Best 3d Bluray Movie so far????3d effects - Page 12

A little off topic here, but I think the reason KZ3 has such bad crosstalk is because of it's low low 3D resolution.

"For its 3D mode Killzone 3 renders in 640x716 with MLAA, and the effects buffers (which were already rendering in quarter resolution) are again halved down to 320x360 creating an unsightly scene of jagged lines and upscaling artifacts. "

I've been playing SOCOM 4 which runs at 1280x720 in 3D and there is a night level with plenty of contrast that I did not get any crosstalk.

So to blame the displays/glasses alone for crosstalk is not entirely true, though I'm sure they do play a factor.

I think we need to differentiate between the different types of "ghosting". There is crosstalk, which is technically when one eye sees information intended for the other eye due to the passsing of the unintended signal through the glasses lens (whether active, polarized or anaglyph). Then there are convergence issues, where a double image is seen either due to the attempt to bring the 3d image too far beyond the image plane in either direction, or due to viewer sensitivity to stereo viewing, or due to equipment that has the stereo views offset by too great an amount.

Crosstalk (where the wrong stereo image makes its way through the lens) is almost *never* the fault of the encoding on the disc; it is due to the setup of the glasses, the emitter, the display, or a combination of the above. Convergence issues may be due to the encoding, but may be user specific, and can theoretically be corrected by adjusting the stereo offset.

You can easily test what is causing a double image by closing one eye while viewing: if you still see the double image through one lens it is crosstalk; otherwise it is a convergence issue.

Good up on that info!

"*never* the fault of the encoding on the disc"
of course this doesn't apply to video games, which spyguy was talking about.

KZ3 has plenty of crosstalk as described above.

How could one correct a convergence issue? I notice your description of convergence issues on some Directv 3d channels. Is this something there the specific user must play with the depth settings to fix it or is it just something that is out of our hands?

"Theoretically".
Some equipment (blu-ray players, game consoles) have a "depth" setting or similar, but remember they can't adjust convergence for *just* the foreground or *just* the background... since the material is already mastered, adjusting offset will simply shift L vs. R. You could end up correcting convergence issues at the extreme front of the image and creating new ones in the background.

It still seems unlikely that the L & R channels would "bleed" into each other on any video platform (aside from maybe something generated for anaglyph glasses), but someone with more experience in the rendering process on game platforms can chime in I'm sure.

The stereo content for one eye should never come into "contact" with that for the other until it reaches the display.

Again, I would reccommend the "one-eye" test, and maybe see if there is a depth/screen size setting on the console.

How is that unlikely? The encoding on the disc has to precisely match up the image for the left eye along with the data that is used to tell the tv to in turn tell the glasses to let the left eye only see that particular image.

How people on here think that process is infallible is beyond me.

Besides, another issue is that all the crosstalk I've seen so far has been on just a few objects on the screen, not all, or sometimes, even MOST of them. If this were solely a set and glasses problem, wouldn't you be seeing crosstalk on ALL the off-set images??

What we were discussing is whether crosstalk results from the encoding on the disc, or somewhere along the line after that. I am saying that it is virtually impossible for crosstalk to be encoded on a blu-ray disc, unless that disc is a single-stream anaglyph recording. Here's why:

The film is shot (or rendered) with two camera views, left & right. Those images are transfered & stored separately on the disc as left & right streams (actually, in practice, there is one complete eye-view file, and another "difference" file for information that has changed for the other view, to save space, but that's a technicality).

In the case of active glasses, the two views alternate their display temporally, and the active glasses alternate which view they allow through the lens. In the case of passive (polarized) glasses, the direction of the polarization determines which eye gets which view. In both cases, it is at THIS stage that crosstalk can occur; either you have a timing lag or other temporal issue (active glasses) or inefficient polarization/screen gain implementation (passive), and THAT is what causes the doubling.

I can see NO WAY crosstalk doubling can be the fault of the disc itself, except in an egregious case of careless mastering, which allows left eye content to be encoded in the right eye stream or vice versa.

The ONLY ghosting that can result from the disc itself is due to convergence... if the content attempts to break beyond the screen plane excessively, or if the viewer is sensitive to extreme changes in depth cues. Again, you can detect these types of issues by closing one eye while viewing: if you still see double, it is crosstalk (but due to the display & glasses, not the disc); if the doubling goes away, it is in your BRAIN not in your EYES, and it is a convergence issue.

So we get discs with audio-sync issues, cropping that chops off people's heads, special feature pop-ups that get locked into being on all the time, disc's that simply don't work, discs with the wrong audio formats, et cetera, et cetera, ...but you think THIS is a nearly impossible phenomenon?

In those cases, usually the person encountering the error posts findings on these forums, and seeks confirmation. This is how the blocking artifacts on Criterion's "Thin Red Line" were recently determined to be a disc encoding glitch.

But when someone posts that a 3d disc has "ghosting" or "crosstalk", and 3 or 4 follow up posts appear from people who don't see the problem... in that case, I'd say yes, it is nearly impossible that it is a disc problem.

Image doubling issues on 3d content virtually disappeared for me once I switched to an emitter that could be adjusted for delay & duty cycle.

I received my free copy of AVATAR BLU RAY 3D today. I played the movie on my new Vizio theater 3d 32" TV and was wowed by the picture and depth. The movie was far more engrossing than the movie theater. This movie will be hard to beat.

I received the movie becaue I purchase the Panasonic 210 Blu Ray player.

hi HDPERSON, but really? is the offer still up, and where did you do this, i need info please!

Its on Panasonics website.

It "virtually" disappeared?

Wow, so I check ebay. Avatar 3D cheapest bid is 89. the buyouts are $125 and $129. Amazon has the Panasonic 110 3d player with the Avatar offer (it is on amazon's site too) for 126 bucks. Wow. Even if you don't want a 3DBR player, just buy that and sell the player on ebay. Most of the panny 110's on ebay are more than $126.
Silly stuff. Only 6 months left on the exclusive anyway.

Ok, "Practically" disappeared. Semantics.

I experience no crosstalk on my setup. I do see occasional doubling due to convergence, when objects are projected well beyond the screen plane, but I am more sensitive to that than others.

Which only emphasizes the point of my original post... being able to tell the difference between the two.

Avatar 3D BD won't be available in retail until the end of 2012.

Does anyone know of any scene in any movie that is comparable to the codfish scene in the IMAX Under the Sea movie? That totally blew me away, never seen anything like that.

Just sold my Avatar on ebay, still Factory sealed, for $80.00 shipped.

I assume you mean "won't be available until the end of 2012...." Not true. The exclusivity deal with Panny ends in February 2012.

Just bought two copies of avatar 3d on ebay, one for me one a gift for my sister. Average price 87 shipped, worth it to me. Not sure how I feel about megamind going for over 60. I might get it if I can get out a bit lower. I've gotta say these exclusives suck, seems to be all the best titles. I think I paid close to 60 for httyd.

Yeah, I meant won't. Just because the deal ends doesn't mean the movie will be on shelves immediately afterwards.

More than likely, Fox will want to have it out when Avatar 2 is in theaters.

Sammys adventure has some good pop out moments.

What is Sammy adventure a movie

its a cgi film about a turtle.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1230204/

To me, 3D is an interesting, but not a particularly engaging experience. Sitting through a two hour movie with the glasses on is fatiguing. And I am hard pressed to watch a title that I otherwise would not be intrested in, just becuase it is shot in 3D.

Other than the "Gee Whiz" reaction to objects that seem to float out and whack me in the face, I am unable to get lost in the experience and forget I am watching a movie. To the contrary, I am always remined that I am watching a movie, particularly when you get to the obligatory scenes that exist for no other reason that to show off the 3D effect.

I also feel like I am looking at a Viewmaster, except that the picture is a moving picture instead of a static one. Those stereoscopic pictures on a Viewmaster were interesting, but I never felt immersed in the experience. And I don't feel immersed with the 3D fare that I have seen so far.

Two words come to mind: Marketing Gimmick. But, then, I am an old f**t.

I think IMAX titles are the best - short, great 3D, and the cinematography is excellent.

I am heading toward old too mobilelawyer, and mostly you are right. The current fare is pretty weak. How to train your dragon though, is a really good movie I can watch over and over. It was the only expected 3D title I bought on 2D just because it was that good. I actually bought 2 copies on 2D so I could keep one at work to loan out. I have watched it several times in 3D since my friend got it in a stupid samsung bundle. I finally bought it on ebay so I could keep it around. I think in the future there will be a lot more quailty content. Some of the upcoming good conversions, like lion king and Titanic should be good. I was watching Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom the other day and thought what a great experience that would be in 3D.