Tweeter Designs

I've come to like using multiple tiny dome tweeters in a CBT array. My center speaker uses 132 3/4" Tang Band tweeters. It's about the best top end I've ever heard.

mk

You have to be specific about your goals, boundaries and constraints. There are choices out there for many different applications.

Every solution will have its own compromise.

It ain't piezo's.

not a fan of piezo's

Do electrostats fall into your "panel" catergory? If so, consider me chimed in.

If you can live with the high ohm load and low sensitivity... In other words if you are content feeding them enough wattage to run a small 3rd world country, they are amazing and incredibly accurate.

Hard to qualify it as a "tweeter" though as mine handle everything above 250hz.

Domes sound good to most of us. There is a difference between metal and soft domes.

Something that controls directivity will allow you to eq much better than a transducer that splashes sound all over the place. And with that in mind room treatments are probably just as, if not more, important than the driver itself.

Having said that, I also think the recording is # 1. Sometimes I think I could do better than the Gauss 1502 HF horn/CD I have, but then I put on a good recording and I change my mind.

But to answer you question, I'd check out ribbons (if you listen below reference) and some *good* horns if you like it loud and clear. Line arrays like Montekay's would be killer too I'm sure!

Just like everything else in audio, there are good and bad waveguided compression, planars, ribbons, domes, and everything else in between. Making a generalization for any of them is misguided.

I had this problem years back when I was forced to give up my LaScala's due to space reasons. That and knowing that if I moved into an apartment with those and the amp I had at the time I might as well not unapck as there would be an eviction notice on the door the next day.

Nothing conventional I listened to met the criteria which I had become accustomed to with the Klipsch horns (not Klipschorn, 2 words). I found myself looking to ribbons & electrostats. I finally settled on the electrostats as I felt they met my standards and in some ways even excelled in others. I was ok with the obvious loss of pure Db as long as I did not sacrifice my sould quality. Fast forward several years and I buy a house and think... damn, I wish I had my Klipsch so I could peel the paint off the walls now.
Luckily I have found that with the right power (alot), the right room treatments, etc. My electrostats will get plenty loud for my tastes when needed and still remain amazingly clear and accurate.

As far as the noise complaints. It has taken me (and a few neighbors) 15 years to weed out the undesireable neighbors. No one is a problem now. I got worried a few years back when they built 2 new $800,000 houses next to me, but I learned the new occupants right quick like what things were like. An Ibanez, 300w head, and half-stack in the garage for a while and suddenly the HT setup isn't so bad.

Call me crazy, but that's a generalization!

Ron

How do the alternatives to the domes fare when subjected to something like the objective/subjective evaluations that Sean Olive has done with respect to speaker accuracy? As to domes being inexpensive compared to the other alternatives, that depends on the alternatives. For example, a recent new commercial venture, GoldenEar, is using what is likely a very inexpensive, Chinese implementation of a Heil-type folded ribbon tweeter. Are such tweeters detailed if you will because they constrain vertical radiation patterns or is it because their response is ragged and varies with output level?

Electrostats do have much more distortion when turned up. Any bass from 80Hz to 500Hz has its life sucked out of it by an Electrostat design.

I have compared them side by side with horn designs. It was not even a fair fight when it came to the dynamics needed in movies. At average listening levels music was impressive through them but again any dynamics or when music was cranked I could hear the distortion as clean as day.

Im not sure I really agree with this domes have horrible off axis response if they are not in a waveguide. Even at 30 degrees its pretty far down and we do not get much reflected response above even sometimes 8KHz so that is not as wide as people think.

Horns have a very accurate response off axis even up and past 60degrees.

If you ever had two speakers one horn, one dome you would know that the soundstage on the horn is HUGE, you can walk side to side and not hear any differences in the sound. With a dome you can easily hear the differences as you move off axis. That tells me the dome does not have wide dispersion at all.

Again, it depends on the application and perference. People love the "shimmer" of the dome. They are seldom use to the very clean and very low distortion of a ribbon tweeter.

People also like the warm sound of the dome. "Warm" meaning relative to ribbons and CDs the Dome is a warmer sound but the real reason for this is because the off axis response drops off like a rock on the top, that bad off axis response reflects back into the listening area.

Its about choice/experience and compromises and its hard for people to explore all these options and budget, room compromises make the choices very narrow.

Ask anyone some expert speaker builders about OB designs and they will say they are superior for crictical music listening. If they are superior then why are they not built and sold by the popular audio companies??

That's where we get into "what is a natural soundstage?".

Of course it is your intention since you keep doing it.

Do you have a cost vs performance analysis?

Good question, especially since Sean Olive works for Harman and has access to all the tweeter technologies.

Their top JBL line for theater uses horns, while their top Revel line uses domes.

So, let me get this right Penn. You've got two speakers, both horns, and you walk from side to side and don't hear a difference? What are you listening to? Mono?

Im testing a speaker design.....you can not use stereo speakers to do this. Just like we do not measure two speakers together. Its pointless.

You do not hear a fluctuation in the response...the response keeps its uniformity as you move off axis.

Its easy to hear the drop off with domes, with my ribbons its easy to hear the vertical drop off if I stand and sit. That does not happen with Horns.

Good question, A cymbal is going to sound the same @ 30 deg as it does on axis in a live performance, is it not?? So the natural soundstage has uniform response on and off axis.

Its all about the polar response. I know most of you like domes but if you realize how bad the polar response is then you will start realize the inacurracies with those designs.

How many hours have people honestly given themselves when listening to accurate response designs?? Probably not a lot, they are use to Domes and that is all the want, most even think domes are accurate but they are not.

That is only one instrument in free-air. What about other instruments, or a voice? Guitars, horns, etc. do not have the same sound off-axis...and neither does a voice. Now add an actual stage.

Now look at someone like Dennis Murphy, who actually plays in an orchestra, and the tweeter designs he uses.