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The official Epson 8700UB thread - Page 37

post #1081 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbun99 View Post

I'd like to share my calibration experience with this projector. I had free access to a Spyder2Pro colorimeter, so went with that, despite reports of it being inaccurate. I did find trouble at 10 IRE and no readings at 0 IRE, but otherwise seems ok. My brother used it to calibrate his Mac, and his photos look awesome.
I used the Color HCFR program on win7-64bit and free download calibration DVD in my PS3, running over about 40' of component cable. My screen is home-made with a light gray paint, with a tiny hint of red.

I wanted to calibrate Eco mode, to avoid the higher fan noise and Auto-Iris noise. I was surprised to find I had to make huge adjustments to match the reference colors, but I'm very happy with the end result. I'm actually surprised now close i could get this to the HD reference. One area I couldn't reach was the green brightness--it ran out of gas, but that's acceptable to me.

Just for reference, here's the values I ended up with. They won't be valid for your projector, but I think it's instructive to see how far I had to adjust things. See the PNG attachments for my plots.

Theatre mode black 1
Brightness -1
Saturation -6
Contrast -6
Tint 0
6500k
Skin Mode 3
gamma 2.4

Advanced->RGB
Offset (R,G,B) 2,1,5
Gain (R,G,B) 3,2,1

Advanced->RGBCYM
(Hue, Saturation, Brightness)
R: 8,-51,52
G: -7,-64,64
B: -15,1,7
C: 0,-31,64
Y: 0,-35,35
M: 0,-18,13

Can you take a screen shot from these settings with a film.
Also with having a 2.4 gamma low Colour, sat low contrast and could that be why you are at the high end of your brightness on your colours
Your Red Green cyan yellow are all high negitive saturation and high postitive brightness I dont know how this can be good?

Here is a recent screen shot in thx mode on my 9700


post #1082 of 2829
Well, I'm not a fan of taking photos of a screen, since it introduces two new variables--the camera and your monitor. And my camera might not be very good. But I'm attaching a couple here anyway. Note I put a white box at the bottom of the screen to help serve as a white reference. These pics were taken in the THX mode described below

I recalibrated my PJ in THX mode, in power mode 'Normal' with Sat and Tint=0. In this case, I was able to line up on the REC709 references nearly perfectly. The CMS settings were just as off-center as before:

THX mode
Bright -1
Contrast -5
Saturation 0
Tint 0
Power Normal
Iris Off
Advanced-Gamma 2.2
Advanced-RGB
Offset (R,G,B) 5,-6,4
Gain (R,G,B) 2,-4, 1

Advanced->RGBCMY
R: -3,-13,2
G: -26,-64,63
B: -15,5,0
C: 0,-56,43
M:-10,-1,0
Y: 1,-31,20


I also measured the Y values of primaries and secondaries and calibrate against the references. Measured values in parentheses, targets are on the left:
W: (64.954)
R: 13.8092204 (13.955)
G: 46.4551008 (45.701)
B: 4 .6896788 (4.618)
C: 51.1447796 (51.067)
Y: 60.2643212 (60.175)
M: 18.4988992 (18.526)

The HCFR plots will go in my next post (limit is 5). You can see here, things are very well calibrated, and despite the high values, the picture is in fact accurate. Sometimes the adjustments make little difference, so large values are needed to make a difference.
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post #1083 of 2829
Here are the plots from HCFR, THX mode that the 3 pics above were taken with.
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post #1084 of 2829
Will try these same settings on my 9700
and see how it looks on my black diamond...
Will report how it looks...

My 9700 has a Silver Screen Mode...
What color mode would that be on a 8700..

If someone knows that answer can you post that info.

Wonderbun once you find that mode could you calibrate it....
post #1085 of 2829
I think the closest mode is "Theatre Black 2". In the 8700 manual, they're described like this:

■ Dynamic for projecting the brightest picture available.
■ Living Room for watching television programs during
the day.
■ THX (Home Cinema 8700 UB) or Natural (Home
Cinema 8350) for projecting natural, accurate colors in
a dimly lit room.
■ Theatre (Home Cinema 8700 UB) or Cinema
(Home Cinema 8350) for viewing movies in a dimly lit
room.
■ Theatre Black 1 (Home Cinema 8700 UB) for images that are close to those in professional-use broadcast monitors. Use in a fully darkened room.
Theatre Black 2 (Home Cinema 8700 UB) to emphasize rich colors, like those seen in movies at the theater. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ x.v.Color for the most natural color reproduction when viewing movies through HDMI.

In the 9700, the modes are
■ Vivid (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Dynamic (Pro Cinema 9350) for projecting the brightest picture
available.
■ Cinema Day (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Living
Room(Pro Cinema 9350) for watching television
programs during the day.
■ THX (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Natural (Pro Cinema
9350) for projecting natural, accurate colors in a dimly
lit room.
■ Cinema Night (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Cinema (Pro Cinema 9350) for viewing
movies in a dimly lit room.
■ HD (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) for images that are close to those in professional-use
broadcast monitors. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ Silver Screen (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) to emphasize rich colors, like those seen in movies at the theater. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ x.v.Color for the most natural color reproduction when viewing movies through HDMI.

I'll recalibrate with Normal Power, Iris off, theatre black 2, to see if there's any significant difference. But if you really care, I'd pick up a colorimeter and do it on your setup. Our screen diffs will surely skew things. The eye-one LT is pretty cheap on ebay (new). If I didn't already have free access to this one, I'd grab it. You'll probably want to check the calibration every so often, so it's worth it, plus you can calibrate all your computer screens too.
post #1086 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbun99 View Post

I think the closest mode is "Theatre Black 2". In the 8700 manual, they're described like this:

■ Dynamic for projecting the brightest picture available.
■ Living Room for watching television programs during
the day.
■ THX (Home Cinema 8700 UB) or Natural (Home
Cinema 8350) for projecting natural, accurate colors in
a dimly lit room.
■ Theatre (Home Cinema 8700 UB) or Cinema
(Home Cinema 8350) for viewing movies in a dimly lit
room.
■ Theatre Black 1 (Home Cinema 8700 UB) for images that are close to those in professional-use broadcast monitors. Use in a fully darkened room.
Theatre Black 2 (Home Cinema 8700 UB) to emphasize rich colors, like those seen in movies at the theater. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ x.v.Color for the most natural color reproduction when viewing movies through HDMI.

In the 9700, the modes are
■ Vivid (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Dynamic (Pro Cinema 9350) for projecting the brightest picture
available.
■ Cinema Day (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Living
Room(Pro Cinema 9350) for watching television
programs during the day.
■ THX (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Natural (Pro Cinema
9350) for projecting natural, accurate colors in a dimly
lit room.
■ Cinema Night (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) or Cinema (Pro Cinema 9350) for viewing
movies in a dimly lit room.
■ HD (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) for images that are close to those in professional-use
broadcast monitors. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ Silver Screen (Pro Cinema 9700 UB) to emphasize rich colors, like those seen in movies at the theater. Use in a fully darkened room.
■ x.v.Color for the most natural color reproduction when viewing movies through HDMI.

I'll recalibrate with Normal Power, Iris off, theatre black 2, to see if there's any significant difference. But if you really care, I'd pick up a colorimeter and do it on your setup. Our screen diffs will surely skew things. The eye-one LT is pretty cheap on ebay (new). If I didn't already have free access to this one, I'd grab it. You'll probably want to check the calibration every so often, so it's worth it, plus you can calibrate all your computer screens too.

Ya if you can recalibrate that mode ,
that would be awesome
THX and silver screen are the two modes i use the most.

as for that colorimeter is it called
X-Rite Eye-One i1 Display LT Monitor Color Manage?
post #1087 of 2829
Yes, that's the one. I changed my mind--I'm going to try and stick to ECO mode for movies, to keep the noise down, so I'll end up with THX-ECO and Theatre Black 2-ECO. My screen is only 86" diagonal and nearly minimum throw, so I should have plenty of brightness in ECO mode. Are my settings of theatre-black-2-eco of any use to you?
post #1088 of 2829
I submitted my lamp rebate 1/12/11 and received a conformation from the Epson Rebate Administrator on 1/31/11 that they had received it and was in process. Today I decided to check online my current status with my rebate and can't get a match with my name, address and serial #. I will call them on Monday. I included all necessary documentation with my rebate and received the one e-mail confirmation from Epson. Should I be concerned ? I do so hate rebates!
post #1089 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbun99 View Post

Yes, that's the one. I changed my mind--I'm going to try and stick to ECO mode for movies, to keep the noise down, so I'll end up with THX-ECO and Theatre Black 2-ECO. My screen is only 86" diagonal and nearly minimum throw, so I should have plenty of brightness in ECO mode. Are my settings of theatre-black-2-eco of any use to you?

Yes Eco Theater black 2 will be good.

Screen shot your settings with Modified Brightness and Tint...Minor Adjustments
Need to go a little higher on brightness..


Your Colors are bang on ,
Here is a screen shot i did the other day from ateam...
Notice BA Shirt...
Your settings the shirt is the correct color...


another example
My Settings thx


Your New Settings
post #1090 of 2829
Okay wonderbun,
Just watched Little Fockers,
Your Settings are really Good.
I do need mine a little brighter because i have a .8 gain
but i just put the Contrast enhancement on
Just First setting out of 3
dont know if the 8700 has that...
post #1091 of 2829
fraisa,
I started calibrating Theatre Black 2, and found that it's really just a more-saturated version of TB1. In fact, my green sat can not be brought down far enough to the reference green at all. I'll be sticking with THX-Normal when I want maximum accuracy and don't care about the fan noise, or THX-ECO otherwise. I suspect those modes are just biases to the color settings which I'm calibrating out anyway...
post #1092 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbun99 View Post

fraisa,
I started calibrating Theatre Black 2, and found that it's really just a more-saturated version of TB1. In fact, my green sat can not be brought down far enough to the reference green at all. I'll be sticking with THX-Normal when I want maximum accuracy and don't care about the fan noise, or THX-ECO otherwise. I suspect those modes are just biases to the color settings which I'm calibrating out anyway...

Okay No problem
What about Dynamic for HDTV Viewing ?
post #1093 of 2829
Hey everyone I have a Mitsub HC1600 PJ and am thinking about upgrading to this one. MY next PJ I would like to last me for a few years before I upgrade again and I was going back n for from the Panasonic AE4ku to this one and settled on the 8700. My current screen is about a 1.2 gain. Will this PJ be fine for me?

My PJ and Screen are set up in my living room. I do not have 100% light control. I seem to be able to control about 75% of it or so with Levour black out shades that I purchased from Lowes. My HC1600 is not good during the day, but at night it's great. I'd imagine this PJ to be useable during the day given my situation?

Who currently has the best deal on this PJ? I was thinking about going with Visual Apex.

Currently I used my PJ:
70% for Movies, Tv shows, Netflix (Kids shows)
30% for gaming.

Thanks
Judd
post #1094 of 2829
Who currently has the best deal on this PJ? I was thinking about going with Visual Apex.

Currently I used my PJ:
70% for Movies, Tv shows, Netflix (Kids shows)
30% for gaming.

Thanks
Judd[/quote]

I recently purchased mine from "The Projector Place". Great people to deal with, good price. Your room sounds a lot like mine, and I can enjoy this projector in the day time. I have a 1.0 gain AT Draper screen, and even with all the micro perfs, the image is bright in the day. I use the Living Room mode during the day, and THX at night. Superb!
post #1095 of 2829
Natural mode is preferred as a starting point for calibrations. At least, this is how it has been for the last few generations of projectors.

I've had problems with hue linearity on the Theater black modes with the red and blue primaries before.

This may help
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16166537

Dan
post #1096 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by den110 View Post
Well after looking at the picture some more, I decided to adjust the CMS also. I utilized the saturation method outlined by Stereomandan (in the 6500UB forum). The colors look much more vibrant and less "washed out" I attached the updated HCFR file and also the excel spread sheet to help with the calibration.
Sorry I never got back to you about your calibration den110, but dang, you got it nailed! I bet it looks fantastic. Your calibration is closer than I can get with my 1080UB. (my 100% colors are more oversturated than yours when using the 75% method)

just for fun, attached is my latest 1080UB calibration with my new i1pro meter (which I am very happy with).

Ignore the overall luminance readings. I setup my projector very close to my screen material to boost the light output to the meter.

Dan

 

2011 3-27 i1pro close to projector facing screen, high lamp.zip 10.7998046875k . file
post #1097 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntold View Post

I submitted my lamp rebate 1/12/11 and received a conformation from the Epson Rebate Administrator on 1/31/11 that they had received it and was in process. Today I decided to check online my current status with my rebate and can't get a match with my name, address and serial #. I will call them on Monday. I included all necessary documentation with my rebate and received the one e-mail confirmation from Epson. Should I be concerned ? I do so hate rebates!

I wouldn't worry. When I went online it never showed that I was in the system even though they sent the confirmation email. I waited the 6 weeks and finally called to see what the hold up was, they pulled my file right up and said that I was definitely getting a lamp sent they were just backordered. If it would make you feel better give them a call to confirm, but I wouldn't be concerned.
post #1098 of 2829
I just used the PJ calculator from PROJECTOR CENTRAL and I'd like to place this PJ up on a shlef where my Mitsub HC1600 is. From the lense to the screen it's about 17' 1", 17' 2". According to the calculator I should be at about 16' 10" to project a 120" with a 1.2 gain. Will +3 or 4 inches matter in the way the picture looks, will it take away from it at all?

Thanks
Judd
post #1099 of 2829
That will make no noticeable difference.

Dan
post #1100 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

That will make no noticeable difference.

Dan

Thanks Dan. Just wanted to know if I was missing "anything"

Judd
post #1101 of 2829
I purchased my 8700UB last month and am absolutely loving the projector experience. However, I was wondering how long it was taking you all to get your rebates from Epson. I'm going on 5 weeks now after submitting for my $100 rebate and free bulb. How long did yours take?

Thanks.
post #1102 of 2829
I received mine about a week ago, but have yet to finish the room it's going in or the screen. I am thinking of going 125" but only have a throw range of between 13' and 13'5". The calculator on Projector Central shows that is well within the range of the zoom, but will using that level of zoom be detrimental? The room will be totally light controlled. Is there any downside of having the projector close to the screen?
post #1103 of 2829
quick question. i am selling one of my jet ski's this weekend and was going to apply those funds toward my car payment since i'm trying to drastically cut down the payments, but i been thinking a lot about this PJ. will there be a big difference from my current Mitsubishi HC1600 720p hd dlp projector versus this one? just wondering iif i should pull thee trigger and get it now versus waiting a few months.


if it helps any my screen is 120" white with a 1.2gain . my setup is in my living room. i only have the light controlled about 75% with black out shades. with my current pj the picture is soome what hard to see during the day but i pretty much just use it at night bc of that.

movies/games

thanks
Judd
post #1104 of 2829
quick question. i am selling one of my jet ski's this weekend and was going to apply those funds toward my car payment since i'm trying to drastically cut down the payments, but i been thinking a lot about this PJ. will there be a big difference from my current Mitsubishi HC1600 720p hd dlp projector versus this one? just wondering iif i should pull thee trigger and get it now versus waiting a few months.


if it helps any my screen is 120" white with a 1.2gain . my setup is in my living room. i only have the light controlled about 75% with black out shades. with my current pj the picture is soome what hard to see during the day but i pretty much just use it at night bc of that.

movies/games

thanks
Judd
post #1105 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhereToStart View Post

I received mine about a week ago, but have yet to finish the room it's going in or the screen. I am thinking of going 125" but only have a throw range of between 13' and 13'5". The calculator on Projector Central shows that is well within the range of the zoom, but will using that level of zoom be detrimental? The room will be totally light controlled. Is there any downside of having the projector close to the screen?

The closer to the screen, the brighter the projector. You may lose a slight amount of native contrast, but the gain in brightness is a better trade-off in my opinion. You are good to go. (this is coming from a guy with his projector about 18' back on a 106" screen wishing I had a little more light output to the screen.) I have the older sibling, the 1080UB which is a little dimmer than the 8700UB.

Dan
post #1106 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher One View Post

I purchased my 8700UB last month and am absolutely loving the projector experience. However, I was wondering how long it was taking you all to get your rebates from Epson. I'm going on 5 weeks now after submitting for my $100 rebate and free bulb. How long did yours take?

Thanks.

I sent mine in the end of Dec., still had not received it as of last week when I called them. There are NO bulbs to send out, they, Epson, nobody has any bulbs. Completely backordered. She showed me in the system, waiting like everyone else!
She gave a date they were expected, it sounded reasonable but I didn't pay attention and don't recall. You know when you have a good bulb in the home there's no problem, it's WHEN the bulb goes without a spare around that I begin to care.

So rest assured, nothing nefarious up.
post #1107 of 2829
I'm sooo excited to watch the Brewers' season opener today on my 142" screen with my 8700!

When going from PS3 Blu-Ray to HDTV, especially HD sports, my picture looks noticably poor in terms of resolution. My 12-year-old son even just said, "Is this even high-def???" I know the signal I'm receiving is 1080i.

What would people say are the best settings for watching HD sports?

Frame Interpolation set to low, Progressive set to Auto, 4-4 Pull-down turned off, Auto Iris set to High, etc.?

Thanks!
post #1108 of 2829
You're not doing anything wrong for sports.

Comparing television to a blu-ray disc is apples and oranges.

Both pictures are made up of a grid of 1920x1080 pixels, but the similarities end there.

Not only does Blu-Ray use mpeg-4 vs television's mpeg-2 (a compression algorithm designed from the ground up for high-definition efficiency) but Blu-ray uses a bitrate as high as 48mb/s versus television's ~18mb/s maximum.

These differences are for the most part unnoticeable on a "normal" sized television. They do become quite a bit more noticeable at larger screen sizes, especially when pausing the image!
post #1109 of 2829
I have been having good luck using HD on Directv with setting Super resolution on 1, Frame interpolation on low, Iris normal, 4-4 off. Actually very pleasantly surprised on how good it looks. Something to note, my first 8700 had bad convergence and the replacement I have now is almost spot on, on the original unit with the bad convergence HDTV did not look so spectacular even though bluray looked good.
post #1110 of 2829
yep, I've pretty much given up watching HDTV on my projector. Preferring a 46" LCD TV over a 110" projected image is saying a lot when it comes to the quality Im getting with HDTV. Definitely not the projector's fault as the image quality is superb with Blu-Ray. It's probably the comcast box. When I build my HTPC, I'll look into building a tuner in my HTPC. Im sure that'll be better than the motorola boxes comcast provides.

For those of you calibrating the colors - is there any way to do it w/o a colorometer? If not, is there anyplace I can rent a colorometer from? I left my 8700 on THX mode, but I'm not seeing the inky blacks you guys are mentioning - I have a 16:9 SilverFire V2 2.0 (DIY) screen and i definitely see the top and bottom "black" bars in 2.35:1 movies. Also I feel like I'm losing detail in shadows sometimes.
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