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The Ultimate 3D projection system: A Practical Discussion Thread - Page 63

post #1861 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemav View Post

Have you tried 3D Vision @ 1080p in 3D on projectors? I personally would shy away from any 3rd party 3D drivers for one
...
However, not trying to be negative- I'm genuinely interested in if it's possible to make 1080p 3D projection @ 120hz work for gaming w/ Nvidia. I hope so.
As far as I know there aren't any available consumer projectors supporting stereo 1080p at 60Hz per eye (either framepacking 60Hz nor frame sequential 120Hz).

The thing with Nvidia is that unless we have a good demultiplexer that works with Nvidia 3D Vision drivers, Nvidia consumer cards won't be suitable for proper dual-projection due to the lack of sync.
I have never seen anyone trying dual-projection surround, but I see only one way of doing that right now : that would be using one of the AMD Radeons with SIX mini-DP outputs, configuring the projectors as a six-displays wall (3x2), and have the left eye on the top row and the right eye on the bottom row, then use Tridef to display Over/under (set it up as side by side and then modify it to over/under using the in-game OSD). If setting the games to run at the native 3x1 eyefinity resolution, you should get the full native resolution over the passive surround rig.
I can see two drawbacks with this method :
-you need to make the game render at 3x1 Eyefinity resolution, while having the AMD driver still running the 3x2 screen setup, I know for sure that Tridef is able to force the AMD driver to use a different resolution than what the games believe they are rendering but I do not know if the 3x1 resolution will be available to be selected inside the games.
-in this mode Tridef does not support Crossfire, so the FPS performance is bound to a single card : I already cannot run every game at max settings with a single 1080p stereo display, having 3 will surely make most games crawl unless they are old. You might want to stick to your 1024x768 projectors.
post #1862 of 2268
I would spend $500 on the 3d splitter. so for the whole omega package around $1400.

But please do something with the glasses. I know they are fine for testing but when guest come over they look at them and go REALLY. HEHE.
post #1863 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

I would spend $500 on the 3d splitter. so for the whole omega package around $1400.
But please do something with the glasses. I know they are fine for testing but when guest come over they look at them and go REALLY. HEHE.

thanks for the feedback. i kind of felt that the price of the 501 may be an issue. one thing i know is the 501 box makes aligning the two projectors far easier with the warping ability to the point where 2D looks good with both projectors on and the filters in place.
i thought that might be a plus of the box costing a little more. when i list the 501 with the omega kit i have been thinking it would be better to offer more glasses in the bundle. ???

http://www.amazon.com/theater-projection-system-passive-projector/dp/B008LWCC82
post #1864 of 2268
Hi motorman45,
Think space2001 is referring to the industrial-look of the frame of the 3D glasses and is asking if you could improve on the aesthetic.
post #1865 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haw View Post

Hi motorman45,
Think space2001 is referring to the industrial-look of the frame of the 3D glasses and is asking if you could improve on the aesthetic.

i know the glasses do look pretty industrial, it was not a choice i had any say in. when we ramped up for mass production with Panavision the design of the frames was changed from the initial design that was far more appealing to the current by a group of marketing guys. it takes several thousand $$ to make a new mold and go thru prototyping, i have tens of thousands of these frames in boxes not its what it is for now.
we all do desire to change the frame as it has issues with children and are less than ideal. i had one offer for someone to handle the prototyping costs in order to get some business but that fell thru recently. im working on another plan now to improve the frame as well as working on my single projector solution for the 3D system.
post #1866 of 2268
It seems that Laird is now offering a demultiplexer, but it looks to me like it may be a rebadged Cypress CH-322.

Laird LDC-3D-2D-HD 3D HD 1080P Demultiplexer
post #1867 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

i know the glasses do look pretty industrial, it was not a choice i had any say in. when we ramped up for mass production with Panavision the design of the frames was changed from the initial design that was far more appealing to the current by a group of marketing guys. it takes several thousand $$ to make a new mold and go thru prototyping, i have tens of thousands of these frames in boxes not its what it is for now.
we all do desire to change the frame as it has issues with children and are less than ideal. i had one offer for someone to handle the prototyping costs in order to get some business but that fell thru recently. im working on another plan now to improve the frame as well as working on my single projector solution for the 3D system.

Thanks motorman45, understood the situation you're in.

The single projector solution for passive 3D is interesting.
post #1868 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

thanks for the feedback. i kind of felt that the price of the 501 may be an issue. one thing i know is the 501 box makes aligning the two projectors far easier with the warping ability to the point where 2D looks good with both projectors on and the filters in place.
i thought that might be a plus of the box costing a little more. when i list the 501 with the omega kit i have been thinking it would be better to offer more glasses in the bundle. ???
http://www.amazon.com/theater-projection-system-passive-projector/dp/B008LWCC82

This 2D viewing potential intrigues me. How good is it? How much can the 501 compensate for miss matched zoom, lens shift and mounting, and how bad is the picture affected?

I ask as I've found this thread interesting and have been considering doing a passvie 3d system with my older PJs in my office where I have good light control, but .....I also have a projector only living room set up with much ambient light and a big screen that will be getting a new PJ shortly. I could greatly benefit from the extra lumens from a dual projector usage in 2D, and the bonus of a passive 3D system is fantastic. I would have to build a frame to hold the dual projectors for the cieling mount, and since their would be two PJs and extra gear, I would likely be buying used/refurbs, or lower end new PJs, but if it could do it, it would be great!
Edited by mppatt01 - 9/28/12 at 8:31am
post #1869 of 2268
Just posted my full Omega 3d setup for sale in the classifieds. Any questions let me know.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431604/dual-projector-passive-3d-bundle-2-vivitek-5080-2-darby-omega-3d-kit

Comes with 2 - Vivitek H5080 projectors
2 Darby Units
Omega 3d Filters L & R
5 - Omega 3d Glasses
post #1870 of 2268
Going for something better or simply giving up on 3D?
post #1871 of 2268
Setup works great. We just bought a vacation home, and I would like to do a home theater, but be able to take the projector with. Moving all of that around would just be two much work. Going to go with one of the Sony HW50's instead. I'm sure I'll revisit this later on down the road. Especially if motorman perfects a single projector unit.

Tim
post #1872 of 2268
so here is our large kit finally in a bundle with the VNS GeoBox G-501. its got 12 pairs of glasses and the larger filter set.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Passive-3D-Viewing-Kit-for-use-with-Dual-Projectors-with-12-pr-of-glasses-/160893912706?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item2576064682

here is a short video of me adjusting the image and showing the menu some. a more detailed video to come

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0OWvLBOYZM

im working on a some good photos of the dual projector setup with this box shwoing 2D filters in place and both projectors on to demonstrate the alighment ability this box offers.
hopefully soon ill get pics up as im also working on an Xbox with kinnect and 3D setup using this box as well to show its gaming ability.
Edited by motorman45 - 10/2/12 at 5:13pm
post #1873 of 2268
Hey Motorman,

Does the 501, have the abilities to compensate for the colors.
post #1874 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

Hey Motorman,
Does the 501, have the abilities to compensate for the colors.

it has color adjustments but for both outputs, he said he would be making units with individual color adjustment per side this fall but i have not seen one yet. i will get back to him and see.
post #1875 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by mppatt01 View Post

This 2D viewing potential intrigues me. How good is it? How much can the 501 compensate for miss matched zoom, lens shift and mounting, and how bad is the picture affected?
I ask as I've found this thread interesting and have been considering doing a passvie 3d system with my older PJs in my office where I have good light control, but .....I also have a projector only living room set up with much ambient light and a big screen that will be getting a new PJ shortly. I could greatly benefit from the extra lumens from a dual projector usage in 2D, and the bonus of a passive 3D system is fantastic. I would have to build a frame to hold the dual projectors for the cieling mount, and since their would be two PJs and extra gear, I would likely be buying used/refurbs, or lower end new PJs, but if it could do it, it would be great!

Hi. so i ran some tests and using the alignment ability of the Geobox 501 i can say that the 2D looked very good. here is a couple of photos i took with both projectors on and the omega filters in place. 2 optoma HD20's on a matt white screen about 140" image. same left eye image from both units. its hard to photo the image but this should show how well the Geobox gets the image aligned. also there was a fair amount of stray or ambient light so black levels are not as good as than can be at night in the space i use

8051714362_b5a73d6d24_b.jpg

8051713298_405327dd46_b.jpg

8051753547_e255faf46f_b.jpg
Edited by motorman45 - 10/3/12 at 2:38pm
post #1876 of 2268
Is it possible to switch between 16:9 and 2.35:1 viewing with the 501? The two main methods are zoom or anamporhic lens. For the zoom method, even if you had two of the projectors that do an auto zoom between 16:9 and 2.35:1, would it keep things in perfect alignment? My hunch is that the alignment would be slightly off between the two. Can you have two different settings in the 501, one when the projectors were at 16:9, and the second when they were zoomed into 2.35:1?

For the second method, using two anamorphic lens, I would think there would be less of a chance for the alignment to get messed up when moving the lens' into place than compared to the zooming method, is that true? If you did you use the anamorphic lens, can both a lens and a 3d filter be in place in front of the projector?
post #1877 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipester View Post

Is it possible to switch between 16:9 and 2.35:1 viewing with the 501? The two main methods are zoom or anamporhic lens. For the zoom method, even if you had two of the projectors that do an auto zoom between 16:9 and 2.35:1, would it keep things in perfect alignment? My hunch is that the alignment would be slightly off between the two. Can you have two different settings in the 501, one when the projectors were at 16:9, and the second when they were zoomed into 2.35:1?
For the second method, using two anamorphic lens, I would think there would be less of a chance for the alignment to get messed up when moving the lens' into place than compared to the zooming method, is that true? If you did you use the anamorphic lens, can both a lens and a 3d filter be in place in front of the projector?

Im not sure about switching between the two formats on the geobox but the unit has a memory to program and save a set of adjustments. i agree that if you change zoom on the lens you may lose some alignment depending on the quality of the lens, ive done exactly that after an alignment and it changed.
each chanel on the 501 box has its own alignment settings so if you had two different projectors in two locations you can align the two and save it as a setting. you could place the Omega 3D filters fixed right in front of a lens and behind an anamorphic lens to get 2.35:1 and then just move the anamorphic in or out to change format. with a precise mount and movement you could program alignment for the two settings as well for swithching.
i hope that helps answer your questions. there is a PDF manual for the box posted in this thread a little ways back.
post #1878 of 2268
I found a PDF comparing all of the GEO boxes, you can look at it at http://www.computex.biz/PhotoPool2/201203/201203051721597343.pdf
post #1879 of 2268
there will also be a new 300 series geobox coming that is a less costly demuxer without the image alignment option.
post #1880 of 2268
I finnaly got around to making a new video of our latest fun with an Xbox 360 and a Kinnect taking advantage of the Geobox;s alignment ability and doing some fun immersive 3D gaming on a ~12' screen. im standing about 10' from the 12' image from the Xbox, the demultiplexr works perfectly with the Xbox to split the image. i did not see any noticeable lag as i played TinTin in passive 3D.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLqkZ45AW-c

in the gameplay you can see my friend hold one eyes filter in front of the camera and you can see how clear the image is, no ghosting and very bright for two 1500 lumen 1080p DLP projectors on about a 12' image. this was a lot of fun to film.
post #1881 of 2268
While I like the geobox for lining up the images. This is do to the fact that you are using a projector with no lens shift.

This will make it so you are missing part of the image from one projector. The best is to use minimal amount of the geobox. Align the projectors the best you can before.
post #1882 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by space2001 View Post

While I like the geobox for lining up the images. This is do to the fact that you are using a projector with no lens shift.
This will make it so you are missing part of the image from one projector. The best is to use minimal amount of the geobox. Align the projectors the best you can before.

i agree lens shift makes this better but still never as perfect alignment even with lens shift for two projectors. in the video i had the two non lens shift projectors missaligned on purpose to show the alignment tool better. and i was missing a small amout of one projector. you can see that in the final image. but when i do line them up first before using the image anyplace tool i miss so very little you dont see that edge missing.
these are two $600 1080p projectors, hard to beat an image this size looking so good for little money. even with two high end projectors with lens shift there is always a slight differance in the images that with both on in 2D you can see. not with the geobox. like the images i posted before in 2D with both low cost projectors the image is near perfect.

if i could i would have a pair of Benq W7000 with lens shift...
Edited by motorman45 - 10/12/12 at 1:57pm
post #1883 of 2268
May i know what are the models for the 2 $600 1080p projectors you were using motorman45?
post #1884 of 2268
they are two used Optoma HD20's. got them of ebay for $600 each
post #1885 of 2268
Hey motorman45
How long before the single projector kits? I have a rs1 and would love to get 3d working on.
post #1886 of 2268
Please motorman due give us an update in the single projector 3D kits. I think that is your gold mine! Dual set ups are great but not practical for everyone BUT a single projector kit I think you would sell more that you could make!
Any possibility of a dlp color wheel that is optically coated or produced that can do passive 3D with your system if we swap out the original color wheel?
post #1887 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Please motorman due give us an update in the single projector 3D kits. I think that is your gold mine! Dual set ups are great but not practical for everyone BUT a single projector kit I think you would sell more that you could make!
Any possibility of a dlp color wheel that is optically coated or produced that can do passive 3D with your system if we swap out the original color wheel?

I have a design for an entire projector. it cant be a kit, i dont have really many resources or a partner like a projector manufacturer. having spent a few years working with all kinds of projection equipment and a few decades of r&d on all kinds of optical systems i think i have some very good designs. not much $$ though.
i agree it would be a good seller and its possible to make a single passive 3D unit and be ~$3k or less. cant be a modified color wheel as they run so fast to eliminate rbe and no way to time the two eyes in any easy method with existing projectors. there is an optional design for an add on module that would be the size of those custom anamorphic prisms ive seen some use that could make passive 3D on any projector but its as costly as buying another projector. still need capitol and a partner. the company i work for is a filter compnay and thats what we make.
im working on a rough prototype in hopes of having something i can demo to a projector maker at some point. sorry to say im not further along
post #1888 of 2268
Any new demuxers? I see the Geobox but it's out of my price range.
post #1889 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

Any new demuxers? I see the Geobox but it's out of my price range.

what is your price range ?
post #1890 of 2268
Realistically I can do $500 or so.
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