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The Official Integra DHC-80.2 Pre/Pro Thread - Page 4

post #91 of 3723
9/29/10 at 3:01pm
With all the contrary posts and my own experience, I question whether you got a good audyessey session
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post #92 of 3723
9/29/10 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

I found with Audyssey my 5.1 system was good, but somewhat flat in the high end, and low end.

I did a test on a blu-ray concert with Audyssey on and then off. I noticed quite a bit more detail in the high end, and better bass in the low end, with Audyssey off.

I also liked the sound with a little more manual adjustment on the equalizer section. This is just my preference.

I like to use Audyssey to initially set up all the distances/spl etc, but turn it off after that.

It all boils down to listening preferences.

Maybe the Audyssey xt32 is better for preserving the high end. It would be nice to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JackBarry View Post

With all the contrary posts and my own experience, I question whether you got a good Audyssey session

Hi adol290,

With my sig being what it is, one might be inclined to dismiss me as an unabashed Audyssey fanboy. I am one of those, but it is because I have heard what it can do in my theater and those of a few local fellow HT nuts.

Having said that, I have to agree with JackBarry. Linked in my sig is a setup guide that has the accumulation of the little tips and tricks that users - happy users - have assembled all in one place. I would encourage you to read it, give it another try and post your experience in the Official Audyssey thread. If you still have problems, that is where you can get the best help.

Jeff
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post #93 of 3723
9/30/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Hi adol290,

With my sig being what it is, one might be inclined to dismiss me as an unabashed Audyssey fanboy. I am one of those, but it is because I have heard what it can do in my theater and those of a few local fellow HT nuts.

Having said that, I have to agree with JackBarry. Linked in my sig is a setup guide that has the accumulation of the little tips and tricks that users - happy users - have assembled all in one place. I would encourage you to read it, give it another try and post your experience in the Official Audyssey thread. If you still have problems, that is where you can get the best help.

Jeff

Thanks, I have read step by step instructions.

There are a couple of points that I have not tried.

My couch is about a foot higher than my ear position. I have been measuring at ear height, and about a foot forward from the back of the couch. This could be a problem. The doc states

"If the seat back is higher than ear height, ensure the microphone is raised above the seat back."

BUT, this would place the microphone about a foot higher than ear level? If find this confusing.


Also the Audyssey target curves are set automatically as i own an Integra 9.8. I noticed it states

"The Audyssey or Audyssey Reference target curve is designed to translate film mixing room conditions to the home listening room. This curve is flat to 4 kHz, has a slight roll-off from 4kHz - 10 kHz (-2dB @ 10 kHz), and another additional roll-off from 10 kHz - 20 kHz (-6dB @ 20 kHz)"

The roll-off from 4-10 bothers me a bit but the roll-off from 10 -20 I really dislike. These are the ranges that i was manually bumping up, about +2db in the 4-10 and +3-4 in the 10-20.

It looks like I could run in the THX mode, and that would not produce any roll-off. I was never too crazy about this mode.

As for the low end, I have found it easier to make adjustments to help resolve the roll-off.
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post #94 of 3723
9/30/10 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

Thanks, I have read step by step instructions.

There are a couple of points that I have not tried.

My couch is about a foot higher than my ear position. I have been measuring at ear height, and about a foot forward from the back of the couch. This could be a problem. The doc states

"If the seat back is higher than ear height, ensure the microphone is raised above the seat back."

BUT, this would place the microphone about a foot higher than ear level? If find this confusing.


Also the Audyssey target curves are set automatically as i own an Integra 9.8. I noticed it states

"The Audyssey or Audyssey Reference target curve is designed to translate film mixing room conditions to the home listening room. This curve is flat to 4 kHz, has a slight roll-off from 4kHz - 10 kHz (-2dB @ 10 kHz), and another additional roll-off from 10 kHz - 20 kHz (-6dB @ 20 kHz)"

The roll-off from 4-10 bothers me a bit but the roll-off from 10 -20 I really dislike. These are the ranges that i was manually bumping up, about +2db in the 4-10 and +3-4 in the 10-20.

It looks like I could run in the THX mode, and that would not produce any roll-off. I was never too crazy about this mode.

As for the low end, I have found it easier to make adjustments to help resolve the roll-off.

You realize that when you turn on the equalizer for your "manually bumping up", you turn off Audyssey, right? So the Audyssey target curve is no longer applicable when you do that.
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post #95 of 3723
9/30/10 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

You realize that when you turn on the equalizer for your "manually bumping up", you turn off Audyssey, right? So the Audyssey target curve is no longer applicable when you do that.

Yes,

because I do not like the default curve.

But I still have all my distances/crossover and SPL levels that were set by audyssey.
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post #96 of 3723
9/30/10 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

Thanks, I have read step by step instructions.

There are a couple of points that I have not tried.

My couch is about a foot higher than my ear position. I have been measuring at ear height, and about a foot forward from the back of the couch. This could be a problem. The doc states

"If the seat back is higher than ear height, ensure the microphone is raised above the seat back."

BUT, this would place the microphone about a foot higher than ear level? If find this confusing.

If your couch is against a wall, then it gets even more "confusing." Measurements should be at least 2'-3' from any wall. The raise the mic above the seat back recommendation is so that it "sees" all of the speakers. Your ears should see all of the speakers as well, but that gets into seating design.


Quote:
Also the Audyssey target curves are set automatically as i own an Integra 9.8. I noticed it states

"The Audyssey or Audyssey Reference target curve is designed to translate film mixing room conditions to the home listening room. This curve is flat to 4 kHz, has a slight roll-off from 4kHz - 10 kHz (-2dB @ 10 kHz), and another additional roll-off from 10 kHz - 20 kHz (-6dB @ 20 kHz)"

The roll-off from 4-10 bothers me a bit but the roll-off from 10 -20 I really dislike. These are the ranges that i was manually bumping up, about +2db in the 4-10 and +3-4 in the 10-20.

It looks like I could run in the THX mode, and that would not produce any roll-off. I was never too crazy about this mode.

As for the low end, I have found it easier to make adjustments to help resolve the roll-off.

I have the sister Onkyo Pro 885 and I do not use the kludgy workaround to engage Audyssey Flat.

I have a Pro kit and the ability to edit the target curve as I see fit. I will tell you that I tried boosting the upper end but found that it was too bright and bitey. The Audyssey Curve is what it is for a reason and that reason is that flat might seem like the best curve, but measuring flat and sounding flat are not the same.

As for the low end, how close is your couch - and measurements - to the wall?

Jeff
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post #97 of 3723
9/30/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If your couch is against a wall, then it gets even more "confusing." Measurements should be at least 2'-3' from any wall. The raise the mic above the seat back recommendation is so that it "sees" all of the speakers. Your ears should see all of the speakers as well, but that gets into seating design.



I have the sister Onkyo Pro 885 and I do not use the kludgy workaround to engage Audyssey Flat.

I have a Pro kit and the ability to edit the target curve as I see fit. I will tell you that I tried boosting the upper end but found that it was too bright and bitey. The Audyssey Curve is what it is for a reason and that reason is that flat might seem like the best curve, but measuring flat and sounding flat are not the same.

As for the low end, how close is your couch - and measurements - to the wall?

Jeff

My couch is about 9.5 feet from the front speakers and about 10.5 feet from the front of each subwoofer(i have 2 subs and they are up front on each side of the R/L speakers.

The distance behind the couch to the back wall is about 5 feet.
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post #98 of 3723
9/30/10 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

My couch is about 9.5 feet from the front speakers and about 10.5 feet from the front of each subwoofer(i have 2 subs and they are up front on each side of the R/L speakers.

The distance behind the couch to the back wall is about 5 feet.

OK, that's certainly plenty of distance.

Could it be a matter of not being familiar with what flat bass sounds like? Many people, when hearing a system with reduced/eliminated room resonances - peaks mainly - feel like the bass is anemic. The downside of getting rid or room resonances is that perhaps a nice fat peak coincided with a kick drum (or explosion) and reducing that makes the bass seem weak. The upside, and what we eventually get used to, is hearing every note from a bass guitar at the level that it was played. Getting rid of peaks takes away the "one note" sound of a system, and reducing nulls means that certain notes don't disappear.

Just throwing that all out there. Maybe you are familiar with flat bass response and just prefer a boosted bottom end.

Just one more question .. did you take all eight measurements allowed by your 9.8? If so, I can only suggest that, beyond measuring in the seating positions themselves, that you move the remaining measurement position around a bit ... randomize them.

Jeff
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post #99 of 3723
9/30/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

OK, that's certainly plenty of distance.

Could it be a matter of not being familiar with what flat bass sounds like? Many people, when hearing a system with reduced/eliminated room resonances - peaks mainly - feel like the bass is anemic. The downside of getting rid or room resonances is that perhaps a nice fat peak coincided with a kick drum (or explosion) and reducing that makes the bass seem weak. The upside, and what we eventually get used to, is hearing every note from a bass guitar at the level that it was played. Getting rid of peaks takes away the "one note" sound of a system, and reducing nulls means that certain notes don't disappear.

Just throwing that all out there. Maybe you are familiar with flat bass response and just prefer a boosted bottom end.

Just one more question .. did you take all eight measurements allowed by your 9.8? If so, I can only suggest that, beyond measuring in the seating positions themselves, that you move the remaining measurement position around a bit ... randomize them.

Jeff

I was doing only 6. Can try 8, with a couple random.
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post #100 of 3723
9/30/10 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

I was doing only 6. Can try 8, with a couple random.

Please give it a try. There are people who do not decide that it is a net improvement in their system, but they are rare. Unfortunately, it is not as automatic as it is sometimes portrayed to be.

Jeff
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post #101 of 3723
9/30/10 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adol290 View Post

Yes,

because I do not like the default curve.

But I still have all my distances/crossover and SPL levels that were set by audyssey.

Perhaps I am confused - I thought you said that you were
Quote:


the ranges that i was manually bumping up, about +2db in the 4-10 and +3-4 in the 10-20.

The point is when you do that with the equalizer, you are no longer compensating for the Audyssey curve, but are instead boosting those frequency regions above the nominally flat FR of the 9.8 - you're just goosing the high end up.
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post #102 of 3723
9/30/10 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Perhaps I am confused - I thought you said that you were

The point is when you do that with the equalizer, you are no longer compensating for the Audyssey curve, but are instead boosting those frequency regions above the nominally flat FR of the 9.8 - you're just goosing the high end up.

Correct, I like the high end goosed up a bit.

Don't forget that the distances/crossover and SPL levels that were set by audyssey are still active, after you turn off Audyssey.
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post #103 of 3723
9/30/10 at 3:53pm
I've been looking hard at the DHC 80.2.

Today, I enlarged a photo of the back panel and noticed that there are not only two subwoofer outputs in the Main Zone, there are two more: one in Zone 2 and one in Zone 3.

So, I was wondering if a determined HT nut (me, for instance ) might utilize the Zone 2 and/or Zone 3 sub output in an audio system with more than two subwoofers? I understand that the two other zones are designed as auxiliaries to distribute audio to other rooms, but...well, why not use one of the sub outs for a third subwoofer in your HT?

I'm wondering about this possibility because I'm using three subs now, and it's been nice that my current audio processor has three subwoofer outputs.

There may be something in the architecture of the DHC 80.2 that would prevent this kind of set-up, but if so, I'm not aware of it.


Tom
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post #104 of 3723
9/30/10 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Hilton View Post

I've been looking hard at the DHC 80.2.

Today, I enlarged a photo of the back panel and noticed that there are not only two subwoofer outputs in the Main Zone, there are two more: one in Zone 2 and one in Zone 3.

So, I was wondering if a determined HT nut (me, for instance ) might utilize the Zone 2 and/or Zone 3 sub output in an audio system with more than two subwoofers? I understand that the two other zones are designed as auxiliaries to distribute audio to other rooms, but...well, why not use one of the sub outs for a third subwoofer in your HT?

I'm wondering about this possibility because I'm using three subs now, and it's been nice that my current audio processor has three subwoofer outputs.

There may be something in the architecture of the DHC 80.2 that would prevent this kind of set-up, but if so, I'm not aware of it.


Tom

Tom, I'd bet that there would need to be something to allow using an output intended for a different zone. I do know that Audyssey doesn't correct zones other than the main one.

Jeff
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post #105 of 3723
9/30/10 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Tom, I'd bet that there would need to be something to allow using an output intended for a different zone. I do know that Audyssey doesn't correct zones other than the main one.

Jeff

"I do know that Audyssey doesn't correct zones other than the main one."

That's really what I was concerned about---I didn't know how Audyssey would react to an output from an auxiliary zone. Of course, I could also get three outputs by using a signal splitter on one of the main sub outs. Do you think that splitting a signal between two subs would in any way confuse an Audyssey set-up (i.e., two subwoofers driven by the same signal but reproducing the sound from different room locations)?


Tom
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post #106 of 3723
10/1/10 at 6:28am
I'm using a splitter with two subs and my 9.9, and it doesn't seem to be a problem. The benefit of the 80.2 is that it can calibrate up to two subs independently. So if I upgraded, I would get separate calibrations for my two subs. For you, one of your subs would be calibrated on its own and the other pair using the splitter would share the same Audyssey settings. It might help to experiment with how you pair the subs too.
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post #107 of 3723
10/1/10 at 7:15am
Actually, the benefit of the 80.2 is that it sets independent distances and level for two sub channels, and then corrects them as one.

"Calibrating" them individually, the way all multi-sub out AVRs and pre/pros do without XT 32/Sub EQ HT, corrects each sub based on its interaction with the room. Correcting two subs - or sub channels - as one corrects them based on their interaction with the room and each other.

Audyssey handles setting the distance and levels of the two channels. If more than one sub is on a channel, the user must level match them. And since there is no way to account for different distances (from the first measurement position), that is why the recommendation is that they be equidistant from that first measurement position.

Jeff
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post #108 of 3723
10/1/10 at 7:58am
Yes, you're right. It's more sophisticated than what I implied.

So with 3 subs, Audyssey would not be able to account for the interaction between the two subs that share an output. But it will treat them as a single sub and try to account for their overall interaction with the solo sub.
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post #109 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangala8 View Post

Yes, you're right. It's more sophisticated than what I implied.

So with 3 subs, Audyssey would not be able to account for the interaction between the two subs that share an output. But it will treat them as a single sub and try to account for their overall interaction with the solo sub.

I think it would be correct to say that Audyssey would account for all of the subs and their interactions with the room and each other. But I don't think the algorithm knows or cares how many subs there are, it just does its thing and produces the best results/flattest response that it can.

Jeff
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post #110 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:48am
Trying to get ARC to work with my Panasonic G20 Plasma, no luck so far. I think my HDMI cabel dont support ARC. Now a have a good reson to tell my wife i need to upgrade the cabels
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post #111 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:50am
Arc?
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post #112 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:50am
Audio Return Channel
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post #113 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by meller127 View Post

Audio Return Channel

Thanks. I need to get out more.

You want to use the TV tuner as the source and send audio through your system via the HDMI that carries video to the display when using a non-TV source?

Jeff
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post #114 of 3723
10/1/10 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Thanks. I need to get out more.

You want to use the TV tuner as the source and send audio through your system via the HDMI that carries video to the display when using a non-TV source?

Jeff

Yepp but only the internet services like youtube,facebook,twitter etc and get that sound down to the receiver.
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post #115 of 3723
10/1/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by meller127 View Post

Audio Return Channel

Correct. However, that is only in this narrow context because it can also mean "Audio Rate Control" and "Anthem Room Correction." No doubt there are more meanings for this acronym.
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post #116 of 3723
10/1/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Correct. However, that is only in this narrow context because it can also mean "Audio Rate Control" and "Anthem Room Correction." No doubt there are more meanings for this acronym.

Context is everything.
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post #117 of 3723
10/1/10 at 12:01pm
Does the DHC 80.2 have HDMI v1.4 or 1.3? Looks like on the website it is 1.3.
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post #118 of 3723
10/1/10 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethomas View Post

Does the DHC 80.2 have HDMI v1.4 or 1.3? Looks like on the website it is 1.3.

I don't think it is on the website. The datasheet says 1.4a.

Jeff
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post #119 of 3723
10/1/10 at 12:11pm
thanks Jeff
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post #120 of 3723
10/1/10 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangala8 View Post

Yes, you're right. It's more sophisticated than what I implied.

So with 3 subs, Audyssey would not be able to account for the interaction between the two subs that share an output. But it will treat them as a single sub and try to account for their overall interaction with the solo sub.

I was thinking, if one had four subs, with both pairs being equidistant and opposite walls, that calibration could work like this:

1) Connect the first pair, and use Sub EQ HT to level match them.
2) Connect the second pair, and use Sub EQ HT to level match them.
3) Connect both pairs (with Y connectors) and use Sub EQ HT as designed.

If this works, then both pairs will be level matched, calibrated, and then summed output of both pairs would be calibrated. Probably not ideal, but it should work.

Mark
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