Advice for Dream HT Equipment

This is purely my view....there are a lot of them, but like you, I had $40K and did a lot of research. This is what I came up with....

I LOVE the SMX ProCurv Screen 2.37:1. I'm pairing it with the JVC RS25 or as soon as Jason gets back to me - one of the newer, equivalent models. The JVC's look amazing to me... You'll get plenty of advice, but I love the perf screen model. It hides the speakers, gives a nice clean look to the room and I love movies and 2 channel and I can't tell the differenece in sound with the speakers behind the screen. SMX is great to deal with and Ruben is often on the forum helping with good solid advice. I am pairing the SMX and the JVC with a Prismasonic Anamorphic lens. I liked the Panamorph, but not worth it in my opinion. I like the fact that the Prismasonic has a "pass-through" versus having a sled that moves the lens back and forth when needed. Less moving parts in my opinon is better and the Prismasonic HD-5000R seems like it has it all. I don't have the lens "in house" yet, so this is purely based on recommendations and my research. There may be better lenses like the ISCO, but for my money, the Prismasonic is perfect for me.

I also love the Integra/Onkyo Pre/Pro's. They seem to have everything you need without going with a Anthem D2 or the like. I love my Onkyo 885. Though I did pair them with 2 Anthem Amps (MCA 50 and MCA 20). Could you spend more on both, sure, but I think for the best bang for the buck (and it's not a cheap buck for the 885 back then or the Anthem's) those are tops on my list. You will hear a lot of people that own the 885 of newer equivalent rave about it. I do too....

Oppo ranks #1 around here for a great CD/DVD/Blu-ray transport, plus it does DVD-A and SACD (which I love). Dollar for dollar it's the best I can find. The BDP-83 is great! It lacks some of the internet capabilities, but that's not a big deal for me, maybe it is for you.

Cabling - Blue Jeans is by far, in my opinion, the best around. Don't fall for all the hype around cables. Blue Jeans is where it is at. I have Blue Jeans for everything - HDMI's, Speaker, etc.

Speakers are so personal, that go with what you like and listen to them a lot prior to buying. I have the Paradigm Reference series and love them. I can say the 2 Velodyne DD-15's I have are awesome and I will bet anyone that they can listen to these in my theater and say anything different. They are tight, deep and musical also.

Lastly, I love my Xbox 360 as a Media Center Extender and use Media Center with Windows 7 and MyMovies for all my Audio/Video storage and playback needs. I paired that with the HP Windows Home Server and I love it. Backup, storage and much, much more...

Good luck!

To be frank - you're approaching this the wrong way, when you say you've "started building" how far along are you?

With a budget like that you should have engaged a pro designer to work it all out for you, thats a lot of coin to spend on gear to get the room wrong and end up with a terrible result.

With a budget like that soundproofing and acoustics should be up there as number 1 priority. Post that, you can then fill the room up with gear.

But:
- Curved screen is a must, with masking
- You'll need good DSP's for calibration
- For that sort of budget you could get a very nice setup by Procella (not sure of pricng in the US)

While I agree.. I hear this a lot and quite frankly can't believe it. I checked with a local professional installer and he wanted way more than what I could conceivably see spending. I like what I have so far, but let's take a look at the numbers and then see where a Pro could have come in.

Carpet: $3K
Acoustic Panels, FSK: $800
AV Equipment: $16K (Paradigm 100's with ADP 390's/CC-690) Onlyo Pre/Pro, Oppo BDP-83, Anthem Amps, 2 Velodyne DD-15's, Xbox360 and Wii)
Remote (URC MX-980): $500
Screen $2K
Projector: $6K
Anamorphic Lens: $2K
Framing (lumber, screws, etc.): $1,500
Sheetrock (2 layers of 5/8 including the small lobby): $3K
HVAC: $1,400
Electrical Installation: $1,200 with GrafikEye purchase included ($600)
Paint (A Pro Sprayed the room - I hate painting): $800
Middle Atlantic Rack with Accessories (lacing bars, etc.): $800
Middle Atlantic Custom Faceplates: $600
Lighting: $425
GreenGlue, RSIC Clips and Channel: $1,200
Cabling (PELV Cable, Speaker, HDMI, XLR's): $500
GOM: $175
Linacoustic: $160
OC703 for Bass Traps + Grill Cloth from Joann's: $130
Insulation: ???? can't remember and the stack of receipts is so thick - I'm not looking.
Much, much, more.. I didn't even mention miscellaneous hardware trips, velcro, electrical plates, conduit, etc.

I'm over $40,000 and I still haven't added in 8 Chairs or Trim/Wainscoting.

I also got most stuff at Wholesale prices or contractor pricing and searched for sales on nearly everything, so not sure what an installer could've added in the way of cheaper cost of equipment. Quite frankly, they all have relationships with specific vendors, so the comment that they design the room and then select equipment is bull. They design the room for the equipment they peddle, hence the lower cost on some of the equipment.

So would it have been worth someone to Design this and Manage the project for so little of what would be left in my budget - which quite frankly is ZERO? And what I mean by that is - what would the margin have to be for a Pro to take on the project.

Let's not get "professional installer" confused with a certified home theater designer. Not saying that will change the cost formula; but, as I've said before, pick your financial threshold of pain and then allocate that budget first toward things that cannot be changed later which will have a major impact on sound and video quality.

As to the OP. Obviously, I have a bias; but, I agree you're doing this a tad backwards. The fundamental characteristics of your room, seating locations, numbers of rows, etc., etc. will determine the minimum technical requirements for screen size, projector capability, speaker capability and then amplifiers. I don't know if your screen size was a diagonal or width measurement. If it is diagonal, you're looking at about 120" wide. If so, you're looking at about 1000 Lumens AFTER calibration.

Based upon the width of your room, you don't need a curved screen provided the throw distance of the projector will allow it to be located in the back of the room. As to the building process ... let your HVAC contractor know you'll need somewhere between 10,000 to 16,000 BTU's/hour cooling.

Exactly, a "certified home theater designer" would've doubled the price, if not tripled. I'm not in the Best Large Home Theater over $150,000 category.

Yet.....

Now, Mark. Why not?
Actually, I've done more sub $150k rooms than +150K rooms. Must be something wrong with my formula.

If I had A$50k, I could comfortably get it done, with a layout from Dennis ($600) and all the toys you're referring to....perhaps not a curved screen as they are stupidly expensive here $8k......now you're talking USD and I know for a fact you can get everything A LOT cheaper.....someone here on AVS got everything he needed except soundproofing measures to get a similar sized room sheeted for about US$3000....that was DIY though...round that up to say $15k for electrical, HVAC, soundproofing etc

That still leaves $35k for spend on seats and gear, so say $30k on gear....its not that hard......in saying that you'd need to sacrifice screen size as one that large needs a beefy projector

Hey KBlaw, welcome to the Forums. You're off to a good start with coming here and you've presented a good question, but not for the reason you think. As Dennis and others have pointed out, there's more pressing concerns for a dedicated HT space in your phase than what gear to get. In esssence things should work in a bit of an order...

First, do you really want a dedicated HT space. They're quite an investment, not very practical and TERRIBLE for resale value. That being said, it's a family decision for you and yours. If the answer is yes, then..........

Given the size of your space, determine with some degree of accuracy the seating requirements and the overall ergonomics of the space such as the clearance for doorways, seating distances and accessability, HVAC requirements, etc. These considerations will take the BULK of your time as there's lots to research here. You'll need an understanding of the relationship between viewing angles and screen size to the seating area's. Laying this out properly either in prints or software is a MUST if you wish to identify conflicts before they become expensive change orders down the road. Contractors HATE change orders and charge accordingly more to 'punish' than solve the problem......be warned! The HVAC requirements will need research. You can certainly find the info yourself and hire a contractor to do the install.

Acoustic treatments/ sound proofing isn't a MUST, but goes a long way towards the overall experience. There's ample info available here on the forums...probobly more pertinent as real world info than anywhere else. Be advised that soundproofing is labor intensive and requires specialized, expensive material. Judge your need accordingly. this may help you when thinking about point one above.

Once these things are basically planned out, there's TONS of equipment to meet your needs and that's the point. The AV gear is the most variable part of the installation, with each piece being the most optimal solution for the application as it applies to the space and use. Case in point would be your acoustically transparent screen....or can you even use one? Your seating needs may prevent it as there's not suitable distance from the first row of seating to the screen surface as AT screens will require an area behind them for the speaker system. A fixed frame screen might be the better option, who knows. The decision to trade off something in the design phase will be based on your need for audio nirvana. AT Screens do offer the better acousitcal experience, but there's excellent alternatives as well.

Now you could hire soneone like Dennis to figure out all of this for you and then hire a general contract to work from spec, or GC the job yourself. You'll still need to be responsible for sorting out your priorities and what you want as opposed to what you need or can afford. Communicating these needs is the foundation of a successful outcome. Be honest with yourself, and just like your relationship with your doctor, be honest with your designer. The principle speaks for itself. Who lies to their Doctor?!

A basic layout with accurate dimensions would be helpful here if you don't wind. Take a look at seat options for sizing and clearances. An overhead view is essental with a profile showing seat/riser and stage heights helpful as well.

Overall, if the question is based on $50k for electronic equipment and interconnects, no labor......you're absolutely fine. The PJ and screen are obviously primary but as i posted earlier, neither can be guesstimated without measurements!

If you're not that fussed about soundproofing, at least get your builder to make an isolated double studd wall for the room, with seperate ceiling joists sitting on that. Then just do double dry with green glue....thats not a huge expense and will provide you with a better structure then just attaching it to the rest of the dwelling.

Refer Ted White's site www.soundproofingcompany.com

DONT speak with your local AV shop about room design/acoustics unless they're appropriately qualified....most are just dressed up gear resellers.

If you're embarking on such a large build just give Dennis a call.....at least talk through some options with him, that'll give you a good head start, regardless of how you end up doing it

To give you some idea of the complexities, have a read of my (now redundant) build thread, its got a load of quotes from Dennis, Ted and a few others on a range of issues......really only just the tip of the iceberg though

Sound proofing and sound isolation are two different things. Spend some time looking into both. They will have a VAST impact on the theater experience in your house.

With that size room, I'd definitely go for speakers behind the screen. You don't need to sacrifice a ton of viewing space to have the speakers behind the screen either.

Will the room be completely closed off during viewing?

With that sort of budget I would certainly be employing someone like Dennis to get the room done right the first time. Spend the money on things that will the expensive to change later.

A couple of items for thought.

Sound isolation is often viewed by the consumer as having the objective of not disturbing the peace and quiet of others in the home. The minimal sound isolation suggested for an audio space is to reduce noise within the room itself. A quiet residence typically has an ambient noise level of 33-35dB. The softest sound on a recording is 22dB. The objective is therefore to reduce the ambient noise in your room to something below 22dB. The incremental cost to achieve this in terms of materials is very insignificant. The attention to detail with respect to HVAC noise (air flow) is important and again, not costly ... just requires good planning. As well, attention needs to be paid to equipment noises in the room. If the room cannot be designed with an NR or NC of at least 21, the noise problem becomes a nasty beast. To hear low level dialog and subtle sound effects, you'd need to raise the volume so the softer sounds on the sound track are played back above ambient. Going from 22dB to 25dB is a doubling, 25dB to 28dB another doubling, 28dB to 31dB another doubling, and so on (the doubling is also a doubling of amplifer output). At the lower levels, this is not an issue; however, normal dialog and dramatic loud scenes within the sound track become so loud as to be uncomfortable and can lead to clipping and other distortions as your equipment is taxed. Sound isolation is an important consideration and will significantly impact dialog intelligibility. The two more common complaints which lead to a room not being used are inadequate ventilation and cooling (even in the dead of winter) and the room being too loud for comfort. For this level of sound isolation, materials costs can be lost in the rounding error. However, the sequence of construction is different than you or your contractor might expect.

In Room, In Wall, On Wall speakers become somewhat not relevent since anything in the room from lights to speakers will not penetrate the drywall in any case (if correctly done).

On the screen size issue. Sitting close to a small screen has the same visual impact as sitting further from a large screen. With multiple rows of seats, in order to obtain nearly equal SPL levels from row to row, you do want to maximize the distance from the screen and speakers to the first row. This all become a reiterative process. At the same time, and for the same reason, with three rows of seating you'll be looking at four side surround speakers and two rear speakers.

What is the currently designed floor to ceiling height in the room?

I will send you a PM with my contact information.