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Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 2

post #31 of 4296
10/2/10 at 7:27pm
That sounds crazy. My only guess would be something like how noise canceling works.
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post #32 of 4296
10/2/10 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

What the hell is that??

Nothing special, I can not figure if its a port or a closed tube.

If its a closed tube then its just redirects rear sound waves from the driver. Non-parallel surfaces do that in other builds.

Anyone building a speakers knows that the worst design is a square box where the driver's rear wave bounces off the back wall and back through the driver, there has to be something to redirect that sound wave. Lots of accoustical stuff on the inner walls will help but placing a tube (PVC or similar) in the middle also redirects the sound wave. Cut a 4" PVC in half and stick it on the back wall
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post #33 of 4296
10/2/10 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaiii View Post

On a side note... did anyone else notice the differences between the picture on the hometheatermag blog and the one in the engadget article? If not, look again and pay attention to the size of the towers, center, and small bookshelf relative to the SP-BS41-LR...

The centers, towers, and bookshelves in the htmag blog actually look to be the S31 series speakers that are not sold in the US, but are available in the UK (not sure where else).

In any case, I would speculate that a part of the reason Pioneer could keep the cost of these speakers so low is that they already had a cabinet design to work with (from the S71 and S31 lines available in the UK).... just adjusted dimensions to work with the drivers that were selected.

Scroll down to see the S31 and S71 product lines...
http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/products.../overview.html

Hey Everyone,

I was the product planner on these new speakers (SP-BS21, SP-BS41, SP-C31, SP-FS51, and the SW-8 Subwoofer). The 3 Series speakers are not part of the same line. I know this may seem a bit confusing. The 3 Series speakers were designed and built buy our folks in Europe and Japan. The Models I listed above were designed and planned by the folks here in Long Beach, Ca. (Myself and Andrew)....

We took the cosmetic direction from the 31 speakers (Which is why they look similar), however we made some changes (Metal Grill instead of cloth, much larger cabinet, much lower price, etc...). Also there are no shared drivers. We designed the drivers in these new models from the ground up (Andrew) as well as the crossover in Long Beach.

My job was to create the line-up, control price, packaging, etc. I like to say that Andrew made them sound great, I made them $89.00 (BS21). I can honestly tell you that we did tons of comparisons to other brands costing as much as 4 times the price and these speakers are hard to beat.

There are several reviews scheduled to come out over the next month or so.

Some unique attributes about the speakers are RF Molded curved cabinets, oversized magnets for improved bass response, 6 element crossover (BS-21), 7 Element on the FS51, 5-way binding posts, 1" soft dome tweeter. The center channel to me is the shining star at only $79.00... Also the SW-8 subwoofer at $139.00 is really hard to beat at even twice the price...

Sorry if this sounds too much like a pitch.. Just really proud of these...

Also, I can assure you that Andrew is very proud of these.. Andrew has often said "$70,000 speakers should be easy to make sound great, $89.00 speakers on the other hand are very difficult make sound great". (I kept pestering him about every extra penny he spent).

Take a listen for yourself...

If you have any questions I am sure Andrew will respond personally on this forum... (I will ask him Monday Morning). He loves talking.....

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics
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post #34 of 4296
10/2/10 at 11:19pm
Now THAT is why I love these forums.

I'm going to have to go check these out and see how they stack up to my Polk Monitor 70's and CS2 -- which fall squarely in the price category you're comparing them to. The smaller woofers in the Pio's will have to be quite special to best my entry-level Polk 6.5" set. But, I believe your specs claim the FS speakers can reach down to 45Hz, so it should be interesting.

If anyone near DC has these in their home, I'd love to audition them in a normal setting. (I'm not a fan of Best Buy auditions, but I'll use that as a last resort...)

Thanks for the info Chris! If Andrew really likes to talk, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to hear (read) what he has to say (write).

Just as an FYI, I currently run my Polks with a Pio 1120 receiver and a Pio plasma, so it might be kinda cool to see Pio speakers in the mix as well.

We shall see.

EDIT: Chris, have you guys ever considered making an entry-level bipole/dipole surround to match? I love my Emotiva ERD's, but there was a severe shortage of comparable wall-mount surrounds (with a real shallow depth -- the ERDs are only 4.25") when I went looking for mine. Just a thought...
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post #35 of 4296
10/2/10 at 11:34pm
darn it i got polk m60's not to long ago ( i do enjoy them ) but if these are better .. i can't do anything about it now
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post #36 of 4296
10/2/10 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neceo View Post

darn it i got polk m60's not to long ago ( i do enjoy them ) but if these are better .. i can't do anything about it now

Ever heard of Craigslist?
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post #37 of 4296
10/3/10 at 5:50am
All this is based on $300 and down in price per pair:
The smaller bookshelves are solid performers - with in their frequency range,
the bass is good. It is tight and musical. The speaker is coherent and has a
balanced presentation. It is open and detailed and the midrange is nice and
the resolution is good - with respect to the $300 and down evaluation. It is
the singing voices that stands out to me. The tweeter in this speaker is nice -
and is not hot sounding and not bright to me. It doesn't seem to be voiced
to jump out at you in the showroom - which is good. The speaker can handle
all types of music - however, you need a sub for heavy metal and rap music.
This speaker is alive and dynamic on movies - based on the $300 thing.
Overall, it is rich and full sounding - upper level speakers will give you more
resolution. Based on what I have heard - this is my new budget reccomendation.
This little speaker will compete with a lot of 5" woofers. For more bass from a
bookshelf speaker - then Pioneer online will have them.
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post #38 of 4296
10/3/10 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Hey Everyone,

I was the product planner on these new speakers (SP-BS21, SP-BS41, SP-C31, SP-FS51, and the SW-8 Subwoofer). The 3 Series speakers are not part of the same line. I know this may seem a bit confusing. The 3 Series speakers were designed and built buy our folks in Europe and Japan. The Models I listed above were designed and planned by the folks here in Long Beach, Ca. (Myself and Andrew)....

We took the cosmetic direction from the 31 speakers (Which is why they look similar), however we made some changes (Metal Grill instead of cloth, much larger cabinet, much lower price, etc...). Also there are no shared drivers. We designed the drivers in these new models from the ground up (Andrew) as well as the crossover in Long Beach.

My job was to create the line-up, control price, packaging, etc. I like to say that Andrew made them sound great, I made them $89.00 (BS21). I can honestly tell you that we did tons of comparisons to other brands costing as much as 4 times the price and these speakers are hard to beat.

There are several reviews scheduled to come out over the next month or so.

Some unique attributes about the speakers are RF Molded curved cabinets, oversized magnets for improved bass response, 6 element crossover (BS-21), 7 Element on the FS51, 5-way binding posts, 1" soft dome tweeter. The center channel to me is the shining star at only $79.00... Also the SW-8 subwoofer at $139.00 is really hard to beat at even twice the price...

Sorry if this sounds too much like a pitch.. Just really proud of these...

Also, I can assure you that Andrew is very proud of these.. Andrew has often said "$70,000 speakers should be easy to make sound great, $89.00 speakers on the other hand are very difficult make sound great". (I kept pestering him about every extra penny he spent).

Take a listen for yourself...

If you have any questions I am sure Andrew will respond personally on this forum... (I will ask him Monday Morning). He loves talking.....

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics

Ask Andrew what this means

A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.
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post #39 of 4296
10/3/10 at 7:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The crossover is one thing - However, it is more than that. I tried
to pull the back terminal plate - it will not pull out. It must be the
way the crossover is laid out.

Yes, they do come out. When I bought the floorstanders, I took off one the the wire terminals just to see what was inside. Wish I took pictures.... After you remove the 4 screws, you may have to lightly wedge a flathead screwdriver in between the terminal cup and the cabinet until it pops off. Then slowly glide it out of the cabinet. Just make sure you don't pull too hard and rip off a soldered speaker wire connection from the crossover. It looked quite impressive to say the least and looked ten times better than the crossovers inside of the Monitor Audio's that these are replacing.
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post #40 of 4296
10/3/10 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Hey Everyone,

I was the product planner on these new speakers (SP-BS21, SP-BS41, SP-C31, SP-FS51, and the SW-8 Subwoofer). The 3 Series speakers are not part of the same line. I know this may seem a bit confusing. The 3 Series speakers were designed and built buy our folks in Europe and Japan. The Models I listed above were designed and planned by the folks here in Long Beach, Ca. (Myself and Andrew)....

We took the cosmetic direction from the 31 speakers (Which is why they look similar), however we made some changes (Metal Grill instead of cloth, much larger cabinet, much lower price, etc...). Also there are no shared drivers. We designed the drivers in these new models from the ground up (Andrew) as well as the crossover in Long Beach.

My job was to create the line-up, control price, packaging, etc. I like to say that Andrew made them sound great, I made them $89.00 (BS21). I can honestly tell you that we did tons of comparisons to other brands costing as much as 4 times the price and these speakers are hard to beat.

There are several reviews scheduled to come out over the next month or so.

Some unique attributes about the speakers are RF Molded curved cabinets, oversized magnets for improved bass response, 6 element crossover (BS-21), 7 Element on the FS51, 5-way binding posts, 1" soft dome tweeter. The center channel to me is the shining star at only $79.00... Also the SW-8 subwoofer at $139.00 is really hard to beat at even twice the price...

Sorry if this sounds too much like a pitch.. Just really proud of these...

Also, I can assure you that Andrew is very proud of these.. Andrew has often said "$70,000 speakers should be easy to make sound great, $89.00 speakers on the other hand are very difficult make sound great". (I kept pestering him about every extra penny he spent).

Take a listen for yourself...

If you have any questions I am sure Andrew will respond personally on this forum... (I will ask him Monday Morning). He loves talking.....

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics



Chris,

Thanks for commenting. Do you know why the tower speakers (FS51) are the same price as the bookshelf BS41's? Not that I am complaining but it seems like this would make the tower speakers the biggest bargain (with the extra 2 woofers).

I went to BB again last night and am simply floored how good these sound. They had the towers set up in one of their small rooms this time. They had a Klipsch and Polk tower next to it. I was able to do a little A and B comparison but ideally still not the same as being at home. Without a doubt the Pioneer's beat the entry level Polks that were twice the price. That alone made my jaw drop as it was very easy to tell. You definitely didn't have to struggle to see the Pioneer was beating out the Polk's with ease. The sound was fuller, better bass and the tweeter is very impressive with voice reproduction.

I also compared it to the Klipsch towers (icon series) they had which were quite a bit more. I know we can't talk about pricing but basically they were almost 4 times the cost for two of them compared to the pioneers . I didn't get to listen as long because BB was closing but from what I heard, I don't know how I could justify the price of the Klipsch speakers (compared to the Pioneer towers). I am not going to state that a pair of $200 speakers destroyed the klipsch offering as I only had about 20 minutes with them. I will say though that what I listened to (pioneer wise) is a set of towers that could easily sell for twice their price.

I am still not crazy about the look of them but honestly I am closer to pulling the trigger. Kudos Pioneer as I would recommend these without any regrets .
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post #41 of 4296
10/3/10 at 7:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Hey Everyone,

I was the product planner on these new speakers (SP-BS21, SP-BS41, SP-C31, SP-FS51, and the SW-8 Subwoofer). The 3 Series speakers are not part of the same line. I know this may seem a bit confusing. The 3 Series speakers were designed and built buy our folks in Europe and Japan. The Models I listed above were designed and planned by the folks here in Long Beach, Ca. (Myself and Andrew)....

We took the cosmetic direction from the 31 speakers (Which is why they look similar), however we made some changes (Metal Grill instead of cloth, much larger cabinet, much lower price, etc...). Also there are no shared drivers. We designed the drivers in these new models from the ground up (Andrew) as well as the crossover in Long Beach.

My job was to create the line-up, control price, packaging, etc. I like to say that Andrew made them sound great, I made them $89.00 (BS21). I can honestly tell you that we did tons of comparisons to other brands costing as much as 4 times the price and these speakers are hard to beat.

There are several reviews scheduled to come out over the next month or so.

Some unique attributes about the speakers are RF Molded curved cabinets, oversized magnets for improved bass response, 6 element crossover (BS-21), 7 Element on the FS51, 5-way binding posts, 1" soft dome tweeter. The center channel to me is the shining star at only $79.00... Also the SW-8 subwoofer at $139.00 is really hard to beat at even twice the price...

Sorry if this sounds too much like a pitch.. Just really proud of these...

Also, I can assure you that Andrew is very proud of these.. Andrew has often said "$70,000 speakers should be easy to make sound great, $89.00 speakers on the other hand are very difficult make sound great". (I kept pestering him about every extra penny he spent).

Take a listen for yourself...

If you have any questions I am sure Andrew will respond personally on this forum... (I will ask him Monday Morning). He loves talking.....

Thanks,

Chris Walker
Director Product Planning
Pioneer Electronics

Hi,

I am curious as to why the FS51 and BS41 are priced the same.

Is it correct to assume that the BS41 has better quality components/drivers? If all else were equal, I don't understand why the BS41 is not cheaper than the FS51 (or FS51 is not more espensive). The BS41 is sold direct, has 2 less woofers and lighter/smaller cabinet so it should be cheaper to ship/manufacture. What are we missing?

Thanks,
Will
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post #42 of 4296
10/3/10 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

Chris,

Thanks for commenting. Do you know why the tower speakers (FS51) are the same price as the bookshelf BS41's? Not that I am complaining but it seems like this would make the tower speakers the biggest bargain (with the extra 2 woofers).

I went to BB again last night and am simply floored how good these sound. They had the towers set up in one of their small rooms this time. They had a Klipsch and Polk tower next to it. I was able to do a little A and B comparison but ideally still not the same as being at home. Without a doubt the Pioneer's beat the entry level Polks that were twice the price. That alone made my jaw drop as it was very easy to tell. You definitely didn't have to struggle to see the Pioneer was beating out the Polk's with ease. The sound was fuller, better bass and the tweeter is very impressive with voice reproduction.

I also compared it to the Klipsch towers (icon series) they had which were quite a bit more. I know we can't talk about pricing but basically they were almost 4 times the cost for two of them compared to the pioneers . I didn't get to listen as long because BB was closing but from what I heard, I don't know how I could justify the price of the Klipsch speakers (compared to the Pioneer towers). I am not going to state that a pair of $200 speakers destroyed the klipsch offering as I only had about 20 minutes with them. I will say though that what I listened to (pioneer wise) is a set of towers that could easily sell for twice their price.

I am still not crazy about the look of them but honestly I am closer to pulling the trigger. Kudos Pioneer as I would recommend these without any regrets .

Pricing is always a touchy subject for me to comment on. Let's just say that Andrew spent too much money on a couple of models too late in the game for me to change some of the retail pricing.

The Floor Standers are a great bargain at $199 a pair. The SP-BS41's are also a good bargain compared to other speakers in this and higher price range, they put out a tremendous amount of bass for a 5 1/4" woofer.

Chris
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post #43 of 4296
10/3/10 at 10:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvictorg View Post

Ask Andrew what this means

A vertical tube feeding out the bottom sucks away standing waves.

I will ask him, however I am guessing this statement is referring to the 31 series speakers... It does not make any sense to me either....

Thanks,

Chris
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post #44 of 4296
10/3/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Pricing is always a touchy subject for me to comment on. Let's just say that Andrew spent too much money on a couple of models too late in the game for me to change some of the retail pricing.

The Floor Standers are a great bargain at $199 a pair. The SP-BS41's are also a good bargain compared to other speakers in this and higher price range, they put out a tremendous amount of bass for a 5 1/4" woofer.

Chris

I suspect that one factor may be volume. I doubt that Pioneer will move nearly as many BS41s as BB will move of the other models. Just a thought.
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post #45 of 4296
10/3/10 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


Pricing is always a touchy subject for me to comment on. Let's just say that Andrew spent too much money on a couple of models too late in the game for me to change some of the retail pricing.

The Floor Standers are a great bargain at $199 a pair. The SP-BS41's are also a good bargain compared to other speakers in this and higher price range, they put out a tremendous amount of bass for a 5 1/4" woofer.

Chris

Thanks Chris. I figure if my wife is okay with another set of tower speakers, I might as well pick them up because I would have to purchase stands with the bookshelf's (and physically the towers take up as much room as a pair of bookshelf's with stands). As long as there is no advantage sound wise (with the bookshelf's using better components), then the towers do seem like a real bargain.
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post #46 of 4296
10/3/10 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

Thanks Chris. I figure if my wife is okay with another set of tower speakers, I might as well pick them up because I would have to purchase stands with the bookshelf's (and physically the towers take up as much room as a pair of bookshelf's with stands). As long as there is no advantage sound wise (with the bookshelf's using better components), then the towers do seem like a real bargain.

Nope. No better components in the BS-41... You will be happy with the floor standers, they put out a substantial more amount of bass...

If anyone has specific questions about the design feel free to post... I will make sure Andrew answers them...

Thanks,

Chris Walker
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post #47 of 4296
10/3/10 at 1:09pm
.
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post #48 of 4296
10/3/10 at 1:20pm
wait the floorstanding speakers are 199 a pair?? not 199 each?
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post #49 of 4296
10/3/10 at 2:18pm
Can you give any information on European pricing and availability, especially in Ireland/UK?

I'm waiting patiently to get my hands on this set, thanks chris
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post #50 of 4296
10/3/10 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neceo View Post

wait the floorstanding speakers are 199 a pair?? not 199 each?

Yup a pair .
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post #51 of 4296
10/3/10 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I suspect that one factor may be volume. I doubt that Pioneer will move nearly as many BS41s as BB will move of the other models. Just a thought.

Good point! I hadn't thought of that.
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post #52 of 4296
10/3/10 at 5:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feyy View Post

Can you give any information on European pricing and availability, especially in Ireland/UK?

I'm waiting patiently to get my hands on this set, thanks chris

Sorry, this line of speakers is not available in Europe right now. Currently only in the United States and soon in Canada and Maybe Mexico.

Chris
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post #53 of 4296
10/3/10 at 7:04pm
so,anyone compared these with hsu bookshelfs? i'm might pick some up also.
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post #54 of 4296
10/3/10 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Sorry, this line of speakers is not available in Europe right now. Currently only in the United States and soon in Canada and Maybe Mexico.

Chris

Excellent news! I live in Canada and was actually thinking of driving 2 hours down to the States to buy a pair of the floorstanders.

Are you in a position to give a more accurate ETA in Canada? Weeks? Months? If it's months away, I will drive down to the States.

Thanks
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post #55 of 4296
10/3/10 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillPWR View Post

Excellent news! I live in Canada and was actually thinking of driving 2 hours down to the States to buy a pair of the floorstanders.

Are you in a position to give a more accurate ETA in Canada? Weeks? Months? If it's months away, I will drive down to the States.

Thanks

Let me find out tomorrow...

Chris
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post #56 of 4296
10/3/10 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOTR View Post

I wonder why the bs41 bookshelf's are the same price per pair as the towers? It makes the towers seem like a bargain with the two extra woofers.

Doesn't make any sense that the towers cost the same as the bookshelves... The towers are probably 3 way, which effectively means two crossovers, extra drivers, larger cabinet, they all result in increase cost, from materials, to assembling, to shipping... If they're both really 200$, which I seriously doubt, then it simply means that the bookshelf is way overpriced. No way the floorstander has equal quality and being sold at the same price, if the bookshelf doesn't have an exorbitant profit margin compared to the floorstander...

Specs are here for each: http://news.ecoustics.com/bbs/messag...81/649747.html
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post #57 of 4296
10/3/10 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post

Doesn't make any sense that the towers cost the same as the bookshelves... The towers are probably 3 way, which effectively means two crossovers, extra drivers, larger cabinet, they all result in increase cost, from materials, to assembling, to shipping... If they're both really 200$, which I seriously doubt, then it simply means that the bookshelf is way overpriced. No way the floorstander has equal quality and being sold at the same price...

Chris, the Pioneer PM on this project, says the prices are correct - I wouldn't doubt him.

From what I can tell from the CEDIA info. it looks like the larger bookshelf is what they are showing off, they are what Kal heard, and they are the speakers that Andrew Jones is proudly smiling next to in the photo's I've seen...

BB chose not to carry them and I would bet my mortgage that it's because they would eat the lunch of a comparably priced speaker they carry that has a higher profit margin... (I rent though, so not a big bet )

Ron
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post #58 of 4296
10/3/10 at 9:04pm
how are the tweeters? are they like uni-q/coaxial like the TAD?
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post #59 of 4296
10/3/10 at 9:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandarf View Post


Doesn't make any sense that the towers cost the same as the bookshelves... The towers are probably 3 way, which effectively means two crossovers, extra drivers, larger cabinet, they all result in increase cost, from materials, to assembling, to shipping... If they're both really 200$, which I seriously doubt, then it simply means that the bookshelf is way overpriced. No way the floorstander has equal quality and being sold at the same price, if the bookshelf doesn't have an exorbitant profit margin compared to the floorstander...

The bs41 and fs51 are indeed the same price ($199 per pair). I honestly don't understand it either. I figured the bookshelf's had to be better in some way after seeing the price comparison.
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post #60 of 4296
10/3/10 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs View Post


Chris, the Pioneer PM on this project says the prices are correct, I wouldn't doubt him.

From what I can tell from the CEDIA info. it looks like the larger bookshelf is what they are showing off, they are what Kal heard, and they are the speakers that Andrew Jones is proudly smiling next to in the photo's I've seen...

BB chose not to carry them and I would bet my mortgage that it's because they would eat the lunch of a comparably priced speaker they carry that has a higher profit margin... (I rent though, so not a big bet )

Ron

It makes sense why BB didn't want to carry them if that is true. Heck it makes me want to order those from pioneer instead because I am very curious . I am still debating on the tower vs the bookshelf ( which I would have to order from pioneer directly).
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