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Mark's From the Ground up Cinema Build - Page 2

post #31 of 410
Thread Starter 
Whoops, did I get the car in the picture!!! Ha ha B.M. I cant get anything past you my friend. It does have a 32 inch tv in the trunk so I though it might pass as a theater build!!
post #32 of 410
Build's looking good =]

That is one buttload of wire. Maybe two buttloads.
post #33 of 410
Hey there,

I came across your thread when I was searching for Genelec. I will be taking delivery on my HTS4B and HT206's this weekend. Looks like yours is really going to turn out amazingly based on your last theater. If I decide to stay here in my house I will be building these speakers into cabinetry, but for now I will be using speaker stands for the fronts and in-wall AIW25's for the rears.

Britton
post #34 of 410
I like your direction!

Can soundproofing be effective with that large window in the room?
post #35 of 410
Thread Starter 
Good point and yes I plan on heavy (velvet?) motorized curtains over the window. I do plan on bringing someone in to help me with some soundproofing ideas as I am not up to speed with this area. In my last theater room I installed acoustic panels and some reflective panels in my theater room as it was a remodel of an existing room and I was limited. I have the oppourtunity building from the ground up to go a little further than installing a few sound panels. Any advice would be appreciated if you or anyone else has any suggestions. P.S. I hope to be able to purchase a Genelec HTS6 subwoofer for this room and I hear people talking about their pant legs rattling when using this sub so I guess I better have some sound management and everything tied down in the room!!
post #36 of 410
Very cool build, and great hot rod. You and Ccool96 will have to get together and do a car/theatre show.
post #37 of 410
Thread Starter 
Last week I decided to pull the trigger on a new Genelec HTS-6. I have been using a pair of Genelec HTS-4b's with a lot of success but I decided to pick up something with some serious bottom end. Four 12 inch woofers are mounted in a cabinet weighing 265 lbs.....we unloaded the packing crate in my garage with a forklift!!! Final picture is the sub-woofer in my temporary theater room which is 12' by 24'. Got it in late today and cant wait to crank it up tomorrow.







The subwoofer also was one of the reasons I met with the drywall contractor and insulation contractor today. Two of the walls of the media room are outside walls and they are 8 inch block with every 4th cell poured solid with concrete and the 3 cells between are foam filled. On the inside of the block wall is 1/2 inch foam insulation. The two interior walls of the media room are 2 x 6. If I am understanding this correctly I will install resilient clips on the inside, run the hat channel, then two layers of drywall (one 5/8 and one 1/2) bonded with green glue. On the inside of the interior 2 x 6 walls I will install 6 " fiberglass insulation. Although the house is two story I made sure my media room was on the opposite side of the house from the master suite and media room is single story. I plan to use two sheets of drywall on the ceiling and then 1 " sound insulation. Kinetics Noise has a product called Stretch Trak which is a channel which allows you to stretch fabric over sound absorbing material which I plan to apply on the ceiling area. I am undecided as to acoustic panels for the side walls.
post #38 of 410
Holy hell that is one nice set of speakers.

Time to call your insurance agent to update your homeowner's policy!
post #39 of 410
All I can say is WOW!!!
post #40 of 410
Double WOW!!!! Love it.
post #41 of 410
Thread Starter 
I thought I would bring everyone up to date on what is happening around my theater build and show you a little of what I am doing around the house. As you might have noticed I am also in the middle of a home build. I cannot say the theater room has stalled because there are so many other decisions we are making during this process. This project took form 3 years ago when I purchased some acreage here in Sarasota to build a "family compound". We spent nearly 14 months laying out the property and designing our homes and garage. The garage was actually the first structure we designed as I have somewhat of a car collection and we needed a place to house all of the stuff from the homes we were selling. We had a guest house at our last home (nice to keep visitors out of our home) and we decided to put this feature in the garage. We knew we would need someplace to live during the builds. We did design our house and the garage with the same architecture. I wanted to build a real castle but practically took us to an Old World style of architecture. This picture below is the garage and we have a one bedroom apartment we are living in...about 600 sq ft. The short single car garage you see to the left of the bronze statue houses my temporary theater.



The picture is our home in progress and it will have the same color and stone detail of the garage. Right now we are working on stucco and in the next few weeks the roof will have the tile installed and we will begin applying the stone.



From the back of the property you can see the proximity of the garage to the house. The garage is where the wife will always be able to find me.


I am looking at making the media room design and construction a priority to everything else going on in the house...........I am acting as my own general contractor for the whole project. The next photo I want to share is the arch detail on the ceiling. I cut a circle out of plywood to show my wife what I was thinking........she called it a flying saucer and did not like the idea. What I wanted in its place is the round cylinder you see pictured so I could add a light feature......not sure what kind of light feature but you have to start somewhere. The 3 foot in diameter cylinder would be cut into the archs right in the center connecting point. Any ideas?



I just started building the stage and the columns to the left and right. Speaker cut outs may seem high but we can flip the tweeters and mids on my Genelec 1034's so the middle axis is right at ear level of the upper row of seats. the subwoofer will sit on the stage and the center channel speaker about it will be exposed. I am considering sound panels on the columns to left and right of stage. I will have 5 stone columns in the room so I need to start thinking about some acoustical management.


There are a lot of ideas going around in my head but i am certainly open to any comments. This is how I work......I don't get too far ahead of my design because I like to let the project build itself. thanks for looking.
post #42 of 410
Garage envy (and don't get me started on those speakers)
post #43 of 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGO2XS View Post

What I wanted in its place is the round cylinder you see pictured so I could add a light feature......not sure what kind of light feature but you have to start somewhere. The 3 foot in diameter cylinder would be cut into the archs right in the center connecting point. Any ideas?


Mark, have you considered using a Dome in the center of the ribs for a lighting effect? Premade ones can be purchased with a lighting cove or with preinstalled fiber optics.

I'd imagine you could find a diameter that would match the rise in the existing ribs at a given distance. Or it may look good if there is a reveal around the dome to highlight it at the intersection of the ribs.

This is just one of probably many sites.

http://www.ceilingdomes.com/ceilingd...ilingdomes.htm
http://www.ceilingdomes.com/ceilingdomes/fiberoptic.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGO2XS View Post

This is how I work......I don't get too far ahead of my design because I like to let the project build itself. thanks for looking.

Much the same approach I have taken with my theater.. Its proven to be Great for creativity.. Poor for expediency.

Keep us updated on your progress, we love pictures.

Brad
post #44 of 410
Thread Starter 
Brad, wow that site is cool. thank you so much for the idea!! I wanted fiber optics in the ceiling but I just don't have time to invest my time in that concept. Your suggestion give me a center piece for the ceiling arches and gives me the fiber optics. I thought about installing some mini led spots on the bottom of the arches and they could lead up to this feature.Got any more ideas shoot them this way
I am going to start posting more progress pictures starting this week.
post #45 of 410
Thread Starter 
We started wiring the surrounds yesterday. Because the center arch divides the front row of seating from the upper level of seating we decided to add another set of sides so I will have one set in line with the front row of seats and one set in line with the rear set of seats. Pictured here is the two speaker wires for the 2 side speakers for the left channel. I am using Tributaries bi-wire cable. I had a 200 foot roll I purchased about a year ago and unfortunately we ran out yesterday as I have been snipping some here and there to use other places. BUMMER.




Below I have a picture of one of my Genelec AIW26 active in wall speakers. You can see the speaker connections on top, one set for the woofer and one set for the tweeter. They have some pretty trick aluminum rails to keep the speakers suspended in the ceiling. There is also a removable grill not pictured. Each of the AIW26 has been factory calibrated to the RAM1 amplifier shipped with it. They are matched to each other by serial number and you are directed to hook the speaker up with a matching amplifier. These speakers are intended for use for the fronts speakers in an in-wall situation but we decided to use them for the surrounds. There will be two more installed for the rears for a total of 6.......2 rears, 4 sides.




The next picture shows one pair of the RAM1 mono block amplifiers with the rack mount kit. There will be 4 more mono amplifiers added to the system to power the surrounds. Looking at the fronts you can see the input sensitivity controls for bass roll off, bass tilt, and treble tilt so these babies can be tuned to any room or system. My secret amunition is a guy by the name of Mike Chafee, close personal friend, who is one of the finest tuners out there. People fly this guy out of the country to tune theater rooms.........he is awesome!!!! My favorite part of the manual states :" This equipment is capable of delivering Sound Presure levels in excess of 85 db, which may cause permanent hearing damage. That's what I'm talking about!!

post #46 of 410
Wow thats some equipment!
post #47 of 410
I'm a big fan of the "******* Garage" license plate. And the "Cadillac" golf cart.

Can I move into your garage? I promise you won't even know I'm there.

I'm very interested in your theater, but also your whole house distribution. I'd love to hear more about that. Are those racks going to be custom shelving or are they just housing for something like a Middle Atlantic half rack?

I wish I could do the same in my house, but it's a bit late for that. It also doesn't help that the neighborhood we're in is changing. It used to be a lot of mid-range homes in a low crime neighborhood. However, it borders an expanding rough neighborhood that's creeping closer and closer to us. The closer it gets, the more worthless all the cash we put into the house becomes for resale. Oh well. Maybe when we remodel our second home, "retirement home," in preparation for full-time living...
post #48 of 410
Thread Starter 
THANKS JTR7 , sorry about the sign appearing in the photo. When you have a garage like mine it is not uncommon for my friends to purchase garage oriented presents. Those are Cadillac Escalade 18" wheels on there.......we have a few golf carts around here.

Can I move into your garage? I promise you won't even know I'm there.

I have had quite a few offers to move in garage. There is a large picture window in the wall between the garage apartment and the garage and it is pretty nice to get up in the morning and see into the garage. I cant say I am excited about moving into the house.......there are only two things I need there, my wife and the theater room.

I'm very interested in your theater, but also your whole house distribution. I'd love to hear more about that. Are those racks going to be custom shelving or are they just housing for something like a Middle Atlantic half rack?

You busted me on the racks. I thought I would get by with the formica racks I built by installing some rack rails. However, I have decided to buy Middle Atlantic or equivalent (Snap AV) racks. I am reading the forum to see what other guys are using. It just makes it easier to install the wiring organizers and other accessories that go with the racks. I will post pictures of the details of the distribution of audio and video as I go. I am currently running (2) cat 6, (1) cat5e, and (1) RG6 coax to each tv location. For music distribution I am going with Sonos and although wireless I will be connecting each unit via cat5. I have the iPad and iPhones and it works with iTunes. The Sonos is very user friendly and something my wife can learn how to use.......anyway, I DONT LIKE WALL CLUTTER........I don't want a bunch of keypads on the walls. I was working in the house yesterday and my wife wanted some music on in the garage........I got a text, I pull out my iphone and 50 feet away I turn her music on......can't be any more convenient. Lutron is the lighting control and with the 7 button keypads there are only a few single gang wall plates in the biggest rooms. I installed Homeworks 8 in the garage and really enjoy it......lucky for me my Lutron dealer has no problem loading the software on my laptop so I can change the programming as I see fit.
post #49 of 410
Haven't heard anything in a while. Anything new on either front?
post #50 of 410
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR7 View Post

Haven't heard anything in a while. Anything new on either front?

thanks for checking in. Right now we are re-designing the screen wall. As a matter of fact we may be tearing down most of what we framed out of 2 x 4's you see posted on my thread. I thought I might be satisfied with sound panels on the (speaker) columns on either side of the screen and have it all blend in......... but, I want a wow factor when walking into the room with more interior design. Last week I met with our cabinet guy and we have started drawing some renderings for the columns and the center cabinet. I know we are going to be using a crackled finish and plan on introducing some metal in the design. I will post some of the designs in a few days with some updated pictures. I am not going to meet my drywall the first week of February deadline for sure. We have a place to live right next to the home we are building and I am not in a big hurry. However, my wife and I will have our 25th wedding anniversary in July and I want the house completed by then.
post #51 of 410
Thread Starter 
My theater build has been a little bit on hold. It started out with me tearing down my screen wall framing. I wanted to squeeze in a larger screen (hopefully a 12 ft wide smx 235:1), and I wanted to make the room more interesting using custom cabinetry on the screen wall to house the speakers. I am also on the verge of taking out the lutron system and put in a Vantage system. I have lutron lighting in other structures on property and like the keypads, ease of programing, and reliability but..................I want to combine my security, ip camera's, lighting, HVAC, and home audio control with one package. Any body have any thoughts on Vantage?
post #52 of 410
Wow.

Love this build - absolutley spectacular.

What do you do and how can I get your job!??!
post #53 of 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by IGO2XS View Post

My theater build has been a little bit on hold. It started out with me tearing down my screen wall framing. I wanted to squeeze in a larger screen (hopefully a 12 ft wide smx 235:1), and I wanted to make the room more interesting using custom cabinetry on the screen wall to house the speakers. I am also on the verge of taking out the lutron system and put in a Vantage system. I have lutron lighting in other structures on property and like the keypads, ease of programing, and reliability but..................I want to combine my security, ip camera's, lighting, HVAC, and home audio control with one package. Any body have any thoughts on Vantage?

I have a friend with a Vantage system. From what I've been told, it's reliable. Personally, I like the keypads on the Lutron system better, but that's not to say the Vantage keypads aren't attractive. Bear in mind you do fit less buttons per gang. If you want it all in one (and really one) package, Vantage is the way to go.

They use RTI for remotes. They have a mix. The family room and theater (can I even call it theater? I thought it was nice until I saw what's been done here. Now I can pick out at least a dozen things done wrong. And personally, I was never impressed with the audio in their theater) have the T2C, and the bedrooms have the T2+. I definitely prefer the T3 over the T2+.
post #54 of 410
best of the best! I love it!
post #55 of 410
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gareth_alien View Post

Wow.

Love this build - absolutley spectacular.

What do you do and how can I get your job!??!

thanks for the compliment, much more to come so stay tuned. sorry man, you can't have my job....need more dough to finish theater
post #56 of 410
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTR7 View Post

I have a friend with a Vantage system. From what I've been told, it's reliable. Personally, I like the keypads on the Lutron system better, but that's not to say the Vantage keypads aren't attractive. Bear in mind you do fit less buttons per gang. If you want it all in one (and really one) package, Vantage is the way to go.

They use RTI for remotes. They have a mix. The family room and theater (can I even call it theater? I thought it was nice until I saw what's been done here. Now I can pick out at least a dozen things done wrong. And personally, I was never impressed with the audio in their theater) have the T2C, and the bedrooms have the T2+. I definitely prefer the T3 over the T2+.

The remote of my choice is the ipad. These new guys I got hooked up with showed me some pretty cool programming they have done. I really like the idea of one package as you stated. I like not having to close one application (say lighting) to move to another application for camera's. I realize their keypads on fit 5 buttons but I guess you could have a 2 gang box with 2 keypads if you had a lot of switches in one area. I would miss the 7 button lutron keypads.
post #57 of 410
While the iPad is a nice touchpanel for whole home control, I'd be wary of using it in the theater.

1) It's backlight. The screen is so large as soon as you wake it up everybody will be distracted
2) No tactile buttons. You won't be able to change the volume without looking. I've got the Harmony 1100 and a Harmony 900. I definitely prefer the 900, and the 1100 even has volume and channel buttons (although I prefer the 1100's RF system. Logitech took a step backward with the one from the 900 when "upgrading" the 890). The iPad has 0 buttons for you to use. Each operation will require you look down.
3) Its size. It's so big. It is not going to fit in a cupholder, would have to balance on your lap or armrest. It's much easier to place a "candy bar" style remote in a cupholder or on an armrest.

That said, I love it as a whole house remote. Has a very Tony Stark feel (can I get his automation system PULEAAAASE?!?) to put it on counter while you're cooking or working and be able to change your whole home audio volume/track or to adjust the lights (or if you're really automated open the window shades).
post #58 of 410
I agree with JTR7 about tactile feedback when watching Cable or Satellite. The iPad as a primary controller is fine for some but not for everyone. We typically put a large panel and a hand held remote in every video zone. That way you have your "clicker" for channel surfing and your tablet for global control of the home. We like to use 1 way hand held remotes like the URC MX-900 or MX-980. Client has full control over all AV gear from them. The URC remotes communicate over Crestron gateways so they "plug" right into the rest of the system.

You can solve the brightness of the iPad a little by using a dark GUI on the iPad. The dark graphics will limit the amount of light put out. Here are some examples.

My template : http://www.guijaboard.com/store/gall...cal/ipad_ipod/

Victoria from GUIFX : http://www.guifx.com/images/product_...cr105-ipad.pdf

Victoria comes with a couple of different background graphics. The dark wood or Dark wash would be good for a theater setting where low light is required. Victoria is my absolute favorite GUI of all time.
post #59 of 410
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 39CentStamp View Post

You really cant go wrong with lutron or vantage if you intend to replace the existing homeworks system. I don't think its necessary to remove it unless you have other reasons besides thinking its outdated.

Homeworks can be controlled by many/most home automation products via RS232 or ethernet. Because of that you can leave it as is and full integrate it to the new system of your choice.

Vantage is a solid company. Their lighting system is very nice. I don't have direct experience with their new products. I would assume its on par with their lighting products. Years ago we were dealers for vantage and lutron and we had to pick one and drop the other. We chose lutron because the homeworks wireless products are bullet proof and because interior designers like the multitude of color options. Its one of the only lighting products that allow you to match keypads, light switches-dimmers, wall outlets and your low voltage data jacks. Another reason was their shades. There aren't any quieter or reliable on the market.

The new lutron products may be untested but the companies track record is very good. The new QS line will also be fully open to integration with other control systems.

If you were my client i would suggest you choose a control system like Crestron or AMX. I work for a Crestron dealer so i would propose Crestron over AMX but both are reliable.

Lutron Homeworks connects to these systems with a single Cat5 and can be fully integrated. Control is bi directional so you can use the lutron keypads to trigger events via the crestron processor just as easily as you can use the crestron keypads or ipads to trigger events on the lutron processor. That means that an "AWAY" button on your lutron keypad could arm the security system as well as set a lighting scene. The crestron or amx interface (keypads or iPads or hand held remotes etc) will be able to fully control the lutron system. Any programmable button on either system can send any command or group of commands to all of the other connected devices in the system.

Scheduling between the 2 systems can be integrated. So a 6AM alarm clock event in the master bedroom can open the shades, set a good morning lighting scene, adjust the room temp and turn on the TV's in the master bath and kitchen so you can watch the news.

If you have any additional questions feel free to contact me.


Thank you so much for this information and you really settled me down. My house build is being held up by the media room but I can't go on with drywall until I get my home automation completed. I know, I should have had this figured out in the beginning but......this forum has really given me an education and is a major part of me restructuring my original plan. I wish you lived in my area because this is the kind of support i need. I know what I want but I am over my head because of lack of knowledge so guys like you are really helping me out. I have a great electrician and a great Lutron installer. However they are both lacking in lighting design. Per your advice and before I rip out my Lutron I am going to call a local and reputable Crestron dealer and have them come over next week.
post #60 of 410
How'd the Crestron meeting go?

Any updates on the project front?
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