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A little news on "Wish You Were Here" SACD - Page 5

post #121 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomerJau View Post

Q&A with legendary Pink Floyd engineer Andy Jackson:



SDE: Why no 5.1 mix of The Wall on the Immersion set?

AJ: There is no 5.1 mix of the Wall at this point, potentially it could be done, presumably by James [James Guthrie], but he's a busy boy! I think that a 5.1 of the album is on James's schedule somewhere, but I don't know any more [than that].



So they're too busy to add a 5.1 mix to the over $100 Immersion box? What does this mean- people should wait for the super-duper Immersion set when they finally get around to adding a 5.1 mix?
post #122 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

So they're too busy to add a 5.1 mix to the over $100 Immersion box? What does this mean- people should wait for the super-duper Immersion set when they finally get around to adding a 5.1 mix?

It's less about time and more about cost. That response is more for diplomacy and public relations. Guthrie would charge a couple hundred thousand to mix it for surround and no one wants to pay that in today's music climate.
post #123 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
It's less about time and more about cost. That response is more for diplomacy and public relations. Guthrie would charge a couple hundred thousand to mix it for surround and no one wants to pay that in today's music climate.

God knows Floyd doesn't have the money to pay for that.
post #124 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
It's less about time and more about cost. That response is more for diplomacy and public relations. Guthrie would charge a couple hundred thousand to mix it for surround and no one wants to pay that in today's music climate.
They ('Floyd or the record company?) just paid to have MCH mix for WYWH so why not spend it for The Wall? If there was a SACD only release of The Wall I'm sure the cost for the MCH mix would be paid down pretty quickly. Also I'm curious as to how you came up with the figure for the cost of a MCH mix. I'm sure it is expensive and very time consuming to do a MCH mix. But it just seems like alot when you think of some of the MCH SACD releases available that I'm sure did not sell very well.

Bill
post #125 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

They ('Floyd or the record company?) just paid to have MCH mix for WYWH so why not spend it for The Wall? If there was a SACD only release of The Wall I'm sure the cost for the MCH mix would be paid down pretty quickly. Also I'm curious as to how you came up with the figure for the cost of a MCH mix. I'm sure it is expensive and very time consuming to do a MCH mix. But it just seems like alot when you think of some of the MCH SACD releases available that I'm sure did not sell very well.

The surround mix for Wish You Were Here was completed years ago, back in 2005 or so. It was supposed to follow the release of Dark Side Of The Moon on SACD. The music market was much, much healthier back then and enabled the label to spend over $100,000 on the surround mix. In today's economic reality, where packaged music sales are way down, the labels are much more cautious.

Sure, Roger or David could probably pay for a new surround mix out of their spare change.
post #126 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

The surround mix for Wish You Were Here was completed years ago, back in 2005 or so. It was supposed to follow the release of Dark Side Of The Moon on SACD. The music market was much, much healthier back then and enabled the label to spend over $100,000 on the surround mix.

Not only that, but back in 2005, there was optimism that hirez surround-sound was the next great thing - and we all know how that worked out!

To me, it is simple math. Would an Immersion set of The Wall sell incrementally higher with a 5.1 mix versus without one? Clearly, the record company feels not enough to cover the cost of the extra mix (although $100,000 seems awfully high). Certainly I will not be buying this set without a surround mix, so that's one!
post #127 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Certainly I will not be buying this set without a surround mix, so that's one!

I'm two on that list. Let's start a boycott!
post #128 of 378
Anyone going to he Rocky Mountain Audiofest will be able to preview the upcoming 5.1 mix. I'm sure they'll have some for sale too.



post #129 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

Anyone going to he Rocky Mountain Audiofest will be able to preview the upcoming 5.1 mix. I'm sure they'll have some for sale too.

I'm sure WYWH will sound excellent at the show. But I can't see how they can offer WYWH to sell when the release date is 11/07/11.

Bill
post #130 of 378
ATC speakers look awesome
post #131 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Because the Pink Floyd brand is a money-making machine. I suspect the reason we haven't seen the WYWH SACD yet is internal politics between the surviving Floydians and EMI. The albums licensed out to those labels have limited commercial potential at this stage in the artists' careers.

Totally agree.
post #132 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ti-triodes View Post

Anyone going to he Rocky Mountain Audiofest will be able to preview the upcoming 5.1 mix. I'm sure they'll have some for sale too.

I was at RMAF today (Friday) and went over to hear it. In a word-awesome! They used a large conference room as opposed to most of the demos that were in a small hotel rooms. Five identical full range ATC speakers were used, without any separate subwoofers. In that room, with those speakers, the sound stage was huge. Lots of information was routed to the rear surrounds, as it should be in this application, at least in my opinion. The volume knob was turned up to eleven. Amazingly, there were just a handful of people listening while I was there on a Friday afternoon. One problem is that the main RMAF is held at the Marriot, while the WYWH demo is over a mile away at the Hyatt Regency. While the parking lot at the Marriot was full, I was able to park for free across the street. But the Marriot charges $5, and there isn't any free parking nearby. Oh yes, they weren't selling any WYWH SACDs.
post #133 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post

I was at RMAF today (Friday) and went over to hear it. In a word-awesome! They used a large conference room as opposed to most of the demos that were in a small hotel rooms. Five identical full range ATC speakers were used, without any separate subwoofers. In that room, with those speakers, the sound stage was huge. Lots of information was routed to the rear surrounds, as it should be in this application, at least in my opinion. The volume knob was turned up to eleven. Amazingly, there were just a handful of people listening while I was there on a Friday afternoon. One problem is that the main RMAF is held at the Marriot, while the WYWH demo is over a mile away at the Hyatt Regency. While the parking lot at the Marriot was full, I was able to park for free across the street. But the Marriot charges $5, and there isn't any free parking nearby. Oh yes, they weren't selling any WYWH SACDs.

Would love to be able to hear the album on that system. Exactly why I'd like to get a pair of LS9's for side surrounds, 5 channel hi rez. Alas, I'm broke.
post #134 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skimanfz1 View Post

I was at RMAF today (Friday) and went over to hear it. In a word-awesome! They used a large conference room as opposed to most of the demos that were in a small hotel rooms. Five identical full range ATC speakers were used, without any separate subwoofers. In that room, with those speakers, the sound stage was huge. Lots of information was routed to the rear surrounds, as it should be in this application, at least in my opinion. The volume knob was turned up to eleven. Amazingly, there were just a handful of people listening while I was there on a Friday afternoon. One problem is that the main RMAF is held at the Marriot, while the WYWH demo is over a mile away at the Hyatt Regency. While the parking lot at the Marriot was full, I was able to park for free across the street. But the Marriot charges $5, and there isn't any free parking nearby. Oh yes, they weren't selling any WYWH SACDs.

Not entirely true. The 5 speakers seen and heard at the RMAF demo were all ATC SCM150A-SL units. They did sound awesome! However, what was not seen (hidden behind the sound diffusers) were 2 ea. ATC C1 subwoofers. I spent some time speaking to the sound technician running the demo (he also assisted James Guthrie during the 5.1 remixing of WYWH!) and he told me he spent 2 days tuning the demo room using the myriad of sound diffusers seen. When I told him how good the room sounded he confided there was a "slight dip" from 80 to 30 Hz. He also told me there is serious discussion by the remaining band members on remixing "The Wall" in 5.1 surround.

By the way, the SCM150A-SL speakers are what James Guthrie used in his studio during the 5.1 surround remix of of WYWH to be released Nov. 7. There was a sign on top of the speakers indicating normal list price was $30,500/pair but the show special was $20,000/pair! In my humble opinion, they are worth every penny . . .

Here's a link: http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/scm150.php
post #135 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Guthrie would charge a couple hundred thousand to mix it for surround and no one wants to pay that in today's music climate.

Sorry, just wanted to pick this up again. Do you have inside information that this is the case, or are you speculating? Reason I ask is that I cannot imagine King Crimson/Fripp could afford this amount given the likely sales of their surround remasters, so presumably Steven Wilson is charging much less? Frankly, I'd have thought that a surrond mix would cost FAR less than a couple of hundred thousand.
post #136 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post

Sorry, just wanted to pick this up again. Do you have inside information that this is the case, or are you speculating? Reason I ask is that I cannot imagine King Crimson/Fripp could afford this amount given the likely sales of their surround remasters, so presumably Steven Wilson is charging much less? Frankly, I'd have thought that a surrond mix would cost FAR less than a couple of hundred thousand.

Just had this same conversation with forum member "drhook" about this Saturday while listening to Court of the Crimson King DVD-A. If Guthrie is that damned expensive hire Fripp to do the mix. He is doing an amazing job, they are doing all their albums, Floyd has to have more money than Crimson...right? Not sure what the hold up is, and while were at it lets get Animals, Meddle, Piper, Saucerful, and everything else started. Great now I'm fired up...
post #137 of 378
Frankly, I don't buy for a moment that Guthrie is in fact that expensive. Nick Davis took approximately 2 years to remix all of the Genesis back catalog, so even accounting for The Wall being a double album, we're talking what, 2 months working time to complete the mix. At $100K, that means an annual running rate of $600K? If really true, I picked the wrong profession.
post #138 of 378
We are all looking for a reason why "The Wall" is not being remixed in surround sound, but we should start by considering ourselves very lucky to just be able to get a surround version of "Wish you Were Here" in 2011!
Let's have a global look at the music industry as it is today and not focus on the Pink Floyd thing.
Every single artist whose new release came with a surround version of the album has dropped proposing a 5.1 mix. Even Björk's latest "Biophilia" doesn't come with a multichannel mix.
Surround music doesn't sell and has never sold much.
Now that global music itself doesn't sell, what do you think will happen with surround music?
As much as we (how many are we?) may love it, we now have to face the facts: there is not going to be many new multichannel audio only music releases in the days to come, apart from classical music and jazz (already a niche market). I hope I'm wrong but thing are clearly not going the other way.
post #139 of 378
However, dependent on an artist's global stature, whatever amount of money is needed to created/market a multi-channel Blu-ray/SACD version of an album would be nothing in comparison to the rewards in terms of sales. For example, if Sony, or Michael Jackson's estate, ever decide to finish and market the 5.1 version of "Thriller" (Sony requested Michael Jackson to remix the album for multi-channel SACD, but it was never finished), the expenses of that remix would be nothing when compared to the sales generated. Same with the rumored Madonna multi-channel remixes (originally for release on DVD-A).

Now, if classical and jazz releases can go multi-channel, and be profitable, I'm sure a multi-channel release from a big-name pop/rock artist can also be profitable. All it takes is some corporate will and knowledge.
post #140 of 378
Music companies are making a mistake when it comes to hesitation over multi-channel releases. I'm in my 50s and love to re-buy classic albums with multichannel mixes. In fact, I snap them up immediately - all of them! I've spent the money on serious surround equipment and I will buy music releases designed for it - in fact, I sometimes even buy releases I probably would not have but for a surround mix (e.g. Porcupine Tree).

I suspect I'm one of many music/sound enthusiasts with good equipment that crave multi-channel music mixes and the high definition that comes with them. While sales would not put these releases on the charts (who cares), surely they would cover their expenses and then some!
post #141 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregot View Post

We are all looking for a reason why "The Wall" is not being remixed in surround sound

Oh, I think the reason is pretty self-evident: $$

The record label clearly thinks the investment in a surround version of The Wall will not materially affect sales of the Immersion set, nor sell much as a standalone SACD - certainly not enough to justify whatever costs would be incurred in producing a surround mix.

I have bought the Immersion set of Dark Side, will buy the Immersion set of Wish You Were Here: however, I will pass on the Immersion set of The Wall - primarily because it does not have a surround mix.

It will be interesting to see if the SACD of WYWH sells well enough to convince the record labels to fund further surround mixes.
post #142 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by eirepaul View Post

Music companies are making a mistake when it comes to hesitation over multi-channel releases. I'm in my 50s and love to re-buy classic albums with multichannel mixes. In fact, I snap them up immediately - all of them! I've spent the money on serious surround equipment and I will buy music releases designed for it - in fact, I sometimes even buy releases I probably would not have but for a surround mix (e.g. Porcupine Tree).

I suspect I'm one of many music/sound enthusiasts with good equipment that crave multi-channel music mixes and the high definition that comes with them. While sales would not put these releases on the charts (who cares), surely they would cover their expenses and then some!

Unfortunately, for the vast majority of albums/cds, a multichannel release would come nowhere near covering production costs. We may be vocal on AVS, but we are still a very small minority. Sales of physical copies of new releases is way down - rereleases barely register other than a select few popular recordings.
post #143 of 378


The gorgeous book style package is eye candy. Can hardly wait to get it!
post #144 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by warp2600 View Post



The gorgeous book style package is eye candy. Can hardly wait to get it!



WOW, is that in the 40 something dollar package? Or is there another a more expensive set as well. Pretty cool either way.


Djoel
post #145 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post


WOW, is that in the 40 something dollar package? Or is there another a more expensive set as well. Pretty cool either way.

Djoel

It IS the one and only SACD release priced $35
post #146 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Unfortunately, for the vast majority of albums/cds, a multichannel release would come nowhere near covering production costs. We may be vocal on AVS, but we are still a very small minority. Sales of physical copies of new releases is way down - rereleases barely register other than a select few popular recordings.

I suppose you make sense - but it really is unfortunate that most of the music-buying public, while having many more ways to obtain music, have also opted to accept lower sound quality, further isolating those of us who value high definition sound in our music collection and making it even more difficult to find the software required for our quality hardware. Oh well - I'll just have to make do with what I've already collected, but it's really too bad that HD sound continues to take a back seat in today's technology accelerated world. For example, there just aren't enough Blu-Ray music releases coming out.
post #147 of 378
Was there a chance to compare the 5.1 mix of WYWH with the old Quad version?
I had the SQ Quad version "in the day". I really like it, even with the limited separation inherent with SQ. And I had the best logic system on the market at the time.

There is a DTS version of WYWH quad probably sourced from the Q8 8 Track floating on the web. The fidelity is remarkably good. The bass on Welcome to the Machine is scary good. I hope the official release is even better.

I am more likely to go for the SACD version than the full set. Though I gather I will not have access to the old 4.0 mix that way. I do like the SACD DSOTM that I have had since 2003 or so.

With regard to Fripp and King Crimson, I do wonder how well the surround DVD-Audio discs are doing. I do like the Red and Court of Crimson King releases. I have Discipline and Starless on order (skipped a few of the others, not my favorite discs, willing to stick with my stereo versions).

Fripp makes a decent living I suppose re-mastering the Crimson catalog every 5-10 years or so. Of course EG ripped him off badly in the day.

The surround mixes are not by Fripp; but by the leader of Porcupine Tree. (Steve Wilson if I recall, not near the discs right now).

I wish the original quads of DSOTM and WYWH could be purchased separately like the new Guthrie mixes.
post #148 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post


Unfortunately, for the vast majority of albums/cds, a multichannel release would come nowhere near covering production costs. We may be vocal on AVS, but we are still a very small minority. Sales of physical copies of new releases is way down - rereleases barely register other than a select few popular recordings.

While I generally agree, the King Crimson surround sound releases sit as something of an anomaly. I cannot imagine that they are selling a ton, but also that Fripp and company would continue to do them if they were losing money. Perhaps it is something of a paradigm shift away from the big record labels that allows them to do this in a far more economical way. I did read recently, for example, that Alan Parsons has attempted in the past to get control of his albums from Arists (?) in order to do surround versions.
post #149 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Unfortunately, for the vast majority of albums/cds, a multichannel release would come nowhere near covering production costs.

Any rough idea of the typical production costs involved?
post #150 of 378
FWIW, I have thought for some time now that the future for hirez/surround sound - if there is to be one - rests with downloads. Not sure if HDTracks, for example, can handle multi-channel; I know my Sooloos system cannot!
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