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Sibillance Dynaudio X12

post #1 of 33
9/8/10 at 9:01am
Thread Starter 
Hey guys,

Ive been looking for some new speakers quite some time now and after many auditions i choose the Dynaudio Excite x12. At the auditions i din't hear any sibilance. The equipment that was used was a Denon DCD-700 cd player and a Denon AVR1910. according to the internet the Excite is a speaker with smooth hights and "silky smooth mids" but at home the mids (vocals) are all but smooth. I would not call them harsh but they are not sibilance free either. Is it a question of burn in? or is it something else?

I stream my music through a Asus D2x to the Denon AVR 2105 and the Excite X12. so my setup is:

AMP: Denon AVR-2105
Speakers: Dynaudio Excite X12
Source Asus d2x
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post #2 of 33
9/8/10 at 9:06am
Describe the room. Carpet/hardwood, type of furniture, windows/curtains, etcetera?

Ron
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post #3 of 33
9/8/10 at 9:28am
sibilance is rarely caused by the speaker(especially a quality one such as a Dynaudio)...but can certainly be accented by a speaker.

I would check the connections and settings of your equipment as well.
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post #4 of 33
9/8/10 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
View of the room:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2543/afb027d.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/afb026g.jpg/

IS the Excite x12 know to accent sibilance?
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post #5 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

IS the Excite x12 know to accent sibilance?

I have never heard that to be the case with any Dynaudio speaker.
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post #6 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

View of the room:
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2543/afb027d.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/i/afb026g.jpg/

IS the Excite x12 know to accent sibilance?

Lots of hard objects in that room, that's my guess, try putting blankets and pillows around the room, on the floor, over the window and glass managerie to see if that helps.

Obv. this isn't meant as a permanent solution, rather as a test.

Ron
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post #7 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I have never heard that to be the case with any Dynaudio speaker.

Could it be the source? Or the Denon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

Lots of hard objects in that room, that's my guess, try putting blankets and pillows around the room, on the floor, over the window and glass managerie to see if that helps.

Obv. this isn't meant as a permanent solution, rather as a test.

Ron

I wil post the results tomarrow. Will towels do?
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post #8 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

Could it be the source? Or the Denon?

Either....you will have to do some testing. Also make sure everything is hooked up correctly....and check the settings for all the equipment the signal passes through.
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post #9 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
As far i can see the settings are ok. I don't know what setting could mess up the sound. I use Foobar in combination with Kernel streaming or WASAPI and from the Asus D2X there goes an analogue and digital connection to the Denon (for testing purposes i set up both). I've checked the settings in the Denon and it seems ok.The sibilance has nothing to do with burn in??
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post #10 of 33
9/8/10 at 10:53am
are you playing low resolution mp3? that could be part of the reason.
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post #11 of 33
9/8/10 at 11:34am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardyc View Post

are you playing low resolution mp3? that could be part of the reason.

No I am using FLAC and some mp3 files with a bitrate of 320kbps.
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post #12 of 33
9/8/10 at 11:45am
IMO, the sibilance should not have anything to do with burn in.

As for the sound, what I you comparing to? The speakers you had before the Dyns?
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post #13 of 33
9/8/10 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

Could it be the source? Or the Denon?



I wil post the results tomarrow. Will towels do?

If you've got enough of them, as will pillows, coats, people, animals, basically soft sound apsorbing things vs. hard reflective things.

Ron
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post #14 of 33
9/8/10 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

IMO, the sibilance should not have anything to do with burn in.

As for the sound, what I you comparing to? The speakers you had before the Dyns?

Well, it has been awile since i lstened to my old Dali Concept 2 speakers, because it sounded like crap (my mistake). I've used a Headphone (hd595) to listen to my music. and that one was sibilance free. The Dali speakers had some sort of sibilance issue, but a little less pronounced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

If you've got enough of them, as will pillows, coats, people, animals, basically soft sound apsorbing things vs. hard reflective things.
Ron

Over the glass case with the cars and the desk?
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post #15 of 33
9/8/10 at 12:45pm
If you hear the sibilance coming directly from the speakers, I would not worry about covering all the hard reflective areas.

When do you hear the sibilance? "S" sounds? Cymbals?

Both speakers?
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post #16 of 33
9/8/10 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
There is another thing. I think it is relevant. When i started this search for a better sound, i found a topic that reffered to sibilance. Then i demod the focal 806V in the store everything was fine, but at home with my own Denon ( the one at the shop was a 1910) there suddenly was alot of mid-bass punch (it gave me a headache). Then i tried the same combo with a Marantz 6004 and suddenly i heard something that i could not define. It was the SSSSSS of sibilance. Since then it has been hard for me to find a speaker that match my demands and is sibilant free. Same goes for headphones. For example i found the HD600 a sibilant headphone while at forums the people discribed it as non sibilant. I´ve been hearing sibilance in almost every speaker-headphone eversince.


My point is: I do not know if the sibilance that i hear is really sibilance or that it is all in my head. I came across Dynaudio because it is know for its soft reproduction of music and sibilant free.

I am sorry for the long story, but i had to write it down.
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post #17 of 33
9/8/10 at 12:57pm
I just read, the X12 is a 4 ohm speaker. Is your receiver rated for a 4 ohm speaker? The low impedance of the speaker could be causing issues with the receiver.
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post #18 of 33
9/8/10 at 2:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I just read, the X12 is a 4 ohm speaker. Is your receiver rated for a 4 ohm speaker? The low impedance of the speaker could be causing issues with the receiver.

Yes. I also wonder if the Denon 2105 is sufficient or the dynaudio's. But then again, i do not understand why the Excite is cousing sibilance on the net, there is no know sibilance issue with this speakers. I've read in a review that the x36 had some sibilance issue, but thats a whole different speaker.
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post #19 of 33
9/8/10 at 2:43pm
I don't think it is the speaker. I'm thinking maybe it's the receiver and the speaker's 4 ohm average impedance.
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post #20 of 33
9/8/10 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

Well, it has been awile since i lstened to my old Dali Concept 2 speakers, because it sounded like crap (my mistake). I've used a Headphone (hd595) to listen to my music. and that one was sibilance free. The Dali speakers had some sort of sibilance issue, but a little less pronounced.



Over the glass case with the cars and the desk?

Yes, over the glass managerie.

Ron
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post #21 of 33
9/8/10 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

Yes, over the glass managerie.

Ron

Iam sorry for my english, I am from Holland. Some words are a little difficult.
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post #22 of 33
9/8/10 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

Iam sorry for my english, I am from Holland. Some words are a little difficult.

Your English is fine, I was making a little joke - there is a play called "glass managerie" by Tennessee Williams that I thought would be fun to compare to the car display case.

Hopefully it is the receiver or the room b/c your story made me think of a similar story where the person was diagnosed with Tinnitus.

Ron
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post #23 of 33
9/8/10 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post

Hopefully it is the receiver or the room b/c your story made me think of a similar story where the person was diagnosed with Tinnitus.

I was thinking the same thing. I know a couple of folks that have had tinnitus.
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post #24 of 33
9/8/10 at 5:37pm
The Sennheiser HD600 and the Dynaudios are definitely sibilance free, if you're hearing it everywhere I'd give your ears a rest, most likely a case of psychoacoustic neurosis, nothing to be ashamed of as the majority of audiophiles has fallen prey at one time or another, myself included.
Other than the source creating it, not familiar with the Asus d2x but it looks respectable, I have found on occasion oxidized connections on the speaker cable or interconnects being the culprit, they may not look dirty but give them a clean anyway.
Bearing all that it may just be matter of breaking-in the speakers, Dyns like about 200 hr+/-.

Good luck
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post #25 of 33
9/9/10 at 12:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

If you hear the sibilance coming directly from the speakers, I would not worry about covering all the hard reflective areas.

When do you hear the sibilance? "S" sounds? Cymbals?

Both speakers?

Only the harsh SSSS and TTTS sounds, on cymbals i don't hear sibilance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang View Post

I was thinking the same thing. I know a couple of folks that have had tinnitus.

Could be, i am not hearing a constant beep in my ears.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob80b View Post

The Sennheiser HD600 and the Dynaudios are definitely sibilance free, if you’re hearing it everywhere I’d give your ears a rest, most likely a case of psychoacoustic neurosis, nothing to be ashamed of as the majority of audiophiles has fallen prey at one time or another, myself included.
Other than the source creating it, not familiar with the Asus d2x but it looks respectable, I have found on occasion oxidized connections on the speaker cable or interconnects being the culprit, they may not look dirty but give them a clean anyway.
Bearing all that it may just be matter of breaking-in the speakers, Dyns like about 200 hr+/-.

Good luck

Ok lets assume that it is my health and not the speakers. What to do next?


And something else: Because the dynaudio need a lot of power, and i mostly watch movies downstairs (not om my 5.1 system), i want to go stereo. Another plus is the fact that if i really can't stand the speakers anymore, it is easier to switch them (only two speakers and not an expansive amp).

Because i am new to the Stereo world, i am on a budget. Will €500 be sufficient?

The towels and blankets didn't help.
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post #26 of 33
9/9/10 at 10:55am
If you think it is a health issue with your ears, get your ears/hearing check by a doctor.

The speaker doesn't really need a lot of power. What it needs is a receiver/amplifier than can handle the 4 ohm impedance rating.
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post #27 of 33
9/10/10 at 9:57am
Thread Starter 
Should I keep the speakers and go stereo or look for different speakers? its a hard choice because i now know that it is partly the room. Because of my test with towels and blankets. I've said earlyer that it did not help, but after a bit more tweaking, it did help.
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post #28 of 33
9/10/10 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by the limp man View Post

Should I keep the speakers and go stereo or look for different speakers? its a hard choice because i now know that it is partly the room. Because of my test with towels and blankets. I've said earlyer that it did not help, but after a bit more tweaking, it did help.

It looks to me like you've got both room and placement issues going on, I would address those issues before the speakers. I'm an amatuer in this regard, if I were you I'd ask about how to fix your room in the "audio theory and chat" section.
This was my intro to AVS, I came asking for speaker recommendations and was browbeat into fixing my room first.

Good luck!

Ron
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post #29 of 33
9/10/10 at 10:29am
Since the towels and blankets helped....definitely do what Ron has suggested.
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post #30 of 33
9/10/10 at 10:38am
Thread Starter 
It helpt a bit, ther was no world shocking difference, but there was one
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