conclusion could be drawn , but did caution me that improper setup could probably ruin such a good system .

Cheer !
post #770 of 785
This is not the first time there are reports of a Datasat product sounding poorly due to suspected set up issues... Why can't they get it together for demonstrations that can impact large numbers of potential customers?
post #771 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Ng View Post

Heard the Datasat in action during last Saturday Hong Kong Hi-Fi 2013 show , RS-20i + RA7300 + JBL 1400 array , 880 Array mid + 4 Sunfire Subs. etc. While the sound is full of dynamic & details , it is nevertheless not pleasant to most ears - including mine . Probably time is too tight for properly setup for a room with @25 seats & 25 stands .
There is no doubt that RS20i is topping all other processors but it is probably not easy to setup to extract its full potential , also the inevitable cost of the calibration unit you need to have in case you want to touch up when changing your speakers , amp in later time .

I do not know if DATASAT had sent someone over to do setup and why the sound level were set so high , it was pinching on my ears and tiring me after 7 min of the whole 15 min demo show . Bluray selected for demo "Hansel & Gretel - Witch Hunter" last 2 chapters .

Getting back my home , I pulled out the same disc and through ADA + Trinnov , I smiled once again , yes , I have made a good choice on getting Trinnov , much easier to setup & sounding no wanting to my ears . Yes , DATASAT is my next goal but not until it is getting more user friendly & hopefully available as purely processor only so that I can pair it with Trinnov .

This is the first time I heard DATASAT RS20i - no conclusion could be drawn , but did caution me that improper setup could probably ruin such a good system .

Cheer !

I've been wrestling a bit between the two, but am heavily leaning the Trinnov way. It seems Datasat, though having the ability to be excellent, seems to trail the Trinnov in terms of usability. I see arguments for each piece but it seems that whenever Datasat is demo'd, it is less than what it could be.
post #772 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I've been wrestling a bit between the two, but am heavily leaning the Trinnov way. It seems Datasat, though having the ability to be excellent, seems to trail the Trinnov in terms of usability. I see arguments for each piece but it seems that whenever Datasat is demo'd, it is less than what it could be.

Pick up a copy of Stereophile and read Kal's review of the Trinnov in this month's issue.
post #773 of 785
All you lot need to come to the UK to be blown away in Genesis UK ICE room, or my room for that matter.

I still haven't got Dirac setup and find the rs20i a doddle to setup and find it heaps better than my old Ada / trinnov combo. There is absolutely no harshness or tiredness from listening to 3 movies in a go at full reference.

Who ever is setting up these rooms needs to have their ears cleaned. Unless you have speakers routed incorrectly I find it really hard to see what they can be doing wrong in setup.

Perhaps they are using the wrong mic calibration file for Dirac? That could make a huge difference and problem.
post #774 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post


Pick up a copy of Stereophile and read Kal's review of the Trinnov in this month's issue.

Is the print edition out, Eric?  Still waiting for my e-copy to show up......

post #775 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Is the print edition out, Eric?  Still waiting for my e-copy to show up......

I have the print. E-copy usually arrives a few days later for obscure reasons.
post #776 of 785
I'm looking to pick up a copy. What's the bottom line and was it an extensive review?
post #777 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I'm looking to pick up a copy. What's the bottom line and was it an extensive review?

Generally very positive, and very extensive review. Interestingly, the best digital source he used for the review was a very dated Oppo 980 with "Shawn Fogg" digital output board. In my estimation, this source can be improved on a lot (Vanity board and even better MSN UMT transport) and he has not heard the full potential of the Trinnov. Very bullish nonetheless.
post #778 of 785
Trinnov>Dirac.

Dirac is easier to use- less variables to mess with.

Datasat sound out of the box > Rhapsody

Rhapsody + Trinnov > Datasat + Dirac.

those are my opinions; the 5 second version of 4 months of work.

Dan
post #779 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFrancis View Post

Trinnov>Dirac.

Dirac is easier to use- less variables to mess with.

Datasat sound out of the box > Rhapsody

Rhapsody + Trinnov > Datasat + Dirac.

those are my opinions; the 5 second version of 4 months of work.

Dan

Isn't there a $7K MSRP difference?
post #780 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by schlitzie View Post

Isn't there a $7K MSRP difference?

The price difference should be considered but still a great summary:)
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