The Ultimate 3D projection system: A Practical Discussion Thread - Page 54

it could only be one of two things to separate the eyes images. polorizers or filters. anaglyph is a filter technology, infitech and omega 3D systems have their roots in anaglyph in some ways in that they are chromatic separation. the only other method is shutter glasses but they state continuous L/R projection so thats ruled out.
i could make a dichroic filter system custon to fit what RED is doing if they would get back to me. i have the machines to make the coated optics

The thing with lasers is that as far as I know they tend to work at a single frequency. Using the Omega system would mean having different frequencies for the left and right eye, which imply a separate set of RGB lasers for each eye.

Unless there is something new I wouldn't know about ? (have we made lasers with a spectrum output yet ?)

You are right most lasers work a a single line of spectrum. you would need ten lines to match what were doing. not practical really, but there are ways of getting multiple lines out of some laser setups. there are tunable lasers and some gain mediums that extend the bands. all kinds of ways to make a wider spectrum.
diode lasers are also a possiblity with being tunable and packing many bands.
i wasnt thinking of the current offering so much as just the idea of using a dochroic as opposed to polorizers. could be with dolby you would need 6 lines but one would still have the color issues their system has.
also if the laser is exciting a phosphore to create the source then all these things would work.

Guess it is polarized Motorman I think this is you best chance to contact other companies and get them to use your filters to compete with RED

I came to post about the same thing today, after reading this on Endgadget, but they don't tell whether it's polarized or not -- http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/16/r...aser-hands-on/

Retrofit anyone? $10k for a consumer model is amazing considering the long list of bleeding edge technology in this box. If we could find a way to swap the polarizers for Omega filters inside then it's a dream come true (now how do I save up this much $$$ for a single purchase, lol).

Yes i would love to make a competitive system. ive been designing on paper ( or CAD really ) a high power LED engine that would emulate xenon and have plenty of lumens, dual internal imagers for a single passive unit. if i had funds and some help i know i could build something. im not a fan of lasers, ive worked with them for a couple of decades and new LED's are going to be competitive. you can easily get 5k lumens before the imager.

Yes but far less issues... with lamps, one needs reasonably wide filters to pass enough light; with lasers, very narrow filters are sufficient and they could be placed closer (as much close as filter characteristic can be made steep) - therefore resulting in both more saturated colors, and needing even less color correction.

Ok motorman, lets say RED is using lcos similar to HDI3D, since they are using external laser engines would it be possible to somehow position your filters in this prism and make it work with a certain type of laser?

Maybe. it depends on the source spectrum to some degree. if it is an external laser then it seems they are making a full spectrum or sorts out of the lasers as opposed to selectively switching between colors in timing with image switching the way a color wheel would work in a DLP or like the way LED systems cycle between RGB sources.
if the output of the lasers is somehow broad enough to have spectral output over the ten bands omega 3D uses then it could work. but it looks like it could be one image engine if its like the prism you show here. then if the filter was in the cube assembly it would only be one eye.
one other way ive seen this done is to use a beam slpiter of sorts that takes half the image pane of the LCoS and sends it thru one half to a lens and the other half to another lens, ala sony 4k dual lens. then the two filters are out front of a single light engine and making a 2k 3D image from the 4k element. the content is then displayed on the chip level as over/under but combines on the screen as one 3D image. this setup is not too hard and its just a lens and no mods to the internals of he projector.

with a setup like the external split lens you wouldnt need a demux box, just over/under source or if the lens split it sideways then side by side native. you do lose some of the image pane but a decent idea

has anyone here tried or have the LG CF 3D ? twin light engine passive 3D now that one could have another filter set placed where the polorizers are i think easy.

I think most HT people were turned off by reviews saying that the contrast was awful. I hope someone like LG ends up working with you to make an amazing 3D projector, I hoped RED was going to be perfection but polarization is a big turnoff.

The cumbersome part is to have to remove them for 2D. May have to add a motorized sliding "in-out" system.

i thought the CF3D had a slide or motorized filter mover? if they are fixed that would not be good.

I can't believe they chose polarization. I wonder if someone at RED would be willing to do some R&D to build modules that would make it work with other filters? The projector is designed to be modular, so maybe they could assemble laser modules that would give the right spectral output for the Omega filters. Anyways it's way out of my price range, and a big part of the allure of dual projector for me is buying the components one at a time and getting some use out of them individually. I just hope the release of that projector has shaken up the industry enough to speed up development and lower prices on other products we haven't seen yet.

I know that has probably been discussed but look how long this thread is ok.
My question is this: How do I tell if linear 3d glasses (like imax) are 0/90 or 35/145 orientation and which is better?
Also, any recommendations as far as were to buy the filters?
Still just researching,

I bet they chose polorization becuase they are connected to Oakley that makes high end polarizing glasses. if the laser source is just RGB lines with little spectral width per color then polarizers is the only 3D it will work with.
i know there are other new products possible like a true passive 3D projector that has great home theater appeal and is in the 2-5k price range depending on exact specs. also built in demux and higher frame rates or 4k even.. who wants to develop something ?

At the moment I consider 4K as completely overkill for the home.
We don't have the technology to push or generate content at such a resolution cheaply enough for consumers. We already struggle to reach 1080p60, forget 4K for now.
If you want to develop the ideal projector, I think you goal should be 1080p60, just have a look at all the Nvidia 3D vision fans waiting desperately for a projector capable of matching their monitors.

By the way, how is progress on the LCD/LCoS filters going ?

I agree 4k for consumers is a bit much and further down the road. 1080p 60hz would be far better of a goal. it dose not seem like much standing in the way of a projector supporting this.
on the LCoS / LCD omega filters, they are made and we cut and processed them today. we are getting packages ready to ship over the next coupld of days.
i also have been testing them. i found i can emulate other projector spectrums with the vast array of filters we have by putting the right notch filter in front of my DLP 1080p projector. its not a perfect match for the DILA/LCoS and 3LCD units but the LCD version filters do show the color points movement intended to make them closer to D65 as opposed to the screen hues ive seen from feedback. it good to say my color calculation software where i can simulate entire optical systems and coatings matches the tests.
i wish i had a JVC, an Epson and a Sony to test on. well actually i have tested this approach on a 3 chip SXRD 4k system and it worked very well.
I have to say having tested my 3d on 4k, 2k and film all on a 24' screen back to back the 4k looks amazing but the 2k was also great. film 3D with these filters was also very impressive. i would be more than happy with 2k.

I would love to see a dual light engine LCoS with Luminus Phlatlight LEDs, internal Omega filters and HDMI 1.4a. Include 1080p60 Nvidia 3D vision and 1080p SBS support (non-spec, but popular). There's no consumer content for 4k anyways, who needs it right now? I think a build like that could be very competitive at around $5000. The LG price is just inflated because it's got nothing to compete against.

3 DLP would be nice, but it costs too much. Do you need color wheels when you have a colored LED light source? If you don't DLP would actually be great. 2x color wheels seems problematic though... either way, lamps are on their way out, a new product needs to be forward thinking.

For those interested the Teranex 2D-3D converter has dropped in price all the way to $4000

i like the ideas. i do prefer DLP, even single chip, as its efficiency with light can be so much higher. with newer 4x and 6x wheels from what i have read the RBE is not so much of an issue. now a dual image system / single lens with a high output LED source would be good and cost effective. it would be no issue to have twin light sourcs if it was LED. omega 3D filters that slide in via motor drive and a RGB-CY-clear color wheel would make very good color and luminous performance.

Try calling BlackMagic and get something going, they don't seem to mind taking on RED and they are offering some great products that are priced well. They just released that new 2.5K camera for 3K and as I mentioned above they took the price of the Teranex 3D box down to $4000 when it was more than $40,000 just a few months ago.

It won't get much hype at this price point -- not the markup it once had. If it is as good as stated here on this forum then it is now a bargain.

I will. They have some very nice products . Maybe they would be interested in true cutting edge tech. This thread is full of what would be ideal tech.

I read that too. Unfortunately, the HD33 I had in my home for 22 hours gave me the worst headaches and RBE that I have ever seen.

that is too bad you had isues with the HD33. ive got an HD20 ive been testing with and waiting for a second so i can setup a passive dual stack with my filters but i havent seen the RBE ive heard about. is it specific media that shows this more ? i would like to understand and test this somehow. maybe there is a test reel that would highlight the effect so it can be compared ? any ideas.

Obviously it doesn't affect everyone equally. You mau just have won the genetic lottery and can't see it.

If you can't/don't see it, you shouldn't try. It's possible that once you go looking for it, you won't be able to unnotice it.

That being said, Beware: here be dragons:

The PS3 that often puts a white "Play" triangle in the lower left corner when it's loading a DVD/BD. The rest of the screen is black. I could see extreme RBE all over the place when that was up. Also if I brought up the menu (white text) I could see RBE pretty bad.

Other than that, chrome spaceships (X-Wings) that briskly fly from one side of the screen to the other are good sources for RBE. The combination of bright colours on a dark background and tracking your eyes from one side of the screen to the other is usually a good recipe.

The other thing you can do is stare straight at the screen and quickly blink. You wouldn't normally do this during normal viewing, but it's what I see anytime I do blink during a movie, which happens at least twice.

Get BlackMagic to build the Omega passive projector and include the upscaling and 2D-3D conversion from the Teranex!!

I think we should all email them encouraging them to build this, I just want something similar to two JVC's built into one box with a high lumen LED light source.

-LCOS panels (or anything that will give us great contrast)
-LED or Laser light source (seems like LED would be best for Omega)
-Simultaneous L/R 3D using Omega filters
-CFI for each L/R image at 120hz
-Compatible with A-Lens for scope 3D movies