AMD Zacate - the next great HTPC chip?

Originally Posted by renethx

At least this is much better than Atom+ION. Zacate-based systems slated to hit the market in Q1 2011.

The AMD counterpart of Sandy Bridge desktop processor is Llano, which is slated for summer 2011.

Zacate seems to provide the same performance boost that we saw with Sandy Bridge in our preview.

Originally Posted by jeffkro

Sandy Bridge looks to be a high performance part with a system idle of about 60W for the quadcore.

Hi Ivo. It’s going to get harder and harder to do apples-to-apples comparisons using old benchmarks. With software devlopers using DirectCompute and OpenCL to access GPU computing, and web developers using Direct2D and WebGL to give a sharper graphics-rich Internet experience, how do you measure the “speed” of an APU using old CPU benchmarks like Sysmark or PCMark? The Internet is moving from a place rendered poorly by CPUs, to one rednered vivdly and fast by APUs and GPUs. A notebook or desktop based on the “Zacate” APU, for instance, will give an accelerated Internet experience, play 1080p video, accelerate productivity apps like PowerPoint 2010, play on-line games at HD resoluitions. The “Llano” APU will deliver an even higher experience level. Which Intel products will compete with “Zacate” and “Llano”? Which ones utilize a world-class DX11 GPU complex, again?

Originally Posted by renethx

Well, Sandy Bridge includes a broad range of processors, from ones for MP servers (Westmere-EX, 10 cores) to laptops (dual core). The desktop Sandy Bridge processors are:

	Clock	Core	Threading	L3 cache	TB 2.0	TDP
Core i7-2600	3.4GHz	4	8	8MB	Yes	95W
Core i5-2500	3.3GHz	4	4	6MB	Yes	95W
Core i5-2400	3.1GHz	4	4	6MB	Yes	95W
Core i3-2120	3.3GHz	2	4	3MB	No	65W
Core i3-2100	3.1GHz	2	4	3MB	No	65W

The current Core i3-530/540 (one of the best processors for HTPC) will be replaced by Core i3-2100/2120, that are available in January 2011. The idle power of a Core i3-530 system is as low as 22W. I expect ever lower in Core i3-2100 as it's a single 32nm die.

- Core i7-860/870 -> Core i7-2600, ~$300
- Core i5-750 -> Core i5-2400/2500, $150-$230
- Core i3-530/540 -> Core i3-2100/2120, $100-$150
- Pentium -> Pentium, $60-$100
- Celeron -> Celeron, < $60

Yes, there are also Celeron and Pentium processors based on Sandy Bridge (Q2 2011).

Originally Posted by jeffkro

I would say that us HTPC guys are probably best off with the the dual core i3 if going for sandy bridge. Quad core is way overkill, even for moderate gamers. I'm still totally up in the air with which one I will eventually buy. Whoever gets the lowest power setup that will play all multimedia without the slightest hickup or pauses and supports full HDMI specs will get my purchase.

Originally Posted by Defcon

- very small and low heat means very little cooling and a quiet fan
- 18W TDP - very low power
- the gpu does 1080p, is an extremely fast DX11 part, and can play games (!), and accelerate flash/html5/other apps (using OpenCL). AMD IGP's are much better than Intel's anemic offerings

Originally Posted by ES_Revenge

Uh now by "extremely" fast, you do mean relative to other on-board video types, right? Because at 18W TDP I don't think we're talking 5970 speed here LOL

Originally Posted by ES_Revenge

As an aside, I wonder if the "Ontario" codename pays homage to the city Ontario, California (AMD is based in California), or the province of Ontario, Canada (where ATi originated)? Or perhaps both?

Originally Posted by renethx

Any idea where is Zacate?

Originally Posted by HDGT

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3933/a...ormance-update

AMD got caught lying about Zacate's performance and got busted for it by Anandtech.

Originally Posted by ES_Revenge

LOL it's funny the way you worded that, because after I actually read the article that's not what I took away from it at all. They didn't lie they just used an older driver because that's what was current at the time from the manufacturer.

Also another good note is the point about Intel-provided graphics drivers not working on 3rd party products. I encountered the same thing when making an i3/H57 system with a Gigabyte board for someone not long ago--only the Gigabyte-provided version of the driver (which was older) would install normally. Going to Intel's site and using their driver updater ActiveX control thingy, it stated to dl Intel's newest driver. But trying to install it, it refused. I didn't actually think of doing what Anandtech did in using device manager to manually force the driver, I just installed the Gigabyte version and that was that. It seems this is a common/standard limitation with Intel IGP now--they are making it so the driver package from Intel's site won't install normally. Can't really blame AMD for that.

Furthermore Anandtech made some comments noting how cooperative AMD was with the whole informal testing process they did as well as being fine with them publishing the results on what is otherwise a totally unreleased/pre-production product.

The Zacate GPU performance we're seeing here today is completely unoptimized as well. The clocks aren't final, drivers aren't fine tuned and although we're close to release, there's still potentially more performance on the table.

It's very rare for any public company to make an on the spot decision to let us benchmark and publish test data of an unreleased part without having ever seen it before. The first time the AMDers in the suite saw Zacate running Batman was when we installed it. To be honest, it was probably the most open and flexible I've ever seen AMD be. I knew if the IE9 numbers changed that it would call the City of Heroes numbers into question. By allowing us to rerun everything as well as add an additional title (one that we've used more recently) AMD handled the situation perfectly.

Originally Posted by renethx

Zacate Fusion works at 1.6GHz

Zacate/Ontario supports a single channel DDR3 memory interface, supporting low-voltage (1.35V) memory.

Originally Posted by Defcon

Btw another great nettop/htpc would be the Intel CE4200 SOC which sadly willnever be a customer OEM part and is only for CE devices.

Originally Posted by zicoz

I think it all comes down to audio-support at this point, who will support bitstreaming?

For low-power desktops, which are often called nettops, and thin clients AMD will offer dual-core Zacate E350 and single-core Zacate E240 microprocessors with integrated DirectX 11 graphics core with UVD 3.0 video engine, single-channel PC3-10600 (DDR 1333MHz) memory controller and 18W TDP, according to sources familiar with AMD's plans. The chips will come in BGA FT1 package and will be soldered to mainboards.

AMD Brazos platform for desktops will consist of AMD Fusion accelerated processing unit (APU) code-named Zacate as well as code-named Hudson D1 fusion controller hub, which will connect to processor using PCI Express 2.0 x4 bus and will support 4 PCIe x1 ports, PCI bus, 6 Serial ATA-300 ports, 14 USB 2.0 ports as well as integrated clock-generator. The part does not support RAID, Gigabit Ethernet and other capabilities, hence, Brazos platform will hardly be suitable for commercial desktops without additional chips.