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The Ultimate 3D projection system: A Practical Discussion Thread - Page 43

post #1261 of 2268
I am glad to hear all the good results from the filter set. im not too supprised as ive seen it on several instalations and working as good as everyone has said.
we are going to start listing a larger kit. a larger filter and 10 pairs of glasses.

The filter is 75mmx45mm usable aperture is 73x43mm and the mount is 95x60mm with 3mm holes in the corners spaced 50mm apart on the edge and 86mm apart along the top

here is what it looks like. i think the kit will be listed at 850$ us. i will see though.
LL
post #1262 of 2268
If you use the Omega kit with dual projectors that don't have lens shift, how do you line them up?

Do you tilt them both, or just one?
In either case, is keystone correction necessary?
post #1263 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoore2 View Post

If you use the Omega kit with dual projectors that don't have lens shift, how do you line them up?

Do you tilt them both, or just one?
In either case, is keystone correction necessary?

I would tilt one and try to use as little keystone as possible
post #1264 of 2268
Motorman, can you provide the filters as bare glass without the mounting border? I'd like to put the filters inside the projectors. In a short throw situation, there may be problems putting them on the outside.

Also, how confident are you that you're not violating Infitec's patents (7,001,021, etc.)?
post #1265 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by visbert View Post

Motorman, can you provide the filters as bare glass without the mounting border? I'd like to put the filters inside the projectors. In a short throw situation, there may be problems putting them on the outside.

Also, how confident are you that you're not violating Infitec's patents (7,001,021, etc.)?

Hi, yes i can sell them unmounted, just request no mount from the ebay seller. they will take the heat inside easy.
no violation. i personally spent 6 months with patent lawyers over two years ago on this exact topic. would never had gotten panavision to brand and promote it without that issue cleared. it dose not work the same as infitec, it is not splitting rgb into 2 bands each. that is their concept. patents are very funny, you cant patent use of a set of wavelegnths.
post #1266 of 2268
Hello Motorman45,
I'm very interested in the idea of a single passive projector and I understand you all are working on a single dlp projector set up that will be passive. Have you guys tested this system yet? Care to share any results? how is the brightness effected while watching 2D and 3D? I know there is a sub $3000 thread were people might be really interested (heck I am). Just curious as to we're you are in testing and selling phases. It sounds like you guys have a great system!
post #1267 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

Hi, yes i can sell them unmounted, just request no mount from the ebay seller. they will take the heat inside easy.
no violation. i personally spent 6 months with patent lawyers over two years ago on this exact topic. would never had gotten panavision to brand and promote it without that issue cleared. it dose not work the same as infitec, it is not splitting rgb into 2 bands each. that is their concept. patents are very funny, you cant patent use of a set of wavelegnths.

Can you also provide custom size filters? I'm sure you're better at cutting glass than I am. What's the size of the whole sheet that you're cutting the filters from?
post #1268 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by visbert View Post

Can you also provide custom size filters? I'm sure you're better at cutting glass than I am. What's the size of the whole sheet that you're cutting the filters from?

yes we are very good at cutting glass. the cost can only go down so much with size but i bet a 25mm round part would fit fine inside a projector. or a 25mm square for that matter. the area of the coated plate that is good varies some so the size i can cut depends on several things, but i could make a 120mm sqare but it will be costly.
post #1269 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Hello Motorman45,
I'm very interested in the idea of a single passive projector and I understand you all are working on a single dlp projector set up that will be passive. Have you guys tested this system yet? Care to share any results? how is the brightness effected while watching 2D and 3D? I know there is a sub $3000 thread were people might be really interested (heck I am). Just curious as to we're you are in testing and selling phases. It sounds like you guys have a great system!

im not sure we have a single projector solusion yet. we have talked about ideas for this but do not have anything yet. a wheel that could be placed in front of a projector will be costly and we are looking into it. you would not have the advantage of brightness in a system like this that you do in a dual stack.
post #1270 of 2268
Do you have any restrictions on commercial use of the filters and glasses? I assume you have some exclusive agreement with Panavision for cinema, but what about other domains?
post #1271 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by akhaksho View Post

Do you have any restrictions on commercial use of the filters and glasses? I assume you have some exclusive agreement with Panavision for cinema, but what about other domains?

we do have an agreement. we can sell to individuals for home use at this point. that is why its in a kit form at this point but there are some other areas we can work with. it nice to get people with a real interest in home theater like you all here to be able to have the optics and see high quality 3D
post #1272 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

we do have an agreement. we can sell to individuals for home use at this point. that is why its in a kit form at this point but there are some other areas we can work with. it nice to get people with a real interest in home theater like you all here to be able to have the optics and see high quality 3D

My home town has a festival each year called Come-See-Me, I've thought about maybe opening a sort of arcade in the future and having a tent setup there to gauge interest, what are the restrictions on this and using the filters for a small business like a bar?
post #1273 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

we do have an agreement. we can sell to individuals for home use at this point. that is why its in a kit form at this point but there are some other areas we can work with. it nice to get people with a real interest in home theater like you all here to be able to have the optics and see high quality 3D

Who could I contact at Omega Optical about non-home use and non-cinema applications for your filters? PM me if this isn't the sort of thing you'd want to put on the forum. Thanks.

Albert
post #1274 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

My home town has a festival each year called Come-See-Me, I've thought about maybe opening a sort of arcade in the future and having a tent setup there to gauge interest, what are the restrictions on this and using the filters for a small business like a bar?

the limitation we have for now is to what is called non-theatrical viewing. basically people who are not paying to see a film. i know its funny in some ways as someone is alway "paying " something to use the optics but thats where we are right now.
i currently run a public viewing jsut like you were thinking to guage interest. no charge to see it and i run it once a month on the system i show in the youtube video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziuTZQx7dg

its fun to show people what really good 3D looks like. my inexpensive rig looks far better than our local theater. they have a master image setup. as far as a bar showing something thats a hard call even though patrons are not actually paying to view, they are paying to drink lol.. i would have to talk to the top guy about that. ultimately we have no control of how the system us used.
post #1275 of 2268
if any of you are in LA there is a very good install of this system as the panavision 3D at Disney anaheim ca in one of the multiplexes on the edge of Disney land park. i wateched tron there on my system and it looked fantastic. and that was not the latest version of the optics that were selling to you guys
post #1276 of 2268
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

I am glad to hear all the good results from the filter set. im not too supprised as ive seen it on several instalations and working as good as everyone has said.
we are going to start listing a larger kit. a larger filter and 10 pairs of glasses.

The filter is 75mmx45mm usable aperture is 73x43mm and the mount is 95x60mm with 3mm holes in the corners spaced 50mm apart on the edge and 86mm apart along the top

here is what it looks like. i think the kit will be listed at 850$ us. i will see though.

How soon will you start shipping this?
post #1277 of 2268
These initial results of the omega kit sound promising. I might be tempted to do the switch sometime this summer.
I have just a few questions :
Can you show a crosstalk test picture using the DDD alignment test pattern ? http://www.mediafire.com/i/?g6202hla505p65r

If you use the lens shift, are there any colour shifts across the picture ? Do you need to angle the filters to correct for colour shifts ?

If the room isn't completely dark (my room has bright white walls) or if you have a small light source next to you lighting up your seat (i sometimes have a led light helping me see my keyboard on my knees), are there any parasite reflections showing in the glasses ?
post #1278 of 2268
I can tell you there is no Ghosting that is apparent also look at these post from Motorman to show the test you want.

I did all these test and there spot of ghosting.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21717075

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21717188

here is also some tests i did.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21759014
post #1279 of 2268
I watched the full Yogi Bear movie last night, and did not notice any ghosting during the entire movie.
post #1280 of 2268
Just did some more testing, and this setup is really impressing.

you guys will be very pleased
post #1281 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

if any of you are in LA there is a very good install of this system as the panavision 3D at Disney anaheim ca in one of the multiplexes on the edge of Disney land park. i wateched tron there on my system and it looked fantastic. and that was not the latest version of the optics that were selling to you guys

Motorman. You mentioned on your YouTube description video this would also be suitable for 3d gaming. Are there restrictions around what type of setup that can be used. It's a while ago now I looked at the Dolby system but I vaguely remember the reason that setup wouldn't work with 3d gaming was the need to have colour processing of the signal prior to sending out to the projectors (as per jack bauer's AVIsynth's script http://jptheking.free.fr/3d/Dolby_calibration_kit.doc). Do the omega filters not need this pre processing?
post #1282 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

How soon will you start shipping this?

the larger kit its listed now as well as a pack of 6 glasses for 100$ for extras if needed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Depth-Defini...item484479ee3b

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Depth-Defini...item231af0293f

we will ship these starting next week
post #1283 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

These initial results of the omega kit sound promising. I might be tempted to do the switch sometime this summer.
I have just a few questions :
Can you show a crosstalk test picture using the DDD alignment test pattern ? http://www.mediafire.com/i/?g6202hla505p65r

If you use the lens shift, are there any colour shifts across the picture ? Do you need to angle the filters to correct for colour shifts ?

If the room isn't completely dark (my room has bright white walls) or if you have a small light source next to you lighting up your seat (i sometimes have a led light helping me see my keyboard on my knees), are there any parasite reflections showing in the glasses ?

i posted crosstalk photos using that test pattern in this post back a little. i can repost if needed and have some more as well.
lens shift should not create issues that i can think of. a slight angle of the filter helps back reflection back into the projector but not for than 5 deg or so or you will create band shift in the filters. color uniformity should be fine, best is to have the filters between the arc lamp and the homogonizer/integrator.
too muxh light behind you or right above you can make for reflections in the eye wear but it depens on the person and the lighting. some few have complained about it.
post #1284 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

I can tell you there is no Ghosting that is apparent also look at these post from Motorman to show the test you want.

I did all these test and there spot of ghosting.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post21717075

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21717188

here is also some tests i did.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post21759014

post #1285 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by yunti View Post

Motorman. You mentioned on your YouTube description video this would also be suitable for 3d gaming. Are there restrictions around what type of setup that can be used. It's a while ago now I looked at the Dolby system but I vaguely remember the reason that setup wouldn't work with 3d gaming was the need to have colour processing of the signal prior to sending out to the projectors (as per jack bauer's AVIsynth's script http://jptheking.free.fr/3d/Dolby_calibration_kit.doc). Do the omega filters not need this pre processing?

You dont need to use any color processing with our system the way the dolby system dose. I have played some PC based game on my dual projection setup with our filters and it looks great. i have not tried to use a PS3 yet as i dont have a demultiplxer for HDMI but i think that would work well.
post #1286 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

You dont need to use any color processing with our system the way the dolby system dose. I have played some PC based game on my dual projection setup with our filters and it looks great. i have not tried to use a PS3 yet as i dont have a demultiplxer for HDMI but i think that would work well.

While it needs much less than Dolby I have to say that some correction will still go a long way, the Right filter cuts more light than the Left and both cause very small changes to the hues of each projector. Again, WAY better than Dolby lens as filters, and some people may be fine with no correction.
post #1287 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post

While it needs much less than Dolby I have to say that some correction will still go a long way, the Right filter cuts more light than the Left and both cause very small changes to the hues of each projector. Again, WAY better than Dolby lens as filters, and some people may be fine with no correction.

I agree some adjusments to the color do make them a better match. it somewhat depends on the output of the projectors used. the measured energy balance of the filters on the infocus im using is nearly perfect despite the lack of red in these units and a slight l-r color diff, not very well seen with both eyes open though.
the dolby needs a different kind of correction that is performed on the fly so to speak with a server they supply in cinema systems, not just an adjustment of the color balance that is fixed or in a LUT ( look up table ) my filters on a similar server would not only perform even better than the dolby they have even more efficiency as your not cutting energy of a color to balance things. the filters are made for simplicity of function but with minimal tweaking it looks perfect. installed in a film projector they work amazing as well. we used a split lens and over under 2 perf film.
post #1288 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post


You dont need to use any color processing with our system the way the dolby system dose. I have played some PC based game on my dual projection setup with our filters and it looks great. i have not tried to use a PS3 yet as i dont have a demultiplxer for HDMI but i think that would work well.

Wow I didn't expect that response. That is seriously good news. Will have to check what size filters I need. Thanks.

Anyone need some spare Dolby glasses? I have about 6 sets (2 glass). (I don't expect these will be very popular now. )

One thing on the Dolby glasses that was very poor was the amount of reflection if there was any ambient light. Do your glasses suffer the same or do you have an anti-reflective coating? If not would you consider bringing some out?
post #1289 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcguire525 View Post


While it needs much less than Dolby I have to say that some correction will still go a long way, the Right filter cuts more light than the Left and both cause very small changes to the hues of each projector. Again, WAY better than Dolby lens as filters, and some people may be fine with no correction.

Could this be done with CMS in the projector? Or does it have to be done in the signal itself? (realise from your comment motorman that this step isn't necessarily needed but would give some slight improvement)

Also what is the efficiency of the omega setup (inc glasses and filters)? As a comparison how does this compare to Dolby?
post #1290 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by yunti View Post

Could this be done with CMS in the projector? Or does it have to be done in the signal itself? (realise from your comment motorman that this step isn't necessarily needed but would give some slight improvement)

Also what is the efficiency of the omega setup (inc glasses and filters)? As a comparison how does this compare to Dolby?

Yes using the CMS in the projector with the filters in place is the way to do it. it dose not need the signal altered.

One issue all dielectric filters can suffer from is back reflection. this type of filter reflects what it dose not pass. the real key with this type of system is the eyewear frame. the geometry of the lenses relative to the eye and the amount of shrouding the frame offers in the right places.
anti reflection coating cannot reduce the reflection from a dielectric filter coating as it is the nature of these to reflect in their filtering and an anti reflection coating only reduces the reflection of a glass to air surface by 2-3%. un coated glass has ~3.5% surface reflection per surface and if there is a filter coating on one side it is its own AR of sorts and cannot be anti reflected further in its pass band area.

our frames are not perfect but they were also made for mass production. they do offer better dtray light blockage than the dolby frame but i actually like their frame for comfort. you can get our lens to fit in that frame with a little glass mod.
as far as efficiency in the cinema systems dolby is 11-12% and ours has been 18-20% efficient. realD is 16% for the Z system and 28% for the XL but those are polorization systems needing a silver screen also.
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