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Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 103

post #3061 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

My initial observations were repeated. To me the 22's seem a bit brighter than the 21's and the 41's, and not in a way that I find pleasing. The difference can be subtle, and may depend on the material but it did seem that way to me.
Brian

You must be someone, who prefers speakers where the highs tend to roll off. smile.gif
We all tend to hear things differently - the treble in the BS22 to my sensitive ears,
do sound good to me, with no somewhat harsh or edgy treble. Enjoy your speakers!
post #3062 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 View Post

You must be someone, who prefers speakers where the highs tend to roll off. smile.gif
We all tend to hear things differently - the treble in the BS22 to my sensitive ears,
do sound good to me, with no somewhat harsh or edgy treble. Enjoy your speakers!

Perhaps I do. :-)

I do see that the 41's are again $99 at NE for 2 days....

Brian
post #3063 of 5316
Is the difference between the bs21 and bs41 large if being paired with a subwoofer?
post #3064 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prakhar View Post

Is the difference between the bs21 and bs41 large if being paired with a subwoofer?

No, it's not. Just make sure you set your crossover properly.
post #3065 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitsBoy View Post

Wow, both best buy and parts express were out of stock on friday. Still happy going with the older generation for the time being. Ill upgrade when the new series is a little more prevalent.

Why is everyone so sure the new ones are an upgrade? I did not know about them till I stopped in worst buy today to look for a DP cable they didnt have. As soon as I saw them I said oh that is why the 51s disappeared a some weeks ago. So I took the cover off and first thing I said was, smaller drivers, BB or someone pushed to reduce the price to make more profit. No more metal grill, instead cheap typical grill. So I came here looking to see what was being said since my first reaction was very negative. Price up, costs down, sounds like brand dilution. to my surprise alot of people here seem to think they are an upgrade. I have never seen a good cnet review so I honestly cannot trust them just looked like oh look wow everything is just better, no negatives at all more base with smaller drivers? Possible yes, in a lower or same cost scenario less likely. Does not sound like an honest or well thought out review. I guess time will tell but I wouldn't be in any rush to sidegrade these speakers to the new model, let people feel them out and lets of reviews com in first.
post #3066 of 5316
post #3067 of 5316
If you have kids and or animals like I do you will appreciate the metal grills on the first run speakers!
post #3068 of 5316
I have kids and a dog, but everything except the towers will be out of their reach so I'm primarily concerned about sound first, value second.
post #3069 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post

Why is everyone so sure the new ones are an upgrade? I did not know about them till I stopped in worst buy today to look for a DP cable they didnt have. As soon as I saw them I said oh that is why the 51s disappeared a some weeks ago. So I took the cover off and first thing I said was, smaller drivers, BB or someone pushed to reduce the price to make more profit. No more metal grill, instead cheap typical grill. So I came here looking to see what was being said since my first reaction was very negative. Price up, costs down, sounds like brand dilution. to my surprise alot of people here seem to think they are an upgrade. I have never seen a good cnet review so I honestly cannot trust them just looked like oh look wow everything is just better, no negatives at all more base with smaller drivers? Possible yes, in a lower or same cost scenario less likely. Does not sound like an honest or well thought out review. I guess time will tell but I wouldn't be in any rush to sidegrade these speakers to the new model, let people feel them out and lets of reviews com in first.

The only model that has smaller drivers is the C22. It has the same 55hz rating so there is no claim that I see of more bass from a smaller driver. For all we know the bass stayed the same on that model and who knows what happened to sensitivity as that isn't listed anywhere that I can find. The claim was more bass from the same size driver (52 vs 51 or 22 vs 21) thanks to a redesign of the main driver and a larger cabinet in the 52.

I'll conciede that the c22 would have been more of an upgrade to me if they had not gone from 5.24" to 4" drivers. The extra highs from the tweeter is subjective as well, though I don't personally find them harsh, and I am quite sensitive to harsh tweeters.

The 52s are an upgrade on several fronts. Better driver design is one, but the taller cabinet that gets the tweeter clocer to ear level is a big deal to me. Also getting rid of the DIY looking round grills is huge for me. That's personal preference though.
post #3070 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by cubateve View Post

I have kids and a dog, but everything except the towers will be out of their reach so I'm primarily concerned about sound first, value second.
I cannot speak of the sound of the 22's as I have not heard them yet but the 21's in my system sound like sweet sweet music to my ears!
post #3071 of 5316
Ok, I am no audiophile and only posted a few things on here. I was mostly into car audio as I spend a lot of time driving and recently started getting hooked on home theater and audio. I must also say that I am the best for your buck type guy but not a, it's cheap and good type of guy. I decided to go with the 1 series pioneers when they first came out after reading all the rave reviews and then demoing them myself. As happy as I am with them I decided to put another system together in another room with the new 2 series. As much as I like the 1 series I like the 2 series better. They do produce more bass and sound smoother and more refined. As far as those 4" woofers go,(wow) I don't know what kind of magic Andrew Jones pulled out of his bag of tricks but in my opinion they sound great. I really could not believe my ears when I first heard them. With both systems I run Denon receivers. With the 1 series I use a acoustech PL-200 subwoofer and the whole thing sounds great.With the 2 series I use a Klipsch RW-12D subwoofer and it sounds wonderful. If you are on on a very tight budget get the 1 series for $200.00-$230.00 and you will be very happy. If you can swing it I got the the 2 series from Best Buy $350.00. That was for the FS-52, BS-22, C-22. You will be happy with either series. In my own opinion, I really like the 1 series and love the 2 series.
post #3072 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by tankbulldog View Post

Ok, I am no audiophile and only posted a few things on here. I was mostly into car audio as I spend a lot of time driving and recently started getting hooked on home theater and audio. I must also say that I am the best for your buck type guy but not a, it's cheap and good type of guy. I decided to go with the 1 series pioneers when they first came out after reading all the rave reviews and then demoing them myself. As happy as I am with them I decided to put another system together in another room with the new 2 series. As much as I like the 1 series I like the 2 series better. They do produce more bass and sound smoother and more refined. As far as those 4" woofers go,(wow) I don't know what kind of magic Andrew Jones pulled out of his bag of tricks but in my opinion they sound great. I really could not believe my ears when I first heard them. With both systems I run Denon receivers. With the 1 series I use a acoustech PL-200 subwoofer and the whole thing sounds great.With the 2 series I use a Klipsch RW-12D subwoofer and it sounds wonderful. If you are on on a very tight budget get the 1 series for $200.00-$230.00 and you will be very happy. If you can swing it I got the the 2 series from Best Buy $350.00. That was for the FS-52, BS-22, C-22. You will be happy with either series. In my own opinion, I really like the 1 series and love the 2 series.

Same here man. Long-time car audio fiend, who's now getting more into home theater A/V in the past year or so.

The 1 series is nice, and I have enjoyed them, but the efficiency is what gets me. Supposedly the 2 series is more efficient than the 1 series, which means the 2 series will play louder than the 1 series at the same volume level. Have you found this to be true?
post #3073 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio81 View Post

Same here man. Long-time car audio fiend, who's now getting more into home theater A/V in the past year or so.
The 1 series is nice, and I have enjoyed them, but the efficiency is what gets me. Supposedly the 2 series is more efficient than the 1 series, which means the 2 series will play louder than the 1 series at the same volume level. Have you found this to be true?

With narrow bandwidth AVR generated test tones and an SPL meter, the 22 is about 3db more efficient than the 21. I am not sure what the published spec is off the top of my head.

But, are you running low on watts? I can't see making a speaker buying decision based solely on efficiency.

Brian
post #3074 of 5316
Haha, na man, I’m good on wattage. It’s just that the series 1 are not efficient at all, and I was just curious as to how the newer series compares.
post #3075 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio81 View Post

Haha, na man, I’m good on wattage. It’s just that the series 1 are not efficient at all, and I was just curious as to how the newer series compares.

The data that I could find (Pioneer web site for the 22's, Newegg for the 21's) says that the 22 is spec'd at 85dB, the 21 is 84dB.

My measurements with the test tones and SPL meter show that to get 75dB at the MLP, I needed to boost the trims on the 21's by 2 to 3 dB relative to the same signal fed through the 22's.

I don't know that there is any sonic consequence of that, but they do differ. If efficiency is your game, there is always Klipsch. :-)

BGL
post #3076 of 5316
Hi, long time reader, including this whole thread. 1st time poster. I like good audio, but buy gear very rarely. Built a HeathKit receiver as a teen in the 1970s, then upgraded to an NAD 7140 receiver and KEF C40 speakers in the mid-1980s. (Did Andrew Jones design those KEFs?) Now that we're well into the 21st century, I finally decided to set up a HT, after not even owning a tv for decades — I'm weird that way, didn't own a car for many years either... motorcycles are another story. After much research, I bought a Samsung 51" plasma last spring, and more recently:

Denon AVR 1713 (new open-box on Ebay, $325 smile.gif )
FS52 fronts (BB, $125 each)
C22 center (BB, $100)
Bic F12 sub (Amazon, $200)

Very pleased with these — watching Netflix streaming movies, and getting into Pandora and internet radio, occasionally DVD or Blu-ray discs in the PS3 (used, Craigslist). Been using the old KEFs as rear speakers, but they're not voice matched at all, despite all the Auddesey magic. It's not very noticeable with 5.1 movies, but I've been playing with Dolby ProLogic II and multichannel stereo for music, and it's pretty unlistenable that way. Which, aside from introducing myself, brings me to the point of this post: For voice-matching the rears, is there much advantage in getting another set of FS52s, vs BS41s, vs BS22's? Medium-size room, maybe 10x17. Cost isn't critical in this range, but if it doesn't make much difference... Thanks for your learned opinions. Seriously, this discussion has been quite enlightening.
post #3077 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiBiker View Post

Hi, long time reader, including this whole thread. 1st time poster.
Thanks for your learned opinions. Seriously, this discussion has been quite enlightening.

Welcome to the AVS Forums and to the 21st century!
post #3078 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiBiker View Post

For voice-matching the rears, is there much advantage in getting another set of FS52s, vs BS41s, vs BS22's?

When combined with a decent subwoofer, a suitable crossover frequency and properly EQed, your speakers should all be set to "small" in the receiver and the resulting signal should be more than adequately handled by the two or four SP-BS22-LR surround speakers, being full range bookshelf and not satellite speakers. The low end extension offered by the SP-FS52 speakers should be of little advantage.

That said, since you would need to buy stands for each of the bookshelf speakers and "Cost isn't critical in this range", you should definitely get another two or four SP-FS52 speakers and enjoy the perfectly matched response, nice low crossover frequency and tweeters at the perfect height all round*. That way you will get the most out of your surround mixed music and the sub can concentrate on doing what it does best in movies.

Others in this thread have said that the first and second generation speakers are not well voice matched, so you are probably well advised to avoid mixing them.

*[This is a debatable point, but I don't think you can't go wrong having them all at ear level, which the taller SP-FS52 speakers should be.]
post #3079 of 5316
My front stage is the C21 and two FS51s. The center channel will be about 5" off the floor in the entertainment center. The TV will be sitting right above that at about 15". It's a fairly tall TV as it is a 65". My question is what to do with my FS51s. I have 2 small endtables sitting around that I was planning to put them on, but they are about 20" off the floor, is that ok to do? Or would I be better off just setting the speakers on the floor? Thanks.
post #3080 of 5316
I am planning for a 7.2 setup in a 20*20 basement. Will these speakers do the magic, like the FS51 pair and C21 with BS21 as four surrounds? Can the owners of these speakers clarify please.
post #3081 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR Cholan View Post

I am planning for a 7.2 setup in a 20*20 basement. Will these speakers do the magic, like the FS51 pair and C21 with BS21 as four surrounds? Can the owners of these speakers clarify please.
Howdy RR Cholan,
I have these in a room that is (17 - 14) w/ 2 openings on either end powered by a Pioneer VSX1122 and they play clean and loud above what I can handle. I saw in the other thread you started you have children, these are great for keeping little fingers off the speakers with the metal grills. Going from a Boss system to anything like these will be a huge jump in SQ, IMHO. Get yourself a good sub for the low stuff and you will have plenty of power to drive these.
post #3082 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyghwayman View Post

Welcome to the AVS Forums and to the 21st century!

Thanks, man. Nice century you got here. I feel like a kid in a candy store with all the digital (streaming) music available. Btw, the one drawback for me of FS52 vs 51 was the cloth grill. My cat destroys anything and everything, and I would gladly have chosen metal over cloth — if the SQ had been equal. Don't know how much I would like the 51s, but I love these 52s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

[...] the resulting signal should be more than adequately handled by the two or four SP-BS22-LR surround speakers
That said, since you would need to buy stands for each of the bookshelf speakers and "Cost isn't critical in this range", you should definitely get another two or four SP-FS52 speakers and enjoy the perfectly matched response, nice low crossover frequency and tweeters at the perfect height all round

A perfectly sensible reply, thanks. As I feared, it's up to me to choose "more than adequate" versus "perfectly matched". rolleyes.gif Maybe I'll just enjoy 2.1 music for a while longer and the decision will come to me in a vision, or a big sale on the floorstanders.
post #3083 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyghwayman View Post

Howdy RR Cholan,
I have these in a room that is (17 - 14) w/ 2 openings on either end powered by a Pioneer VSX1122 and they play clean and loud above what I can handle. I saw in the other thread you started you have children, these are great for keeping little fingers off the speakers with the metal grills. Going from a Boss system to anything like these will be a huge jump in SQ, IMHO. Get yourself a good sub for the low stuff and you will have plenty of power to drive these.

Thanks and I really appreciate your reply. Your reply gives me lot of confidence on those speakers (even after reading lot of reviews). I am plannin to buy a BIC 12" and a Pioneer woofer for the 7.2 setup. What do you think? Also does the pioneer 41 series make a difference than the 21 series for the surronds.
post #3084 of 5316
Just bought a pair of 51s, a C21, and an sw8 along with a denon 1712. I have a relatively spacious studio apartment.

Was the subwoofer a mistake? Should I get this Polk instead? Something much more expensive? Is there a point in having a center channel if I'm mostly listening to stereo music? I mostly listen to classical, but I also am going to use it to watch movies and stuff so I want something that will be able to keep up with whatever.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290034

(part of wanting this polk is that it is better looking, it's also front firing which I think is more respectful of my downstairs neighbors)

And what about this polk center channel instead of the Pioneer? Do they match up well?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290210

Thanks

And my goal was to get a nice stereo setup that is 7.1-capable in the future for $500. Did I do it right? I think I've spent $504 for the whole party including tax and a logitech harmony 650.
post #3085 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizek View Post

Just bought a pair of 51s, a C21, and an sw8 along with a denon 1712. I have a relatively spacious studio apartment.
Was the subwoofer a mistake? Should I get this Polk instead? Something much more expensive? Is there a point in having a center channel if I'm mostly listening to stereo music? I mostly listen to classical, but I also am going to use it to watch movies and stuff so I want something that will be able to keep up with whatever.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290034
(part of wanting this polk is that it is better looking, it's also front firing which I think is more respectful of my downstairs neighbors)
And what about this polk center channel instead of the Pioneer? Do they match up well?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290210
Thanks
And my goal was to get a nice stereo setup that is 7.1-capable in the future for $500. Did I do it right? I think I've spent $504 for the whole party including tax and a logitech harmony 650.

Spacious and the SW8 don't really go together. I've been using one for a long time, primarily for music, in a very small space and it's a lot better than you would think, but it is definitely not going to wow in a fully open studio apartment. If you already have it or it's coming, give it a shot and see what you think. With some smart placement you might be happy. Personally, I wouldn't go with the Polk sub. Maybe look for a good sale on the Energy 10.3 if you need something bigger and better.

As for the center channel, I would definitely stick with the matching C21. You will appreciate the center for those few movies you do watch.

You are certainly on the right path for building a great budget surround system!
post #3086 of 5316
Agreed. I have used that polk sub before, and while it does play much lower than the pioneer, it's pretty boomy and I would say pass on it. I've never heard the energy 10.3, but everyone on here seems to love it.
post #3087 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR Cholan View Post

Thanks and I really appreciate your reply. Your reply gives me lot of confidence on those speakers (even after reading lot of reviews). I am plannin to buy a BIC 12" and a Pioneer woofer for the 7.2 setup. What do you think? Also does the pioneer 41 series make a difference than the 21 series for the surronds.

Do you mean the BIC F12 and the Pioneer SW-8 sub? It's generally recommended to use two of the exact subs in a dual sub setup. And in this case, the Pioneer SW-8 would be outclassed in output, if would not be able to keep up with the F12.
post #3088 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by AikiBiker View Post

Thanks, man. Nice century you got here. I feel like a kid in a candy store with all the digital (streaming) music available. Btw, the one drawback for me of FS52 vs 51 was the cloth grill. My cat destroys anything and everything, and I would gladly have chosen metal over cloth — if the SQ had been equal. Don't know how much I would like the 51s, but I love these 52s.
Yep technology is awesome but I'm still waiting for cars to fly rolleyes.gif (Jetsons). Anywho, that is the very reason I went with the 51's, 2-cats, 2-dogs and a 1yr old grandson cool.gif . I have been wondering if the metal grills from the 51's would fit/work on the 52's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR Cholan View Post

Thanks and I really appreciate your reply. Your reply gives me lot of confidence on those speakers (even after reading lot of reviews). I am plannin to buy a BIC 12" and a Pioneer woofer for the 7.2 setup. What do you think? Also does the pioneer 41 series make a difference than the 21 series for the surronds.
NP, If you are referring to the Pio woofer as in the SW8, IMO I would pass for something better like the Bic F12 or the Energy 10.3. I am currently using 1 Bic F12 in my setup and it does a good job with the low stuff but if I had to do it again I would save/spend more for a sub the that can go a lot lower and clean.
As for the 41's I have no clue confused.gif , timber/voice matching ???
post #3089 of 5316
Quote:
Originally Posted by drizek View Post

Just bought a pair of 51s, a C21, and an sw8 along with a denon 1712.
Drizek, welcome to AVS Forums and the Pio speaker thread.
IMO, vraxoin was right on w/ his advice on keeping the C21 (it is voiced matched w/ the 51's). Now all you have left is a pair of BS21's or 2 pairs and you'll have the complete 5.1 / 7.1 system. Enjoy and please let us know how the SW8 does in your space.
post #3090 of 5316
For what it's worth, CNET just posted a review of the 2-series:
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/pioneer-sp-pk52fs/4505-7868_7-35477425.html
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