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The Ultimate 3D projection system: A Practical Discussion Thread - Page 62

post #1831 of 2268
Motorman, do you have a pdf of the manual for the 501 anywhere. I've been searching around the web, but couldn't locate one. Might be helpful to understand the full capabilities of the box.
post #1832 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Big note: "For You"
I sit at .77x and love it. 7' from a 120" screen.

Duly noted! Thanks for pointing that out.

And dang! .77x! For me, that is fine for 2D, but wow, 3D was pushing my comfort level.. maybe I'm out of practice, haha. I wonder if the 3D looked exaggeratedly wrong because I look slightly UP to the screen, rather than being level to it..? Beats mee, but I definitely felt the 3D looked too extreme / lacked "realness" when I got too close. I'll give it another shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

1.65x width would put you in the lobby of the iMax theater.

Haha, I agree with this statement.. As I said, 1.65x isn't enough, if you ask me, but that just happens to be my normal viewing distance due to room set up, etc. But I'm sure my mother would think it was the perfect distance. And I don't have a theater to put the less gung-ho in the back row, hehe.
post #1833 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimShadler View Post

Motorman, do you have a pdf of the manual for the 501 anywhere. I've been searching around the web, but couldn't locate one. Might be helpful to understand the full capabilities of the box.

yes i can get one and post it when i get back to work. there is an online manual i think as well. ive been playing around with the 501 to test its screen warping ability and its really nice. working on a curved screen setup. i hope to be making a video of its functions to put up on youtube soon but it takes time. ive got one guy who is making a 4 projector 3d system with two of these 501's and my filters for a really wide screen passive 3d rig. wish i could see it when its done.
post #1834 of 2268
I only have active so that may make a difference. Of course, everyone is different. Some people prefer the back row of my theater which is 1.2x. I have a little theater smile.gif
post #1835 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

I only have active so that may make a difference. Of course, everyone is different. Some people prefer the back row of my theater which is 1.2x. I have a little theater smile.gif

Haha.. It sure gives me a new perspective on multi-row theaters! I'd never thought twice about viewing distances before. And nice.. little theater makes for larger apparent screeeen! : D

I'm not sure if active/passive makes a difference, but I discovered that content definitely dooooes! I watched a couple IMAX movies at 0.75x distance, and they were freaking AWESOME, haha! THANK YOU for sitting so close! I had a GIANT grin watching that stuff, hehe.

I think my problem is that I mostly watched Avatar when I was sitting up close last night, and it was waaaay too fast-action and very tight shots, which was killing me at those closer distances. I tried it at 0.75x tonight and I was getting a headache. Outdoor wide-field shots were OK (awesome), but all the indoor shots were way too extreme for me. Also, close ups of human specifically were causing me problems. Close ups of the Navi were totally fine. I wound up sitting at 1.0x for a while and I started to reeeeally like, excepppt when there would be close ups of human heads.. those still seemed too big or something. 1.25x still seemed the most "natural" to me for Avatar, but I definitely got used to 1.0x and I was liking it. I think it's all about getting used to it.. I just needed the 0.75x practice, I guess. : D

Thanks! Except now I'm going to be sitting like a child in the middle of the room, haha. : D
post #1836 of 2268
Here is the manual for the GeoBox 501. hope this sheds some light on what this very cool box can do..

7844329744_df7c7b4882_b.jpg


G-500 Operation Manual.pdf 2692k .pdf file
post #1837 of 2268
here is my current demo rig using the GeoBox and the Omega DD3D filters

7844347882_53ec8e8242_b.jpg
post #1838 of 2268
Are our only options for splitting 3D to two projectors left and right still just the geobox and optoma xl 3d?
post #1839 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Are our only options for splitting 3D to two projectors left and right still just the geobox and optoma xl 3d?

i think there are some others like the 3dxl but not easy to find in the states , the next closest thing to the geobox is $7000-$9000. the 3dxl is just a 3D filter and dose not do what the geobox can in one unit. and then there is a PC with a dual ouput video card as a solution and running something like the Stereoscopic player software.
post #1840 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Are our only options for splitting 3D to two projectors left and right still just the geobox and optoma xl 3d?

If you're talking raw HDMI such as the output from a BD player, there's the Cypress CH-322 which is available through Australian and UK suppliers (a little less expensive than the 3D-XL), and VNS has been trying to introduce the G301, a lower cost version of the G500/501, but there have been further holdups on that until late September at least.

There's also a company (Fury) that makes a dongle that converts the HDMI signal into an analog component output, right or left selectable, but that is a tacky way to go (also two needed and expensive).

That's pretty much it right now.
Edited by RBTO - 8/28/12 at 1:32pm
post #1841 of 2268
another option is coming from 3d-vip and is does 1080p 60hz per eye.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1426159/3d-vip-3d-evolver-emminent-pre-launch
post #1842 of 2268
Here is a short video showing the GeoBox G-501 and its curved screen warping ability and edge masking adjustments.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0OWvLBOYZM
post #1843 of 2268
For most usages the G501 seems to be looking good, the only thing it lacks is proper 1080p60 input at full resolution support for PC gaming.
Which is sad cause it's the only thing I am really waiting for.
post #1844 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

For most usages the G501 seems to be looking good, the only thing it lacks is proper 1080p60 input at full resolution support for PC gaming.
Which is sad cause it's the only thing I am really waiting for.

when i play 3d from my pc thru the 501 the projectors and boc identify the signal as 1080p 60 hz as it aquires the image. and it plays games perfectly in 3d. i should setup a game that i can display the frame rate on and test it but it looks to me as though it can do 60hz at 1080.
post #1845 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

when i play 3d from my pc thru the 501 the projectors and boc identify the signal as 1080p 60 hz as it aquires the image. and it plays games perfectly in 3d. i should setup a game that i can display the frame rate on and test it but it looks to me as though it can do 60hz at 1080.
From reading the manual, the G501 can convert 1080p24 into 1080p60 if you don't tell it to force 24Hz mode, so no wonder the projectors tell 1080p at 60 Hz. The tricky question is : is it true full resolution 1080p 60Hz per eye all the way through ? or is it down-sampled somewhere in the middle ?

And also which graphics card are you using through which interface and which software are you using could give us hints about what's happening in the background. (DVI Dual-link, DisplayPort or Hdmi1.4a with more than the minimum spec ? is it the ful lresolution picture or is it squashed into a half resolution side by side ? etc...)
post #1846 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark View Post

From reading the manual, the G501 can convert 1080p24 into 1080p60 if you don't tell it to force 24Hz mode, so no wonder the projectors tell 1080p at 60 Hz. The tricky question is : is it true full resolution 1080p 60Hz per eye all the way through ? or is it down-sampled somewhere in the middle ?
And also which graphics card are you using through which interface and which software are you using could give us hints about what's happening in the background. (DVI Dual-link, DisplayPort or Hdmi1.4a with more than the minimum spec ? is it the ful lresolution picture or is it squashed into a half resolution side by side ? etc...)

all good questions. i dont know about the downsample but i can ask the maker, he will soon have the 301 for less money and we should also offer that one. but i have been using an Nvidia quadro 380 dual DVI and driving the two direct as well as running other times one DVI out of the card to the 501 and HDMI to the projectors. as far as the true resolution most of my demo video content is full res SBS but the gaming ? i will have to look deeper. i was using tridef to play COD and portal 2 in 3D as well as i have tried an Xbox 360 with its HDMI runnning right to the 501. when running the Xbox i am not sure what the actual resolution and frame rate is. i was woking on setting up a kinect with the 360 and playing the new star wars game as it is the only 3d game that uses the kinect. pretty cool but for the issue of projector stack placement in my space to be close to the screen. i need a high mount to make it an awsome gaming rig.
im not sure how to test the frame rates on some setups, i pc gamed for years and some games support a display of performance but im working on testing consoles and not sure how to test Hz.
post #1847 of 2268
I found the perfect shelf system @ Target for $11 and matched it with $8 clips from Ebay, which is important because I needed something to hold the filters infront of the lenses. Because these projectors shoot their beam at like a 5 degree upward angle I needed something to hold the filters just right. After looking at $200-$600 solutions I found these clips mentioned in this thread and they work great as you can see in the following pic smile.gif

This is the best 3D I have ever seen. Both projectors are able to produce full 60hz 1080P and the filters allow each eye to only see what each projector displays. There is no crosstalk, colors are excellent and brightness is perfect, which is amazing considering I am projecting on a WALL!!! Mafia II and Skryim look amazing in 3D on this setup. I have the naked mod on in Skryim and my Hot Nude female character was popping out of the 90" screen like a hologram!!!!

(I never realized her nipples were so big eek.gif )

I have tried many, many types of 3D displays and setups, but hands down The Omega 3D system and DLP projectors are the way to go if you want outstanding crosstalk free 3D while retaining the most picture quality and POP cool.gif

Unfortunately I am having strange problems with BF3 and Crysis 1. Basically, to get 3D, I created a 3840x1920 eyefinity group and have SBS parallel mode selected in TridefDDD. Mafia II and Skryim work perfectly when I select 1920x1080p in game options, but battlefield and Crysis 1 do not.

When I select 1920x1080 in battlefield, one of my eyes shows windows desktop and the other shows the game in 1920x1080p but it shows a split squished image. In order to get 3D with Crysis and BF3 I gotta select 3840x1080 but that gives me super squished 3D as it compresses 3840 down to 1920 mad.gif

I made a thread over at Tridef DDD and sent a support request to their staff. Hopefully a solution can be found.

Clipsinaction.jpg






I even tried stacking my dogs, but that still did not help BF3 or Crysis 1 tongue.gif
Doublestack.jpg
Edited by l88bastard - 9/11/12 at 6:48am
post #1848 of 2268
Very well done. Did you try the iZ3D drivers. Over at mtbs3d.com they rate games on the different drivers. Sometimes games not playable on one driver work great on the other. I really hope nVidia starts supporting dual projection again.
post #1849 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Are our only options for splitting 3D to two projectors left and right still just the geobox and optoma xl 3d?

Here is an option from Elite Screens, would like more info on it but can't seem to find it: http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/2012/09/06/elite-screens-shows-passive-3d-solution/
post #1850 of 2268
This is the Geobox 501 with a diffeerent name silk screened on it. it looks like they are asking 4k for one box from the youtube video they have up.
post #1851 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Here is an option from Elite Screens, would like more info on it but can't seem to find it: http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/2012/09/06/elite-screens-shows-passive-3d-solution/

Question for all of you interested in a dual stack video processor. what is this box worth to you ? i see elite screens is asking $3999 for the box and $4999 for the box and ten sets of polarizing glasses and a pair of polarizing projection filters. you all may know the omega filters kits and the large one sells for $850 with 10 pairs of glasses ??? and a few of you here were quoted prices for the 501 box. any thoughts ??
post #1852 of 2268
What will be interesting is what the 3d-vip evolver will go for. I don't believe it has the warp features but will split 3d to left and right projectors.
post #1853 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

What will be interesting is what the 3d-vip evolver will go for. I don't believe it has the warp features but will split 3d to left and right projectors.

and what would a reasonable price be for just splitting the 3D ? i know running two 3DXL boxes and a splittler sounds like its ~ $600 ?? right the VNS 301 box that is coming will be a small one box solution that is far less than the 501 but it wouldnt sell well unless its near to $500 or so retail. right ??
post #1854 of 2268
Reasonable is question of any individual. the 3DXL was kind of a fluke product since it was mainly suppose to be for people who want to upgrade there optoma to 3d. There is a lot of hardware there that you will not be utilizing, but are paying for to just to split the signal.

For this market the cost adds up. For me I look at cost benefit. Right now DLP projectors with 3D have very smooth 3d, no noticeable flicker and no ghosting, even though it is active.

So really it all comes down to what projector you first want to get then go from there.
post #1855 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Reasonable is question of any individual. the 3DXL was kind of a fluke product since it was mainly suppose to be for people who want to upgrade there optoma to 3d. There is a lot of hardware there that you will not be utilizing, but are paying for to just to split the signal.
For this market the cost adds up. For me I look at cost benefit. Right now DLP projectors with 3D have very smooth 3d, no noticeable flicker and no ghosting, even though it is active.
So really it all comes down to what projector you first want to get then go from there.
Yes^^^. For me it comes down to the fact that I only have four seats in front of my 3D projector, so four pair of RF shutter glasses is a much cheaper option than a 2nd projector, the splitting hardware, etc..
post #1856 of 2268
Well, passive is a whole lot better if you tried it. Yes, if you want cheap, active is the way to go, but for quality and eye strain, passive is much better. With active one eye is looking at black more than half the time. Motion is compromised, although the new Panny 8000 fixes that. Also, passive is the only way to PC game at 1080p.

The problem with the vip-evolver is it won't work for 1080p 3D PC gaming since it only has hdmi input.

if the Geobox 301 can use the dual-link dvi input to work with nVidia 3D vision for 1080p 3d gaming that would be worth even more than two 3dXL's, even without the screen warping and edge masking (which frankly seem like a top .05% thing.) but I would sure be happy if that was 600 bucks.
post #1857 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnielsenbb View Post

Well, passive is a whole lot better if you tried it. Yes, if you want cheap, active is the way to go, but for quality and eye strain, passive is much better. With active one eye is looking at black more than half the time. Motion is compromised, although the new Panny 8000 fixes that. Also, passive is the only way to PC game at 1080p.
The problem with the vip-evolver is it won't work for 1080p 3D PC gaming since it only has hdmi input.
if the Geobox 301 can use the dual-link dvi input to work with nVidia 3D vision for 1080p 3d gaming that would be worth even more than two 3dXL's, even without the screen warping and edge masking (which frankly seem like a top .05% thing.) but I would sure be happy if that was 600 bucks.
Have you tried 3D Vision @ 1080p in 3D on projectors? I personally would shy away from any 3rd party 3D drivers for one, but Nvidia 3D is solid on many titles. If it can be made to work w/ 1080p projectors w/ 3D Vision (and without a bunch of hacks that won't withstand Nvidia's regular driver updates), it would be worth looking into more from my perspective. But from my findings, Nvidia is very picky about what displays will work in 3D, especially in 3D Vision Surround. I run 3840x720 (but am now trying out 3072x768 instead for added height) in 3D Vision Surround, and trying other configurations not "officially" supported has been a perpetual nightmare. I'm frankly shocked I was able to get what I have running now with two different types of projectors to be stable, but (knock wood) it is. I just know that even using an EDID minder over HDMI or VGA, and pulling the DDC/EDID pin in DVI still did not allow me to run 3DV Surround with other more optimal settings (like using the projector's native 1280x800 for 3840x800.) So unless it's been done and demonstrated to work w/ one (or three) 1080p projectors (x2 for passive), I am wary. If they don't see it reporting as a DL DVI monitor EDID, and as a monitor on their supported list, don't count on being able to hack around it. I thought a modified EDID loaded in the .inf file of the monitor would for sure work w/ 1280x800, and it did (until every 2nd or 3rd restart where it would report itself as something else and break the 3D.) However, not trying to be negative- I'm genuinely interested in if it's possible to make 1080p 3D projection @ 120hz work for gaming w/ Nvidia. I hope so.

By the way this is my latest configuration:

and here is close-up (apologies for the strange auto-focus glitch when I pan making it look like the screens are wavy and moving!)
post #1858 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemav View Post

Yes^^^. For me it comes down to the fact that I only have four seats in front of my 3D projector, so four pair of RF shutter glasses is a much cheaper option than a 2nd projector, the splitting hardware, etc..

yes but that that dose not fit in this thread about Passive 3D and the ultimate setup. i agree for a cheap and easy 3D system you can use shutter glasses and they dont look bad, but compare it to a good dual passive install and its no where as good especially if you look at some crosstalk patterns. not saying most will opt for shutters but tis just not the direction of this thread.
post #1859 of 2268
For a 3D demuxer I would pay about $400 to $600 on a good day. I currently have a Benq W7000 with active 3D and to be honest there is little to no noticeable flicker and zero ghosting so far and it is bright. I do think that a dual set up with the Omega filters is probably the most superior set up but at what cost...
post #1860 of 2268
From my point of view, the demux box is just a type of adapter. The ideal price would be in the same range as all the usual active adapters we can find for PCs, in the 30-50$ range, alright you've got two displays to do so let's make it 100$.
Now dual projection 3D is a niche market and there are no other solutions on the market so I would accept to pay up to the equivalent price range of the Optoma 3DXL at about 300-400$. If it actually does the full 1080p at full resolution and 60Hz per eye, I'd be ready to spend much more (up to 800$) because it would solve a lot of compatibility issues I have and would guarantee software supprot for the foreseeable future, but I would never buy at the price Elite Screens asks for the G501, 4000$ is the same price of my entire projection system, that's way too high !
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