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The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 120

post #3571 of 3823
Jeff: We seem to have missed each other completly. "EQ" - AUDYSSEY is a needed tool that much improves the majority of my listening experiance. It is not optional for me either and is back on.

The fact that the unit can handle DSD and sounds wonderful in both stereo and multi channel gives me some hope for the format, if you get the chance give it a listen. Its 1 bit a 44.1kHz but that is what the spec says it should be... 8 channels sample rate 44.1 so be it I am getting what I paid for in terms of what is on the disk and it sounds very good indeed. Brovo to integra for providing the ability to take in a DSD stream.

When a product has a listening mode called "DTS 96/24" and says in its manual to use it to enjoy hi rez recordings up to 5.1 out (I will except the fine print at face value and reading if EQ is disabled means I will disable it and see what happens)...... and well the integra still tell you the unit sees the incoming signle as 96/24 and promptly samples to the dac at 48kHz

How about this.... lets put "EQ" - AUDYSSEY back in seems like we both need it and lets go get a qualirty DVD-A recording such as Fragile from Yes. As the recording has both a DTS 96/24 and a stereo 192kHz output available one might think hey now lets ignor that fancy surround stuff and go back to plain old stereo....... only you guessed it sample rate out DTS or stereo is 48kHz had to try them both after I could not get anything higher then 48kHz on the stereo mix.

Well now that's fine lets be honest DVD-A and SACD are to be frank dead so I will grab a nice Blue Ray.... DTS master out.... at 48kHz..... well that is a remix of an older DVD to be fair so Harry Potter last one in the series on Blu Ray we can agree that is modern enough to be mixed at something of a better sample rate when we get to DTS master right..... well wrong output is 48kHz.

Again, I can go over HDMI, I can go over SPDIF, I can go Bitstream or LPMC..... I can even set LPMC for 192kHz out with my trusty DVD-A recording and the Integra still says love the 48kHz.

Play a hi rez 2 channel FLAC and it will in fact read it and sample it at 24/96 kHz just as it will read DSD/DTS/DVD-A all correctly incoming and then promptly resample to 48Khz or basically what you could get out off a sub 100 dollar DVD player more then a decade ago. For a finale test I simple hooked up a pair of balanced cables, left the sub set to on and start to switch between the oppo as the decoder and source and the Integra..... and I could not hear what I would call a lot of difference.

My issue is not with Integra. Its a great unit, sounds wonderful and does just about anything I ask. My point is if.... and this is up to you but if.... you are going to go out and spend the extra money on that new Blu Ray release of the best new movie out there mixed in 24/96 Master DTS..... you really ok that under the covers its being down mixed to 48kHz. What if it took all those blu ray discs and dumped them down to 420p you ok with that..... you still buying the blu rays and the imports and the new releases of all those movies you have in HI DEF.

It not just about sample rates and input output, for me its about paying a premium for content and then basically not being able to access it.

My only point is that I am shocked that while I can play anything when I pay a premium for a new "hi rez" recording or even a movie you need to play really close attention to what is really being mixed at the head unit cause it may not be what you are thinking it is nor reflective of the premium you pay. Go pay the extra 5 bucks for an iTunes hi def rental then run it on your first gen iPad..... was it worth the extra $ cause iPad v1 does not do 1080 and you aint never going to see it on a 9 inch screen.
post #3572 of 3823
?

I don't think we missed each other at all.

The workaround is to have the player decode DSD/MLP and output PCM. Then the receiver/processor can do Audyssey.

I am not certain that DTS-HD Master Audio (or Dolby TrueHD) at higher rates doesn't have the same issue as DSD/MLP. I never looked.

SACD is not dead at all. DVD-A is limping, but there are still titles being released.

Jeff
post #3573 of 3823
Sorry.... we are. I have setup the player and my PC to decode DSD to LPMC and in all cases it comes up basically as DVD quality audio..... that is the point I am trying to make you aint getting what you think you are getting. Work around it fine if the work around worked on the Integra I would not have started this. If I pass off LPMC to the Integra at 96kHz I get 48Khz to the Dac's. That is where I am trying to tell you we miss.

You got the setting pass them on. The Oppo and My PC both can and have done this with other Dac's. With the integra there is a consistent downgrade of sample rate. Test it..... go actually look at what you are getting. I have over the last 2 weeks with every combo you can name and over and over and over the Integra basically says... yes ... wonderful input.... now let me resample at 44 or 48.
post #3574 of 3823
Hey Guys,

I've been reading the thread and I haven't had a real chance to do the Audyssey setup so when I got home and quickly plugged in the mic and started. Only then did I notice that I don't see the menu or anything for that matter on my projector screen. All HDMI Inputs work, but no OSD and no Setup Menu. I search on this thread if anyone had any issues. I've had it on Through since I got it and before the Theater, on the TV, I remember it working. On the Panny, nothing. I've tried multiple resolutions and still nothing.

Anything else I can try or do to get it to work? Without this process, I can't save my configurations when doing the Audyssey setup.

Thanks
post #3575 of 3823
Do you have the OSD turned on in the setup menu?
post #3576 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Do you have the OSD turned on in the setup menu?

Yes, I tried everything.

I decided to call Integra directly last night and even spoke with a Senior Tech, only to conclude to bring my unit to a authorized service center. What should have been an hour of audio calibration turned out to be a 3 hours troubleshooting session. Finally, I updated the firmware on the Integra as a last resort and sure enough, everything came back. I restored both the on-screen menu as well as the OSD.

I also managed to do the Audyssey calibration. All I have to say is WOW, what a great job it does. I saw a major difference. Next step this week is to try the Wides and see how it sounds.

Anyone had the chance to try the Wides yet? Perception of surround is supposed to be much better...
post #3577 of 3823
"Network" is grayed out in the menu (of my "sister" 5508).. I tried to connect over ethernet to load a Pro calibration and Pro wouldn't connect. Investigating that I found that it was not assigned an IP address by the router. Investigating that, I discovered the grayed out menu selection. Disconnected and reconnected network cable, restarted switch it's attached to, connected 5508 directly to network drop for that room and "cleared" the 5508. I have not restarted the router yet, but can do that this evening after close of business hours.

Any advice?

Jeff
post #3578 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

"Network" is grayed out in the menu (of my "sister" 5508).. I tried to connect over ethernet to load a Pro calibration and Pro wouldn't connect. Investigating that I found that it was not assigned an IP address by the router. Investigating that, I discovered the grayed out menu selection. Disconnected and reconnected network cable, restarted switch it's attached to, connected 5508 directly to network drop for that room and "cleared" the 5508. I have not restarted the router yet, but can do that this evening after close of business hours.
Any advice?
Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Are you using a patch cable or a cable you made? If you used a cable you made, I would verify the cable. The unit should be automatically be sing DHCP therefore the minute you plug it in, your router should pick it up. Make sure you have UPnP enabled on your router.

I'll have to check tonight if I disconnect my ethernet cable behind my unit to see if it will grey out my Network option.

Vince
post #3579 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by e39mofo View Post

Hey Jeff,
Are you using a patch cable or a cable you made? If you used a cable you made, I would verify the cable. The unit should be automatically be sing DHCP therefore the minute you plug it in, your router should pick it up. Make sure you have UPnP enabled on your router.
I'll have to check tonight if I disconnect my ethernet cable behind my unit to see if it will grey out my Network option.
Vince

Vince, it is a purchased ethernet cable and the one that has been working as recently as last week. Plus I plugged the unit into the "drop" for the room bypassing the switch in my rack. The light on the switch lights ... goes on and off as I turn the unit on and off. But it is not being assigned an IP address by the router's DHCP.
post #3580 of 3823
When my HDMI board went out, the complete Network area disappeared from my unit, so I doubt that's the problem you're having. Sometimes rebooting all the network gear does fix things.
post #3581 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

When my HDMI board went out, the complete Network area disappeared from my unit, so I doubt that's the problem you're having. Sometimes rebooting all the network gear does fix things.

What a cheerful thought, Dave. Thank you. smile.gif

I will be taking the whole network down and back up tonight.
post #3582 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What a cheerful thought, Dave. Thank you. smile.gif

LOL
post #3583 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by e39mofo View Post

Anyone had the chance to try the Wides yet? Perception of surround is supposed to be much better...

I have changed to wides on my 80.3 and what a difference it makes!

I turned off my rears and bought two new speakers for the wides, I will never go back now. The whole experience is fuller, more involving and way more exciting, everyone notices the improvement.
post #3584 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I have changed to wides on my 80.3 and what a difference it makes!
I turned off my rears and bought two new speakers for the wides, I will never go back now. The whole experience is fuller, more involving and way more exciting, everyone notices the improvement.

I think it depends on the room and the system. I have tall, dipolar speakers for main l/r that throw a large sound stage up front. I tried high/wide speakers and did not notice any advantage. I think they would be more beneficial with standard monopole speakers.
post #3585 of 3823
Well. I rebooted everything and it's still grayed out. After the "Clear" I still have my Audyssey Pro calibration which is good as I have guests coming over the holidays. After that, I can try a cold reboot. This will wipe my calibration, but if it fixes the networking I can reload. If it doesn't fix it, then back to Onk it goes anyway.

Jeff
post #3586 of 3823
Is the networking green light working on the back of the unit? If not, your network port is dead and it will have to go in for service.
post #3587 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Is the networking green light working on the back of the unit? If not, your network port is dead and it will have to go in for service.

Ah ha! That's a handy thing to know. I just turned in for the evening, but tomorrow I will use a hand mirror to check.

Thanks, Dave!

Jeff
post #3588 of 3823
Hey folks..
Can you help me make a decision?.

I've been reading some very good reviews about oppo 105 and trying to decide whether it would make sense for me to buy it.

I own 80.2/5508. If I get Oppo, I would be giving up on xt32 in analog mode. I'm unable to decide whether Oppo would improve the SQ beyond xt32. Have some of you had a chance to compare the two?

The other option is to get Oppo 103 and use HDMI. However, I do use sony780 blueray player and I'm uncertain about any improvement Oppo would bring just as a transport. SACD playback on sony sounds fine to me. I use Squeezebox to stream FLAC.

So the question is, would Oppo be an upgrade or a downgrade over my current setup?

Do I have to buy a separate pre-amp to get the best out of Oppo?( I read somewhere that 80.2's analog ins, although an improvement from previous model, are still not up to par).
post #3589 of 3823
This is the combo I am currently using Integra 80.2 and the oppo 105.

Overall I would suggest the oppo is a very nice step up based on my PS3 as a BluRay or music server over hdmi its not even close the oppo has a smoother sound with a good bit more detail. I have a squeezbox in the bedroom and switched to the PS3 as I thought it was better then the first gen squeezbox so that should give you a ref point.

I have a Lexicon RT 10 which was and still is a very good multi-disk player but was not Blu Ray ready, could not stream DSD and was getting a bit long in the tooth at this point so I wanted to go to one device for the home theater and the oppo will do more or less any disk you like as well as network player, netflix etc which made it an ideal one box swap for the ps3/lexicon. In comparison to the lexicon I would say its closer but still would give the nod as either a transport or player to the 105

I went and setup 3 basic configurations.
HDMI 1 will not bitstream DSD (read the fine print) so I set it up as my main movie feed. Basically HDMI1 is setup as a DVD player.
HDMI 2 will stream almost anything including DSD off of your SACD collection if you have one and so its setup as music source. I would say its about 90% stereo but I do have some surround sound music in my collection and it will do that very well as well. I have hit my home media server and pulled down music and would say its not 100% when used as a client. Its just a little to hard to get around and or get to what you want I would rather use my pc/ipad for this type of listening but its good to know that I can get to server side content.
Source 3 is setup as balanced in from the 105 and really is the same as a basic cd player in this mode. As I have small monitors I have left the sub set to on so the Integra is doing some backend work to split out the LFE channel. Even so I would call it a push between HDMI and Balanced for 2 channel stereo listening. On some recordings I really do like the simple balanced in and would say its something in the details that seem to be more present or apparent on a good stereo recording. Maybe the better oppo analog stage is making up some ground for where the Integra falls short. I have done A/B between HDMI2 and Balanced with SACD and would give a minor nod to the balanced side of the house.

I love the new oppo and would say for under 1400.00 with shipping etc its one of the better bargins I have hit in a long time in terms of digital players. I guess with my 6 year old Lexicon that may be obvious as I really did not feel the need to upgrade..... Even so no question in my mind the oppo was an upgrade. It really is a very very good player and more over it will play just about anything.
post #3590 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by atkatana View Post

I love the new oppo and would say for under 1400.00 with shipping etc its one of the better bargins I have hit in a long time in terms of digital players.
Thank you for your feedback, I'm one step closer now smile.gif. So you do not miss Audyssey processing that much when you use balanced? looks like the details in Oppo make up for it?
post #3591 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by atkatana View Post

Source 3 is setup as balanced in from the 105 and really is the same as a basic cd player in this mode. As I have small monitors I have left the sub set to on so the Integra is doing some backend work to split out the LFE channel.
So, in this case, is Integra re-digitizing the source for setting a x-over?
post #3592 of 3823
The balanced output itself would just yield a "possibly" lower noise floor, depending on your system. The longer the run of the interconnect the more it may help over single ended connections.

The possibly better dacs from the analog outs of the 105 MAY be something you can sonically pick up on, and a BLIND test would likely be needed for you to make a true decision. Otherwise you will think you hear something that isn't there because you already think you will due to the DACS being "better".

BUT - having said that, if you are giving up Audyssey, which has an effect on what can REALLY change what you here, i.e. your room, then I think that is a bad tradeoff. If you have Audyssey set up how you like it and you think it does something for your sound, then you would be taking a step backwards to move to a setup that forces you to have it off.

Audyssey has its detractors, of course, so that is why I say "if you have it set up in a way that you like what it does to the sound" .... there are other room eq systems out there... but most are $$$.

But in the end, what you hear when you listen to your system is its interaction with your room. Money is best spent on treatments, more subs, EQ, and the best speakers you can afford. The difference between DACS these days is minute compared to the difference your room makes. The 105 is great, but I would buy it for features, etc, not the DACS and balanced output, unless the rest of your room is so well balanced and set up that "the last mile" makes a real difference to you.
post #3593 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Is the networking green light working on the back of the unit? If not, your network port is dead and it will have to go in for service.

My Oppo's network connectivity lights are easy to see when they are off, but I looked on the back of the 5508 with a hand mirror and didn't see where the light should be. (None were visible when connected either.) I am consulting a manual and hi-res image of the rear.
post #3594 of 3823
Looking at the front of the pre/pro, it should be on the same side as the volume knob (right). If there aren't any lights back there (should be either green or amber...I can't remember and I'm reviewing an Outlaw 975 right now that's in the rack), then something is amiss with the network connection and "may" be a prelude to the HDMI board going south on you (I believe they are all on the same circuit board.).
post #3595 of 3823
My network area being grayed out was one of the signs I needed a new HDMI board.
post #3596 of 3823
Yes my best estimate would suggest that the input is most likely going through at least one more ADA conversion on the Integra at least for bass. If I read the manual correct with analog in and sub set to on it may well allow the front left right to play full range and then split of the LFE signal as I do not see a seperate set of settings for it. Its just not clear to me as the setting is a single on/off option.

Bottom line my room is well treated and sounded ok without correction. In testing I like EQ on overall and would suggest it makes a difference even if minor. My monitors are clean down to about 50 and then roll off so no sub is sort of a none starter for me. While not ideal from a pure 2 channel point of view its working for me so far. I would love to simply hear the 105 but it was the best compromise setup I have come up with to date that sort of lets me have it all. With balanced in I can turn off the display and really just listen which may also have an impact on the impression of a bit more detail.

Again overall I would simply say its a very good player and has so much flex in setup I cannot imagine you will fall short of getting what you want from it. At this point I am thinking about 103 to the HT and a move of the 105 to the 2 channel system but that will have to wait a bit till after the holiday bills are paid off. So if it helps I think that much of what I am hearing so far from the oppo's so far.
post #3597 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

Looking at the front of the pre/pro, it should be on the same side as the volume knob (right). If there aren't any lights back there (should be either green or amber...I can't remember and I'm reviewing an Outlaw 975 right now that's in the rack), then something is amiss with the network connection and "may" be a prelude to the HDMI board going south on you (I believe they are all on the same circuit board.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by hifiaudio2 View Post

My network area being grayed out was one of the signs I needed a new HDMI board.

"I've got a bad feeling about this." smile.gif

Just got off with Onkyo. There is definitely a problem, and my unit is still under warranty. The guy told me that even if I am not connected to a network, the network area of the menu should not be grayed out. Nest call is to the authorized center, closest is Balto. Depending on their turnaround time, I might wait until our holiday guests depart.

Jeff
post #3598 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

"I've got a bad feeling about this." smile.gif
Just got off with Onkyo. There is definitely a problem, and my unit is still under warranty. The guy told me that even if I am not connected to a network, the network area of the menu should not be grayed out. Nest call is to the authorized center, closest is Balto. Depending on their turnaround time, I might wait until our holiday guests depart.
Jeff

Hey Jeff,
When I called Onkyo/Integra for support, I spoke with a Senior Tech for over 35mins and the bottom line that they told me was to go send it for repair. I was convinced that it wasn't it. The only thing I did was update the firmware and everything suddenly came back. I appreciate their support but my persistence in trying to find the problem myself saved me from bringing in my unit during the holidays and loosing it for some time.

Do you have the latest firmware on their?

Vince
post #3599 of 3823
Quote:
Originally Posted by e39mofo View Post

Hey Jeff,
When I called Onkyo/Integra for support, I spoke with a Senior Tech for over 35mins and the bottom line that they told me was to go send it for repair. I was convinced that it wasn't it. The only thing I did was update the firmware and everything suddenly came back. I appreciate their support but my persistence in trying to find the problem myself saved me from bringing in my unit during the holidays and loosing it for some time.
Do you have the latest firmware on their?
Vince

I think it is up to date, but now that I search my files I can't find any firmware saved anywhere. Still, there is something wrong and I'll feel better after an authorized center checks it out. My luck, a firmweare flash would fix it ... until the warranty expires. I'll drive it down to the Balto center the day our holiday guests leave. Two weeks after that, I head to Mexico for two weeks. If they get it fixed before that, fine. If not, that's fine as well.
post #3600 of 3823
I finally calibrated my system and love it. XT32 is simply phenomenal. Since it's the holidays and had some time off, I decided to try out Audyssey DSX (Wides Only). I really enjoy it. I think my room is too long and doesn't work as well for placement in a theater with two rows. Nevertheless, I really like it, but I am not getting 9.2, only 7.2 including the wides. My Surround Backs aren't playing and yes they are activated in the setup menu.

Any tips on how I can get DSX to play 9.2 w/ the wides on?
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