Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 78

Nice observation indio22. Doesn't bother me in my case, since I keep all of my electronics hooked up to power strips, and switch off when not in use.

I am using the FS51, BS21, and an SW-8 for my first surround set-up. I tried the CS21, but I did not care for it. Sound/dialogue was distracting, because it sounded like it was coming directly from the center speaker. It didn't sound as convincing vs "phantom center". I am using a Marantz SR5006.

I am also using a pair of FS51 and a pair of SW-8 in a 2 channel set-up, but I haven't hooked up yet. Probably tomorrow. The only issue with that is it's going to be used with a vintage receiver with no LFE line out, so I am going to use speaker wire to L/R subs. I am thinking I would set the crossover at around 45-50 while FS51s are in full-range. I use this setup mainly for music and some gaming. I am also going to use the subs as stands for the towers. I do most of my listening from my desk, which has a higher seating position than couch. The subs will put the tweeter at ear level. I am using a 70s vintage Luxman receiver.

I forgot to mention I decided to start posting here, because there wasn't much discussion on the thread about these speakers on the Hoffman forums. Also, I needed to register anyway so I could start asking some technical questions here.

I need atleast 3 posts to attach urls. Sorry...

Hooked em' up:

http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/ef/ef9a0a7a...18_210837.jpeg

I just got a pair of bs41's and a c21 center and really like them so far

I have a 5.1 set up with Polk Monitors and while they sound nice and bright at first, they really fatigue your ears very soon thereafter.

The Polks monitor 40's also have a lot of cabinet vibration and odd frequency rattling when playing music.

The Pioneers cabinets are very well made and when doing the knock test have a nice solid thud to them!

The high end is a little rolled off but my ears adjusted pretty quickly and now music sounds like music and dialogue sounds natural and not like overhyped high end.

That's a pretty formidable looking set up Philimon for not alot of bucks either! Smart idea with the 2 smaller subs, you probably get real good bass coverage vs one bigger 10 or 12" sub.

The two cheaper subs don't go as deep as 1 more expensive sub, but the point of two subs is to not destroy the stereo imaging (and other reasons that I didn't quite understand).

One versus two subs should have negligible effect on stereo imaging as long as you have them crossed over low enough. Low frequency sounds are non-directional.

Where two subs helps is in evening out room response. The second sub can help fill nulls caused by standing waves.

I like the look of the subs under the floor standers. But you're not actually adding much output/headroom that way. One sub in a corner may actually have more output (or better headroom) than two placed how you have them.

where did you get the bs41s?

A thread on the Hoffman forums regarding using two subs. The engineers explain the reasons for needing two subs, and why they should be placed near the mains. The posts are scattered throughout the thread.:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/sh...bwoofer&page=6

Placing any speaker in the corner has been from what I've read and from experience, the worst place to position a speaker, unless that was it's design (rare). I don't see how subs would be different, if you want quality over quantity.

Edit: I have the subs crossed over at 45Hz where the speakers drop off.

I called my local TAD dealer because I wanted to hear the Reference 1 as well as C-R1.

The dealer happily explained to me that on friday, Andrew Jones himself will be in the store at 10AM. Not only do I get to hear the TAD C-R1, Harman's Revel Salon 2, & TAD Reference 1, I get to do so next to ANDREW JONES HIMSELF!

That's a very interesting discussion over there. Thanks for the link!

Looks like I will probably have to go with the switched power strip option as well. One other thing about the SW-8, do you (or any other owners) notice an odor coming from inside the sub case? For example, take a whiff from the port. Inside my SW-8 there is some kind of material off-gassing. I hope over time this dissipates, because for now I will need to move the sub out of my small office, or at least from under the workbench where I am smelling it all day.

Hey, I got them from an ebay seller who ended up living 20 minutes from me so I didn't have to pay for shipping!

Glad I found this place. Looks like a great site to share knoledge with alot of intelligant people.
Been looking at upgrading HT for a while now. I have wanted the Andrew Jones set of pioneers since they came out and since the adition of my new t.v..
Newegg got me the best deal two weeks ago with this insane sale they had. Got the 51's the center, woofer and BS21's and mated it with the pioneer VSX-821-K reciever. Full 5.1 + reciever for $510 total. Holy @$%&!
After hooking it up I was floored. This setup sounds amazing.
Skip forward two days and I wanted to see what it sounded like loud. Girlfriend walked in the room and i cranked it up. Volume goes to 80 on the reciever and i put it at 70. What followed made me sad. White smoke came from tweeter left tower. Aww crap! Turned volume down fast and then turned off receiver and cried. Tweeter right tower also smelled like it must have smoked too, but i was looking at the left one when it happened.
I dont know alot about what the true watts or RMS or "MAx" is because all the companies lie,
but I did try my best to mate the right power to the right speakers + ohms + excetra.
Thankfully Newegg excepted them back via R.M.A. and I get my new ones monday.
Says the 51's handle 130W max. OK. Manual Says the Receiver putts out 120W per channel @ 6ohm, 110W at 8ohm and 80w to each tower in stereo. All speakers are 6ohm. I am pretty sure I had it in NEO6 music when I witnessed the tweetys smoke so in other words 5.1 ch. I do not think the receiver is underpowered and made it clip, I didnt notice any other distortion other than MR. Eddie van halens guitar,mmm brown sound. I think the power rating between receiver and speaker matches up well, however i may be wrong. I have done at least 20 hours of research on the audio topic and all things speakers relating to power in the last week and havent got an answer as to what happened. I sure as heck dont want to see my new spfs51's go up in smoke a=gain so I ask for your guys help. What do you think happened?
Fyi, I only stabbed the volum up to 70 out of 80 i believe the receiver goes too and had it there for about 10 seconds before I seen smoke. If you need any more info on setup let me know I will check back to see if I get any answers from anyone here, thanks. Tim.

Even though your volume dial goes up to 80, your receiver may reach its limits before that depending on the strength of the input signal and the number of channels being driven. Near its limits, a receiver will start clipping, which can be especially damaging to tweeters. Clipping the amplifier can damage speakers even if the speakers are rated to handle more wattage than the amplifier puts out.

Incidentally, receiver wattage ratings by manufacturers are often deceptively more optimistic that the actual output, especially when all channels are being driven. Read the measured output from this review for your receiver.

Phoscheker, thank you for your post. It reminded me that we used to use fuses on speakers when I was building systems in the '70s. Yeah I know, I'm old. I believe that you drove your amplifier into the clipping range and fried your tweeters. This happens because once the amplifier reaches a stage where it's trying to amplify too much for it's capacity, it's essentially putting out DC current to the speakers. This eventually blows out the weakest component, the tweeters. I took a quick look at the manual for your receiver and couldn't find a setting for maximum volume. That would be helpful in a case like this. If I were you, I'd put fuses on the front speakers at least. Most of the power goes there. I think something in the 2 amp. fast blow range would be about right. If that blew too easily, you could try three. But my AR-3A speakers used three amps. and they were much heavier duty. Good luck with your system.

That receiver doesn't nearly reach 120w at 6ohm. The amp clipped and blew out your speakers at that level. There would have been a lot of distortion as sort of a warning as well.

Its not because of too much power, it is because it didn't have enough and was strained beyond its limit.

Distortion, Clipping, those are the signs you must take in count when playing LOUD your speakers, otherwise, you´ll sorry.

Thanks for the quick info gents. Dang clipping is the last thing I wanted to here. Well these speakers do sound amazing the louder they are and I like it loud once in a while. My reciever really starts to add loudness after the volume is up @ 55 or higher, below 50 or so volume level they are kind of quite. I guess that is do to the lower sensitivity of the speakers 87-85. If I want it loud I should listen in stereo mode or 2.1 as to keep more power availiable for the towers to avoid clipping. I like the idea of fuses, I will definiently look into that.
I think I will be safer getting loud in stereo if I want to crank some Metallica or AC/DC.
. What kind of power do I need for this setup to avoid the receiver clipping? Should I have went with the pioneer 1121 or 1021? It looked like those receivers had more total power but that was because it was pushing 7.1 or 9.1 and all i have room for is 5.1 point is is that spec wise it looked like per channel all three receivers were pushing the same power as my 821. So color me confused in this department. possible solution- If I got a vsx1021 which runs 7.1 and only hooked my 5.1 up too it, the receiver would have more "overhead" or backup juice to push the speakers without clipping? True?

While it is true that more speakers have been blown by underpowered amplifiers than overpowered amplifiers, if you want big sound like that I would get speakers that are built to handle that kind of use. Just my opinion. Having said that, I have the same speakers that you have.

These badboys are on sale again over at Neuegg. I'm pulling the trigger!

I spoke to Andrew about the SP-FS51 LR, today. He is incredibly proud of them! Very nice guy too!! Signed a card for me!

Did you tell Newegg knew what really happened? They probably would have told you to "suck an egg"!

HA yeah I know. Well get this, tower left came with the "R" missing on PIONEER, So I had a PIONEE. nO ****. I told them this (which was the truth) and told them that they did not sound that good (total bull crap). Took about a week but they passed inspection at RMA headquarters. I was worried because they smelled like burnt shoes. A week later in shipping and I get them new ones soon. I am now praising Newegg wherever I go and will shop a ton through them.

I'm impressed by your experience with Newegg customer service. Please don't put them out of business.

As for burning out tweeters, it's not that difficult (don't ask). The amplifier is perfectly happy delivering 4 or 5 amps in a narrow frequency range as it is across the entire audible spectrum. So it's easy to turn the tweeter into a 100 watt light bulb, so to speak. That's why clipping is so nasty.