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The Ultimate 3D projection system: A Practical Discussion Thread - Page 70

post #2071 of 2268
Could someone explain this to me in simplest terms:
If I were to buy 2 LCD or LCOS projectors that have some internal polarization can I do circular or linear polarized 3D? If so please explain and remember to keep it simple in terms of terminology and technology.
post #2072 of 2268
Curtis the Best thing to do is look at the first post in this thread. That being said, I will do a little explanation. First off you need to know the internal polarization of you projector. Not all projectors have there polarization the exact same way. JVC I believe has all there's horizontally polarized.

All you have to do is add a retarder in front of it to change the angle of the polarization.(I believe this is correct.)

This will give you the brightest image out of the projector since the image is already polarized.

I have the OMEGA system, and can say that in terms of ghosting there is none. Downsides are you need bright projectors and the ability to color correct since the color rivalry will be there. Plus side is you do not need a Polarized screen.

Hope that helps.
post #2073 of 2268
I may have asked this before but I still have not gotten a straight answer: Is there any internal polarization in the Panasonic PT AR100U? If so are all the colors polarized the same? If I buy it and make a dual passive unit I will want to do all: circular, linear and omega so I can have the best off all worlds.
post #2074 of 2268
If you have access to the inside of the projector it might be cool but replacing filters of any kind in and out of a projector unit over and over might be more hassle than fun.
I would think The Omega filters are probably the only ones you would want to mount next to a hot lamp since they are metal oxide coatings.
not sure about the polarizers
post #2075 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtishd View Post

I may have asked this before but I still have not gotten a straight answer: Is there any internal polarization in the Panasonic PT AR100U? If so are all the colors polarized the same? If I buy it and make a dual passive unit I will want to do all: circular, linear and omega so I can have the best off all worlds.

Not sure on the AR100U. The Panasonic AE series (2D) is non-polarized but that may not apply to the AR100U. If you have access to one, just put a linear polarizer (polarized sun glasses work) in front of it, rotate the polarizer, and see what happens. If the image darkens or changes colors as you rotate the filter, the projector is polarized.

You can't do all three methods of 3D at once. You need to choose one - circular polarization, linear polarization, OR Omega. If your projector has all three colors polarized the same, the best choice is linear polarization. Rotate one projector polarization 90 degrees with a retarder (and a polarizer to clean the beam up). It gives you better channel separation than circular.

If some colors are polarized differently than others, it's a whole different game and you need a special retarder that's been mentioned in this forum earlier.

The Omega system doesn't care much about polarization but uses a different set of filters entirely. It's downside is some color differential between channels that might need correction, but crosstalk is virtually non-existent. Also, the filters are very angle sensitive and any tilt will affect performance.

Omega filters can go in the projector internally, but polarizers are only good in front of the lens. They (polarizers) won't take the heat or intense light.
post #2076 of 2268
Some of the newer Nvidia Quadros offer edge blending and warpalization
This could be a better solution for someone that doesn't want to add any video delay in their pipeline since it's handled by the GPU.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-mosaic-technology.html

Here's a pdf
http://www.nvidia.com/content/siggraph/Nash_Seamless_Display.pdf
post #2077 of 2268
Anybody knows about any high lumen pj with all 3 colors polarized with the same alignment? Perhaps SXRD Sonys, FH30,31,35,36? I need at least 3500 lm and tr about 2.8 and higher (or replacable lenses).
The only I know are the old 2400 lm Epson 8000/9000 since the newer 8100/9100 have green orthogonal to r+b. The JVC DILAs are too dark for my purpose.
post #2078 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rugrash View Post

Some of the newer Nvidia Quadros offer edge blending and warpalization
This could be a better solution for someone that doesn't want to add any video delay in their pipeline since it's handled by the GPU.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-mosaic-technology.html

Here's a pdf
http://www.nvidia.com/content/siggraph/Nash_Seamless_Display.pdf

This is pretty cool. it looks like a great solution for dual passive 3D as well as multi projector walls. i will try and get one to mess with.
post #2079 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg43x View Post

Anybody knows about any high lumen pj with all 3 colors polarized with the same alignment? Perhaps SXRD Sonys, FH30,31,35,36? I need at least 3500 lm and tr about 2.8 and higher (or replacable lenses).
The only I know are the old 2400 lm Epson 8000/9000 since the newer 8100/9100 have green orthogonal to r+b. The JVC DILAs are too dark for my purpose.


Take a look at the Epson G series. They have a Polarized solutions
post #2080 of 2268
i researched to my best ability 2 mths ago. there was great hope on epson 5020. supposedly 5010 is polarised per other members. my limited testing ability in bestbuy showed that epson 5020 is not polarised. i am therefore in process of setting up a 3d system with panasonic AE8000 with linear polarization. I am not sure how it will turn out, but i am excited-- i am shooting for 144 inch silver screen.
should be ready in hopefully 4 weeks or so.
post #2081 of 2268
At home there's no need to have more light than your Pany has. You get rid of around 55% of the light, but there's a big screen gain so I would not be bothered.

space2001: thanks, PowerLite Pro G5750WUNL, 4500 lm seem sufficient, but the price is rather high (MSRP including tax $8000 in my country), but I'll keep my eye on it if it really has all colors polarized then it would be the killer 3D solution for small auditoria using only 1/2w retarders.

There's a image from the Epson's brochure which shows the light engine. So this means that all the 3 colors would have the same polarization?

4f5ed8249597434.jpg
Edited by zorg43x - 4/17/13 at 11:50pm
post #2082 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorg43x View Post

At home there's no need to have more light than your Pany has. You get rid of around 55% of the light, but there's a big screen gain so I would not be bothered.

space2001: thanks, PowerLite Pro G5750WUNL, 4500 lm seem sufficient, but the price is rather high (MSRP including tax $8000 in my country), but I'll keep my eye on it if it really has all colors polarized then it would be the killer 3D solution for small auditoria using only 1/2w retarders.

There's a image from the Epson's brochure which shows the light engine. So this means that all the 3 colors would have the same polarization?

4f5ed8249597434.jpg

there is no real information on weather or not this is polarized with all colors being the same. i have also looked thru my information even though im not a fan of polarizing systems, mostly becuase i love solving technical problems and i have a lot of info from projector makers, but how they do their polarization varies and is not well documented. if i can find anyting i will post it.
post #2083 of 2268
I was wondering if you can help me.

Ive been looking for 3 projectors for a 3d vision surround setup but i can not find any that are in stock or still being made (acer h5360 original & optoma gt720). All the new projectors appear to be going 3dtv play instead and i dont think that works in surround mode and i think they run at 24 fps per second instead of the 120/60fps with 3d vision.

i was even looking at the aaxa 3d led showtime and thought maybe i can hack it to work with 3d vision. what is your advise. all i want is 3 projectors running in 3d surround.
post #2084 of 2268
post #2085 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalsleep View Post

I'm waiting on the same thing, an affordable solution for Nvidia 3D Vision, if only Nvidia would support running two outputs to separate projectors. I wonder if someone could write a DirectX plugin/mod to support this? Then you wouldn't need a demux or be forced to use AMD / Tridef to pull this off.

besides tridef does not sopport DX10/11 games with dual projector output.... Yes it´s tru and it´s ********.
post #2086 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

besides tridef does not sopport DX10/11 games with dual projector output.... Yes it´s tru and it´s ********.

With a decent demultiplexer it should support dx10/11 games. like the geobox
post #2087 of 2268
tha´s tru. my point was that you can´t really game with nvidia if you don´t have demultiplexer.
Motoman do you offer geobox bundles ? small omega set with geobox 501 or the 201 (or what was the simper version of 501 with out image warpping)
post #2088 of 2268
Has anyone tried the Airflex5d? I'm just starting out now looking to see if I can find an affordable passive 3d projector solution. The airflex looks like a product that should included in the first post, but I don't see much info about it yet.
post #2089 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by sulakd View Post

Has anyone tried the Airflex5d? I'm just starting out now looking to see if I can find an affordable passive 3d projector solution. The airflex looks like a product that should included in the first post, but I don't see much info about it yet.
Airflex is the geobox.
post #2090 of 2268
Just found out that the new budget Optoma HD25 projector can be switched to project either the left or right image of a 3D source.

In other words, we could quite easily setup a passive 3D system with just a HDMI splitter to feed the 3D source to two HD25's and have one set to project the left and the other to project the right image.
post #2091 of 2268
That was mentioned earlier this thread. It would be a great setup for Motorman's omega 3d system. Still doesn't solve the 1080p gaming issue.
post #2092 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan Janne View Post

tha´s tru. my point was that you can´t really game with nvidia if you don´t have demultiplexer.
Motoman do you offer geobox bundles ? small omega set with geobox 501 or the 201 (or what was the simper version of 501 with out image warpping)

i have both the 501 and 201 box's. only one 201 at the moment but will have more soon. ive got five 501's to sell at a bargain. PM me for info and price. the 201 is just about the same as the 501 but without the digital alignment/ warping. i have bundles with the omega 3D kits that will save you a bit over the parts separate. the 201 with omega 3d projection fillters and 6 pairs of glasses for 999$. i have a similar package for the 501 or i will sell the the demux boxs alone. again you have to PM me as i cant advertise the cost of the 501.

i have tested the 201 a bunch and its fantastic at auto demultiplexing. i cant recall the issues with 1080p gaming, was it the 60fps ? either way gaming rocks with these. here is a video i made with my coworker of me playing black opps using the 501 and my portable 3d rig.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBBZry-2gSE

i tried to show how well the optics wok here by zooming in on the scope with one eye filter, no ghosting. so you can actually use the scope! and this was with 2 cheap 2700 lumen dlp projectors on 170" screen.

i believe youre right on about the optoma HD25 Haw but i have not talked to anyone who has done it yet. great idea to save some $$.
post #2093 of 2268
Believe Optoma incorporated their 3D-XL circuitry into the HD25.

Of interest is the HD25 using TI's triple flash technology similar to what commercial 3D cinemas are using. Could we perhaps use a single HD25 with a modulator or rotor-type polariser to create Passive 3D?
Edited by Haw - 5/4/13 at 12:03am
post #2094 of 2268
Nvidia has recently stated that they are looking into adding some type of dual output mode for 4K Displays.

I'm not sure how it might apply in a passive application since they are talking about display port.

But perhaps you guys might throw in your two cents and make an argument to get support as well.

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/539645/nvidia-surround/2-monitor-gaming-/

Be sure to tell them you bought Titans as well and have a lot of money invested :P
post #2095 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haw View Post

Believe Optoma incorporated their 3D-XL circuitry into the HD25.

Of interest is the HD25 using TI's triple flash technology similar to what commercial 3D cinemas are using. Could we perhaps use a single HD25 with a modulator or rotor-type polariser to create Passive 3D?

it would not be true passive if the there is a flickering pannel or wheel in front of the projector ( or inside it for that matter). it will work of course but is not as good as two projectors.
post #2096 of 2268
I just felt the need to say that these Omega units are the best kept secret on the board. I just finished my setup and the 3D is outstanding. (No color correction needed) I am using two higher level Optoma DLP units with two Optoma 3D XL boxes. Alignment of the units even with vertical and horizontal lens shift however was quite tricky. To the Omega guys job well done.
post #2097 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by motorman45 View Post

it would not be true passive if the there is a flickering pannel or wheel in front of the projector ( or inside it for that matter). it will work of course but is not as good as two projectors.
Active/passive only refers to the glasses. Single projector systems with colour wheels such as Dolby or polarisation modulator such as RealD are passive systems.
You probably mean simultaneous presentation, compared with sequential presentation.
post #2098 of 2268
Sorry, but a flickering panel is not passive, passive should be 2 sources of light ~appropriate image all the time for each eye. With the wheel, it's the same as if the flickering would be done in the glasses. Some people might find this anoying, i.e. me, I can see most DLP "rainbowing"...
post #2099 of 2268
Well, I don't know for sure, but I believe those systems don't have the huge blanking time, which is most of the problem with active glasses (plus it isn't black right in front of your eyes, which I am sure has to be a eye focus pain), also a big problem with active is the weight of the glasses. I know it wouldn't be optimal, but I think it would be way better than active glasses imo.
post #2100 of 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haw View Post

Believe Optoma incorporated their 3D-XL circuitry into the HD25.

Of interest is the HD25 using TI's triple flash technology similar to what commercial 3D cinemas are using. Could we perhaps use a single HD25 with a modulator or rotor-type polariser to create Passive 3D?

I think what the OP is referring to is converting the triple-flash output to passive similar to what is used in most theaters (passive glasses).

The Optoma is most likely active in the sense that it intermixes left and right frames in rapid succession (144 per second in a 24 fps system) and the glasses (active) sort that out for the viewer. It is theoretically possible to place a rotating polarizer wheel in front of such a projector (or any active projector) to convert alternate flashes to polarized ones and then use passive glasses, but that's pretty counterproductive since image brightness would be further reduced, and the only advantage would be a single projector and the ability to use passive headwear. Flicker would still be present (thought significantly reduced with a triple-flash approach) and the filter wheel would need to be synchronized with the projector output, not to mention, the filter wheel would be a pretty unwieldy buzz saw sitting there in front of the projector.
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