3D on Samsung 1080p DLP with Mitsubishi 3DA-1 and no Gefen - Page 33

Ok I will get you that sometime today

Another 6187 hacked here! Worked perfectly the first time, thanks for the fantastic write up!

I have a very complicated setup too...

TivoHD, HTPC, HD DVD, and BD Audio (Panny 300) -> Onkyo 606

Onkyo 606, BD Video, Comcast box (on demand) -> Monoprice 4x1 HDMI switch with toslink audio output (toslink -> CD input on the Onkyo for the Comcast box audio (5.1))

Monoprice Switch -> 3DA-1 -> Samsung 6187.

And it all works perfectly! (Thank goodness for my Harmony 900 to keep them all straight!) This was a lot simpler before I wanted 3d TV content.

First extension block in the post did not work second one with 24hz kinda worked until later when espn3d played xgames I tried to watch and got error - this program is in 720p and this tv does not support 720p 3d. So it is closer it does see a 3d tv but not all the resolutions. To follow is the EDID from the HDMI 1 input on the AVR that the directv box is hooked to I have made sure STB is set to accept 720p with native on also tried native off in 1080 and so on nothing helped.

Monitor
Model name............... VSX-1020
Manufacturer............. Pioneer
Plug and Play ID......... PIO0000
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2010, ISO week 0
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.3
Input signal type........ Digital
Color bit depth.......... Undefined
Display type............. RGB color
Screen size.............. 160 x 90 mm (7.2 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... 1 (CEA-EXT)
-------------------------
DDC/CI................... Not supported

Color characteristics
Default color space...... Non-sRGB
Display gamma............ 2.20
Red chromaticity......... Rx 0.640 - Ry 0.340
Green chromaticity....... Gx 0.300 - Gy 0.620
Blue chromaticity........ Bx 0.150 - By 0.060
White point (default).... Wx 0.291 - Wy 0.300
Additional descriptors... None

Timing characteristics
Horizontal scan range.... 30-70kHz
Vertical scan range...... 59-71Hz
Video bandwidth.......... 150MHz
CVT standard............. Not supported
GTF standard............. Not supported
Additional descriptors... None
Preferred timing......... Yes
Native/preferred timing.. 1920x1080p at 60Hz
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 148.500 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1089 1125 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #1....... 1920x1080i at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported
720 x 400p at 70Hz - IBM VGA
640 x 480p at 60Hz - IBM VGA
800 x 600p at 60Hz - VESA
1024 x 768p at 60Hz - VESA
1280 x 1024p at 60Hz - VESA STD

EIA/CEA-861 Information
Revision number.......... 3
IT underscan............. Supported
Basic audio.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:4:4.............. Supported
YCbCr 4:2:2.............. Supported
Native formats........... 1
Detailed timing #1....... 1280x720p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "1280x720" 74.250 1280 1390 1430 1650 720 725 730 750 +hsync +vsync
Detailed timing #2....... 720x480p at 60Hz (16:9)
Modeline............... "720x480" 27.000 720 736 798 858 480 489 495 525 -hsync -vsync

CE video identifiers (VICs) - timing/formats supported
1920 x 1080p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1) [Native]
1920 x 1080i at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1280 x 720p at 60Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
720 x 480p at 60Hz - EDTV (16:9, 32:27)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1920 x 1080p at 24Hz - HDTV (16:9, 1:1)
1440 x 480p at 60Hz - DVD (16:9, 16:27)
2880 x 480p at 60Hz - Console (16:9, 8:27)
NB: NTSC refresh rate = (Hz*1000)/1001

CE audio data (formats supported)
LPCM 2-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
LPCM 8-channel, 16/20/24 bit depths at 32/44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
AC-3 6-channel, 640k max. bit rate at 32/44/48 kHz
DTS 7-channel, 1536k max. bit rate at 44/48/88/96 kHz
SACD 6-channel at 44 kHz
DD+ 8-channel at 44/48 kHz
DTS-HD 8-channel, 16-bit at 44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz
DVD-A 8-channel at 44/48/88/96/176/192 kHz

CE speaker allocation data
Channel configuration.... 7.1
Front left/right......... Yes
Front LFE................ Yes
Front center............. Yes
Rear left/right.......... Yes
Rear center.............. No
Front left/right center.. No
Rear left/right center... Yes
Rear LFE................. No

CE vendor specific data (VSDB)
IEEE registration number. 0x000C03
CEC physical address..... 3.2.0.0
Supports AI (ACP, ISRC).. Yes
Supports 48bpp........... No
Supports 36bpp........... No
Supports 30bpp........... No
Supports YCbCr 4:4:4..... No
Supports dual-link DVI... No
Maximum TMDS clock....... 165MHz
Video latency (p)........ -1ms
Audio latency (p)........ -1ms
Video latency (i)........ -1ms
Audio latency (i)........ -1ms
HDMI video capabilities.. Yes
EDID screen size......... No additional info
3D formats supported..... Not supported
Data payload............. 030C0032008021E0000000008000

CE video capability data
CE scan behavior......... Not supported
IT scan behavior......... Not supported
PT scan behavior......... Not supported
RGB quantization range... Not supported
YCC quantization range... Not supported

CE colorimetry data
xvYCC709 support......... No
xvYCC601 support......... No
sYCC601 support.......... No
AdobeYCC601 support...... No
AdobeRGB support......... No
Metadata profile flags... 0x00

Report information
Date generated........... 1/30/2011
Software revision........ 2.52.0.857
Data source.............. Real-time 0x0011
Operating system......... 6.1.7600.2

Raw data
00,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,FF,00,41,2F,00,00,01,01,01,01,00,14,01,03, 80,10,09,78,0A,CF,9B,A3,57,4C,9E,26,
0F,4A,4C,A1,08,00,81,80,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,01,00, 01,00,02,3A,80,18,71,38,2D,40,58,2C,
45,00,A0,5A,63,00,00,1E,01,1D,80,18,71,1C,16,20,58,2C,25,00, A0,5A,00,00,00,9E,00,00,00,FD,00,3B,
47,1E,46,0F,00,0A,20,20,20,20,20,20,00,00,00,FC,00,56,53,58, 2D,31,30,32,30,0A,20,20,20,20,01,74,
02,03,43,F1,48,90,05,04,03,20,00,0F,24,3B,09,7F,07,0F,7F,07, 15,07,50,3E,1E,C0,4D,02,00,57,06,00,
5F,7E,01,67,7E,00,77,1F,03,83,4F,00,00,6E,03,0C,00,32,00,80, 21,E0,00,00,00,00,80,00,E2,00,00,E3,
05,00,00,01,1D,00,72,51,D0,1E,20,6E,28,55,00,A0,5A,00,00,00, 1E,8C,0A,D0,8A,20,E0,2D,10,10,3E,96,
00,A0,5A,00,00,00,18,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00, 00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,40

Is putting a full Mitsubishi edid going to be bad for the tv instead of just and edited one? I don't think ps3 showed 720 but didn't think of it because only use for blu-ray I'm an xbox 360 guy for games

Hey PlumB,
+1 with the guys about your time and effort!!!

Are you open to paypal donations/contributions at all???

Also,
I ran into the same exact 3D not detected scenario from my DirecTV receiver and Sony BDP-S570 player on my Sammy A650 DLP when trying to use a Sima VS-560 Composite/Component/HDMI switcher and I already sent it back figuring the switcher was screwing with the EDID and that there wasn't any work-around.
I called Sima's tech support who are really helpful and they said it probably isn't going to work but that they hadn't started researching 3D yet for any of their units but they're planning to dive in to 3D compliance and such later this year.
When my older switcher started having component output and up-conversion issues they were great to work with for repairs and it was very inexpensive to fix. Their older models' power supply units have a bad reputation but I put it on a big battery backup unit with auto-voltage regulation years ago (along with my TV and AVR) and all of the rare reset anomolies vanished and it's always done exactly what I wanted so I figured I'd stick with it and just upgrade, but no 3D joy when I tried...

My older model H/K AVR isn't HDMI at all and before my 3D quest I was previously using an older model composite/component-only version of that same switcher and liked how well it worked, plus I had also chosen that newer model of switcher because of its' coax/optical digital audio outputs for the basic DTS and DD5.1 audio that the manufacturer says it grabs/decodes from the HDMI stream and passes out the coax/optical audio port so I wouldn't need a new AVR for basic 5.1 listening as the newer AVR's that I really like aren't in my budget right now but the cost of that switcher easily was...

Based on the above posts I'm now wondering if it truly was the switcher itself causing the "no 3D devices detected" type messages from my DirecTV receiver and Sony BDP or maybe something the 3DA-1 might've been doing instead?

Oh, and I haven't caught up with my Sammy Plasma 3D-Ready buddy yet but as soon as I do I'll post his EDID and see what you think.

finally received my IOGEAR switch:
http://www.iogear.com/support/manual/GHDMIAS4_QSG.pdf

here is the setup the worked for me. I connected to the HDMI switch output to the 3DA-1 Adapter input. The 3DA output, I connected to the TV (hdmi/dvi 3) and rename to PC. I also have a new directv dvr connected to the switch input 1 and the ps3 connected to the switch input 2. The 3D media is working for both the PS3 and Directv!

Well I was doing a bit of research on some things. I looked at an article on Tom's Hardware regarding Blu Ray 3d on the PC and the article is here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...er,2636-5.html

To cut to the chase, are they saying our 3d viewing is not HD quality? I mean using their math, and they do not come out and say it, it seems they imply our checkerboard experience is less than HD and and if I infer from what they are saying correctly then our refresh rate is 30Hz? I do not know and this is why I am asking.

I do know that my 3d movies look great on my Sammy HL61A750. Here is an excerpt from the thread:

"There are other commercially available TVs that can display Blu-ray 3D. The problem is that these options are limited to half-resolution output. Let's go over them quickly:

3D Checkerboard DLP Displays

This is a format used on some Samsung and Mitsubishi DLP TVs. It is essentially a variant of alternate-frame sequencing, requiring the same kind of LCD shutter glasses.

Even though these TVs have been sold as 3D-ready models, they aren't capable of full 1080p resolution because they aren't yet equipped with the HDMI 1.4 specification and can't accept dual 1080p video streams. These TVs cannot handle the bandwidth required for full-resolution, dual-stream 1080p video, but they work around this limitation with the checkerboard 3D format.

The checkerboard technique integrates both stereoscopic views into a single frame of video. Each view occupies alternate pixels of the same image in a checkerboard pattern, so each view uses half the total resolution without losing any complete vertical or horizontal lines of video. The end result is a fairly good 3D image, considering each eye only receives half-resolution, but it still doesn't hold up well to full-resolution solutions like Nvidia's 3D Vision."

So, not that I care about what they have to say as my viewing experience is good to go in my book. Just wondering about the validity and other opinions and observations about this. If this is OT I apologize but I feel this is right on target with this thread because this is our desired result.

As they say it is what it is. I am extremely happy with the picture quality of DLP checkerboard
Also this technology does not have ghosting which other 3D technologies may have.

I fully agree and am happy too, especially since I never bought this TV with 3d in mind. Just wondering what it really is. I just know it works, and very well too.

Paul,
From what I've heard from people I know who tried them first before opting for an IR setup, try some of the cheaper brands of DLP-Link glasses if you want to see some ghosting on a DLP TV. Some of 'em do work great, especially in dark rooms, but some are absolutely horrible for ghosting and rainbows and haziness and other issues that IR glasses don't have but that's a whole other debate.

Hey Mike,
Think of it like this...
We have 120Hz Samsung DLP TV's specifically for the whole 3D-Ready thing, to give us the TWO 60Hz images simultaneously which is how the TV creates the "stereo" 3D picture from the 3D source content...
If an TV can't do 120Hz it typically doesn't support the modern 3D content at all.
I believe you'll find that ALL of the Samsung and Mitsubishi "3D-Ready" DLP sets are 120Hz for that very reason...
So no, it's NOT 30Hz.

The one exception seems to be the Samsung 3D-Ready Plasma's but we're digging into that now...

Those same nay-sayers will also try explain to you how your 3D experience max's out at 720 because of the two pictures being either SBS or T/B and how checkerboard works in a similar manner which allegedly cuts the overall resolution in half when they do their number crunching and try to explain how inferior our TV's are...

I'm sure in theory they may have a mathematical justification but I have to tell you that I just watched the same movies on my buddy's brand new $2,400 Samsung C8 Series 55" LED Slimline 1080p 3D TV and also watched them on my other buddy's brand new $1,400 73" Mitsu 73638 DLP after we all watched them on my 2008 era measley little 50" Samsung DLP TV 3 weeks earlier and not only was I not any more impressed with the $2,400 state of the art LED/LCD TV, my little old 50" Sammy looked so good and impressive to the two of those guys that THEY chose to buy 3D TV's based on what they saw on my old "obsolete" checkerboard DLP and one of them actually CHOSE DLP over LED/LCD because he truly liked how mine looked so much better than that brand new Samsung LED 3DTV... But at least all of us can use each other's 3D glasses!

Essentially, I'm sure my terminology is totally wrong and my ability to "proof the theory" is basically non-existent but I think what they were trying to say is that the "frame sequential" (or is it "frame stacked"?) 3D format produced by today's latest 3D Blu-Ray players is the optimum and true 1080p 3D format and the others are inferior for various reasons, to which I say this... "WHATEVER!!!"
I'm not dead-set on DLP but it handled SD content far better (so much smoother and really clear overall) than anything else I saw at the local B&M stores when I was TV shopping, it looked amazing on HD content, and on top of all that the price was right...
So the fact that here we are 2 years later and I'm watching beautiful 3D content off of new channels on my DirecTV receiver that fills the room and sucks me into the 3D program via my 2+ year old 50" DLP TV, I couldn't be happier with it no matter how "inferior" or "obsolete" the MATH says it is...

BUT... that being said, ESPN 3D has great 3D depth but the image quality is simply mediocre in most 3D events as they're starting with 720p and then trying to 3D it and when you compare the PQ of that 720p source to something off a 3D Blu-Ray on my new Sony BDP or even a 1080i or 1080p documentary or music performance off the other DirecTV 3D channels, the ESPN stuff has great 3D depth but just can't compare for overall PQ, especially when it comes to overall focus and depth of field. It ends up looking like someone took an SD TV and added really good 3D to it which is a bit disappointing to me for a sports network...

The one thing that differs in all of this is the 120Hz LCD's who needed that doubled refresh rate just to keep up with the Plasma's and 60Hz DLP sets.
The motion blur factor on a 60Hz LCD is horrible, especially compared to a 60Hz DLP or Plasma of the same era.
Ours weren't 120Hz to fix motion blur problems and keep up with the jones, they were 120Hz to lead the way to 3D technology. Simple as that.

This is the same debate that takes place in active vs. passive displays. Active uses glasses that sync like ours. Passive uses polarized glasses and the resolution is cut in half. The proof is in the pudding. There is a lot more to picture quality than pixels or resolution. I find that the 3D picture on my Samsung DLP is superior to most other displays that I have looked at.

We don't lose any resolution from 3D broadcast on TV in the side-by-side format like on n3D and ESPN 3D, right?

Plumb,

When I tried the mits. ones that u posted i got nothing didn't work on AVR of without. All I got on the TV was format unsupported.

Sorry the message on the tv said unsupported format did not work in 2d or 3d hooked direct or to the avr I didn't get edid because I thought it didn't work so didn't need it would you like to see the edid of avr using that mitsubishi edid

Those that have issues with the 720p SBS from their direct TV box? Can't you just set the box to display 1080i on everything? Then you get 1080 SBS which works right?

Didn't work for me I got the message that the tv didnt support 720p

Plumb,

Thanks again I will try the new edid maybe tonight but probably tomorrow when we are snowed in

Has anyone here ordered the Mitsu/Samsung kit and tried it WITHOUT updating your EDID?

Its kind of sad to see the posts slowing down. I flashed my 67a750 in about 2 minutes and now I am waiting on my ultraclear dlp link glasses which I hope to have by this weekend. Thanks to all who contributed and entertained my ocd for around a month. Plum B thanks a million.

I agree, sort of sad that this terrific thread is dying. I finally got my extra glasses yesterday and for the first time the whole family sat down and watch an entire feature in 3D (Shrek). It was awesome, and all thanks to this thread!

Well, this is now a "dead" method since the release of the 3dc-100s. I am glad I went this route (EDID flash with 3da1), as the adapter still isn't out as a stand-alone product and the kit is way overpriced at $450.

After playing MotoroStorm before work this morning I can say it was worth the risk and the wait. AWESOME!!!

As the title says, this method still may have utility especially in light of the price of the new kit. Perhaps the older kit will become a closeout (sell cheap)and from what I can see nobody has harmed their TVs changing the EDID.

Also this EDID change might be what I need to get my HTPC running 3d on my HL61A750 without any tridef or whatever additional software might be needed. You see I just started a tial version of the latest powerdvd10 and I am sooo close to getting it going.

Well maybe not but I can get 3d going via the powerdvd using nvidia card. It does put a signal out that my TV sees and allows it to set 3d mode, but appears to be blurry and not right. (EDIT: no matter what I do in mode settings on TV or Pdvd) I somehow believe if my TV had one of the Mitsu EDIDs from a unit on the approved Nvidia list it would be a go without anything else.

Now I am not sure about this and that is why I am posting here. Plumb appears to be a very clever guy with these sets so here I am as opposed to posting in the gaming or HTPC section. I would appreciate any input from anyone as this is still 3d on a Samsung DLP.

BTW, I have spent the last 2 days working this and trying to get 3d on vudu from my Panny 100. Vudu told me today that it will be available for Panny checkerboard units at some time in the future so us Samsung owners can look forward to this content availability hopefully sooner rather than later. They are just getting started but from what I see it looks very promising what with trailers and previews.

Anyway, for anyone who can help with the HTPC to Samsung 3d thing, here is my system specs of interest: MSI GTX460 Hawk and suitable blu ray drive. The rest easily surpasses powerdvd specs/test for 3d to TV and therefore not worthy of mention and not an issue. All drivers and versions fully up to date. (Oh, Win 7/64)

Sorry for the wind, hope some of the info was helpful. Any ideas on the best way to proceed? I am not above buying the new Mitsu kit but just wonder if I will still be looking at the not approved device problem from the Nvidia side. All suggestions appreciated but it seems the EDID change to my TV is the cheapest way to go. TIA, this is still a great thread with the EDID info. Before I had no idea what an EDID was, now I is one JK.

a
At present you still can save a lot of money by getting the Mitsubishi only kit and modifying the EDID. This may change if Mitsubishi allows others to sell the kit and offers the adapter as stand alone item.

I'll be back looking through this thread if the 3da-1s still has the same issues passing audio through HDMI 1.3. I'd be pressing to see if I could flash my samsung to accept 7.1 audio, load this into a gefen and then revert my samsung to stock. I'd place the gefen after the 3da-1 in front of my receiver

It looks like Plumb has been playing with this already. I have powerstrip but have never hauled my computer out into theater room to attempt the EDID write.

If there was a little more 3D content (no 3d cable where I am) at a better price I would have done the flash.