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The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 111

post #3301 of 3823
The pro kit lets you save two different curves . It takes about 15 minutes to switch. It does cost $ but the there are also benefits in the SQ.
post #3302 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmschnur View Post

The pro kit lets you save two different curves . It takes about 15 minutes to switch. It does cost $ but the there are also benefits in the SQ.

I have the Pro kit and I can save all kinds of curves but I'm too impatient (generally) but I may have to reconsider!!
post #3303 of 3823
Ugh well a reset seems to have done nothing... it still cant initialize / see the network. USB also doesnt work, and upon getting past the first screen of a new Audyssey session, it only says "wait" on the front panel and wont get off that.

I guess since the firmware menu item is grayed out I also can not attempt to put new firmware on a usb key and try updating it to see if that clears out some issue...

Any ideas other than to prepare to waste $50 or so shipping this to a warranty center?
post #3304 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

Ugh well a reset seems to have done nothing... it still cant initialize / see the network. USB also doesnt work, and upon getting past the first screen of a new Audyssey session, it only says "wait" on the front panel and wont get off that.

I guess since the firmware menu item is grayed out I also can not attempt to put new firmware on a usb key and try updating it to see if that clears out some issue...

Any ideas other than to prepare to waste $50 or so shipping this to a warranty center?

Restart your router and switches.
post #3305 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Restart your router and switches.

While your resetting your router,turn off the set and unplug it for a while.
post #3306 of 3823
yeah unfortunately, I tried that too. Even with the ethernet cable unplugged, it wont let me access USB. Pretty much anything having to do with usb or network is grayed out / not working. When i first received the unit I could at least look at the network settings whether or not something was connected. Now I cant even go into that part of the menu.
post #3307 of 3823
Any other front panel stuff having issues?
post #3308 of 3823
No, I can select other inputs, and, although I experienced a few audio quirks when playing back a Blu ray bitstreamed through my OPPO last night, a power cycle of the Integra fixed that and the movie played successfully. I was finally able to complete a new Audyssey calibration, but I am still not sure why even that didnt work at first. It just kept telling me to wait (I gave it 20 minutes or more on one of the tries)... but then if finally just started working and moved on to the mic placement part of the calibration...

So for now this seems to only affect anything and everything having to do with USB/network.
post #3309 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I agree with the post that suggested comparing Direct and corrected two channel sound. Once you have had room correction applied to your audio signal it is hard to go back.

I have a 'separate' two channel system for only one reason: the 80.2 does not allow the storage and recall of multiple target curves. I want to listen to music with the most neutral frequency response possible. I am trying to reproduce real instruments (and I know what they sound like in the real world) in my listening room and I do not want to add or subtract anything from that. That dictates a specific kind of target curve.

For movies, however, I want to be as immersed as possible in the story so my target curve (my preference, not reference, before anyone jumps on me) is not one that I want to use for music. Since I have never heard a bomb go off, or the sound of a 50mm gun, or dynamite or a car crashing into a building or a building fall down or a plane crash, there is no real standard to which I can realistically compare what I get from my HT system --- so I get to make up my own and as a result have chosen to create a target curve that increases the "fun factor" for me. This primarily includes a much different shape of the target curve (read: elevated bass response below about 80hz). It is totally wrong for music but very exciting for movies, particularly action movies.

So for my two channel listening, I use a TacT Audio 2.2XP which provides room correction and bass/mains integration. I use a target curve that does what it needs to do for 2 channel. It isn't ideal but I have solved the cable switching dilemma through the use of a DAC (connected to both the TacT and the 80.2) that also has analog inputs form the 80.2 so "cable switching" is done by selecting a different input on the DAC. Unfortunately, I have about 3.5 times the cost of my 80.2 in my 2 channel rig. Really dumb.

Also, I have experimented listening to 2 channel with some of the surround modes on the 80.2 and it provides (in most cases) a much more realistic presentation of what I envision the music should sound like. I give that up with the TacT.

I am waiting for someone (Lexicon or the AP20 maybe) to release a product that has what I am looking for AND a great room correction product.

My advice: Forget the separate 2 channel rig, pick a target curve on the 80.2 that works for both and save yourself some time and aggravation (and money). I am actually very close to dumping the separate 2 channel rig and taking my own advice.

To each his or her own, of course. But, I am 100% satisfied with one target curve for both music and movies, though I could store and recall an almost infinite number of them via Pro. Part of this is my own bias toward music. I believe I have a real-life reference for the sound of live classical music by virtue of all the live concerts I attend, including some Philadelphia Orchestra live recordings which I was there for. It's all subject to the vagaries of acoustic memory, of course. But, I have been in enough halls to have a fair idea implated in my feeble brain of what live music sounds like.

My 80.2 provides a very satisfying replica of that to my ears with only one simple modification to Audyssey's stock target curve - removal of the 2K Hz "midrange compensation" dip. I believe the high end rolloff to be entirely correct both theoretically and audibly. My target curve is therefore flat, except for the HF rolloff, and to me it sounds phenomenal - virtually as good as the best Mch systems I have heard and, via discretely-recorded Mch classical recordings, superior to any stereo I have ever heard at any price.

To me if it's right for music, it's right for movies. The nature of movie sound is such that I do not generally have a live reference upon which I can base a judgement about how it actually did sound when it was recorded. I just don't know. Dialog predominates movies, and I have never heard Meryl Streep's or Al Pacino's voice in real life. Music in movies is almost always recorded highly multi-miked in studios, so I do not know exactly what that is supposed to sound like. I was not there, and it is highly re-engineered studio sound anyway. Other effects are not useful in determining realism. A movie car crash, explosion, cannon shot , helicopter or whatever all sound exactly like I think they ought to from Blu-rays. But, again, I was not there to hear the nuances of the specific event. So, I am highly satisfied with the realism of movie soundtracks, given that my system sounds as real as it does on music. There, at least, I know what "real" is supposed to sound like.
post #3310 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Music in movies is almost always recorded highly multi-miked in studios, so I do not know exactly what that is supposed to sound like. I was not there, and it is highly re-engineered studio sound anyway. Other effects are not useful in determining realism. A movie car crash, explosion, cannon shot , helicopter or whatever all sound exactly like I think they ought to from Blu-rays. But, again, I was not there to hear the nuances of the specific event. So, I am highly satisfied with the realism of movie soundtracks, given that my system sounds as real as it does on music. There, at least, I know what "real" is supposed to sound like.

You make an interesting point. Many of the sound effects in movies are specifically not designed to sound 'real' because if they did sound real, it would be dangerous. Many years ago I was unfortunate enough to be fairly close to a relatively small bomb when it exploded. I was physically hurled backwards and my hearing was dull for a day or so afterwards. If your system recreated that in your HT or living room it would be a disaster! Same with gunshots - it's no coincidence that on a real-life firing range you have to wear substantial ear defenders because the close-up sound of modern weapons being fired can easily damage hearing. Remember the scene in Black Hawk Down where one of the grunts is totally deafened because his buddy fires an automatic weapon over his shoulder? And when Bruce leaps onto the undercarriage of a 747 as it takes off and he climbs into the plane, he would be left permanently deaf for life if he did that in reality - and so would we if the system realistically reproduced a jumbo jet taking off 10 metres away. Similarly, if an earthquake was realistic, your house would fall down because that is what happens in earthquakes! I guess the idea is to entertain us by giving us an 'impression' of these sounds in real life. Of course, there are other sounds that we can relate to and which can be played at realistic levels - nice throaty V8 engines being thrashed for example in the 'Fast' films. But I'm with you - like you I know what live music sounds like (although my preference is jazz not classical) and I know if my system is reproducing it in lifelike way - so if music sounds right, then I assume that the movies sound right too.
post #3311 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post


To me if it's right for music, it's right for movies.

+1

I use "well-recorded" live music such as HDCD of jazz performances and usually include a female vocal. When that is dialed in, everything else I listen to is at its best including movies. For my 5508, my curve is +2dB @ 200Hz applied to all main channels (not the sub) and "anchored" to reference at 300Hz. The only other tweak is +1.5dB @ 20KHz, with anchors at 12KHz and 24KHz.
post #3312 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post


To each his or her own, of course. But, I am 100% satisfied with one target curve for both music and movies, though I could store and recall an almost infinite number of them via Pro. Part of this is my own bias toward music.

I have had season tickets to the Atlanta Symphony for well over 20 years and my bias is music as well. And I have used a single target curve for music and movies for most of the time but, as noted, my "preference" is a bit more "oomph" for action movies. The target I am using has no effect on dialog. As you said, to each his own!

And Merry Christmas to all who celebrate this special time of year!!
post #3313 of 3823
Well, as I had posted earlier, I thought I had skirted by the ribbon connector issue only to have my unit start ignoring IR commands about three weeks ago. I jumped on things as soon as I realized what was happening and got the unit off to the service center ASAP.

Turns out there was more wrong with the unit than just that. I got a call on Thursday from the service center letting me know the DSP board was also bad.

The repair status website is telling me they are actually replacing two boards: something called the "PCB Board" and another part called the "Micro Board". Those of you that have been reading this thread since the beginning may recall that I was one of those that experienced pop's through my speakers during power up and off, as well as associated with some relay clicks. I wonder if something in my unit has been bad from the beginning.

Anyway, the good news is that the unit being out for repair has not been all that much of an inconvenience in the end as it was coordinated not only with the installation of my screen (which required a total disassembly and moving of the entire system out of the way) , but also the painters who are scheduled for next week. Along with traveling over the holidays, and the timing was as ideal as it could be for something like this to pop up.
post #3314 of 3823
That's what, three or four birds with one stone?
post #3315 of 3823
Almost
I kicked myself because I should have gotten the unit to service when we were actually "moving" - I took the theater entire apart when our NC house was on the market and it was more or less in storage from April to September, but there was enough moving parts that it just wasn't on the radar. In the end, while inconvenient, this was far less of an impact as it could have been at another time.
Now I'm just really curious about what the symptoms were of the two bad boards that were replaced.
post #3316 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

That's what, three or four birds with one stone?

And a partridge in a pear tree.
post #3317 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post


And a partridge in a pear tree.

And Fiiiiiive Golden Rings!!!!!
post #3318 of 3823
One partridge to rule them all.
post #3319 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomefs View Post

Yes I do get a lot of relay clicking on my 80.2 ,no big deal compared to the thumps coming out the left and right speakers when the relay clicks hapen. This probelm only hapens on one of my amps it is Dc coupled, a B&K ex 442 2 chanel power amp. If I swap this amp out with somyhing else The speaker thumps go away. It seems to be a compatibility issue between the 80.2 and the B&K ex 442.The thumps do not get louder as the volume is increaced,but every time I get a relay click I get a thump out of the two speakers hooked up to this amp . I measured dc voltage out of the main out rca and found that by turning the bass up or down for instance, I would get a 1.5 mv jump on my voltmeter,then it would go back down to zero, volume set at minimum, I think this dc voltage is going into my amp and my amp is reacting to it . This did not hapen when this amp was hooked up to my lexicon dc-1.Anyone else have this problem, or measurment, Thanks

I run a Proceed AMP5 with my DHC 80.2 and when connected via balanced cables I got the same thump. My dealer did an exchange and the new unit did the same thing. I ended up going with RCA cables and the thump is gone. Sucks as I bought a bunch of new balanced cables that I can't use but it's thump free now. Prior to the 80.2 I ran a Proceed AVP and used balanced cables on the main channels with no thumps.
post #3320 of 3823
Hello:
I was planning on getting the 80.2, but it sounds like a disaster. Would you folks buy this unit again?
post #3321 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk913 View Post

Hello:
I was planning on getting the 80.2, but it sounds like a disaster. Would you folks buy this unit again?

Absolutely great for me. The 80.3 should do you fine. Xt 32 is the real deal. Clicks not an issue in my home.
post #3322 of 3823
I have the 80.2 and near as I can tell there isn't anything better for even 2X the price. By better I don't mean primarily sonically, I mean the combination of features, quality, support, updates, and sonics. I got burned big time by Proceed in the 90s. Fantastic audio, but Madrigal was not equipped for the transition from analog audio to the software world of Home Theater and digital. In the 80s, consumer electronics products had thousands of lines of code. Today devices have millions of lines of code. Keeping up with changes, and debugging requires a massive investment in software and that requires a completely new set of skills. The Proceed PMDT DVD player killed Proceed and Madrigal. When I first bought one it could only play 30% of the DVDs I tried. After 3 years of constant updates and shipping back for service it could play about 70% of DVDs. It sucks to try to explain to your wife why your new $6000 DVD player won't play brand new DVDs.

I'm in high tech and it's my professional opinion that low volume boutique suppliers of consumer electronics cannot keep up with this demand. So, I am no longer going to buy from the low volume guys. I believe that Integra/Onkyo has enough volume to make this work. That's why I bet on them.

Since I've purchased I've had 3 issues.
1) Clicks. If you want to decode digital, and the source drops the audio stream, or the digital stream changes format, the 80.2 mutes the amps to avoid bad sounds coming out. I've had gear that makes bads sounds when audio changes, and it's bad. The 80.2 doesn't do this. They choose to use reed relays instead of solid state relays. Better sonically, but they make a mechanical click that I can hear from my listening position 15 feet away. It's possible that Onkyo could do a better job of handling the audio stream changes so they don't have to mute whenever the stream changes, but the 80.2 has the reed relays so we have what we have.
2) The bad cable that caused the control issues. Crap happens. Their manufacturer screwed up and got conformal board coating on the connector. At least with my 80.2, they handled it very well and it was only gone 10 days or so. I say bad luck but they handled it well.
3) I wanted to use balanced cables on all the inputs to my Proceed PMDT amp. With the Proceed processor I only had balanced outputs for Front Rt/LFt and Center. With the Proceed connected to Proceed the balanced connection was perfect. With the 80.2 connected to my Proceed AMP with balanced cables I got a really nasty loud pop through the speakers every time the digital stream changed. Really nasty, worry about the health of your speakers pop. Integra swapped my first unit and the second did the same. My dealer was shocked at how bad it was. He was willing to refund my money. In the end I decided to just use RCA cables. Sounds fine. I will speculate here that the the clicking to mute when bad things can happen is only protecting the RCA outputs and not the balanced.

Overall, I'm disappointed with the clicks and the balanced cables but I'd probably buy it again knowing this because of the technology thing at the top of my post...joe
post #3323 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk913 View Post

Hello:
I was planning on getting the 80.2, but it sounds like a disaster. Would you folks buy this unit again?

Sounds like a disaster? In what way? Seems a bit strong to me. Forums like these are magnets for complaints. I challenge you to find me a unit from anyone, onkyo to anthem that hasn't had a horror story. Sure, the ribbon connector thing wasn't ideal, but onkyo/integra dealt with the problem. Should it have been avoided? Maybe, but this kind of stuff happens and I think it's been dealt with pretty well. Hec, theyll even fix this one out of warranty or if purchased from the grey market.

As was stated above, the unit does have a few quirks...But having owned units from every major Japanese manufacturer, they all do, so pick your poison. The eccentricities of onkyos are well known.

Coming from someone who doesn't care for the clicks, I still feel that the 80.2/.3 remains the best buy out there in home theater pre/pros and really the only option unless you are prepared to drop serious cash. Until marantz comes out with a successor to the 8003 (and who knows when that'll happen... It's already been 2 years), competitors that offer more will command 2-3x and higher prices. And as was pointed out earlier, the niche guys often struggle to keep up with the software engineering to keep things running these days. Implementing things like 3d, for example, isn't trivial. Sometimes I think we forget the install base. Thousands of dealers install these units every day.
post #3324 of 3823
First off let me say yes I would buy this unit again. I am and have been for some time somewhat disconnected from HT. Oddly I also have a history with Proceed and I have my old proceed AVP2 running as a DAC/Pre now where it does very well. In the past I have owned Denon and Marantz units, so I have some sampling from the low-mid range to the higher end. I ran about 90% 2 channel in my HT over the last 3-4 years as it was simply put just to much of a pain to keep up with all the changes... formats, connections number of speakers etc.... it just turned me off.

I think the basic point from Joe that you need to scale to keep up with today's technology and format war(s) is basically correct. If you are going into HT go with one of the big boys from Japan. Even some of the old guard in 2 channel struggle with price-point features and as mentioned software to support all that HT has to offer. I would suggest that Cary, Krell and even Macintosh units are very good, but pricy, have limited life and often plummet in value when the market changes faster then they can respond.

For 2-3k depending on where you buy, who installs and sets up the unit etc the Integra unit is simply put miles ahead of anyone else in market today. Yes they click... and yes they can and have had some issues with lock up. Read the forms and see if the folks who bought those 5-10k units 2 years back are happy today without HDMI support or the pennies on the dollar price they can get on ebay or audiogon.

I will say that in the 2 channel world I still think there is a great deal of value in the older companies as well as some of the small niche manufacturers. As a hobby 2 channel is far less risky...... I can still play an LP when I want to. In HT if your not willing and or able to keep up with the form and format changes you will likely be unhappy with the overall experience. For me 2k was about all I was willing to put into something I will likely pull out within 36 months. Something to keep in mind if you are on the fence.

The average age of a component in my 2 channel rig is 6 years with the oldest pushing 11. In my HT its half that at best, and if I take out speakers the oldest component is 2 years old. Again I would buy the Integra and will likely buy the 80.4 or 80.5 a couple years down the road, they all have problems but on balance between features, prices and sound quality I think Integra has hit a sweet spot at least for me.
post #3325 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by atkatana View Post


The average age of a component in my 2 channel rig is 6 years with the oldest pushing 11. In my HT its half that at best, and if I take out speakers the oldest component is 2 years old. Again I would buy the Integra and will likely buy the 80.4 or 80.5 a couple years down the road, they all have problems but on balance between features, prices and sound quality I think Integra has hit a sweet spot at least for me.

Very good points, well made. My two channel setup has remained unchanged now for years. My Class A amp is about 25 years old and the speakers are not far behind. Neither is my Naim CD player. And I am still very happy with the sound I get from that system. Like a fool, I sold my Linn Sonndek turntable with its ultra-expensive arm and cartridge some years back, along with my collection of LPs - a decision I regret almost daily. My focus these days in on movies and HT though, and I agree entirely with what you say. My average component life is less than 2 years so far!

That smaller 'boutique' manufacturers struggle with complex components like HT pre-pros is nowhere better evidenced than in many of the Emotiva threads where some 4 years after release their UMC-1 prepro is still not working properly according to many of its users. That Emo can make great amplifiers (nice, simple units that haven't changed much in years) but struggle with complex, sophisticated, software-driven units like pre pros fully bears out your (and Joe Jensen's) observations.
post #3326 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayhawk913 View Post

Hello:
I was planning on getting the 80.2, but it sounds like a disaster. Would you folks buy this unit again?

Definitely would buy it again. No problems at all and superb sound via XT/32. Disaster? You have to remember that threads like this are "problem magnets". Check any other product's thread. They pretty much all seem like disasters, too.

But, where else are you going to go, anyway? From experience with friends systems, I would not trade my 80.2 even up for a Denon or Anthem prepro at 3x - 4x the price.
post #3327 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post


Definitely would buy it again. No problems at all and superb sound via XT/32. Disaster? You have to remember that threads like this are "problem magnets". Check any other product's thread. They pretty much all seem like disasters, too.

But, where else are you going to go, anyway? From experience with friends systems, I would not trade my 80.2 even up for a Denon or Anthem prepro at 3x - 4x the price.

An 80.3 perhaps
post #3328 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlknez View Post

An 80.3 perhaps

I have the 5509 (exact same unit functionally as 80.3). IMO It's not worth trading up from the 80.2 to the 80.3/5509 unless someone specifically wants 4k upscaling or one of the other small changes such as DTS Neo:X. The differences between the two units are very small. I traded up from an XT-equipped 5007 to the XT32-equippped 5509 and that is most definitely a worthwhile upgrade.
post #3329 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by fitzcaraldo215 View Post

Definitely would buy it again. No problems at all and superb sound via XT/32. Disaster? You have to remember that threads like this are "problem magnets". Check any other product's thread. They pretty much all seem like disasters, too.

This is what I keep telling myself. I recently purchased an Integra DTR-70.2 from my dealer. I got a killer price. Every now and then it doesn't power on using the remote, original or my URC. I'll have to use the power button on the front and then the remote works great. My dealer is trying to get a hold of Integra (maybe due to the CES show) to see about an exchange. I called Integra about the matter and they said I should get a replacement, I told them my dealer does not have anymore 70.2's in stock. I told them my dealer would contact them. I was thinking of jumping ship to a Denon AVR-4311 or going Anthem MRX-500 after reading all stories in this thread and Onkyo/Integra failure thread. As you said, forums like these are "problem magnets". Other brands suffer defects also. I love what Audyssey XT32 has done for my setup. I'm hoping my dealer hears back from Integra on a replacement, I wouldn't even mind a 70.3. You do get a lot of bang for buck with Onkyo/Integra receivers.
post #3330 of 3823
I just bought an Onkyo Integra DHC-80.2 factory reconditioned unit at Audiogon for about 1/2 the msrp and i wonder if anyone else here has also purchased a factory reconditioned Integra DHC-80.2 and if there is any implied warranty directly from the manufacturer.
I haven't received the item yet but one of the pictures on the ad showed the processor packaged inside a box with external labels stating "Integra two year warranty" and i wonder if that is valid even though the dealer told me that there isn't any warranty implied.
I have owned an Onkyo 886 processor for almost three years now and it has worked flawlessly 10~12 hours per day, which was another indication for me to stay with Onkyo A/V processors, but i can't help but wonder about the reliability of the Integra 80.2.
Any comments, suggestions, heads-up warnings, etc, would be appreciated...
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