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Pioneer's Speaker Genius Hits Low Price Point - Page 150

post #4471 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkiedan View Post

I'm considering picking up four SP-BS21s or SP-BS22s to use for side and rear surround duty ... to be placed within 6" of the wall with heavy drapes in between.

The main problem with rear ported speakers being close to a wall is that the port, like the cone, is a radiator and the strong reflected sound interferes with the directly radiated sound.

If the speakers must be close to and perpendicular to the walls, then you will want to scatter (diffuse) the sound from the wall. The heavy drapes will certainly help with absorption of some frequencies, but look into getting some wall treatments to go immediately behind the speakers. The drapes give you the advantage of not being concerned with the aesthetics of the treatments if you want to absorb and diffuse. Details and recommendations can be found in other threads, including cost-effective D.I.Y. options.
Quote:
would it benefit even more to plug the ports with foam?

This will change the dynamics of the speaker, but is effective in reducing the sound radiated from the port. With proper EQing, which you would do anyway, this may be a viable option.

You don't mention details of your space, what you will use to drive the speakers or your listening preferences, so this all assumes that you'll have plenty of good clean power for the space.
post #4472 of 5337
Walmart has the BS21 for $78 dollars a pair.
post #4473 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I found this graph of the acoustical output of the port:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?232582-Pioneer-SP-BS21-LR-measured-deconstructed-modded


That's really bad. The port output should drop much faster above the tuning frequency. I suspect the reason for this is the rear port placement allows midrange from the rear of the cone to exit through the port. It also might indicate insufficient damping material. In practice since the port is rear-firing a lot of that midrange energy won't wrap back around the cab, but a lot of it will bounce off the wall in back of the speaker. It's probably better than most speakers at this price point, many have no damping, but if they were mine I'd be sure there was at least a full inch of polyester batting covering all of the interior surfaces.
post #4474 of 5337
Thanks for the quick reply. The space is a moderate-sized rectangle with the HDTV and main speakers on the long wall. It's fairly well-damped with heavy carpeting and draperies. The Denon 3313 should drive most reasonable speakers so that's not a concern. I listen primarily to classical, orchestral and jazz music in 2.1 mode, using the main Sierras and an Epik 12" sealed sub. Surround is entirely for movies and a few TV shows.

The price and good reviews of the Pioneers had me thinking I could do this on the really, really cheap but, after reading your response and Bill's post, I'll probably hide in the bushes and wait for some used non-ported small sealed monitors.
post #4475 of 5337
If youre only using the Pioneers for surrounds and will have them turned off when listening to music I doubt you will ever notice the things they have mentioned. Lots of people have wall mounted the 22s and been happy with them. If you can lean them forward a little instead of flush mounting it will help.
post #4476 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I found this graph of the acoustical output of the port:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?232582-Pioneer-SP-BS21-LR-measured-deconstructed-modded


That's really bad. The port output should drop much faster above the tuning frequency.

Yes, I was expecting something more like the red line on this graph:


Quote:
I suspect the reason for this is the rear port placement allows midrange from the rear of the cone to exit through the port. It also might indicate insufficient damping material. In practice since the port is rear-firing a lot of that midrange energy won't wrap back around the cab, but a lot of it will bounce off the wall in back of the speaker. It's probably better than most speakers at this price point, many have no damping, but if they were mine I'd be sure there was at least a full inch of polyester batting covering all of the interior surfaces.

It certainly threw an anvil into anybody's plans for ignoring the radiation from the port!
post #4477 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkiedan View Post

I listen primarily to classical, orchestral and jazz music in 2.1 mode, using the main Sierras and an Epik 12" sealed sub. Surround is entirely for movies and a few TV shows.

Assuming you mean the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower speakers and Epik Legend sub, your listening is probably accustomed to rather more performance than these Pioneer speakers can offer. With the quality of movie and music surround recordings you might want to consider spending a bit more on the surrounds; for example, a set of the Acsend 200SE compact sealed bookshelf speakers would seem well suited for wall mounting and a better match for your front speakers and are dirt cheap compared to the Sierras.

Would you want any less for your classical or jazz SACD collection? I know I enjoy my copy of Anthony Newman and The Graham Ashton Ensemble - Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani on my lesser 7(-1).1 system.
post #4478 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If youre only using the Pioneers for surrounds and will have them turned off when listening to music I doubt you will ever notice the things they have mentioned. Lots of people have wall mounted the 22s and been happy with them. If you can lean them forward a little instead of flush mounting it will help.

Yep, that's what I was getting at originally. I have few CDs in surround sound and I truly have no interest in multi-channel SACDs. I'm an old music purist who came back to stereo (with a sub, that is) a few years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

Assuming you mean the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower speakers and Epik Legend sub, your listening is probably accustomed to rather more performance than these Pioneer speakers can offer. With the quality of movie and music surround recordings you might want to consider spending a bit more on the surrounds; for example, a set of the Acsend 200SE compact sealed bookshelf speakers would seem well suited for wall mounting and a better match for your front speakers and are dirt cheap compared to the Sierras.

Would that I had those Ascend towers. No, Mine are the original Sierra 1s and the sub is an Epik Vanquish, a 12" sealed unit with fantastic, tight bass. Love the front stage! I'd get the HTM200SE but four of those puppies are over $600, sadly, beyond my budget right now. The Pioneers, on sale, can be had for $150 total for four. Who knows? I think I'll have two of them shipped second-day from my favorite etailer and give them a listen. Too many problems and they can always go back.
Quote:
Would you want any less for your classical or jazz SACD collection? I know I enjoy my copy of Anthony Newman and The Graham Ashton Ensemble - Music for Organ, Brass and Timpani on my lesser 7(-1).1 system.


Made me laugh there. No, listening to an orchestral piece in 2.1 with the Sierras is everything I want in my music. All I want from surrounds is movie effects. Might be a gunshot, might be an F14 flying over, might be a guy shouting, "Stop, damn it!"
Edited by arkiedan - 9/10/13 at 1:48pm
post #4479 of 5337
Picked up the 2 Pioneer SP-FS52, Center the Pioneer SP-C22 and the Rears are the Pioneer SP-BS22. So opened the boxes today. All went great except for one of the Tower Speakers, the screws for the base are off by 1/2 inch. I can get one side of the base on with the 2 screws. Now the issue is should I take it back to Best Buy and get a replacement?(The 2 Tower speakers were both made in May 13) The other stores will probably have a different manufacture date. I'm leaning toward keeping the matched pair just to be safe. The Other speakers are fine and have a date of May Oct 12. Give me your thoughts....
post #4480 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodyslide View Post

Picked up the 2 Pioneer SP-FS52, Center the Pioneer SP-C22 and the Rears are the Pioneer SP-BS22. So opened the boxes today. All went great except for one of the Tower Speakers, the screws for the base are off by 1/2 inch. I can get one side of the base on with the 2 screws. Now the issue is should I take it back to Best Buy and get a replacement?(The 2 Tower speakers were both made in May 13) The other stores will probably have a different manufacture date. I'm leaning toward keeping the matched pair just to be safe. The Other speakers are fine and have a date of May Oct 12. Give me your thoughts....

I would of been back from Best Buy already. Go back. Open the box and make sure it isn't damaged.
post #4481 of 5337
Just got back from Best Buy. Took both speakers back and showed them what happened. We swapped the 2 I had with 2 new ones(Date also 5/13). I put on the base plates at the store they aligned with no issues. Now to wait for the 616 to get in. Thanks
Edited by Bodyslide - 9/13/13 at 6:18am
post #4482 of 5337
Ran the Audssey eq stuff, it made my sub goto -13db , center -3. Man it sounds good, I tried to watch the opening of Into Darkness tonight at the THX level and thought my house was going to collapse. Alot I need to learn about this new setup....
post #4483 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodyslide View Post

Ran the Audssey eq stuff, it made my sub goto -13db , center -3. Man it sounds good, I tried to watch the opening of Into Darkness tonight at the THX level and thought my house was going to collapse. Alot I need to learn about this new setup....
My understanding of Audyssey is that you should keep running it until you get the sub volume to +-3 in the AVR. You would have to turn the sub volume up a little at the sub and the rerun Audyssey.
post #4484 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My understanding of Audyssey is that you should keep running it until you get the sub volume to +-3 in the AVR. You would have to turn the sub volume up a little at the sub and the rerun Audyssey.

You have that backwards, I think.

If Aud already has his sub trimmed down to -13, then he wants to turn the sub's volume level down a bit and re-run Audyssey. Also, there is nothing magic about +/- 3. I think the trick is to make sure that none of your trims are at max or minimum level. That said, if you may occasionally feel the need to tweak the sub or center on the fly while watching films (heresy, I know!), then +/- 3 will give you the room to do that without any of your trims running out of authority.

Brian
post #4485 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

You have that backwards, I think.

If Aud already has his sub trimmed down to -13, then he wants to turn the sub's volume level down a bit and re-run Audyssey. Also, there is nothing magic about +/- 3. I think the trick is to make sure that none of your trims are at max or minimum level. That said, if you may occasionally feel the need to tweak the sub or center on the fly while watching films (heresy, I know!), then +/- 3 will give you the room to do that without any of your trims running out of authority.

Brian
+1
post #4486 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodyslide View Post

Ran the Audssey eq stuff, it made my sub goto -13db , center -3. Man it sounds good, I tried to watch the opening of Into Darkness tonight at the THX level and thought my house was going to collapse. Alot I need to learn about this new setup....

They're great sounding aren't they? My only real complaint is that, listening to music in 2.0, the sound falls apart at higher volumes. I haven't tried them with a sub yet, but it would have to help. Still, they are an incredible value and something that I feel comfortable recommending to anyone.
post #4487 of 5337
Pioneer BS41, BS21 and BS22 on sale at Amazon.
post #4488 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrysquire View Post

They're great sounding aren't they? My only real complaint is that, listening to music in 2.0, the sound falls apart at higher volumes. I haven't tried them with a sub yet, but it would have to help. Still, they are an incredible value and something that I feel comfortable recommending to anyone.

i have no doubt in my mind that your avr is the weak link here. You sound like you need and will use every watt of a power amp rated 200+ real watts per channel. You should look into adding a higher output power amp like Emotive or crown is a good starting point. Adding a sub will take most of the load off the lite weight amp your now using, but you won't be happy till you get /add a real power amp,, for 2.0 and 2.1....
post #4489 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

i have no doubt in my mind that your avr is the weak link here. You sound like you need and will use every watt of a power amp rated 200+ real watts per channel. You should look into adding a higher output power amp like Emotive or crown is a good starting point. Adding a sub will take most of the load off the lite weight amp your now using, but you won't be happy till you get /add a real power amp,, for 2.0 and 2.1....
What is he using to drive them now?
post #4490 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What is he using to drive them now?

From a past post, a denon 1913
post #4491 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by countrysquire View Post

They're great sounding aren't they? My only real complaint is that, listening to music in 2.0, the sound falls apart at higher volumes. I haven't tried them with a sub yet, but it would have to help. Still, they are an incredible value and something that I feel comfortable recommending to anyone.
Make sure you have the Denon set to 6 ohm and get you a sub and you should be fine unless you are listening at a ridiculous volume. If youre trying to rattle the house you have the wrong speakers.
post #4492 of 5337
I think that Denon is plenty to drive them and there is no need to switch to 6 ohms.

I use a 1713 and they get plenty if power. They can sound good at pretty high volumes but every speaker has its limits. These are great spekers for the price but they can only do so much. I found that it can sound better by tweaking the tone controls a bit.

Getting a sub improves them big time. I have a svs pb1000 crossed at 80.
post #4493 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What is he using to drive them now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

From a past post, a denon 1913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What is he using to drive them now?

Actually, I likely will be using the Denon AVR-1913 when driving them in my workshop. I was demo'ing them in my main system, which is powered by a pair of Muse Model 175 monoblocks. I think the likely culprit is the cabinet which becomes a little too resonant ant higher SPLs. I agree that they shouldn't be the first choice of someone who wants to regularly listen to Metallica at 110dB, but that could also be said of many very expensive speakers. I do love these little guys.
post #4494 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Pioneer BS41, BS21 and BS22 on sale at Amazon.

Amazing that the first gen AJ speakers keep popping up.

I have done a lengthy comparison of 21's vs. 22's, and preferred the 21's and returned the 22's.

I can't believe I did this, but at $89/pair, free 2 day shipping with Prime, I am going to give the 22's another shot. :-)

BGL
post #4495 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

Amazing that the first gen AJ speakers keep popping up.

I have done a lengthy comparison of 21's vs. 22's, and preferred the 21's and returned the 22's.

I can't believe I did this, but at $89/pair, free 2 day shipping with Prime, I am going to give the 22's another shot. :-)

BGL
lol The change of season may make them sound different.
post #4496 of 5337
So I just made the plunge and bought the SP-BS22-LR from Best Buy for $70, and the SP-C22 for $36 (after gift cards)...... I already have the Polk Audio PSW505 subwoofer for $150 from Newegg. My receiver is the Pioneer Elite VSX-42. I am considering buying the SP-FS52-LR tower speakers from Microcenter for $90 each. Thoughts?? Our family watches lots of sports, some movies, and a decent amount of music. It's a medium size carpeted living room.
post #4497 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post

So I just made the plunge and bought the SP-BS22-LR from Best Buy for $70, and the SP-C22 for $36 (after gift cards)...... I already have the Polk Audio PSW505 subwoofer for $150 from Newegg. My receiver is the Pioneer Elite VSX-42. I am considering buying the SP-FS52-LR tower speakers from Microcenter for $90 each. Thoughts?? Our family watches lots of sports, some movies, and a decent amount of music. It's a medium size carpeted living room.
Good deal. Go for it.
post #4498 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post

I already have the Polk Audio PSW505 subwoofer for $150 from Newegg. ... I am considering buying the SP-FS52-LR tower speakers from Microcenter for $90 each. Thoughts??

$90 is a good price compared to the $129.99 MSRP.

While the PSW505 is better than some other cheap Polk subs, return it to Newegg for a refund and put that $150 toward a good sub. It's worth the investment.

A number of folks have paired these speakers with subs from SVS with results which you can read in this thread and the Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. For reference, each of my two SB-1000s were bought in like new condition through Audiogon for $325.

When you get a decent sub, try around 100Hz for your crossover. This seems to be the sweet spot for the Pioneers.
post #4499 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by AJCxZ0 View Post

$90 is a good price compared to the $129.99 MSRP.

While the PSW505 is better than some other cheap Polk subs, return it to Newegg for a refund and put that $150 toward a good sub. It's worth the investment.

A number of folks have paired these speakers with subs from SVS with results which you can read in this thread and the Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. For reference, each of my two SB-1000s were bought in like new condition through Audiogon for $325.

When you get a decent sub, try around 100Hz for your crossover. This seems to be the sweet spot for the Pioneers.

Thanks for the thoughts. The polk psw505 was purchased a few months ago, so no go on any return on that. This is the sub I will be with for a while.
post #4500 of 5337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrmetros View Post

So I just made the plunge and bought the SP-BS22-LR from Best Buy for $70, and the SP-C22 for $36 (after gift cards)...... I already have the Polk Audio PSW505 subwoofer for $150 from Newegg. My receiver is the Pioneer Elite VSX-42. I am considering buying the SP-FS52-LR tower speakers from Microcenter for $90 each. Thoughts?? Our family watches lots of sports, some movies, and a decent amount of music. It's a medium size carpeted living room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Good deal. Go for it.

I agree. That's an AWESOME setup for what you will have spent. biggrin.gif
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