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Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 144

post #4291 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Here is the 31 info, http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Speakers/Home+Theater+Speakers/S-31B-LR-K. Didn't know there were stands available,

Place the S-31B-LR-K speakers precisely where the sound will be most appealing to you, with the optional telescoping metal CP-31B speaker stand (sold separately).

Interesting. Thanks for that link. I sure as heck overlooked those. No mention of AJ....perhaps these are not one of his designs?

Brian
post #4292 of 5377
I used the BS22s in my garage for a short time and have been recommending them to people ever since. They get amazingly low for a 4" speaker and have a very mellow, mid-rangey sound that I really like. One could do much worse than buying 2 (or 3) pairs, and adding a quality subwoofer. Pretty awesome theater on the cheap.
post #4293 of 5377
I used the BS22s in my garage for a short time and have been recommending them to people ever since. They get amazingly low for a 4" speaker and have a very mellow, mid-rangey sound that I really like. One could do much worse than buying 2 (or 3) pairs, and adding a quality subwoofer. Pretty awesome theater on the cheap.
post #4294 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

Interesting. Thanks for that link. I sure as heck overlooked those. No mention of AJ....perhaps these are not one of his designs?

Brian

Exactly, so I wonder what the history exactly is, since the old models look the same as the new AJ endorsed models...would love to have direct comparisons of all, and a word on what AJ did to make them "his".
post #4295 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Exactly, so I wonder what the history exactly is, since the old models look the same as the new AJ endorsed models...would love to have direct comparisons of all, and a word on what AJ did to make them "his".

(From the last page) He talks about them -
Quote:
Originally Posted by charmerci View Post

Interesting talk with Andrew Jones about speaker design and manufacturing from one year ago. (It's about an hour long.)

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/112

First half hour is general talk and the second is about this line.
post #4296 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

Interesting. Thanks for that link. I sure as heck overlooked those. No mention of AJ....perhaps these are not one of his designs?

Brian

The 31 series were not designed by Andrew.

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
post #4297 of 5377
I have one pioneer bs21 I'm going to be using as my center channel, should I get another pair of bs21's or get the bs22's to use as the left and right? I know there will be a difference in sound between the two series, I'm just wondering how much. The wife has put the foot down on spending so I can only by one pair otherwise I would just get two pair of bs22's...but that's not an option lol.
post #4298 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDB30 View Post

I have one pioneer bs21 I'm going to be using as my center channel, should I get another pair of bs21's or get the bs22's to use as the left and right? I know there will be a difference in sound between the two series, I'm just wondering how much. The wife has put the foot down on spending so I can only by one pair otherwise I would just get two pair of bs22's...but that's not an option lol.
How did you end up with only one BS21? If you had the pair wouldn't it make more sense to buy the C21 center channel?
post #4299 of 5377
On a related note to SDB30’s question, what's the general concensus on mixing/matching the first generation and second generation of Andrew Jones' Pioneer speakers? Are they similar enough that timber matching shouldn't be an issue? I wouldn't mind upgrading my FS-51’s to the 52’s but wouldn't do so if it meant having to replace the C-21 and BS-21’s as well.
post #4300 of 5377
Several of us have asked but the response has always been "theory". All we want to know is if the Pioneer fronts are mixed will some awful sound experience occur and no one has answered that.
post #4301 of 5377
Awful sound experience? Unlikely. Non-optimal? Sure.

I wouldn't bother replacing properly-functioning SP-FS51s with SP-FS52s while retaining the SP-C21 and SP-BS21. The improvement doesn't seem enough to justify the swap out. Now, if you were replacing SP-BS21 fronts with a pair of SP-FS52s... that would probably be worthwhile.
post #4302 of 5377
NewEgg is selling more of the first generation bookshelf speakers (SP-BS21-LR) for $69.99, so now's the time to complete that 7.1 (or 9.1 or 11.1 or...) first generation set or just get a bargain stereo set.

Seeing one of the range on sale usually meant that others would soon appear, but since these are no longer manufactured I would not rely on this and try to start to buy a first generation set.
post #4303 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

NewEgg is selling more of the first generation bookshelf speakers (SP-BS21-LR) for $69.99, so now's the time to complete that 7.1 (or 9.1 or 11.1 or...) first generation set or just get a bargain stereo set.

Seeing one of the range on sale usually meant that others would soon appear, but since these are no longer manufactured I would not rely on this and try to start to buy a first generation set.

I am really surprised that they have more inventory of the 21. By now, I would have expected the 22's to be be available for cheap (relative term there...they are "cheap" even at list!).

With the rave that the 22's just got in Stereophile, it may be a bit before the heavy discounts show up.

Brian
post #4304 of 5377
Now if someone would just put the 51s or 52s on sale, I would be a happy camper...finding it hard to pull the trigger at the $124+/each that I'm seeing them for.
post #4305 of 5377
If you're near a Fry's, they're $77 each.
post #4306 of 5377
No such luck, and not available online.

EDIT: I was able to order online and get frys.com customer service to price match the ad tongue.gif YMMV
Edited by jgk1971 - 7/13/13 at 7:48pm
post #4307 of 5377
Just picked up a set of FS22s and C22 last weekend to pair with a VSX-1123-K. Been very happy with it so far. Tossed in a JBL Sub10 (Venue series) I still had around from my old HT setup. A couple years ago I migrated to soundbars and was never truly happy but found them adequate. Then after spending a week in a 2014 Acura RLX press car with the Krell sound system (which is a truly amazing factory system), I had to upgrade my home setup. Researched the Andrew Jones speakers and found them on sale at Newegg and had Best Buy price match.

Now I need to figure out where to put Surround speakers in my awkward entertainment area. Anyone running 4 FS52s for 5.1? It seems like the cost of a BS22 with stands will be almost as much as FS52s. But I do love em, wish I had more time to crank it but I usually have to wait for my wife to be gone smile.gif.
post #4308 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post


Now I need to figure out where to put Surround speakers in my awkward entertainment area. Anyone running 4 FS52s for 5.1? It seems like the cost of a BS22 with stands will be almost as much as FS52s. But I do love em, wish I had more time to crank it but I usually have to wait for my wife to be gone smile.gif.

Shouldn't the rears be ear level?
post #4309 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowJ20 View Post

Shouldn't the rears be ear level?
All the tweeters should be ear level except for front heights.
I would highly recommend towers over bookshelf speakers for surrounds if one has the room and can place them properly.
Edited by Bond 007 - 7/14/13 at 7:19pm
post #4310 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post

Just picked up a set of FS22s and C22 last weekend to pair with a VSX-1123-K. Been very happy with it so far. Tossed in a JBL Sub10 (Venue series) I still had around from my old HT setup. A couple years ago I migrated to soundbars and was never truly happy but found them adequate. Then after spending a week in a 2014 Acura RLX press car with the Krell sound system (which is a truly amazing factory system), I had to upgrade my home setup. Researched the Andrew Jones speakers and found them on sale at Newegg and had Best Buy price match.

Now I need to figure out where to put Surround speakers in my awkward entertainment area. Anyone running 4 FS52s for 5.1? It seems like the cost of a BS22 with stands will be almost as much as FS52s. But I do love em, wish I had more time to crank it but I usually have to wait for my wife to be gone smile.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowJ20 View Post

Shouldn't the rears be ear level?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

All the tweeters should be ear level except for front heights.
I would highly recommend towers over bookshelf speakers for surrounds if one has the room and can place them properly.

The rear and side surround speakers are typically recommended to be placed above ear level.
post #4311 of 5377
Hard to place them above ear level without a mounting solution. Any suggestions for a ceiling drop down mount? I have a wall on one side and a half wall on the other side. The halfwall is about as tall as the tower though, which is already at my ear level
post #4312 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt 
Anyone running 4 FS52s for 5.1? It seems like the cost of a BS22 with stands will be almost as much as FS52s

The ideal in any surround sound speaker setup is to use the same speaker in each position. Mixing FS and BS and especially C speakers is always a compromise, though a common one for a variety of reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

The rear and side surround speakers are typically recommended to be placed above ear level.

To quote Dolby's "Surround Sound Speaker Placement", the surround speakers should be "just above ear level".

Between the 31.5 inch tall SP-FS51-LR which I have and the 35.2 inch SP-FS52, Pioneer "increased the speaker height by 3 inches". To raise mine, I spent $7 at a large chain store with concentric red circles for a logo on each of a couple of strong black fabric covered shelves which fit the base perfectly and raise the tweeters to ear level.

1902%2520Bedroom%2520HT%2520-%2520right.jpg

This, or something like it, would probably work perfectly to raise the SP-FS52 tweeters above ear level. As a bonus, you get an easy speaker wire storage space.
post #4313 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post

Hard to place them above ear level without a mounting solution. Any suggestions for a ceiling drop down mount? I have a wall on one side and a half wall on the other side. The halfwall is about as tall as the tower though, which is already at my ear level
As already pointed out, "just" above ear level is fine and isnt really necessary. I wouldnt go higher than 12" or so above with the tweeters. High frequency sounds are much more directional than low frequency sounds. This depends somewhat on how close the speakers are also.
post #4314 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

As already pointed out, "just" above ear level is fine and isnt really necessary. I wouldnt go higher than 12" or so above with the tweeters. High frequency sounds are much more directional than low frequency sounds. This depends somewhat on how close the speakers are also.

At one time, this was the dogma:

-THX recommends side and rear surround placement at 2-3' above ear level
-Dolby recommends an unspecified "just above ear level"
-Roger Dressler (Dolby) used to say 2-3' above ear level
-Pioneer's owners manual states at or above ear level

Has this changed?

Thanks.
post #4315 of 5377
No. It just shows how really critical it is.
There are too many factors to consider to be able to just boil it down and say "this is what it should be". At or about ear level is fine for most applications.This is for surround and wide speakers.
Front heights and back surrounds are supposed to be elevated.
Edited by Bond 007 - 7/15/13 at 9:06am
post #4316 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post

Now I need to figure out where to put Surround speakers in my awkward entertainment area. Anyone running 4 FS52s for 5.1? It seems like the cost of a BS22 with stands will be almost as much as FS52s. But I do love em, wish I had more time to crank it but I usually have to wait for my wife to be gone smile.gif.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

All the tweeters should be ear level except for front heights.
I would highly recommend towers over bookshelf speakers for surrounds if one has the room and can place them properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

As already pointed out, "just" above ear level is fine and isnt really necessary. I wouldnt go higher than 12" or so above with the tweeters. High frequency sounds are much more directional than low frequency sounds. This depends somewhat on how close the speakers are also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

No. It just shows how really critical it is.
There are too many factors to consider to be able to just boil it down and say "this is what it should be". At or about ear level is fine for most applications.This is for surround and wide speakers.
Front heights and back surrounds are supposed to be elevated.

Come again? I only had one cup of coffee. smile.gif

The original question was about rear speakers -- "Shouldn't the rears be ear level?". You responded that all tweeters should be ear-level, except for heights. I submitted that rear and side surround speakers are generally recommended to be placed above ear-level and then posted what I understand to be the going advice. Your opinion seems to contradict this and itself. Can you please clarify?
post #4317 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

I submitted that rear and side surround speakers are generally recommended to be placed above ear-level
You are correct. With L/C/R precise imaging is desired, and to get precise imaging tweeters need to be at ear level. With surrounds a more diffused, indirect sound is preferred, so it's better to have the surrounds well above ear height. I have mine aimed at the ceiling.
post #4318 of 5377
I like it at eat level for all Seven speakers' with diamond tweeters, I would not have it an other way smile.gif
post #4319 of 5377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

You are correct. With L/C/R precise imaging is desired, and to get precise imaging tweeters need to be at ear level. With surrounds a more diffused, indirect sound is preferred, so it's better to have the surrounds well above ear height. I have mine aimed at the ceiling.
To each his own. I listen to a lot of music and prefer that all of my tweeters are placed at ear height except for my back surround and front heights for the reasons of diffusion that you stated. My back surrounds are about 3 ft above and my front heights are at ceiling height (8ft) and I have them angled slightly downward (about 10 degrees).
post #4320 of 5377
Anyone run a pair of BS22s as front height speakers with FS52s? Curious to hear if the front height speakers are worth the extra hassle.
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