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JVC 2011 models & MSRP: RS40 50 60 & HD250. - Page 54  

post #1591 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

What could be a concern is that, if I understand this correctly, JVC is using a difference color temp for 3D. This color temp is based on what light is let in by their 3D glasses.

So, if the actual 3D glasses do have a different lens filter color, will the color temp used by the projector still be accurate? How does one know if the two different types of glasses have the same color filtering?

I agree, but I am hoping this guy, who shall not be named until I know he is not in any NDA trouble, is telling the truth as far as the Universal X103 glasses being 100% compatible with the new JVC 3D projectors. Then this would explain what you were saying about the glasses being on or off which will account for the different filter/glass colors on both pictures.
post #1592 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

No, in the case of owning an HDMI 1.3 AV receiver and/or 3D players with two HDMI 1.3 outs, you will have one HDMI out dedicated for audio going to your AV receiver, and one HDMI out dedicated to 3D video going to your projector. Now for the other HDMI devices connected to your AV receiver, you can either unplug the projector's HDMI run from the 3D BD player and plug that cable into your AVR's Monitor Out, or you can buy a 1080P lossless HDMI switcher which will allow you to connect both the 3D HDMI out and the Monitor Out from the AVR into it, and some of these HDMI switchers will have a remote to switch. So either switch the projector cable back and forth between your AVR and 3D BD player, or buy an DMI switch.

And in the case of the PS3, you will only have one hdmi out (1.3) so you will be stuck with having lossy audio next to your 3D video. Now I am not sure if we can just pass-thru the HD audio with the 3D to the receiver to let the receiver pass the 3D video to the projector while decoding the HD audio internally within the receiver. Not sure if the PS3 would at least allowing the pass-thru of HD audio with the 3D video.

My advice, will be to avoid the headache and buy a new HDMI 1.4a AV Receiver and they sell from $300-$2000, as well as a 1.4a ready BD player which will sell between $200-$500. So potentially you can save yourself the hassle and spend about $500-$1000 and you will be on a 100% HDMI 1.4a set up to go along with your shiny JVC 3D projector.

Now of course, money doesn't grow on trees, and if spending more money is an issue then go with option #1, by switching the HDMI run tot he projector between the AVR's monitor out and the 3D BD player HDMI out.

You would only need to do manual switching if using more than one 3d device though (assuming the PS3 can pass the 3d signal through the 1.3 pre/pro, it does not count)

I just cant justify spending ~$2000 on another pre/pro just so I can do my 3d switching. I figure getting a $500 Oppo (or other dual HDMI blu ray 3d player) for those that have otherwise perfectly good high quality 1.3 pre/pros or receivers is MUCH more practical. I figure one RS40 HDMI port for the HDMI out on my pre/pro which will handle DVD, HD-DVD, Xbox, PS3, etc......and use the other HDMI on the RS40 for your 3d/blu ray player (and of course run the 2nd HDMI to the pre/pro for HD audio). Of course if you have 3d cable as well, then you might have to do some manual switching, but that sounds much better IMO then dropping big $$$ on a new pre/pro or receiver just to accomodate 3d. Just my thoughts though
post #1593 of 8828
The glasses can`t make it D65. If they did, it would have no the extra brightness generated in the 3D mode. The colors will be wrong in 3D. You can fix the flesh tones to make the wrongness not so obvious. But if you calibrate it through the glasses to make d65, it will much dimmer.
post #1594 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

You would only need to do manual switching if using more than one 3d device though (assuming the PS3 can pass the 3d signal through the 1.3 pre/pro, it does not count)

I just cant justify spending ~$2000 on another pre/pro just so I can do my 3d switching. I figure getting a $500 Oppo (or other dual HDMI blu ray 3d player) for those that have otherwise perfectly good high quality 1.3 pre/pros or receivers is MUCH more practical. I figure one RS40 HDMI port for the HDMI out on my pre/pro which will handle DVD, HD-DVD, Xbox, PS3, etc......and use the other HDMI on the RS40 for your 3d/blu ray player (and of course run the 2nd HDMI to the pre/pro for HD audio). Of course if you have 3d cable as well, then you might have to do some manual switching, but that sounds much better IMO then dropping big $$$ on a new pre/pro or receiver just to accomodate 3d. Just my thoughts though

I agree Todd, but I always find myself much happier with the latest Denon AV receiver every 2-3 years, and like I said I did not only get it just for the 3D value, plus I spent less than half the amount of the $2000 MSRP of the Denon 4311 once I got it for a good street price, minus the $600 I got from selling my existing Denon 3808. It's still a big chunk of cash, but it's no $2000, more like $900 total for a brand spanking new and massive Denon 4311 when it's all said and done. In my book, that's a pretty darn good upgrade
post #1595 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I agree Todd, but I always find myself much happier with the latest Denon AV receiver every 2-3 years, and like I said I did not only get it just for the 3D value, plus I spent less than half the amount of the $2000 MSRP of the Denon 4311 once I got it for a good street price, minus the $600 I got from selling my existing Denon 3808. It's still a big chunk of cash, but it's no $2000, more like $900 total for a brand spanking new and massive Denon 4311 when it's all said and done. In my book, that's a pretty darn good upgrade


Agreed. I was not talking about your situation in particular (congrats on selling your Denon by the way!), just general thoughts The ~$2000 figure was in respect to what I would have to spend approx if doing this upgrade to get another pre/pro. For me, the thought of upgrading my 885 Onkyo just for 3d switching (there are no other features I care about with the newer versions) would not be worth it considering I should not have to do any manual switching anyway (I dont have any 3d cable channels, and even if the PS3 3d signal could not be passed through my 885, which it should, I dont mind switching that out for the few 3d games I would play) considering I can dedicate one RS40 HDMI for 3d and the other for everything else (coming out of the pre/pro).

If there were other features in the newer Onkyos that I cared about, then I could certainly see the upgrade being worth it however.

Any hits on the RS20 yet?
post #1596 of 8828
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

No. Software is still being debugged, etc. "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" did look good in 3D earlier today though.

I'll be getting more advanced samples in a couple of weeks.

Hi Gary - can you give us some feedback on the polarisation? Are the three colors all polarised at the same angle like the 550 and 950?

I've got orders in for two of these puppies if the polarisation checks out.
post #1597 of 8828
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

First, the lens color differences can be accounted by many things including temperature, reflections, glasses were powered on or off, Photoshopped colors, angle of a fill light,

...the JVC version of the image has quite clearly been photoshopped - the pars of the glasses behind the lenses have been faded out for dramatic effect - as is pretty normal in advertising - and the color of the lenses was likely changed and lightened as well.

Pretty clear it's the same technology though, based on the LED sensor in the center of the bridge of the glasses.

And it would make sense for JVC to not license the additonaly compatibility with other manufacturers' LED systems. I'm subscribing to what damsam is saying here...

Now... how do we get an emitter ?
post #1598 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Pretty clear it's the same technology though, based on the LED sensor in the center of the bridge of the glasses.

And it would make sense for JVC to not license the additonaly compatibility with other manufacturers' LED systems. I'm subscribing to what damsam is saying here...

Now... how do we get an emitter ?

I suppose we must use the $80 JVC emitter because it's designed to work with the new JVC 3D projectors, versus the XpanD x103 glasses which are universal, just speculating, but this means we have to wait until they are available, which could be weeks!!!

The good news here is that we may possibly be getting the best and fastest available active shutter glasses to work with our new JVC 3D projectors, whether we get the JVC or X103 universal glasses.
post #1599 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

I suppose we must use the $80 JVC emitter because it's designed to work with the new JVC 3D projectors, versus the XpanD x103 glasses which are universal, just speculating, but this means we have to wait until they are available, which could be weeks!!!

The good news here is that we may possibly be getting the best and fastest available active shutter glasses to work with our new JVC 3D projectors, whether we get the JVC or X103 universal glasses.

Sounds promising. What are you basing that on? I am trying to decide how to take the reports from some folks at CEDIA that it was flickering. Perhaps just an issue with the demo or the early sample?
post #1600 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

I AM interested in black frame insertion, which should make film look more film-like. This is actually the thing that I am most interested in seeing.

Doesn't BFI cause visible flicker in every other display device where it's been tried? And some of these were running at 240Hz or higher (such as the high-end SXRDs). Anyone see it in action at Ifa or Cedia?
post #1601 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The glasses can`t make it D65. If they did, it would have no the extra brightness generated in the 3D mode. The colors will be wrong in 3D. You can fix the flesh tones to make the wrongness not so obvious. But if you calibrate it through the glasses to make d65, it will much dimmer.

Yeah Mark .... That's the limit ...
Anyway, I will try in my setup to do D65 either for 3D due to my big 120" diag 1.4 gain screen and overall, little room. In my condtions, hopefully will be enough to set lamp to High mode and at least full open the both Irises

At now, in my setup with 990, still stay with Normal lamp all zoom to wide and iris -15 getting back 27 candles at D65 ( were 33 with lamp new in the beginning )
Really hope RS60 will be able to arrives in 3D at almost 23 candles at D65 all Irises opened High lamp mode in my setup due for me it's important the brightness BUT it' more important color accuracy

Anyway, surely, in the most part of setups, doing D65 for 3D contents will means a too dimmed image ....
post #1602 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

...My philosophy is that if I can upgrade my entire AV chain (Player, Receiver, Projector) for around $2000-$3000 every 3 years, that's not a bad deal. Some people spend that on a weekend in Cabo or a ski trip. I spend that every 2-3 years on my toys and I couldn't be happier.

P.S: Talk to Jason (AVS) they're having killer deals on both the RS40 and the AVR4311

It used to spend around $2k to upgrade my TV every year . And I'm with you I enjoy the my money in my A/V more than just about anything else. I just wish the cash flow was where it used to be and if so I'd be following in your footsteps.
post #1603 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Hi Gary - can you give us some feedback on the polarisation? Are the three colors all polarised at the same angle like the 550 and 950?

I've got orders in for two of these puppies if the polarisation checks out.

I tried looking at the X7 yesterday through polarised glasses (the ones from our Pro 3D TV). There was no colour shift, even when rotating the glasses, which would suggest to me that all colours are the same polarisation.
post #1604 of 8828
Gary,

I know that the RS40, 50 & 60 have FI to have help with smoothness during scenes in with there is motion. It appears that the HD250 doesn't have any such thing to help with motion. Would be a correct in stating that? I keep reading that smoothness in motion was a problem with prior JVCs so that would be a bit of a concern for me as I haven't personally seen one in person.
post #1605 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

Gary,

I know that the RS40, 50 & 60 have FI to have help with smoothness during scenes in with there is motion. It appears that the HD250 doesn't have any such thing to help with motion. Would be a correct in stating that? I keep reading that smoothness in motion was a problem with prior JVCs so that would be a bit of a concern for me as I haven't personally seen one in person.

The 250 doesn't have FI. It is identical to the older HD350/RS10 and motion smoothness was never really an issue when that was a current model, so it shouldn't be an problem, but the best way is to try and see a 250 or an RS10 for yourself before you buy.
post #1606 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

Doesn't BFI cause visible flicker in every other display device where it's been tried?

Yup. Just like in the movies! This is kind of the point - to make content look more like film.
post #1607 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

Gary,

I know that the RS40, 50 & 60 have FI to have help with smoothness during scenes in with there is motion. It appears that the HD250 doesn't have any such thing to help with motion. Would be a correct in stating that? I keep reading that smoothness in motion was a problem with prior JVCs so that would be a bit of a concern for me as I haven't personally seen one in person.

The older generation JVCs have two maybe-related motion artifacts (search for "zebra stripes" and "motion induced contouring"). It seems like the new panel drivers fix at least one of them. In practice, I rarely see them but it would be nice if they are now fixed.

Putting aside those known artifacts, there has been a big and heated debate about whether the JVCs are generally worse with motion than other projectors. One side thinks that the things that people see are really due to the low frame rates in film or other content and because of compression in sources like cable and especially satellite TV. The other side thinks that motion is just better on other projecters although I am unaware if anyone has advanced a real theory about why this is.

Personally, I don't think that the old JVCs are bad with motion. Do they reveal problems in our sources? Yes. They do.

If you are the kind of person who is (or might) be bothered with motion issues, buy a projector with frame interpolation. I see all of the motion issues constantly but I still would prefer to watch without FI because I just don't like the look of it. It is scary real and creeps me out. YMMV.
post #1608 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

The 250 doesn't have FI. It is identical to the older HD350/RS10 and motion smoothness was never really an issue when that was a current model, so it shouldn't be an problem, but the best way is to try and see a 250 or an RS10 for yourself before you buy.

Good enough.
post #1609 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

If you are the kind of person who is (or might) be bothered with motion issues, buy a projector with frame interpolation. I see all of the motion issues constantly but I still would prefer to watch without FI because I just don't like the look of it. It is scary real and creeps me out. YMMV.

If I had a projector with FI I would turn it off while watching movies. Gaming on the 360 is what I'm thinking about when it comes to this issue but even with that I'm thinking that it shouldn't be a problem. Sports like basketball and American football maybe an issue, but again I don't know. Is it a issue Lawguy?

I'm coming from a one-chip DLP and some people seem to have various issues there but I didn't.
post #1610 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahard View Post

If I had a projector with FI I would turn it off while watching movies. Gaming on the 360 is what I'm thinking about when it comes to this issue but even with that I'm thinking that it shouldn't be a problem. Sports like basketball and American football maybe an issue, but again I don't know. Is it a issue Lawguy?

I'm coming from a one-chip DLP and some people seem to have various issues there but I didn't.

It is an issue for some people but it is not for me. I don't know if it will be an issue for you. It is not an issue for most people. But, the people that are bothered seem to REALLY be bothered. Again, I prefer watching with the judder than using frame interpolation. Lots of people prefer frame interpolation. If I were you I would go to Best Buy and watch something with and without FI. Sit close and really focus on motion. Decide what you like.

I play maybe one or two Xbox games a year and I don't think it should really ever be an issue. Your concentration should be focused on the game and not on how things look with motion.
post #1611 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by damnsam77 View Post

The good news here is that we may possibly be getting the best and fastest available active shutter glasses to work with our new JVC 3D projectors, whether we get the JVC or X103 universal glasses.

Just curious why you thing the Xpand X103's are the best? Everything that I have read indicates the RealD CrystalEyes glasses are THE best. It would be fine by me if the $80 Xpands are considered great.
post #1612 of 8828
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

I tried looking at the X7 yesterday through polarised glasses (the ones from our Pro 3D TV). There was no colour shift, even when rotating the glasses, which would suggest to me that all colours are the same polarisation.

Thanks Gary! Great news.. I'm in for two of these, which I'll be building a "RealD" style 2 projector 3D system with. So it was important to know that it would work with the "High Transmissivity" versions of the circular polarising filters.

Now... can you test Clear Motion drive on "High" with 24p Bluray and tell me if it is doing frame insertion properly?

Note.. not talking Black Frame Insertion here, just want to know that it can do FI properly on this?
post #1613 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post


Now... can you test Clear Motion drive on "High" with 24p Bluray and tell me if it is doing frame insertion properly?

Note.. not talking Black Frame Insertion here, just want to know that it can do FI properly on this?

I think there are many of us that would like to know this answer....
post #1614 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Thanks Gary! Great news.. I'm in for two of these, which I'll be building a "RealD" style 2 projector 3D system with. So it was important to know that it would work with the "High Transmissivity" versions of the circular polarising filters.

Now... can you test Clear Motion drive on "High" with 24p Bluray and tell me if it is doing frame insertion properly?

Note.. not talking Black Frame Insertion here, just want to know that it can do FI properly on this?

Unfortunately I'm not at work today and our sample won't be in the showroom next week, so I won't get my hands on it for at least a week.
post #1615 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

Unfortunately I'm not at work today and our sample won't be in the showroom next week, so I won't get my hands on it for at least a week.

With such a great job, how could you ever miss work?? lol
post #1616 of 8828
Hearts fall. The sound of silence. Stunned.

Then the murmor begins.

WTF. How can he do this to us. That tease.

A tiny voice far away. Yea. But he has a life.

A shout. What about my life.
post #1617 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryB_UK View Post

Unfortunately I'm not at work today and our sample won't be in the showroom next week, so I won't get my hands on it for at least a week.

I'm most interested in your impressions of ghosting in 3D mode. I noticed you said you thought the 3D effect in "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" was good. My 3D Blu-ray of that movie has probably the least amount of ghosting of all the 3D discs I own (just 5 - they're kinda hard to come by these days ). How was your viewing of Cloudy in terms of ghosting? Based on my experience on a 3D plasma, I wouldn't expect that you saw a lot of it.
post #1618 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy View Post

The older generation JVCs have two maybe-related motion artifacts (search for "zebra stripes" and "motion induced contouring"). It seems like the new panel drivers fix at least one of them. In practice, I rarely see them but it would be nice if they are now fixed.

Putting aside those known artifacts, there has been a big and heated debate about whether the JVCs are generally worse with motion than other projectors. One side thinks that the things that people see are really due to the low frame rates in film or other content and because of compression in sources like cable and especially satellite TV.

I had Pearl/VW50 prior to RS35. Before getting my hands on RS35 I thought "oh, motion artifacts, how bad it could be: I hate sports, I watch mostly 24fps material from Blurays and DVDs"... Well some scenes are making me literally sick, so I need to turn on FI which just produces different artifacts. I never noticed something like that with my Sony. I mostly see this problem in the scenes with a city landscape panning, like the one in the beginning of the Dark Knight.
Don't get me wrong I like my RS35, but IMO motion handling is its weakest point. So my major concern "how is RS60 in this regard?"
post #1619 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

I had Pearl/VW50 prior to RS35. Before getting my hands on RS35 I thought "oh, motion artifacts, how bad it could be: I hate sports, I watch mostly 24fps material from Blurays and DVDs"... Well some scenes are making me literally sick, so I need to turn on FI which just produces different artifacts. I never noticed something like that with my Sony. I mostly see this problem in the scenes with a city landscape panning, like the one in the beginning of the Dark Knight.
Don't get me wrong I like my RS35, but IMO motion handling is its weakest point. So my major concern "how is RS60 in this regard?"

I also believe motion panning isn't the greatest on my RS1 but tolerable. My projector I owned prior to my RS1 was a dark chip 2+ dlp and that was terrible with panning. I'm hoping to see a big improvement going to the rs40
post #1620 of 8828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post

I had Pearl/VW50 prior to RS35. Before getting my hands on RS35 I thought "oh, motion artifacts, how bad it could be: I hate sports, I watch mostly 24fps material from Blurays and DVDs"... Well some scenes are making me literally sick, so I need to turn on FI which just produces different artifacts. I never noticed something like that with my Sony. I mostly see this problem in the scenes with a city landscape panning, like the one in the beginning of the Dark Knight.
Don't get me wrong I like my RS35, but IMO motion handling is its weakest point. So my major concern "how is RS60 in this regard?"

I'm getting a little worried about this motion problem I've seen a few references to. Cityscapes and landscapes are very revealing (in Blu-ray, not broadcast, which is already compromised by low bandwidth compression). If vertical and horizontal building lines (or distinctions in tree leaves and branches) blur during pans in Blu-ray discs, that's a very serious compromise in picture quality. I'm not talking about swish pans - just normal speed ones.

If the JVC has a good 24p mode, I can live with that. I don't care for the look of frame interpolation. I tried it with my Panasonic 4000, and the lowest setting was pretty good with Blu-ray, but the results were inconsistent with broadcast. The high setting was unwatchable, IMO, so I just decided to leave it off. My question is, what EXACTLY happens during motion that bothers you? Do things go soft, and what does "motion contouring" mean exactly?
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