60hz and 5:5 pulldown

The TV has to be able to refresh at 120Hz, but it doesn't have to have a 120Hz motion interpolation/enhancement feature.

"120Hz" in TV marketing typically means the latter, though of course to have 120Hz motion enhancement the panel has to be able to refresh as such. The former is not well documented by TV makers.

But it is possible to have a TV without a motion enhancer feature that can still refresh "internally" at 120Hz, have 24p input capability and do a proper 5:5 on it. This would still be referred to as a "60Hz" TV in marketing.

Furthermore TVs that have 120Hz motion enhancers don't necessarily do a 5:5 pulldown either!

So really you could have one "60Hz" TV that does 24p input and 5:5, while another TV with "120Hz" and accepts 24p input might not do 5:5.

No 60Hz TV can do 5:5 pulldown since 60 is not disable by 24. So a 60hz TV can only inmplemtent "true cinema" using 3:2 pulldown. A 120 Hz TV can do 5:5 pulldown since 120/24 = 5.

My guess is a misprint (or marketing fabrication). Most likely does 2:2 at 48 Hz like Sharp.

In that case the TVs are able to refresh the panel at 120Hz, the TV just doesn't have a 120Hz motion enhancer feature (a useless feature IMO anyway because it just makes things look stupid--"soap opera effect").

So they are 120Hz TVs if they are doing 5:5 but they are marketed as 60Hz because they didn't include a motion interpolation feature. The text you quoted in your third post is exactly what I meant in my post. Motion interpolation/enhancer features are not the same thing as a panel that actually refreshes at 120Hz.

Let's start with the fact that consumer TVs all only accept up to 60Hz on their inputs. Many TVs have 24Hz (or 23.9xx if you prefer) input capability as well. But if the screen actually refreshed that slow you would notice flicker. So no screen actually refreshes at 24Hz. By the same token just because you can only feed up to a 60Hz input doesn't mean the panel is necessarily refreshing at 60Hz either. So TVs can run "internally" at some other refresh rate, one that is usually not published. What is published is simply the motion enhancer features which some sets have. This is what determines the "hertz rating" of a TV in the consumer marketplace. That rating however is not necessarily what the TV refreshes at.

If you do have a "120Hz" or "240Hz" enhancer on the TV, then you know the panel has to be able to refresh at least that fast, otherwise the feature would be useless (well I think it is anyway but I mean ineffective in this context). However, just because the panel refreshes at 120Hz or more does not mean you also get a 5:5 on a 1080p24 signal. That should be the case but there are examples where some manufacturers/models have not done this.

So...

Assuming that you can input a 24Hz signal (if you couldn't this is all moot because there's no way you'd be able to get 5:5 then)...

"120Hz" means you have a panel that is capable of refreshing at least up to 120Hz. It says nothing about 5:5 pulldown. It might do this, or it might not.

"60Hz" (or the lack of mention of 120Hz or 240Hz) means you have a TV that is capable of refreshing at least that fast; but you don't know if it can/is refreshing faster than that. The set may be capable of refreshing at 120Hz+ despite the fact that there is no motion enhancer for 120Hz. Again though this says nothing about whether it can do 5:5 or not.

If you know for sure the set does 5:5, then you know the panel is refreshing at 120Hz. This is regardless of, and separate from, the presence of a "120Hz" or "240Hz" mode on the TV (motion enhancer).

This is the best of my understanding from everything I've read online both here at AVS and elsewhere. I'm pretty sure I'm correct in the above, though it's possible I'm mistaken.

Hopefully that clears it up?


It's not really deception, but it is misleading. Pretty much all TV manufacturers describe a TV's "hertz" by what motion enhancer it has. If it has none it's a "60Hz" TV, if it has that feature it will be "120Hz" or "240Hz" or whatever. That hertz figure is not necessarily the native or internal refresh rate of the TV/panel. As someone else pointed out above the panel may even operate at 48Hz when a 24Hz input is received (2:2), but nowhere will you ever see a TV sold as "48Hz". It's either sold as "60Hz" or "120Hz" or "240Hz" based entirely on what motion enhancer it has.

I am considering an LG 32ld450 TV and was also confused by the 24P with 5:5 pull down capabilties.I have just bought a Panasonic bd-85 BD player. The manual states that the player will output 24p when selected, if the tv has that capabilty. Since LG states that it's ld450 has a 24p mode hopefully it will be able to do it. All info I was able to find states that 120hz refresh rate is needed. I think I may take a chance on that model.

There is one User's manual for many LD models which included the xx450 and xx520 models see to download:

http://www.lg.com/us/support/product...oduct-profile#

Page 112 says Tru-Motion is available for the 120Hz models.
Page 109 states the followiing for Real Cinema
"
Makes video clips recorded in film look more natural by eliminating judder
effect.
ꔛ DVD and Blu-ray movies are filmed at 24 frames per second (fps). With
LG Real Cinema, every frame is consistently processed 5 times in 1/24 of
a second producing 120 fps with TruMotion or 2 times in 1/24 of a second
producing 48 fps without TruMotion, thus totally eliminating the judder
effect. This function can also work when TruMotion is off.
"
So in interpred the spec line about Real Cinema to mean 5:5 pulldow for 120Hz and 2:2 for50 and 60Hz models and AFAIK you get flicker running 2:2 pulldown on a 60Hz set.