Vizio 510, Vizio 210, JVC BA1 another Davyo shoot-out w/ pictures - Page 8

Just got the 510 this weekend... am loving it so far, having rear speakers give it a edge..
initially i had setup all the speakers in teh front with the TV and put the soundbar in a "Front" mode.. the results we not excatly exceptional..
yesterday night moved the rear speakers to the back.. and there was a marked difference..
I had tried teh 210 and the CT150 and
Over all this may be the soundbar that i keep just because of the the enveloping sound that it produces..
One issue about it though, the sound field for left and right doesnt seem to extend beyond the bar.. and what i recall from memory the CT 150 had done this quite decently..

Another concern the lack of inputs, i have a 360, ps3, a patriot box, TV does pass DD5.1 but DTS is an issue and because of the lack of inputs i can just cant hook up all the sources to the bar, and i would have to put a new piece of equipment in there for optical switching

Thanks for the review. I was wondering what you mean by DTS being an issue. Is that an issue specific to your TV not passing DTS, or a general restriction? I have a WD TV Live Plus and intend to stream DTS-encoded MKVs to the VHT510 by way of the TV optical out. I have the Vizio XVT553SV... suppose I should see what it supports before I buy the VHT510!

Unless your TV is very old, it will output as follows:

Anything from the tuner will output what the tuner receives. OTA or direct cable will do multi-channel if the source is broadcast that way.

Anything connected to the TV via HDMI such as Blu-Ray, DVD, Playstation, Cable or Satellite box will output 2-channel through the TV's optical output. This is a copyright consideration due to DRM from the recording industry. All TV manufacturers currently selling in the US have signed on to an agreement that they will do this to avoid possible litigation from the recording industry.

My TV W5100, outputs DD5.1 when the source is inputing DD5.1, it doesnt matter what the source is, Bluray, Patriot Box, Xbox but for DTS it probably does the downmix..the DTS light doesnt light up when source is putting DTS into the TV.
It all depends on the TV and as David Freeman mentioned quite a few TV's only output DD5.1 for OTA.

And hence the predicament of probably adding a Optical switch.. i have a harmony remote but that is limited to 5 devices and that has already been taken up and I dont want to go buy a new Harmony just for this..

EDIT:
Listening to music on this, and I like that as well.. the best part that i liked is that the Sub is at around 6-7 feet from the Bar but they mesh quite well, the bass seems to be coming from the bar.. and not from a corner of the room..

Ahhh, k I got it. I just placed an order with Monoprice, I'm thinking I should have grabbed an optical switch .

Thanks drfreeman, makes sense. I keep forgetting that these are soundbars after all... if I really cared about surround I'd just go with a 5.1 setup.

I am a bit confused with the LED problem the 510 (and 210) is having.

If I understand things correctly, the LEDs stop working, but everything else continues to work. Are the LEDs required for any functionality? Or is this more a cosmetic thing.

(Personally, I hate all the LEDs on electronics now. I was so happy when my new TV allowed me to turn them off. I often put little pieces of black tape over the LEDs.)

(BTW, I don't mean to belittle cosmetic issues. The "look" is important for me, but personally, the LEDs are not).

Thanks,
chiledog

UPDATE on VIZIO VHT 510 Problem.

Vizio tech support has determined I have a defective unit. Not sure if it is the soundbar or subwoofer, but they don't link up. The subwoofer does not have an LED indicator despite what is says in the manual.

Vizio is sending me a postage paid label to send back the whole system and they will be sending me a new system.

Although I am disappointed the system does not work, at least Vizio responded in a timely manner and they are doing the right thing.

davyo, how about a summary? I've spent an hour reading all eight pages - could you be convinced to summarize your conclusions/recommendations to date? You need some homework, don't you?
AND, inputs are important for many - but it doesn't bother me to have to disconnect my (leftover $150/pair) RCA interconnects from my cable box and re-connect them to my DVD player - I Mostly Want To Know Which Soundbars Sound The Best!
For my money, I'd like to know:

What simple 2.1 systems you like?
I'm assuming you like the JVC BA1 better than the Boston Acoustics TeeVee Mocel 20?
I listened to the Polk (STA or 3000, I forget which) and own the Boston Acoustics original TeeVee2 - side by side in Best Buy the other day, the Polk was "clearer", but then I realized it was because the Boston had better midrange and the Polk was a bit tinny. Asked the guy if the source was the same... and he said of course. But, one could have easily been hooked up using optical cord and the other RCA. Or, someone had fooled with the tone controls on the unit supplying sound for the Polk soundbar. It is so frustrating trying to compare anything - you can't just do it yourself in the store, you just about have to bring two or three units home and compare them yourself.

If one wants just a simple system (say under or around $300) for television and DVD and MTV/VH1/Palladium music channel viewing and listening in a smallish room, with or without any simulated surround processing, is the JVC BA1 still the clear winner?

Which manufacturers' simple systems have you listened to and found wanting (compared to the two or three systems you like)?
Zvox, Sony, Pioneer, Samsung? (And Bose, must it be said...?)
[My opinion, and an informed one as of 20 years ago is I never heard a Sony, Yamaha, Pioneer, Kenwood, Onkyo... any Japanese speaker that was any good at all. Bar none. Polk, Infinity, Boston Acoustics, all the American half-respectable speakers always sounded better for the same or similar money. So I'm prejudiced against the Samsungs and Vizio's also. Davyo, is this your experience with the current crop of soundbars?]

Raising our sights to still just a soundbar and wireless sub but also with some simulated surround processing ability ($300 to $500?), again, could you list the good/worthy models as well as the unsatisfying ones?

Finally, If one wants a soundbar with sub and rear speakers, what systems do you think sound good?

It will be helpful to know which soundbars you really like, what other soundbars you've tried and found to be decent (or not) but still inadequate compared to their competition, and which ones you've yet to try.

THANKS very much!

Many thanks Davyo.

What I "should" do, since I own the Boston Tee Vee unit, is see if I can get locally the JVC BA1, and Polk soundbars ($250 price range) and compare the three. For reference to "the real thing", I guess I could throw into the mix my two channel (soon to be five or seven) setup: Jolida Music Envoy tube preamp (upgraded with Eurotubes), bridged NAD power amps, Thiel CS2 speakers. (WireWorld interconnects, Kimber 8TC speaker wire.) Linn Genki CD player, if we wanted to compare the three for music too.

My (most likely outdated) paradigm is that the Polk or Boston soundbars should be top performers, or close to it (let's say the JVC might be the one to beat). If they can hang with the JVC unit then by default the might be better than Sony et. al. REALLY, if I'm going to go to the trouble, I should just try the Sony CT-150 too - then we would have a definitive answer.

Maybe in January!

Del

I agree with your comments on Japanese speakers from their big box companies. I have listened to many over the years and always came away shaking my head as to what they used for a reference. Never heard a single one, including some ridiculously high priced ones, that sounded musical or natural.

However, when it comes to budget systems, I have almost a flip perspective. It seems that when it comes to HTIB and soundbar type solutions, the Japanese offer better solutions that our local guys. The Vizio soundbar, from Taiwan I think, is a prime example of well thought out and engineered piece of equipment. JVC and Sony both seem to build extremely competent components in this category also. The BA soundbar is a competent unit for what it is. Two channel sound as an improvement over your TV sound. Which is really all that it was designed for. I have only heard the Polks retail and have never thought they were particularly good. I have not listened to their better speakers in years, but remember when almost everything they made was considered a joke. Obviously they have improved since being taken over by one of the mega conglomerates. Same goes for Infinity. I currently have Infinity speakers for music (circa 2002) and they outperform any box speaker I have owned and it has been long enough since I had bipolar speakers, I don't trust my memory. But I listened to some of Arnie Nudell's original Quantum Line Source speakers back in the 1970's and thought they were quite a mixed bag.

Bottom line is, both sides have a lot of designs that are good and a number that are horrible. It really requires a good listen to determine just how good or bad any of these units are.

I really don't need to get started on the American High End Audio Industry. At one time, most of these people were innovative with at least some modicum of engineering expertise on thier side. In the 1980's and 1990's I saw many if not most begin peddling snake oil and have side stepped most since that time. I see a few that have promising products these days but really don't have the energy to investigate.

Thanks for the response, both dl and davyo.

I just realized, reading for the 25th time about soundbars (and the JVC BA1) - that I'm so old I've just about lost my mind. I was reading JVC, made in Japan, and thinking JBL, made in the USA .

Regardless, I'm getting a soundbar for my aunt for Christmas, and thought, what the heck, I'll have it shipped to my house and compare it with my Boston Acoustics TVee 2 before going to see her. I guess if I have time I'll try and get the Sony CT-150 at my local Best Buy for a quick comparison - keep the best one for my Aunt (unless for some reason I like the BA unit better) and return the other one.

Old minds are hard to change, but I'm looking forward to hearing the JVC unit - as I've just got my high end system going (spent 12 years in Europe, had to get a couple of units converted back to 110v) so I'll have a decent reference when it comes to music.

My thought is, if a soundbar is lacking when playing music, how can it be any good for movies? HOWEVER, I expect that while the JVC unit might suffer a little in comparison to the BA TVee in music playback (or it might not - this is just my prejudice that I might soon be forced to reconsider), with its pseudo 4.1 surround the JVC might still be way better for movies.

One question, right now my television in the basement is in the corner, and it is a LONG ways to any walls behind the seating area. (And with a little effort, I have the option of moving things around since I've not done the home theater thing yet. [tangent: I was continually assured for two years that my taxes were going to be raised, and the only question was going to be by how much - wouldn't you know: now they are going to stay the same. My view is the economy would be much better off today if someone had come to the "let's don't raise taxes now" conclusion a year ago. So, an Aston-Martin (used, believe me - and their cheapest model) has fallen by the wayside but I'm gaining a little enthusiasm for my long awaited home theater system. But taxes or no, I guess this thread is about soundbars? Sorry.]

Back to the topic, will the JVC BA1 soundbar sound OK with no rear walls for sound reflection - or should I place my sofa a few feet in front of a wall and the television/soundbar setup 10' or so away. Still no side walls, but at least there would be a rear wall for sound reflection?

Thanks!

My setup has neither side walls or a backwall - 16' to closest sidewall - 45' to the backwall. The JVC does a superb job of giving a psuedo surround effect, but more important to me, it at least reproduces the entire spectrum from 5.1 sources.

For most setups, it is hard for me to imagine the BA-1 being a bad choice. Probably real good for your setup. And don't move the couch. Keep it at the best spot for viewing. Yeah, multi-channel theater sound is nice, but HDTV is primarily about the viewing. I would never do anything to screw that up. Which is why I have a separate audio room for music and my plasma and soundbar of the year (different than Davy's soundbar of the month (or week)).

Davyo

It is so nice to have someone not too thin skinned to joke with and compare notes. I still do a moderate amount of reading in the plasma and hi-def TV forums. I have to proof read everything I say there because one error and someone will jump down your throat, and those folks take things seriously. I gave up on the LCD forum as there are just too many TV's and way too many egos there.

If you didn't catch it anywhere else, looking forward to your take on the new Yamaha.

I recently purchased the 510 knowing there was a good chance the volume LEDs would stop working. From posts at this site and my own listening/research I think the JVC THBA3 and Vizio VHT510 have the same quality of sound (each better than the other at certain aspects, but both overall great sounding soundbars).

The THVBA3 is about $100 more than the VHT510. So the question you have to ask yourself, "Are the volume lights worth the extra $100"? For me it was no.

Plus the Vizio supports wireless headsets (something I wish to add in the future). Unfortunately it looks like they have not been released yet. Does anyone know about the headsets?

(BTW, thanks to all who posted on this thread. It has been helpful.)

I admit I don't know much about hi def sound hookups.
If I'm understanding your post, then it means that even with the best sound device available, you'll still only get 2 channel sound which wil be "bumped" up to 5.1 by your sound system but will never ever sound decent enough?

And the only way to get around that is to connect your devices (cable box and blue ray for example) directly to your sound system (example optical in to the BA1) and then connect the sound system to the TV via analog in or something?

Let us take a few steps back.

One, I believe the majority of the equipment being talked about would sound more than decent. Almost all of the recommended soundbars discussed here will not just sound better, but more than likely much better than all bet a very few speaker/audio systems built into modern high definition televisions. The primary reason that most of the built-in audio systems sound so bad is the either tiny or oblong shaped speakers used in the TV plus the enclosure for the speakers is so small as to cause numerous audio problems.

A soundbar or HTIB at least has a passable size driver, somewhat mediocre to sometimes very good enclosures and most have digital amplifiers designed for the specific drivers included.

The discussion above concerns only multi-channel sound. If you want 5.1, 7.1 or any of the newer high definition audio formats, you will need to connect the audio output directly from the selected components to the soundbar, HTIB, receiver, pre-amp, etc. This is due to Digital Rights Management and the audio industry's concern for digital piracy.

If you connect all of your components directly to the TV, you will still get good quality sound with the TV connected directly to your audio system. However, the sound passed by the television should be only 2-channel and not the multi-channel or high definition audio found on blu-ray, DVD or some CD's. Most consumer audio electronics will take this 2-channel output and to a fair to very good job of synthisizing surround audio.

So, if you want the absolute best sound from your audio/video system, you will connect your components directly to the audio system.

If you want the absolute best picture, you will connect your components directly to your HDTV.

I have been working with audio for over 30 years and I prefer good monaural sound to bad stereo sound. I prefer good stereo to bad to mediocre multi-channel. Therefore, I have no problem connecting components directly to my television and enjoying good 2-channel sound through a decent sounding soundbar. With three previous soundbar systems that I have owned and was fairly intimate with, I did just that as in my opinion each of these systems sounded better with straight two-channel sound than their synthisized versions of the same sound.

I am lucky that I now have a soundbar that allows me to connect both my Blu-Ray and DVR audio direct for multi-channel high quality sound and I keep both components connected directly to the TV via HDMI for best picture quality for each without having to make picture adjustments when changing from one component or OTA to the next.

One other item of note. Most inexpensive sound reproduction systems do not have the ability to delineate the fine differences between the various HD audio standards. If you really want HD sound, whether 2-channel or greather, you will need to spend much more (very much more) than any of the systems being discussed on these pages.

An update on the 510.

My setup is this way, i have all my sources feeding into my TV and the TV feeding into the 510.
This all works good except for TV viewing..
i normally watch OTA channels and while changing channels the 510 sometimes just stops playing sound.. i though this was an issue with the TV but once i pulled out the optical cable while there was no sound and the fiber was lit.. Also just changing the channels once again seems to do the trick...
This weekend noticed this while playing music via the TV's Pandora app..
I had to take a call and had paused the music.. once i resumed it just wouldn't output the sound..
i pulled out the cable and again the fiber was lit and when I plugged it back in the bar started receiving the signal..and then i could repeat this.. pause and then play.. it would loose the signal and replugging it would do the trick..
however if i play music or movies from other sources (not the TV) everything works just fine..
I've loved the 510 and (knock on wood) havent had the LED issues till date and dunno if i should have the bar replaced just for this...

Well I bit the bullet and order the VHT510. The LED issue caused me some concern but it appears that the issue is much better based on more recent reviews on Amazon. The sound quality and setup (5.1 with wireless sub and speakers in the back) is simply too perfect for my set up and it sounds as though the audio is realy good.

I hope I get some good sound from the rear speakers but I'll report back after I've watched a couple of blu-rays with my thoughts.

Thanks for the input everyone.

I know of your troubles with the VHT and your praise, in fact your origional posts on the VHT510 were what peaked my interest. I bought some optical cables and a switcher with the unit so I'll be getting the best sound I can. I'll make sure to play around with bitstream vs. PCM.

My test blurays will be Scott Pillgram vs. the World (my personal 2010 movie of the year), Inception, and Speedracer (yes I know odd selections but all have top notch visuals and sound). I'm even going to try a standard DVD, one of the origional Star Wars just for fun.

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks how it works out.

I have a very basic question. I am not tech saavy so please be patient. I recently bought a Vizio 5.1 and so far I love it, only had it for about 10 days and so far it has performed flawlessly. Have not experienced any problems with the LED lights, so far. The sound is great. Even my wife loves the sound it puts out. My questions is this. I am thinking of buying a Harmony One universal remote am wondering if the remote will sync with the Harmony One. Anyone try it yet?

Sharing my experience.
Bought my VHT510 1 week ago at Costco for my bedroom.
I'm pretty happy with the sound and my wife likes the design (no cables crossing the bedroom).
Now the bad part.
I found the same problem that davyo: high pitch sound coming from the center of the bar that doesn't goes off unless I unplug the unit. In most circumstances it would be acceptable (I barely can hear it), but not in the bedroom...

Today morning I realized that the sound level leds are not working.
Fortunately the "Vizio power recycle" (turn off,unplug, keep the on button pressed for minute, plug, turn on) helped.
I like the vht510 so much that I can live without the led/recycling when I need the led.
But unless I find a solution for the high pitch sound I'm going to return the bar back to Costco. ( 80 days left )

Just some thoughts.
Today I visited another Costco store and noticed that the Serial # of the VHT510 sold there (SSAOJEBL46016xx ) is much higher than mine ( SSAOJEBL39009xx )
(I replaced 2 last digits with xx)
So there is some chance that the high pitch sound and the LED issue affected only the first few batches.

golfer1medic1: I bought a Harmony 650 (BestBuy on sale) couple of days ago and it works fine with my VHT510. Had to fix an incorrect key mapping either on VHT , BD player or TV (don't remember the details).

I had the 510 for about 10 days without the LED problem. It did, however, have the high pitch tone/buzz. I contacted Vizio and they are exchanging it.

I am hoping the new 510 will be a "newer" model with the latest "fixes" (not sure if there are any "fixes", just hoping).

But, I was really happy with the sound quality and the look.

Using the Harmoy 650 and it works great.. as someone pointted out there is a problem with probably th input key mapping..
mine keeps switching to ipod even though i have programmed to have it switch to optical..
And i think this would be easily fixed.

BTW, if you dont have more than 5 devices i would highly recommend the Harmony 650 (saves you quite a bit of cash)