Official Sony Bravia KDL NX810 owners' thread (60NX810, 55NX810, 46NX810) - Page 105

Originally Posted by DCIFRTHS

I'm going to call them because I didn't receive a link or attachment with my online purchase...

Originally Posted by djbluemax1

I have the Sony glasses.

To the guy with questions about crosstalk,
Ghosting = after image trails from lcd panels with slow response rates
Crosstalk = the negative outlines you see on the left and right sides of a 3d image
Crosswalk = safe place to cross a busy street

Crosstalk is caused by a remnant of the residual right eye image being visible in the left eye lens. It's evident in most lcd displays because the current lcd panels still can't twist Off fast enough. In other words, when the left eye image is flashed on-screen, the right eye image hasn't completely faded out yet and is still partly visible when the left eye shutter opens. That's why if you close one eye, you see xtalk on only one side of the image. If you close the opposite eye, the xtalk is visible on the opposite side of the image.

Plasma Tv's have much faster refresh rates so xtalk is rarely an issue with them.

Max

Originally Posted by sbx007

Link still works..however it doesn't do much..give it a try a bit later. It could be scrapped.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/.../13/2010:30off

Originally Posted by djbluemax1

It has to do with the contrast difference in the image as to how obvious it is. An LCD panel's response time is determined by how long it takes to twist from full on to full off, so when a panel (or pixels in the panel) don't need to twist from full on to full off, they respond faster leaving less of an afterimage.

If you've watched Alice In Wonderland as well as Resident Evil:Afterlife in 3D, you'll note that REA has much less crosstalk. They also did a much better job of using various tricks to increase the perception of stereoscopic depth throughout the entire movie than in AIW.

BTW, ghosting and crosstalk are NOT the same thing.

Crosstalk is so termed from older nomenclature with old school telephone lines where lines could occasionally get 'crossed' and you would hear someone else's conversation crossing over your phone while you were speaking to someone else on what 'should' have been a private connection between you and someone else. In the US, telecommunications/telephone tech has been advanced enough so that only older folks may ever have experienced this phenomenon. I have actually experienced this in some phone calls while visiting some 3rd world countries though.

In the case of crosstalk, the right eye should optimally, only be seeing the right eye image and the left eye should only see the left eye image, but when the right eye sees both the right eye image and part of the left eye image, you are getting 'crosstalk' because the image from one eye has crossed into part of the image from the other eye. Crosstalk is a purely 3D phenomenon.

Ghosting on the other hand is a different phenomenon (although it shares the same root cause). Ghosting is visible on 2D images and is MUCH less prevalent in the current LCD panels today. Ghosting shows up in fast movement when the LCD panels have slow response times. When fast movement occurs, older LCD panels couldn't remove the after image fast enough and you would see 'ghostly' after images trailing the moving objects.

My first digital projector (AE700U) had significant problems with this. Fast movement would leave multiple after images, for instance in 'Lord Of The Rings', 'Fellowship Of The Ring', in the scene in the mines of Moria where they are running through the great hall (and the camera's viewpoint passes several huge columns/pillars), those pillars would leave 3-4 afterimages stuttering behind the actual pillars as they moved across the screen.

Panels that weer slow enough to have ghosting problems could never be used for 3D as the crosstalk would be unbearable. You wouldn't need the shutter glasses as it probably wouldn't make much difference in eliminating the doubled images.

Makes me wonder if the new 2011 line has TRUE 480Hz panels (not 240Hz panels with a scanning backlight). If they ARE fast enough to be true 480Hz panels, they could potentially reduce crosstalk to the point where it's no longer really visible for the most part.


Max

Originally Posted by dfran1

Thank for clearing this up for us!!

How do the visio 480 3D panels look then? If they still have it then the 2011 sets most likely will too?

Originally Posted by djbluemax1

The Vizio 480Hz panels are not TRUE 480Hz panels. They are 240Hz panels with a scanning backlight. By that token, the NX810 could also be touted as a 480Hz TV when Clear 1 (or was it Clear 2?) is turned on, but Sony chose not to play that game, and instead properly labels it a 240Hz set and it does use a true 240Hz panel.

I have not viewed 3D on the 3D '480Hz' Vizio, but from the owner's thread, it appears that crosstalk might actually be worse on that set than on the NX810 (and is definitely not better).


Max

Originally Posted by djbluemax1

Yes, I have watched 3D on the VT25. I'm not sure what material you were viewing on the VT25, but I saw little to no crosstalk while watching 2 different VT25's for a total of about 20-30 minutes.

Getting the salesmen to swap the player outputs between the VT25 and HX800 showed crosstalk where there was none on the VT25 (sales guy definitely wasn't keen on it).

The only thing that stopped me pulling the trigger on the VT25 was the lack of any form of frame interpolation on that set. If it had frame interpolation, it would have been a done deal, but I hate 24fps jitter and since most of the viewing material available these days is still 2D, I made the call for the NX810.

I might have actually ended up with the Samsung 8000 series plasma if I'd known that Samsung provides the option for frame interpolation not only on their LCD's but also on their plasma TVs. When I realized that the VT25 didn't have frame interpolation (because plasmas generally don't NEED it) I assumed (yeah, we know what they say about assuming) that I could only get frame interpolation with an LCD. Mistake on my part not doing enough research, and poor education on the salesmen's part (I had to explain what frame interpolation was. They had no clue, and as such didn't know enough to tell me that the Sammy plasmas DO have frame interpolation).


Max

Originally Posted by sbx007

I liked them both, but went w/ the 810 because of the monlith design and it seemed "more advanced technology". Combined with reading reviews all fingers pointed to the 810. My friend has an 810 so that infuenced me as well. I'd rather have the 3d emitter outside the TV. If you want to spend some time trolling the web you'll find the consensus is HX>NX>LX, and the HX isn't available in the 60 inches. Check out the lx900 thread. LX900 or 810, they're both nice.

Originally Posted by m34lnch


So are you saying that the picture on the HX800 is better but the design on the NX is better?

How is the HX800 picture better?

Originally Posted by m34lnch

So are you saying that the picture on the HX800 is better but the design on the NX is better?

How is the HX800 picture better?

Originally Posted by sbx007

No. What I'm saying is that from my experience when trolling the boards for recomendations, the general consensus is that as far as PQ goes, that's the pecking order..i.e as chdwil said the hx909>nxXXX>lx900. Picture Quality wise. I don't think I ever saw the HX800 or HX909 for that matter. I did see the lx900 and I liked the 810, just seemed to have more "pop"..just an opinion.

Originally Posted by Bruce M.

When it comes to crosstalk on a 3D image, can anybody explain why, on an NX810, the same movie, on what appear to be similar scenes (similar backgrounds, characters, etc.), can appear to have essentially no crosstalk and a great depth of field in some instances, and bad crosstalk in others? This happens for me on DirecTV and Blu Ray, but more on the former....

Originally Posted by broodwich

HX909 = Full array local dimming
NX810 = Edge lit with clustered dimming
LX900 = Edge lit, no local dimming

There should be better contrast ratios as you move up the list. That's why the NX has more "pop" than the LX.

Originally Posted by screwey

I received my 55NX810 from Sony Style a week ago. Noticed that it had the two "black dots" that were fairly visible. Coincidentally, the serial number started with 5 as the others were reported. Decided to contact Sony for a return, and they picked up the defective one today.

Sony's policy (today, it seems) is that the sets should pass in the mail, as they were unable to send out a new set prior to verification of receipt of the original set.

So, now I sit with no TV, no guarantees of receiving anything but another defective set...

Seriously rethinking the purchase, both the brand and the mode. I'll probably keep with Sony through this ordeal, based on the "combo" purchase. But, I'll certainly investigate other venues for further purchases.

Originally Posted by dojoman

I guess no one besides me have this problem. My remote respond very slow when I'm watching 3D movies, I know the remote isn't that great in general but it's extremely unresponsive in 3D. It's obviously interfering with the transmitter but anybody has the same issue?

Originally Posted by sbx007

But you can't get a 60 inch HX909

Originally Posted by dfran1

Sorry to hear this, do you have filters in the Sony glasses?

I have tried a bunch of settings to get rid of it myself with no luck, what we are seeing is when an object ( being a person or picture or something) is poping out of the screen, we see the background image of it also, now I did notice on the plasma, the picture was dark and could bearly notice it, on this set so far if you turn the brightness up it seems to wash out.

Do you agree that the 3D is clear at +2?
what seems to be happening at 0 is the background does not go into the tv and it looks washy ( I do not know how else to describe it), when it is supposed to.
I do not have that game is it a demo?
I am going to try to play with all the adjustments I can and let you know if anything gets it to minimum, I did see so far during the night it looks better, this is going to make it harder now we may need day/night settings.