2010 Mitsubishi 3D DLP Owners Thread (638 series) - Page 34

Hi Lucid,

Once again, thank you for the detailed information. I only have two devices connected, a Panasonic BDT-210 and a WD HD Live plus. The banding is clearly visible on all 1080p content and is most noticeable on the home screens of both devices. I have only been using 1080p content to test, I was concerned I was somehow inadvertently triggering the up-scaling but I no longer believe that is the case. I am eager to get home and try and see if I can address this by ensuring everything is set to 8 bit color.

I have decided it's time to call for a replacement unit. I have tried all the suggestions without any luck. Here is the best picture I could produce for illustrating the problem. The banding isn't strictly horizontal or vertical, it's there anytime a color gradient is present. You can see the banding expand and constrict as you adjust the various picture parameters.

Here is my WD HD Live Plus in netflix mode connected to HDMI-2 via high speed cable. The banding issues are consistent across all of my devices and inputs:



As far as a replacement is concerned, I was considering the 65738. However, since nearly all of my source inputs are 1080p, the 73638 can be obtained for the same price as the 65738. Might be worth it to get the extra screen space instead of the better upscaling and native 3D support.

I wouldn't bother with getting a replacement unit. That picture looks all too common of the problems with 8-bit color. It's easily visible on pure solid color gradients. But if you want to confirm, I would recommend taking a blu-ray disc that shows the issue to a store that has a demo unit on display to 100% verify.

Otherwise, I would recommend that you return the unit and look for something else that has a in-HDTV video processor which will do a better job at cleaning up 8-bit color. But expect to pony up some extra coin for that, especially at 65". And no matter how good the video processor is, it can only do so much with 8-bit color. Purest usually wouldn't want such additional processing since it can produce other artifacts. The real cure/fix you seek is 12-bit color content.

In before it closes

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/m...a-92-inch-dlp/

Im glad i got my 60"

For a good deal too

Recently I started getting too many "Invalid Format" and "No signal messages". Sometimes it takes 15 to 30 seconds to get a channel working.

My setup is 1 Comcast cable box, 1 Sony Blu-ray connected to a an HDMI switch connected to Mitsubishi 3D adapater and to the TV .

The recent change to my set up was replacing the Comcast Motorola settop box with Comcast cisco (Scientific Atlanta).

But even before the szet top box swap I used to get these errors. Now it looks like it's happening too often and for too long.

I have the 73C10 model.

I think the 3d adapter is causing all this problem. I'll try and bypass to see whether I have the same problem

This occurs when the video format changes - switching from one input to another manually or when the video format changes on the input. Sounds like you need go into the setup of your cable set-top box and make sure it's outputting 1080i/p. That way when you change channels you won't get that lag when the channels change from 720p to 1080i video formats.

If the above isn't the case then make sure you're using "High Speed" HDMI cables. If you are and the above is followed then what you mentioned about the 3D adapter could be the issue.

Thanks. I was able to set the output to 780p, 1080i, and 1080p on the set top box. I have to choose all 3 options, I couldn't select just 1080p alone. I deselected all the 480 output.

For 1080p the cable box has 24frames and 30 frames options. I left both the options. I don't get "invalid format" anymore. But I do get occasionally "No signal" briefly when switching channels.

You should be able to select one output format on your set top box. 1080i or 1080p (one not both) would be best. You might want to call your HDTV provider to see if they have a different set top box available or how you can default it to one video mode.

As for 24fps vs 30fps - just select 30fps. The video processor on the C10/638 isn't that great so it probably won't convert 24fps video to 30fps as good as your set top box can. Not to mention, the C10/638 doesn't output 24fps so there's no benefit in using that mode since the HDTV will up convert it to 30fps.

i keep my scientific atlanta(now cisco) box outputting at 1080i only. this ends the 'no signal' message when switching to channels with different resolutions.

I have done quit bit of reading and still cannot decide between WD-73638 and WD-73738.
I don't care for the adapter as my main source for 3D is an HTPC with PowerDVD10 that can output checkerboard. The same goes for internet application. My main concern is about PQ especially for SD and 720p 1080i contents from the cable box. the 2009 low end model 73C9 did a great job in processing those contents but I read that the 638 or C10 are not as good. So currently 638 is $1170 on amazon and 738 is $1350. My question is regardless of other differences how PQ in lower res contents compare between them? Can someone camper these two to C9 in SD and 720p contents? thanks

I have the Comcast set top box rng110, which forces me to select all 780p, 1080i and 1080p. I don't have a choice of selecting only 1080p output. Do you know of any specific Comcast set box which outputs only 1080p? I can ask them specifically for that model. Of course it needs to be 3d compatible.

Here's a link to available set top boxes from Comcast. I'm trying to see which one will give me 1080p output only. I don't want a DVR box since Comcast charges $10 to $15/month.

http://customer.comcast.com/Pages/FA...2-e0d34a40a2f6

If anyone is looking for this TV model, the 65 inch is on Sale on Amazon for $750. Mitsubishi model number WD-65638.

Given the price difference you mentioned, only $180, I would go with the 738. More so since you'll be using it with lower resolution content. And as recent postings show, you might not be able to force your set top box to output 1080i or 1080p. Which means the HDTV will have to do the video upscaling, which the 638 is known not to do very well (not as good as the 738).

But since you use a PC you might be better off applying the savings from buying the 638 and getting a Ceton InfiniTV 4 tuner card. But you'll have to check with your cable provider to see if they offer a CableCARD solution.

I use a HDTV tuner card with my 65C10 and the picture quality of HDTV is good. Even SD content is good quality, considering the screen size. But my PC is doing the upscaling to 1080p. I also have a 65" screen. I'm sure the SD video will look worse on a larger screen like a 73", assuming the same viewing distance.

Mitsubishi is in the process of releasing their new 2011 models within the next 1-4 months. So you might want to check out their website to see what the new 73" models might offer over the existing ones (840/740/640/C11/CA1 series).

Can you select only 1080i? Just curious if the selection process forces you to enable the other modes based on your selection of 1080p. Also, by leaving the 24fps mode selected that might require that 720p and 1080p to be selected since 24fps is progressive output (720p/1080p). You might want to reference the manual to see if there are any setting dependencies. Just seems whacky to list 720p, 1080i, 1080p but force you to select all. Why even bother to show them as selections?

There's one other thing that I forgot to include that might push you more towards the 738. You get more color calibration control on the 738. Check out the 638 and 738 manuals to get a better idea on the differences in that regard. I mention this since proper calibration is key for these sets to look their best. So you'll be able to tweak the 738 a bit more to get more accurate colors. But that's only a plus if you're the type of person that will go through the trouble of doing so.

So for $180 bucks more you get these extras:

• Better in-HDTV video upscaling
• Native 3D support beyond checkboard formats (without 3D adapter)
• Additional color calibration controls
• Built in internet apps
• Better built in speakers (good if you'll use them, even on rare occasions)
• Low & high bulb modes (C10/638 only have one bulb mode - low)
• Discrete input selection on the remote (C10/638 you have to cycle through, even with a programmable remote)
• Uses the same platform as the 838, minus a few features

There are probably a few more features that the 738 has over the C10/638. But for such a small difference in price (15% more) I think it's clear to see that it's worth the few extra bucks. Since I'm sure there are one or more items on that list that you would want. For me, the additional color calibration controls are what I would want. But at the time I got my 65C10 HDTV the 65738 model was selling for double the price even when on sale (got my 65C10 for $714).

Thank you Lucid for the input.
Out of those Video processing is the key for me to go with 738. The Discrete input selection on the remote is a plus as well as I use a harmony remote. How does harmony work with 638 then for example if I want to switch from TV to HDMI1(HTPC)?

None of these have built-in IR emitter for 3D right?
Another question, the 738 still takes the full frame 3D signal and converts it to half frame check-board, right? it just does it internally but still displays half frames like 638?

Lucid69,

You're right, the settings have dependencies. Now I have selected 1080p with 30 frames which makes me select 1080i also. I couldn't select 1080p/30 on its own.

Let me see how channel switching works now.

No, but you don't need one if you get DLP link based 3D glasses.


The Mitsubishi DLP HDTVs don't do full HD 3D. That's because the DLP chip is only 1/2 HD resolution and operates at 120Hz. For normal 2D HD it works fine because the screen is updated at 120Hz which equals 1 full HD frame at 60Hz. So in order to do full HD 3D the DLP chip would need to be full HD resolution or the refresh rate would have to be increased to 240Hz. Neither of which are upgradeable for existing units.

That should fix the issue you were having. Either way, 1080i to 1080p doesn't require that much work of the video processor since it doesn't need to be upscaled in resolution. So the video quality shouldn't be effected.

Do you guys use anything special to clean the screen

Or just a damp cloth

The manual recommends using a soft, non-abrasive cloth such as cotton flannel or microfiber which is lightly moistened with water. Mitsubishi sells a screen cleaner solution (part number CLEANER-VSS). Also, one should avoid using cleaners that contain ammonia, bleach, alcohol, benzene, or thinners.

I didn't realize they still made these types of sets. Do these suffer from the "screendoor" affect? What are the benefits and drawbacks of DLP over flat panels?

I may be able to afford a new TV after all.

Screendoor affect ?

Lucid69 a few months back you said that in these new models the brilliant picture setting will not decrease the lamp bulb faster

Are you 100% sure on that ?

The bulb operates at a constant 156 watts regardless of the picture settings used. The 738/838 models have a "bulb setting" for low or high. On those models if you use the high "bulb setting" it will shorten the life of the bulb. But this doesn't apply for the C10/638 models since there is no "bulb setting" mode (it operates in low mode by default).

Thanks lucid thats good to hear , i like the picture setting on brilliant , looks the best for me



Can somebody recommend a surround sound system or home theater speakers which ever the correct term is

For the 60c10, something that's reasonably priced, i have never bought home theater surround sounds before

Since you want to keep things affordable I would recommend a Onkyo home theater in a box setup - speakers, sub woofer, amp/receiver. Onkyo seems to beat most other brands for quality/value on the lower end ($200-400 range). Newegg has the HT-S3400 currently on sale for less than $300 with free shipping. You can also get it at Amazon for a few bucks more which might be worth it if you think you might need to return it for something else.

If you're willing to spend $500 or more then there are a few more options available. Also, don't bother/worry about 7.1 (7 speakers + 1 sub woofer) setups since the majority of movies only have 5.1 sound.

Forgot to add this - be sure to buy 16 gauge speaker wire. The speaker wire that usually comes with home theater in a box kits are too small and put a strain on the amp and will not give you the best audio quality. Don't worry about the brand of speaker wire that you get, just make sure it's 16 gauge or lower. Keep in mind how/where you will mount the speakers so you know how much speaker wire to buy. Also, you might want to look into some cheap speaker mounts for the rear speakers if you plan to hang them on a wall.

i live in an apartment so i cant have the audio too loud in full theater sound

i notice when i watch movies that i have to keep turning the volume up & down cause the action scenes are so loud compare to talking parts, watching tv the sound is ok but for movies on bluray or netflix the sound is lacking a bit

would this sound bar work with my tv?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Vizio-High...d-Bar/11046520

do i need any additional cables

I can't recommend the Vizio sound bar since they try to "simulate" multiple speaker locations from one location. Based on your living environment the Onkyo home theater in a box should work very well since it's best suited for smaller rooms. I think you would be a lot more impressed/happy with the Onkyo solution vs. the sound bar. FYI - that sound bar doesn't support DTS or the newer Blu-ray True HD audio surround formats.

The Onkyo comes with speaker wire but as I mentioned, you should buy 16 gauge or lower speaker wire (brand doesn't matter - just get the cheapest stuff that's 16 gauge). What cables you need depend on what you're connecting to the receiver. At a min. you'll need a HDMI cable to go from the receiver to your HDTV.

What you described is why you should get a home theater setup like the Onkyo. The reason why you're turning up/down the audio is because all sound is coming out of two speakers in the HDTV. With a home theater setup the center speaker is primarily used for dialogue with the left/right front/rears handling surround and effects. With a home theater setup you can adjust the volume level for each speaker. So to solve the problem you're having you would set the right/left front speakers to a lower volume level then the center speaker. This is something you should only have to do once, which is typically only done when you set the system up. Then after that you use the main volume level which increases/decreases the audio to all speakers at the same time. But since the front left/right were set to a lower starting value they will always have less volume than the center speaker.