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The prepress system - Page 16

post #451 of 545
2/3/13 at 9:56am
Charles,

I feel you. I'm starting to think about auditioning a Pass xp-10 and xp-20 to see how they compare against my Odyssey, although financially I'm not even close...

I'm running a pair of tubes in the Odyssey, I've had it for at least 4 years and bought it used. I use it quite a bit, for movies too because of the bypass feature in the preamp. I have never had to change the tubes.

Last night I finished installing my friend's system: BW 800 diamonds, 601 mac monos and C48 preamp. That damn preamp gave me so much trouble with the bypass feature it drove me crazy. Turned out the only way to get it to work is to run a 1/8" trigger cable from the receiver to the bypass input on the C48.. WTF??? What's wrong with just assigning the input and switching to it? Someone really hurried up to get that model released on schedule. Oh, and no BNC input? We're talking audiophile gear here... Without the trigger cable sound still passes through, but you have to adjust both the preamp and the receiver volumes which is a royal PITFA...

Sound wise: I didn't have time to fine tune it, system sounds powerful and incredibly detailed but way too bright. May be the diamond tweets, maybe the room.

I'm also keeping a close eye on your journey to get a new preamp. It'll be interesting to see what you decide. Getting a couple of units in your room to demo would be ideal, it's probably the most accurate way to compare.

Good luck!
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post #452 of 545
2/3/13 at 10:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddgtr View Post

Charles,

I feel you. I'm starting to think about auditioning a Pass xp-10 and xp-20 to see how they compare against my Odyssey, although financially I'm not even close...

I'm running a pair of tubes in the Odyssey, I've had it for at least 4 years and bought it used. I use it quite a bit, for movies too because of the bypass feature in the preamp. I have never had to change the tubes.

Last night I finished installing my friend's system: BW 800 diamonds, 601 mac monos and C48 preamp. That damn preamp gave me so much trouble with the bypass feature it drove me crazy. Turned out the only way to get it to work is to run a 1/8" trigger cable from the receiver to the bypass input on the C48.. WTF??? What's wrong with just assigning the input and switching to it? Someone really hurried up to get that model released on schedule. Oh, and no BNC input? We're talking audiophile gear here... Without the trigger cable sound still passes through, but you have to adjust both the preamp and the receiver volumes which is a royal PITFA...

Sound wise: I didn't have time to fine tune it, system sounds powerful and incredibly detailed but way too bright. May be the diamond tweets, maybe the room.

I'm also keeping a close eye on your journey to get a new preamp. It'll be interesting to see what you decide. Getting a couple of units in your room to demo would be ideal, it's probably the most accurate way to compare.

Good luck!

Well, the 601s are pretty neutral, so that may combine with those diamond tweeters to make an issue. On another forum someone described "warm" sound with the C48 in their system; so it may indeed be the combination of equipment. But if everything is new, nothing's broken in and the sound may smooth out after a while. And I've scanned some reviews of the XP-20; it's better than the XP-10, according to those. In fact, I might consider it if it had more RCA inputs.

I'll see what I do with this preamp thing. The equipment rack needs to be solved also; I have to get that going somehow.
Edited by prepress - 2/9/13 at 4:09am
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post #453 of 545
2/10/13 at 2:58am
Thread Starter 
I have a tentative date of 2/16 for my first audition, the C2300 and C50 in the same system. I have my usual track suspects for it:

• The Strife is O'er, Anthony Newman and the Chestnut Brass Co. (organ/brass); this has become my reference track for evaluating interconnects between preamp and power amp. The bass organ notes are telling.
• Fanfare for the Common Man, (Copeland), Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (brass/percussion); the exploding kettle drums on this version is a good dynamic test.
• Hallucinations, Eliane Elias (small jazz combo); she plays a mean piano and the acoustic bass moves along pretty well.

I need to come up with at least one other track, something with vocals; perhaps something by the Fairfield Four (a cappella gospel).
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post #454 of 545
2/15/13 at 2:08am
Thread Starter 
^ ^ ^
I made the appointment; it's indeed for tomorrow the 16th. And, add the Audio Research LS27 to the list. They'll all be in the same room, driving a pair of McIntosh MC601 monoblocks. i thought three preamps was a bit much and would have scheduled a second session, but the salesman thinks we can do it. Well, it would save me a trip, so we'll see.
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post #455 of 545
2/15/13 at 2:23am
Better to do all 3 at one time. You should have enough time, especially if you're familiar with your recordings. What speakers are they going to use? So they didn't want to let you bring them home for an audition? That would have been perfect.
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post #456 of 545
2/15/13 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddgtr View Post

Better to do all 3 at one time. You should have enough time, especially if you're familiar with your recordings. What speakers are they going to use? So they didn't want to let you bring them home for an audition? That would have been perfect.

I didn't think to ask; oh well.

What I'm thinking is to put the two tube units against each other and then compare the winner to the McIntosh C50. Then, it's classic tube vs. transistor. If there's no clear, strong preference, I likely get a C48 or move on to other choices. The difference between the C50 and C48 lies in features; they sound the same.
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post #457 of 545
2/15/13 at 12:58pm
This makes sense.

I've been playing around with my buddy's C48 and I must say that I like the way it sounds. I will eventually take it home for a few days to listen to it in my system just because I'm curious as to how it compares against mine.
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post #458 of 545
2/16/13 at 5:08pm
Thread Starter 
I had the big audition today, and am feeling a bit unsure about it right now, even though it ended with a purchase. As it turned out, I listened to only the tube units, the C2300 and ARC LS27. I used various familiar tracks:

Wondrous Stories, Yes (prog);
My God Called Me This Morning, Fairfield Four (a cappella gospel);
Hallucinations, Eliane Elias (jazz piano trio);
The Golden Striker, Modern Jazz Quartet (I’ve read where some don’t consider MJQ jazz);
Fanfare for the Common Man, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (brass/percussion);
Dust in the Wind, Kansas (prog);
Frankenstein, Edgar Winter (rock);
The Strife is O’er, Anthony Newman & The Chestnut Brass Company (organ/brass/percussion).

The system was a Puccini dCS U-Clock and CD player, McIntosh 601s, Magnepan MG 20.7 speakers, Nordost cabling and power cords, MIT power cord on the preamp, and a Richard Gray power conditioner. The system was, frankly, bright and a bit of a challenge to listen to; I am sensitive to such things and was a bit ill as a result. Fortunately, my system at home doesn’t do that to me.

I listened to the 2300 first, then the LS27. For the most part, I preferred the LS27 but bought the 2300 demo unit for two reasons: it was more dynamic, probably due to its larger power supply, and I got a nice deal on it. I thought at the time these things offset the LS27’s advantages. The LS27 tamed the system brightness some and was easier to listen to; it has only two tubes; it’s a line stage; it fits into my rack as is; it looks (to me) more elegant and is less obtrusive. But its downfall was dynamism, as it didn’t have the punch the 2300 did on tracks like Fanfare with its kettle drums. When they were whacked, you felt it more. And Jack DeJohnette’s drum solo during Hallucinations had more punch. Chris Squire’s bass in Wondrous Stories had more weight as well. I was able to pick it out in spots and follow it pretty well with both preamps, but it had more authority and was easier to follow on the 2300.

Despite all this, I’m feeling a bit unsure because, I think, ultimately I’m not getting what I want. I did indeed prefer the LS27’s overall sound in the demo system, but its comparatively light balance was its undoing. Otherwise, I’d have spent the money. Also, I’ve said before I liked the C2500’s look more than the 2300’s. But the deep discount that goes with a demo unit (and the last C2300 in the store, by the way) was hard to ignore. Still, part of me wants to cancel and get the 2500 instead, as it’s said to measure better than the 2300 and has preferable (to me) cosmetics. I have some time to do that if I want. But do I want to spend the additional $1135, which would just about pay for a new equipment rack if I choose/need to get one? I’ll see how I feel over the next day or two.

On tubes, the salseman has a C2300 himself, and has Gold Lions in there. He says they’re excellent, but perhaps a bit to the warm side, with Mullards and Tung-Sols being more neutral. I don’t believe I need more warmth in my system, so I’ll try the other, less expensive options first. I suppose the Magnepans were responsible for this brightness; the 601s are fairly neutral, too. And the 2300 (or maybe 2500 still) means a system reconfiguration, which I’ll need to come up with since having it creates an imbalance in the racks and kills setup symmetry, since the onboard phono stage is better than my Aragon 47k; no need to keep it in the rack.

Of course, things grind on.
Edited by prepress - 3/2/13 at 2:19am
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post #459 of 545
2/17/13 at 5:52am
The Magges are anything but bright, so it had to be the room or setup (or something else).

I have no clue about your financial status but given what you already own, I assume you will not be living under a bridge anytime soon. Making decisions on price only (the deep discount you got) has been, for me, almost always regrettable and in no time at all, I'm looking for a "do over", and thinking "if only".

On the other hand, if you switch out gear a lot, then keep what you bought and make the change the next time you get the itch.

One more thing: I have YET to buy a piece of gear that sounded at home like it did in the store. It's all about the room. If you have a return option, stick it in your system, live with for a bit and it you can't stand the decision you made, return it.

Loved your selection of music for hardware evaluation.
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post #460 of 545
2/17/13 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I had the big audition today, and am feeling a bit unsure about it right now, even though it ended with a purchase. As it turned out, I listened to only the tube units, the C2300 and ARC LS27. I used various familiar tracks:

Wondrous Stories, Yes (prog);
My God Called Me This Morning, Fairfield Four (a cappella gospel);
Hallucinations, Eliane Elias (jazz piano trio);
The Golden Striker, Modern Jazz Quartet (I’ve read where some don’t consider MJQ jazz);
Fanfare for the Common Man, Atlanta Symphony Orchestra (brass/percussion);
Dust in the Wind, Kansas (prog);
Frankenstein, Edgar Winter (rock);
The Strife is O’er, Anthony Newman & The Chestnut Brass Company (organ/brass/percussion).

The system was a Puccini dCS U-Clock and CD player, McIntosh 601s, Magnepan MG 20.7 speakers, Nordost cabling and power cords, MIT power cord on the preamp, and a Richard Gray power conditioner. The system was, frankly, bright and a bit of a challenge to listen to; I am sensitive to such things and was a bit ill as a result. Fortunately, my system at home doesn’t do that to me.

I listened to the 2300 first, then the LS27. For the most part, I preferred the LS27 but bought the 2300 demo unit for two reasons: it was more dynamic, probably due to its larger power supply, and I got a nice deal on it. I thought at the time these things offset the LS27’s advantages. The LS27 tamed the system brightness some and was easier to listen to; it has only two tubes; it’s a line stage; it fits into my rack as is; it looks (to me) more elegant ans is less obtrusive. But its downfall was dynamism, as it didn’t have the punch the 2300 did on tracks like Fanfare with its kettle drums. When they were whacked, you felt it more. And Jack DeJohnette’s drum solo during Hallucinations had more punch. Chris Squire’s bass in Wondrous Stories had more weight as well. I was able to pick it out in spots and follow it pretty well with both preamps, but it had more authority and was easier to follow on the 2300.

Despite all this, I’m feeling a bit unsure because, I think, ultimately I’m not getting what I want. I did indeed prefer the LS27’s overall sound in the demo system, but its comparatively light balance was its undoing. Otherwise, I’d have spent the money. Also, I’ve said before I liked the C2500’s look more than the 2300’s. But the deep discount that goes with a demo unit (and the last C2300 in the store, by the way) was hard to ignore. Still, part of me wants to cancel and get the 2500 instead, as it’s said to measure better than the 2300 and has preferable (to me) cosmetics. I have some time to do that if I want. But do I want to spend the additional $1135, which would just about pay for a new equipment rack if I choose/need to get one? I’ll see how I feel over the next day or two.

On tubes, the salseman has a C2300 himself, and has Gold Lions in there. He says they’re excellent, but perhaps a bit to the warm side, with Mullards and Tung-Sols being more neutral. I don’t believe I need more warmth in my system, so I’ll try the other, less expensive options first. I suppose the Magnepans were responsible for this brightness; the 601s are fairly neutral, too. And the 2300 (or maybe 2500 still) means a system reconfiguration, which I’ll need to come up with since having it creates an imbalance in the racks and kills setup symmetry, since the onboard phono stage is better than my Aragon 47k; no need to keep it in the rack.

Of course, things grind on.

I hope they take trade-ups.. I am going to place my order for the C2500 as soon as my dealer gets the go-ahead and McIntosh starts shipping.
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post #461 of 545
2/17/13 at 8:27am
I enjoyed reading about your experience and appreciate you including your evaluation tracks. I learned about the Fairfield Four from my father a few months ago. He's not an audiophile--just a fan of great gospel acapella (way back to the days of The Heritage Singers' few acapella outings.). I played the FF4 in the system when he was visiting for Thanksgiving, and he was in bliss! Frankly, so was I. I'm going to look for your other eval tracks on my Sonos.

About this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Despite all this, I’m feeling a bit unsure because, I think, ultimately I’m not getting what I want...

Man, that one sentence says all you need to know about the retention v. returning battle. You will always wonder "what if?" for as long as you own it. You're better off getting the upgrade--maybe even doing an after-market Transformer mod. As Audioguy said, things always sound different at home....and even in different rooms. I spend much of this winter auditioning speakers, and had many opportunities to hear the same models in different environments and the differences were night and day. It might be a really good idea to consider getting the model you want--plus, for an additional 1.1k, it seems worth it in the long run, as opposed to making an all new purchase a year or two from now. Either way, congrats on a great step up and as an addition, you free up rack space-which is at a premium for us all these days!
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post #462 of 545
2/17/13 at 8:54am
Hey Charles, congrats on the purchase. I too enjoyed reading about your experience as all the "professional" reviews sound the same...

Just plug it into your system at home and see how you like it there. There's NOBODY that knows your system better than you do. If there are any shortcomings or advantages, you'll catch it right away.
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post #463 of 545
2/17/13 at 10:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

The Magges are anything but bright, so it had to be the room or setup (or something else).

I have no clue about your financial status but given what you already own, I assume you will not be living under a bridge anytime soon. Making decisions on price only (the deep discount you got) has been, for me, almost always regrettable and in no time at all, I'm looking for a "do over", and thinking "if only".

On the other hand, if you switch out gear a lot, then keep what you bought and make the change the next time you get the itch.

One more thing: I have YET to buy a piece of gear that sounded at home like it did in the store. It's all about the room. If you have a return option, stick it in your system, live with for a bit and it you can't stand the decision you made, return it.

Loved your selection of music for hardware evaluation.

Thanks, audioguy. Since everything in the room was unfamiliar, I thought the speakers were the issue, that plus neutral-sounding amps in the 601s. I heard the 2300/601 combo at another store back in November and that, too, was bright; those speakers were Adam Audio, whose history is in the pro market. Over the holidays down in Nashville I heard a C2300 feeding the all-tube McIntosh MC275 and driving a pair of Revel speakers. That combo was definitely NOT bright. It should be remembered too I guess, that the 2300 was running with the stock tubes, and a different type than the LS27.

And it's not that I didn't like the 2300; I did: "Yes — detail more evident; Fairfield Four - lead vocal particularly real; Eliane — JD's drum whacks have authority, there's even one or two I don't recall hearing before" (from my notes). I think the 2300 will sound good in here, though not quite like at the store. I don't change gear much, though since July 2008—when I bought my plasma TV—I've bought 2 BD players, a tuner, SACD player, video processor, two power conditioners, interconnects and a turntable control unit; only the latter a necessity, as its predecessor died and was too old to repair. The interconnects were due to a poor choice in TV stands. Before that, since 1994 I'd bought only 3 pieces, one a replacement due to a failed component.

As for the C2300/C2500 issue, I'm reminding myself I'd have to shell out another $1135 to get a 2500. The LS27 would be another $2400, and I'm not going there, elegant looks notwithstanding. So the question is do I want the 2500's better measurements, which may or may not translate into better sound, and its cleaner (to me) cosmetics? I feel better about the 2300 now than I did when I posted the results, but I'll give it another day.
Edited by prepress - 2/18/13 at 3:16am
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post #464 of 545
2/17/13 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oOOBillO0o View Post

I hope they take trade-ups.. I am going to place my order for the C2500 as soon as my dealer gets the go-ahead and McIntosh starts shipping.

I might risk contacting McIntosh to see if they believe the improved measurements will make a difference. I would have spent $500 more for the looks, but over $1100 is another story.

The dealer I went to said he could take my order for the 2500 now, if I want to go there. It isn't supposed to be out for another month and a half though.
Edited by prepress - 2/18/13 at 3:12am
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post #465 of 545
2/17/13 at 11:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrolicBeast View Post

I enjoyed reading about your experience and appreciate you including your evaluation tracks. I learned about the Fairfield Four from my father a few months ago. He's not an audiophile--just a fan of great gospel acapella (way back to the days of The Heritage Singers' few acapella outings.). I played the FF4 in the system when he was visiting for Thanksgiving, and he was in bliss! Frankly, so was I. I'm going to look for your other eval tracks on my Sonos.

About this quote:
Man, that one sentence says all you need to know about the retention v. returning battle. You will always wonder "what if?" for as long as you own it. You're better off getting the upgrade--maybe even doing an after-market Transformer mod. As Audioguy said, things always sound different at home....and even in different rooms. I spend much of this winter auditioning speakers, and had many opportunities to hear the same models in different environments and the differences were night and day. It might be a really good idea to consider getting the model you want--plus, for an additional 1.1k, it seems worth it in the long run, as opposed to making an all new purchase a year or two from now. Either way, congrats on a great step up and as an addition, you free up rack space-which is at a premium for us all these days!

It looks nicer in person than in most photos I've seen, though this one's flattering:



The main visual diference is the 2300 has four knobs on the front, whereas the 2500 has two, and the tubes for the 2500 are toward the front:



Those smaller two knobs were done away with on the 2500 and their function (trim adjustments) moved to the buttons below. Of course, it has the built-in DAC, controversial among purists. There is also the other side, which is I go after the 2500 and cough up the extra money, incurring the danger of reverse regret: I move to the 2500 and then lament spending more money when things are tight already and the 2300 is a classic, a very good preamp as is. And like most Mac gear, it's decidedly overbuilt at 29.5 pounds (the 2500 is one pound more). My checking account is a bit low now, and that's an inhibitor also. I will wait another day or so and see how I feel. As for sound, experience says it won't be the same as in the store, but the essential character will hold up.

The Fairfield Four came to my attention way back in the '90s when they were on CBS This Morning. The title of the album that song I used yesterday came from is Standing in the Safety Zone. And I figured if the vibraphone in the MJQ track didn't sound like milk bottles, things were good. it didn't.
Edited by prepress - 2/23/13 at 11:26am
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post #466 of 545
2/17/13 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddgtr View Post

Hey Charles, congrats on the purchase. I too enjoyed reading about your experience as all the "professional" reviews sound the same...

Just plug it into your system at home and see how you like it there. There's NOBODY that knows your system better than you do. If there are any shortcomings or advantages, you'll catch it right away.

And since it's the demo unit, no break-in issues. I need to haul it on getting this place ready and having my stand strategy together. The store is holding it, waiting for my call to ship via UPS. I may ask for FedEx instead, as they'll deliver on Saturday. But since I seem to have to work Saturdays sometimes, maybe that's not good...

Tubes. I NEVER thought I'd go there. smile.gif
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post #467 of 545
2/21/13 at 1:50pm
Thread Starter 
I see the 2500 is up on Mac's website. At the best opportunity I will do a comparison of specs to be sure I'm staying with the 2300. At a glance the 2500 has a better S/N ratio and consumes a bit less power (50W vs. 75W), but I have to see something significant in order to lay out the extra money at this point.
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post #468 of 545
2/25/13 at 2:10am
Thread Starter 
I downloaded the C2500 manual and did a side-by-side with the C2300 according to specs, and while I haven't gone through the entire manual it seems as if there's nothing compelling to make me spend the extra for the 2500. Many of the specs are identical; there are a few which favor the 2500 and one that favors the 2300. I am running the specs by someone who works in electronics for a living, and unless he has something to say, I plan to have the C2300 shipped to me soon. And as I've also said, looks alone aren't enough of a reason to change considering the price differential.
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post #469 of 545
2/25/13 at 3:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I downloaded the C2500 manual and did a side-by-side with the C2300 according to specs, and while I haven't gone through the entire manual it seems as if there's nothing compelling to make me spend the extra for the 2500. Many of the specs are identical; there are a few which favor the 2500 and one that favors the 2300. I am running the specs by someone who works in electronics for a living, and unless he has something to say, I plan to have the C2300 shipped to me soon. And as I've also said, looks alone aren't enough of a reason to change considering the price differential.

I heard from the A/V guy I passed the specs. He didn't appear to find anything compelling in them either. So I'll be sticking with the 2300. Now I have to catch up with the friend who says she wants my Hooker TV console so I can get that out of here. To make room for the C2300 in my system I need to change out the console for something more compatible. We move on.
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post #470 of 545
3/1/13 at 8:58am
Thread Starter 
I have ordered and received a set of 12" pillars to modify my Sanus Euro EFAV rack, to give the C2300 more room (and to see those green-glowing tube LEDs) should I choose. I'm also planning to get some Gold Lion tubes, but now I'm wondering whether to use them in the line stage only or in the MM phono section as well (2 each). I ordered 4; the second pair could be for back-up if I go outboard with the phono. The Parasound JC3 phono preamp is on my mind, and that's dangerous. I figure the onboard phono of the 2300 is as good or better than my Aragon 47k unit (the salesguy thinks it's better) so this may be something to try out once things are up and running. I've been doing thumbnail sketches of potential layouts with and without the outboard phono stage so as to be ready.

There is also a tentative date of 3/16 for the TV stand change to take place. I'm hoping then or the 23rd, worst case. My friend who wants the Hooker console has some guys and a van available, so that's good.

UPDATE: I called the store and asked them to ship the C2300 on Thursday, so I should get it Friday/Monday. Even though I'm not set up for it and it will be in the way, I decided not to wait. Perhaps I can force the issue this way. I also want to get the new tubes in it before I rack it.
Edited by prepress - 3/3/13 at 2:58am
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post #471 of 545
3/3/13 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I heard from the A/V guy I passed the specs. He didn't appear to find anything compelling in them either. So I'll be sticking with the 2300. Now I have to catch up with the friend who says she wants my Hooker TV console so I can get that out of here. To make room for the C2300 in my system I need to change out the console for something more compatible. We move on.

Ive googled the C2300 and it looks amazing Charles. Im looking forward in reading your reviews once its installed in your system.
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post #472 of 545
3/3/13 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

I have ordered and received a set of 12" pillars to modify my Sanus Euro EFAV rack, to give the C2300 more room (and to see those green-glowing tube LEDs) should I choose. I'm also planning to get some Gold Lion tubes, but now I'm wondering whether to use them in the line stage only or in the MM phono section as well (2 each). I ordered 4; the second pair could be for back-up if I go outboard with the phono. The Parasound JC3 phono preamp is on my mind, and that's dangerous. I figure the onboard phono of the 2300 is as good or better than my Aragon 47k unit (the salesguy thinks it's better) so this may be something to try out once things are up and running. I've been doing thumbnail sketches of potential layouts with and without the outboard phono stage so as to be ready.

There is also a tentative date of 3/16 for the TV stand change to take place. I'm hoping then or the 23rd, worst case. My friend who wants the Hooker console has some guys and a van available, so that's good.

UPDATE: I called the store and asked them to ship the C2300 on Thursday, so I should get it Friday/Monday. Even though I'm not set up for it and it will be in the way, I decided not to wait. Perhaps I can force the issue this way. I also want to get the new tubes in it before I rack it.

Thats awesome Charles like you I would also like to see those green-glowing tube Leds. You must be excited I know I would be smile.gif
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post #473 of 545
3/3/13 at 11:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Thats awesome Charles like you I would also like to see those green-glowing tube Leds. You must be excited I know I would be smile.gif

Getting there...smile.gif

The C2300's faceplate has a lip on it that's taller than the C2300's body, so I'd have actually about .75" clearance under the shelf above. I've been assured that there should be no heat issues by someone who has that same setup (and his Salamander is closed on the sides to boot). So I could use the Euro rack as is (8" shelves standard), but that's a different configuration from using the 12" pillars, which would make the rack only 1" taller because I'd use 5" pillars on the shelf below. Of course, the Euro isn't as wide as the TV and there is some concern about that being awkward-looking. but I've been inspired by ddgtr's setup and will try the Euro for a while. Besides, I have Euro racks to either side so they'll all match. I can always go for the Salamander later. Meantime I'll see how I can configure things to get the outside racks as short as possible. I hope that the height of the Euro doesn't elevate the TV too high; the Euro as is runs 31" high, same as the Salamander; changing pillars adds only one inch.

One other thought is that with the Salamander that would put my speakers a bit too close to one another, as the Salamander is 66" wide and the manual for my speakers recommends 6–8' apart. The outside racks would then go outside the speakers; otherwise I think the speakers would be too far apart. The system will take up more real estate than it already does if I go for the Salamander anyway, because I'd have to spread things out to accommodate it so it's best I try what I have first. I hope to find/make time to do some to-scale layouts rather than thumbnails on paper scraps!
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post #474 of 545
3/9/13 at 4:19am
Thread Starter 
Well, the Thursday delivery didn't happen. I postponed it. The reason is that I'm depending upon the friend who wants my Hooker cabinet. Today (Saturday) was out because she has a prior commitment. Next Saturday (the 16th) would be tight in terms of her preparation, but she will try. The following Saturday may not be good for me in that it's the day before I teach Sunday school and may need the time for lesson preparation. I'm beginning to think I will give her a drop-dead date of the 30th and move on if the cabinet is still here.

Meantime, I've begun tube research, another consuming operation, to me anyway. Some confusing (to me) info is out there, but I do read consistently good things about Genalex Gold Lions. Many C2300 owners use them and rave about them. Depending on where you get them they can run around $40–45 each; the store I bought my 2300 from has them for $75 each (those may be NOS tubes, I don't know). Tube rolling is not on my agenda, so I want to have a reserve of two or at most three brands on hand and be done. Preferably one brand, but the Gold Lions cost a bit more than others so I don't know if it's them. Mullards, another popular brand, sell for less than $20 each. These prices are for reissues, not originals.

I plug onward.
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post #475 of 545
3/9/13 at 5:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Well, the Thursday delivery didn't happen. I postponed it. The reason is that I'm depending upon the friend who wants my Hooker cabinet. Today (Saturday) was out because she has a prior commitment. Next Saturday (the 16th) would be tight in terms of her preparation, but she will try. The following Saturday may not be good for me in that it's the day before I teach Sunday school and may need the time for lesson preparation. I'm beginning to think I will give her a drop-dead date of the 30th and move on if the cabinet is still here.

Meantime, I've begun tube research, another consuming operation, to me anyway. Some confusing (to me) info is out there, but I do read consistently good things about Genalex Gold Lions. Many C2300 owners use them and rave about them. Depending on where you get them they can run around $40–45 each; the store I bought my 2300 from has them for $75 each (those may be NOS tubes, I don't know). Tube rolling is not on my agenda, so I want to have a reserve of two or at most three brands on hand and be done. Preferably one brand, but the Gold Lions cost a bit more than others so I don't know if it's them. Mullards, another popular brand, sell for less than $20 each. These prices are for reissues, not originals.

I plug onward.

They're holding the Macintosh for you Charles?
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post #476 of 545
3/9/13 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

They're holding the Macintosh for you Charles?

Yes, waiting for me to give the okay to ship. I have been trying unsuccessfully to coordinate everything. But since others are involved (and their schedules) it can be tricky. So I think I will move on come month's end if nothing resolves before that. I will call 1-800-GOT JUNK and have the Hooker hauled away (too bad, as it's a nice piece of furniture) or the Salvation Army to see if they'll take it and another, smaller stand I have here.

The C2300 would fit inside the Hooker, but it would not be a comfortable fit and a nightmare if cable adjustments or other maintenance issues required turning the unit around or otherwise maneuvering it within that shelf space.
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post #477 of 545
3/10/13 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
Three preliminary layouts (to scale) for the system with the C2300 in the mix. The 2300 is tight in the shelf, but it fits.

system 1.pdf 75k .pdf file

system 2.pdf 73k .pdf file

system 3.pdf 75k .pdf file
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post #478 of 545
3/10/13 at 3:52pm
Prepress:

If you like "gospel" music acapella, I have two recommendations.

The first is by a group called Take 6. Awesome CD, and many of the cuts on it are amazing.

Here is the album.

The next is by a group called Selah. The specific cut I recommend (to start) is "Were You There". If you are in a bad place and just need lifting up and being reminded of what HE has done for you, this is the music. If you are in a good place and want to remember what HE has done for you, you will be lifted up even higher. The sound stage is a broad as a football field.

If you don't like either or both, send them to me and I will pay for the cost of the CD's as well as shipping to me.:

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post #479 of 545
3/11/13 at 4:37am
Thread Starter 
Here's one more layout. this one's dangerous; you'll note I snuck in another piece, a Parasound JC3 phono preamp. The C2300 is said to have a good phono stage built in, but this crossed my mind. It balances out the system nicely, at least.

system 4.pdf 75k .pdf file
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post #480 of 545
3/11/13 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by prepress View Post

Three preliminary layouts (to scale) for the system with the C2300 in the mix. The 2300 is tight in the shelf, but it fits.

system 1.pdf 75k .pdf file

system 2.pdf 73k .pdf file

system 3.pdf 75k .pdf file

I like system 1 and System 2 Charles its got some breathing space for the C2300. Its already a tight fit on the 3 of them but even more on the third one. At least with the first 2 if you need to take the unit out your able to fit your arm through from the top and gently pull it out with effort ( due to weight ). The Third one if you need to pull that out will only be able to fit your hands on either side of the unit.
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