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Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 11

post #301 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabican View Post

So the denon 391, 591, or 1610 wont work with this setup?

They all have the following specs for all 5 channels: 75 watts (8 ohms, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, .08% THD)

The difference between 75w and 100w is about 1.5dB, so it really shouldn't be a major factor in your decision versus sound quality and features that are important to you.
post #302 of 5315
I just ordered a pair of the Pioneer BS41 from J&R for under $118.00/pair shipped. Can't fight the lure of a potential bargain.
post #303 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ematcion View Post

I just ordered a pair of the Pioneer BS41 from J&R for under $118.00/pair shipped. Can't fight the lure of a potential bargain.

Ordered mine last night as well. Has anyone actually heard these yet to comment? I'm hoping to be able to run my setup (these+center+floorstanding) without a sub for the first few months...
post #304 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post

Ordered mine last night as well. Has anyone actually heard these yet to comment? I'm hoping to be able to run my setup (these+center+floorstanding) without a sub for the first few months...

I did make comment to the sound of BS-41 above. Although I only hooked them up with my old Pioneer SX-950 receiver that I use as a studio radio it has plenty of power to drive them and I think the sound is big improvement over the (equally old) Bose 4.2 set that I use down there.

Those Bose speakers predate the current rinky-dink Bose products, and the 4.2 were marketed as smaller alternatives to their direct-reflection model that shook up the stereo world in the 1960's. (someone will remember their nomenclature but I don't) They're pretty good in their way - these Pioneers are better, airier, crisper, less bassy, - all around a clean sound and they showed no sign of the kind of tweeter rattle or woofer booming that you'll hear when crummy speakers are cranked up.

I'm in the midst of a living room theater revamp so haven't got the whole setup together but look forward to a good sound from my Denon 990 driven system upstairs.

Don't worry - you'll like these. They're a bargain but they're NOT cheap speakers at all, if you see what I mean.
post #305 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

Those Bose speakers predate the current rinky-dink Bose products, and the 4.2 were marketed as smaller alternatives to their direct-reflection model that shook up the stereo world in the 1960's. (someone will remember their nomenclature but I don't) They're pretty good in their way - these Pioneers are better, airier, crisper, less bassy, - all around a clean sound and they showed no sign of the kind of tweeter rattle or woofer booming that you'll hear when crummy speakers are cranked up.
...
Don't worry - you'll like these. They're a bargain but they're NOT cheap speakers at all, if you see what I mean.

Thanks. The clean sound is precisely what I'm looking for.
post #306 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post

Ordered mine last night as well. Has anyone actually heard these yet to comment? I'm hoping to be able to run my setup (these+center+floorstanding) without a sub for the first few months...

One comparison I read stated that the pioneer floor standers were lacking bass compared to the guys Bic DV64 floorstanders but they are $80 more for a pair.
post #307 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

They're a bargain but they're NOT cheap speakers at all

I hope that's the case. Originally, I was considering waiting for NHT's revised Super Zero 2.0, but I think the Pioneer's bigger woofer will better integrate with a powered sub. Of course, J&R's sale price sealed the deal.
post #308 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ematcion View Post

I hope that's the case. Originally, I was considering waiting for NHT's revised Super Zero 2.0, but I think the Pioneer's bigger woofer will better integrate with a powered sub. Of course, J&R's sale price sealed the deal.

What kind of sub will you be using?

I would definitely audition both (in your home) before making a decision. The Super Zero are supposed to have a great sound stage.
post #309 of 5315
When used for rear surrounds is there much a difference between the bs21 and bs41? Pricing aside.
post #310 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

One comparison I read stated that the pioneer floor standers were lacking bass compared to the guys Bic DV64 floorstanders but they are $80 more for a pair.

"Lacking bass" in speakers small enough to be placed with convenience is probably the biggest reason for the popularity of hidden subwoofers.

I don't think that bookshelf size speakers ought to be assessed individually any more. In the days of the beginning of the concept "bookshelf speaker" the aim was to provide big speaker sound from the two small speakers and most all of the highly rated versions used 8" or larger bass drivers.

Today speakers are most always meant to be used as elements of a system comprising five or more emitters including a subwoofer in a room and all that is required of each individual speaker is to do it's part well.
post #311 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

One comparison I read stated that the pioneer floor standers were lacking bass compared to the guys Bic DV64 floorstanders but they are $80 more for a pair.

FWIW, a 5 speaker setup of the Bics is $363 with FS and no tax for most people on Amazon. Just throwing that out there in terms of price comparison, haven't had a chance to look at any other details.

I'll get add dedicated sub to my system at some point down the line (when bank account magically recharges) but in the short-term I think the Pios sounded full enough w/out one.

EDIT: My bad, that price only includes one of the floorstanding speakers. They were pictured in a pair. Add $140 for the second speaker, so $503 total vs. $380 plus tax/shipping for the Pioneers.
post #312 of 5315
automaton,

Of course price has to be a consideration in any selection of equipment, I think that's true of just about everyone and it certainly is true for me. Even so we're buying equipment to reproduce sound in a way satisfying to us and would like to have some assurance that our dollars are spent to the best possible result measured not in dollars but rather in sounds.

In our purchasing 'adventures' we've all suffered at least one unhappy result. That experience will usually make a person view manufacturer product claims with some level of suspicion. It should be so as there is ample evidence that some claims are untrue, either partially or in whole.

Yet here, with these Pioneer speakers, we have the engineers who created these speakers posting somewhat proudly about their achievement. Additionally we have positive reports as to sound from from others who have heard the speakers play. I've not seen such a universally positive thread discussing any product as this one has been.

FWIW, I would never buy a BIC product. Also FWIW, the total for two towers, two BS-41, the center and subwoofer was $679.00 total delivered to my house. That was from the Pioneer website's MSRP.
post #313 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

automaton,

Of course price has to be a consideration in any selection of equipment, I think that's true of just about everyone and it certainly is true for me. Even so we're buying equipment to reproduce sound in a way satisfying to us and would like to have some assurance that our dollars are spent to the best possible result measured not in dollars but rather in sounds.

In our purchasing 'adventures' we've all suffered at least one unhappy result. That experience will usually make a person view manufacturer product claims with some level of suspicion. It should be so as there is ample evidence that some claims are untrue, either partially or in whole.

Yet here, with these Pioneer speakers, we have the engineers who created these speakers posting somewhat proudly about their achievement. Additionally we have positive reports as to sound from from others who have heard the speakers play. I've not seen such a universally positive thread discussing any product as this one has been.

FWIW, I would never buy a BIC product. Also FWIW, the total for two towers, two BS-41, the center and subwoofer was $679.00 total delivered to my house. That was from the Pioneer website's MSRP.

I wasn't passing any judgment by linking to the other speakers; they seemed comparably-priced and favorably reviewed, so I passed that along. As I said upthread, I ordered the BS-41s last night and the only thing that kept me from buying the center and floor speakers yesterday is lack of a suitable receiver. I plan to wait until I get the receiver, and watch for the FS model to go on sale at BBuy (the BS-21 is $10 off this week or a 10-12% off RZ coupon) in the meantime (BBuy will pricematch to their own sales within a month of purchase, and Black Friday's a month away- though home audio doesn't tend to get marked down for BF).

So don't misread my post; I'm just getting started picking out some new gear for my place and have no biases one way or another. Again, I have learned a ton in this thread and appreciate all of the help people have offered. I was just sharing some basic information in an attempt to reciprocate.
post #314 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRAW View Post

What kind of sub will you be using?

I would definitely audition both (in your home) before making a decision. The Super Zero are supposed to have a great sound stage.

I will be using a 8" Energy powered sub. The room in which the speakers will be used is relatively small, so I am worried about the among of bass generated by the Energy sub. I think I am more concerned about the integration between the "satellites" and the sub.

Having been a previous owner of NHT's Super One bookshelf speakers (basically NHT Super Zero with a bigger enclosure and woofer), I know first hand about the superior imaging of NHTs. I hope the Pioneers can come close.
post #315 of 5315
Anyone able to compare the Energy CB-5s to the BS-21s at BB? They are roughly the same price when the CB-5s are on sale. I would like to know what people's opinions are when the Pioneers are put up with another speaker 2x the MSRP price.
post #316 of 5315
If you're really interested you might be able to ask the BB sales associate to connect the BS21s in the same Magnolia room with the CB-5s.
post #317 of 5315
BS41 went back to $149 at J&R but now they offer free shipping this week.
post #318 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyrob425 View Post

One comparison I read stated that the pioneer floor standers were lacking bass compared to the guys Bic DV64 floorstanders but they are $80 more for a pair.

For people, whose main concern is bass - then they need to look
some where else. The Pioneer's have bass - however, it is voiced
to balance with the midrange and treble. It is also made to be
joined with a good subwoofer. They are still good by themselves
however, they were not made for head bangers.
post #319 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by ematcion View Post


Having been a previous owner of NHT's Super One bookshelf speakers (basically NHT Super Zero with a bigger enclosure and woofer), I know first hand about the superior imaging of NHTs. I hope the Pioneers can come close.

The Pioneer will do good - However, the NHT is still better. Look for
the balanced and clean sound of the Pioneer - that will draw your
attention.
post #320 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

BS41 went back to $149 at J&R but now they offer free shipping this week.

Glad I paced my order last night, was worried it would be a short-term deal. They arrive on Wednesday, gonna hook them up to my Z-5500 just to test (will be underpowered). Will report back then.
post #321 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by krs View Post

automaton,

Of course price has to be a consideration in any selection of equipment, I think that's true of just about everyone and it certainly is true for me. Even so we're buying equipment to reproduce sound in a way satisfying to us and would like to have some assurance that our dollars are spent to the best possible result measured not in dollars but rather in sounds.

In our purchasing 'adventures' we've all suffered at least one unhappy result. That experience will usually make a person view manufacturer product claims with some level of suspicion. It should be so as there is ample evidence that some claims are untrue, either partially or in whole.

Yet here, with these Pioneer speakers, we have the engineers who created these speakers posting somewhat proudly about their achievement. Additionally we have positive reports as to sound from from others who have heard the speakers play. I've not seen such a universally positive thread discussing any product as this one has been.

FWIW, I would never buy a BIC product. Also FWIW, the total for two towers, two BS-41, the center and subwoofer was $679.00 total delivered to my house. That was from the Pioneer website's MSRP.

A lot of people are happy with Bic - however, they lack in the midrange
and they are not clean sounding. They also have a hot treble. They are
trying to draw you in with the Bass.
post #322 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3fug33 View Post

When used for rear surrounds is there much a difference between the bs21 and bs41? Pricing aside.

The 41 will have more bass - the midrange and treble should
be the same. They were all voiced matched.
post #323 of 5315
What do you all think of the Denon AVR 591 to pair with the Pioneers? Roughly $300-$330, depending on where/when I snag it.
post #324 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by automaton View Post

What do you all think of the Denon AVR 591 to pair with the Pioneers? Roughly $300-$330, depending on where/when I snag it.

It should do fine. Go 591 or higher.
post #325 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

The Pioneer will do good - However, the NHT is still better. Look for the balanced and clean sound of the Pioneer - that will draw your attention.

I suspect that will be the case.
post #326 of 5315
After looking over this thread, I decided to audition the new floor speakers at the local best buy demo room. Perhaps I was expecting too much, but i was a bit disappointed. While they definitely sounded better (on the low end and midrange) than the various surround style speakers, they seemed to be lacking in the upper frequency range. This was very apparent when you switched over to the small Polk floor standers that were situated next to them. Whle the Pioneers did quite well with the midrange and had nice clarity of vocals, the highs were noticeably lacking in comparison to the Polks. It's kind of funny, but if the Pioneers had a more crisp upper range, they would be outstanding. The Polks had pronounced highs, but not nearly as good vocal response as the Pioneers.

Guess i shouldn't be surprised. You can't expect high end sound from an entry level speaker. Instead of trying to make the BEST $99 speaker, perhaps they should apply their resources into making a $249 speaker to go after the higher end competitors. If they can make a $99 speaker perform as well as a $299 speaker, imagine what they would be able to accomplish with a larger budget...
post #327 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeB99 View Post

After looking over this thread, I decided to audition the new floor speakers at the local best buy demo room. Perhaps I was expecting too much, but i was a bit disappointed. While they definitely sounded better (on the low end and midrange) than the various surround style speakers, they seemed to be lacking in the upper frequency range. This was very apparent when you switched over to the small Polk floor standers that were situated next to them. Whle the Pioneers did quite well with the midrange and had nice clarity of vocals, the highs were noticeably lacking in comparison to the Polks. It's kind of funny, but if the Pioneers had a more crisp upper range, they would be outstanding. The Polks had pronounced highs, but not nearly as good vocal response as the Pioneers.

Guess i shouldn't be surprised. You can't expect high end sound from an entry level speaker. Instead of trying to make the BEST $99 speaker, perhaps they should apply their resources into making a $249 speaker to go after the higher end competitors. If they can make a $99 speaker perform as well as a $299 speaker, imagine what they would be able to accomplish with a larger budget...

This is why speaker preference is so subjective...

You find the Pioneer's high end lacking compared to Polk...

I (and some others around here) find some Polk speakers to be bright with "overpronounced" highs. I'll admit that my experience with Polk is limited to the Monitor series.

If you prefer that type of sound, it's no surprise you didn't like the Pioneer's.

One other caveat... I would venture a guess that the speakers were not level matched during the comparison. It's not uncommon to prefer the louder speaker (Polk TSI are a good bit more sensitive).... and is exactly why all comparisons need to be level matched.

Another thing that is not uncommon is to like the speaker with perceived detail due to accentuated highs... only to find that after extended listening those speakers become fatiguing.

While I won't argue that the Pioneer's don't have a stellar top end... I think they are pretty well balanced, especially for a budget speaker... and I'm glad they didn't go the route of designing in an upper bass bump and peaked up treble.

Again, all personal preference though.
post #328 of 5315
Just remember that initial brightness gets annoying after a while.

He's also right about the louder speaker usually being preferred.

But some people like that brightness in their speakers. To each his own.
post #329 of 5315
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Just remember that initial brightness gets annoying after a while.

He's also right about the louder speaker usually being preferred.

But some people like that brightness in their speakers. To each his own.

That was my wife's reaction in the store when switching back and forth between the Polks and the Pioneers. After adjusting for the volume though I thought the Pioneers sounded better-- more balanced, absolutely. Going to head back again and take another listen-- the Polks Monitor 60s are $115 each on Newegg right now, with the center (CS10) going for $85, so priced pretty comparably to the Pioneers. I spent about 45 minutes playing music from my iPod in the store so I could get a sense of what the stuff I'll actually be listening to will sound like on them. Have also read very good things about the Polk CS20, but that tacks some more cost on vs. the Pioneer.
post #330 of 5315
Picked up a center speaker today at BB. There were none on the floor, not even a tag for them. Sales person had to look it up on the PC then go off for 10 mins to find one of 2 they had in stock.

Have not had a chance to audition it yet.

My BS41's on UPS show delivery on 10/20 which seems too fast for ground from NY to So. Cal.

While I was at BB I was checked out the HT receivers. I was planning on getting a Pioneer 1120-K but found the construction is really really cheap. Phenolic single sided PCB for the main amp board, and a lot of them used for the front panel buttons/knobs, etc. Really rubbed me wrong.
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