Quote:
Originally Posted by
curtishd 
Can we get a roll call with your Projectors, screen type and size and which filter your using?
I see it's been a while since this was asked, but I thought I'd post my set up, since there were so few responses.. Also, I've barely touched my projector set up in months (I've maybe watched 10 hours total (2D AND 3D) since December-ish..), due to no time, so I haven't been keeping up with any kind of 3D advances..
Just yesterday I randomly read a thing about Omega 3D's filters and got reeeeally curious, so among other things, I read the last 30 or so pages of this thread..
Anyway, my current set up:
Projectors: 2x Sanyo PLV-Z5 in ECO mode only.. Yup.. they're anything but light cannons. (I already had 1 of them, and I picked up a second one for extremely cheap, because it needed a lamp..). Soo, I bought 2 brand new lamps (mine was at 1800 hours) to get them both running "new-ish".
Screen type: Da-Lite HighPower (model B pull down...) (I bought it spring of 2011.. it's supposedly 2.4 gain..)
Screen size: 106" 16:9 diagonal
filters: Dolby 3D .. No experience with anything else. I investigated silver-screen materials and threw that idea out pretty quick, especially with my "weak" Z5's. I use a pair of (glass) lenses from some Dolby 3D glasses as the actual filters.. I didn't bother getting the expensive filters.
This set up is in the living room.. White ceiling, off white carpet, cream colored walls, though the projector shoots across the short width of the room, so the side walls are like 8 feet out from either side of the screen, so they don't cause problems with stray light. Day-time viewing is pretty much impossible for me, due to windows everywhere. Night-time viewing with some lights is doable, but night-time viewing with all the lights off is spectacular. I blame the HighPower screen - it makes everything explooode in brightness. It rocks. I don't think I could imagine 3D without that brilliance.
Anyway, how I use 3D: I exclusively watch 3D Blu-ray movies using Stereoscopic Player on an HTPC. I don't do computer gaming these days, and haven't on the PC in years, so I have no 3D gaming experience. I DO use an HTPC, though, to run my system, since the 3D-xl wasn't really available in the US yet when I set this up.. And now, since I barely use it, I'm not really interested in buying 2x 3D-xl's, just to get some 3D gaming through my PS3.. Also, my concern at the time was dealing with Dolby color correction so I figured that I'd need a PC to handle it.. It turns out, with a bunch of tweaking in the Z5's, I got the color correction about as good as I needed to, though I have since added a bittt of color adjustment in the display drivers, which helps a bit more.
So, my HTPC.. It's an Intel i5, and I just use the integrated graphics, which outputs to 2 displays at once. I've *never* had any sync problems, but again, I'm not doing gaming, so don't know if that would change anything. I also have an AMD Radeon 4550 (I think that's the model..), which was the cheapest HDMI-out card I could find (cost me about $15 after a rebate..), and it also uses the lowest power of any add-on graphics card, and it's also silent (no fan..). These both were very important to me and the price was a bonus.. I use that to output HDMI audio to my receiver, since Intel's graphics drivers support only 2 devices at once.. So I couldn't do dual projectors AND hi-def audio without an extra graphics (or audio) card.. But HDMI audio cards were pretty much $100+ dollars, haha.. pointless, when $15 did the same thing..
I've had this set going for a bit over 1 year, and really, it's pretty awesome. The most annoying thing is dealing with putting my blu-ray discs on the computer and then using Stereoscopic Player. Having a box that just demuxes the left/right from a player would make things a whole lot easier. I have contemplated the 3D-xl many many times (since color correction is good enough in the projectors), but haven't been able to justify them, due to my lack of play-time / projector usage the last bajillion months.. The other annoying thing, for me, is going between 3D and 2D viewing.. I went into the "secret menu" to change some color (due to the extreme Dolby color shift..) on the Z5, so whenever I go back to 2D, I need to do that again, to get my normal colors back.. It really only takes like 2 minutes tops, but it's more than zero-effort..
The potential of the Omega filters definitely has me interested in checking them out, if I get a chance. However, I'd say right now, my Dolby set up color-wise looks fairly similar (I'll say it's 85%) to BlackShark's Omega set up, so I wonder, with a non-xenon bulb, if it's just not going to get better. The main 2 "problem" colors for me are a red-orange and a blue-purple.. If you look at BlackShark's picture (post 1727, page 58) of CLUE (Jeff Bridges digital self in TRON Legacy), the red/orange stripe on his suit.. I have the same issue. It's very orange-yellow on one projector, and very red on the other projector. As others have mentioned, you get a bit of a "shimmering", since the colors are quite off, but your brain is still trying to combine them. Interestingly, it's a color that's generally only in movies as a GLOWY color, anyway, so it's more weird than an actual problem.. Candle light, sunsets, glowy effects.. (I think I've seen a dress with it before, and it was distracting.) The other color is a blue, and it's best seen in Avatar.. The opening scene when Jake (main character) wakes up from cryo-sleep. If I close one eye, his face looks purple, and if I close the other eye, his face looks more of a blue-green.. Their color intensity and brightness are pretty close, though, so the combined-in-the-brain color actually is pretty decent.
However, the Omega white-balance seems WAY better than Dolby, and even BlackShark's colors look significantly closer between left and right, which makes me believe it's probably a whooole heck of a lot easier to color balance than the Dolby.. But the brain really does amazing things, and you'd never notice most of the time. As others have said, color brightness is more of the issue that causes eye problems. If I get a chance, I'll take some pictures.
My thoughts / experiences:
Projectors: My PLV-Z5's are, well, underwhelming, you'd think, haha.. But they hold up pretty well with the HighPower screen. Due to the HighPower screen, the projectors need to be near-the-viewers.. Mine aren't in the best place, but they're pretty close. They are 2 feet above my head (stacked one above the other), when I'm sitting on the couch.. So noise is a concern.. Especially since there are 2 of them. I run them ONLY in ECO mode.. They have a veerrrrrry tiny hum in eco mode, but are louder than I can stand in non-eco mode.. The noise (in non-eco mode) mostly disappears while watching stuff, but I still don't like it. Supposedly 22 db eco, and 27 or 29 db in full.. The only other modern-ish projector I have experience with is a Benq W6000, which I owned with my old roommates. That one is mind-blowingly better 2D picture wise and brightness wise, but louder. I don't think I'd be able to handle 2 of those 2 feet above my head.
If I were to upgrade projectors today, previously I would have told you something like the Epson 8350.. But now maybe I need to pay attention to xenon bulbs, hmm... All I know is decent color correction is important and same with placement flexibility, if you're using something like a HighPower screen. And I surely shouldn't be spending $2K+ on each projector, so nothing super-fancy for me. Also, noise is a big factor for me.
However... people mentioning CFI (creative frame interpolation) as something you should want for 3D know what they're talking about! Think of Avatar, when Jake is getting chased by the big cat... Chunks of wood and leaves flying everywhere.. When that stuff goes by fast, it's verrry hard on the eyes to follow, and you kind of lose the 3D or it just doesn't look right.. if you've got CFI that gives you some in-between frames, it will probably help a lot with immersion.. Another example, just last night, I watched Born to be Wild 3D, and there was a scene where a baby elephant ran off the screen, stage right.. He started going too fast for the frame rate, and it got very "weird" / jumpy.. just for about 1 second tops.. But it was enough to be like "AAH!" I guess you could technically re-encode every movie at a higher frame rate, and that will do it for you, but that's a LOT of work, if you ask me...
Also, dynamic iris.. For me, one projector happens to be a bit brighter than the other one, to a point of annoyance, if I don't do something about it. I'm not sure if it's because of the High Power screen, and one projector being slighter higher than the other (probably not so much..), or if it's due to the Dolby filters, one being stronger than the other, or maybe just one of my projectors is dimmer.. Regardless, using the dynamic iris, I set one to all the way off, and the other to fully open, and it works really well for balancing them out.. I know this essentially kills extra contrast, but the dimming of the image by whatever 3D system you choose, doesn't really give you a same exactness as 2D in terms of contrast.. Or at least that's what I've seen..
Really, you don't need the newest/awesomest projectors here, but some features aaare useful.. The CFI is probably the most expensive / cost prohibitive option..
Also, as for worries of bulbs aging differently over time, I think you're going to enjoy such a set-up a whole lot more by just getting it, rather than fretting about it and waiting til better lighting options are available.. You'll use 3D so much less than 2D, it's not something to to pour every ounce of energy into worrying about. (And for bulb-aging, just swap which projector you use every X-hundred hours... it should keep them fairly even..).
Screen Type: The Da-Lite HighPower.. I'll never go back.. I wish I had only gone bigger.. They now have a High Power High Contrast.. I'd consider checking that one out, though it supposedly has a smaller sweet-spot, and there were some issues with the consistency of the material maybe, I read some where..? Something wasn't 100% with it yet.. For 3D, though, these filters drop down the light, which actually lowers the black-level (or maybe apparent black level?), so for 3D, a white screen probably shouldn't be much of a problem. But for doing 2D and 3D on one screen, I'd probably be happier with a high contrast (in addition to the high power).
With 3D and High Power, everything glows. It looks amazing. High Power all the way for me! If I step off to the side, I still see 3D, but it's dull and dim and NOT immersive. It COULD just be that my projectors are not very bright.. : D But even compared to the W6000 on black out cloth (bright!), I prefer the look of the High Power screen.
Screen Size: So I have a 106 inch diagonal.. My projectors are about 13 feet, 4 inches from the screen.. So that's I guess about a 1.73 throw ratio.. I think I could push it to a 119 at this distance, but the filters might be a bitttt too small.. 119 or 132 would be my preferred sized for sure.. 106 is great and all, but really 3D is all about big and wow-ing, and 106 is kinda falling short, haha.. It's great and all, but bigger, in this case, is definitely better..
Filters: Dolby 3D.. when I did this, Omega 3D's filters weren't around.. I just use the lenses from a pair of Dolby glasses.. And they work just fine.. Now, though, I'm sort of wanting these Omegas, to at least check them out and compaaare!
Cross-talk.. The only time I see anything is if there's white from one projector and black from the other.. Like if I open a directory in Windows looking for a file... You can see it a bit through the other eye.. Butt, that's pretty extreme, and it's pretty dim, so it's pretty much impossible to see during playback. I have never noticed any cross-talk issues... Howeverrr... The Dolby glasses have a center "sweet spot".. so if I turn my head, of I lean my head back on the couch and watch at an angle, there IS apparent cross-talk.. You need to look out through the center of the lenses. That's about the only issue.
Color Balance (or imbalance..).. It's definitely extreme, but hours of sitting in front of the projectors got me something pretty acceptable. Even if the Omega 3D filters help just a little bit, you're in for a big increase in color accuracy, so that should be great.
Also, the Omega ones are easy to get through the ebay auction.. The Dolby glasses were either (a) some what of a rip-off through eBay, or (b) you needed to get a hold of a theater-supply place. I did that, and the guy was super cool about ordering just a few pairs of glasses, but it was an ancient process.. Send me a form, I fill it out, write a check, send it back, he orders, etc etc. It was rather comical, and maybe that was just my experience / luck of who I called..
I think I've run out of stuff to blabber on about, haha..
Oh yea! One final thing... I don't know if this really works in terms of how much brighter 2 projectors + passive are vs 1 projector active.. But if I am watching a movie, and I "blank" the screen of one of the projectors, everything looks insanely dim.. And just loses all its luster. If that's what it looks like through active glasses, holy heck, I'm sorry for everyone who has to watch 3D that way.. I should go over to my friends' places and compare, actually.
At some point, I'm sure I'll pick up the Omega filters and compare them to my Dolby set up, and hopefully get better color correction while I'm at it. If/when I do, I'll report back, probably with fancy pictures, since I'll have time to do all thatttt if I do swap them out.
Anyway, that's my set up and experience with 3D, though it seems this thread has quieted down a whole lot.
