The official Epson 8700UB thread - Page 70

yes but if you call epson and say the bulb dimmed or something, they send you a new one without a question. that is why they were offering it in the first place. scroll down and at the picture quality section, you will see him saying this. also remember ,Art loves Epsons because of black levels. I mean After using the Epson 6100, 8100, 8350 for the last 3 years and getting the 8700 yesterday, I will tell you the only difference in terms of picture quality, performance is the black levels and the iris working smoother compare to the low end ones. with Epson 6500 we get the same image projessor, same everything in terms of performance. the black level is going to be so similar, thats why Projector reviews say it is not worth the upgrade if you own the 6500 or the 8500.
but hey, they might have a sale for the christmas and make the 8700 even cheeper, then it is worth it. Projector people told me they have 30 days return policy on this and because the bulbs already have a few hours on them, they are not enforcing how much you use before you return. so But it now! and next 30 days if 8700 gets a deal jump on it and return it for full refund. all you are gonna lose is $20 shipment cost.
also I read both Procector Central and Projector reviews , reviews of all the 6500, 8500, 8700 and the conlusion is not that much difference. remember though I am talking from an surviving actors point of view. if I had a lot of money I would go for the 8700. Which I did go for a refurbished new one locally for only $800. if I didn't see that deal yesterday, I was going to order the 6500 tomorrow from Projector people. I already talked to someone from epson in irvine. they told me it was a great deal, because of full warrant and 6500 being an high end model

"Apparently a few small changes, done right, can take what seems to be a minor update, and turn it into a really improved projector. NO, those of you with 6500UB's and 8500UB's, you don't need to replace your projectors. This is a small improvement, but one that will really appeal to those most enthusiastic about their home theaters."


http://www.projectorreviews.com/epso...00ub/image.php

differences are the things that you will not use for movies. like frame interpolation , I tried and it makes things not good. if you care only about the picture quality bare bones. then 6500 and 8700 maybe has a difference of $200. save your money and paypal me %20 of it

Thanks for the responses, cheezit and ethanj.

The convergence isuues are indeed minor but noticeable with dark images on a white background. Color uniformity is not noticeable with color content but very much so with black and white movies.

Good to know Epson is easy to work with in regards to customer service.

According to reviews, the 6500 is pretty noisy. I think might kill the deal for me. I might just wait for a good price on the 8700.

I wouldn't say it is too noisy. I have the 6500 about 3.5 ft behind seating and 7 ft high. I can hear the fan and iris when it is quiet dialogue or movie scenes. Certainly for most of the movie and cable TV programs, it is not distracting to me. Now that being said, my wife and I saw the Sony 30AES and she loved how quiet it was. So much, she asked me to get it. Stupid me hasn't taken here up on the offer, for I am still waiting for the right time to buy the PJ and set it up. Work always seems to get in the way, LOL!

I just received my 8700ub from Visual Apex a few days ago, actually picked it up on Sunday from the FedEx office, I had it held there because I was working the day it was to be delivered and didn't want it riding around in the back of a truck for days. Anyways, fast shipping and a great deal.

Before I give my impressions let me first tell you just a little back story. I've been wanting a projector and dedicated theater room for 5 years, ever since we bought our first house. As first houses usually go, it was small and I didn't really have the room to properly set up much more than a 50" plasma with a small 5.1 set up. The house just wasn't big enough and converting the downstairs family room/kids play area into a full blown home theater wasn't going to happen. However, as fate so graciously shined on me, the wife and I just moved into a much larger house 2 months ago, all criteria was met and approved by the wife, plus I was blessed with a 4th level dedicated room/basement just perfect for a home theater. So I will try not to let my 5 year wait bias my little review.

First of all I was dead set on getting the Panny AE4000, after reading just about every post on this forum about the AE4000, I knew it was a solid choice. Reliability and quality seemed rock solid, and having a $2000 dollar budget for the projector it was perfect. But I am a waffler, so just about every time I was about to type those CC numbers in I thought I'd better do a little more research.

So I decided to visit the local shops just to see what they had and see something in person just for my peace of mind. I demoed a Epson 9700 that was displayed on a 110" Stewart Firehawk, I was Wowed!!! Trying not to act too impressed I inquired about price, whoa, wowed again. So even though I really try to support local business, and would have loved just to give them my CC and be done with it, I pulled myself back to reality and went home empty handed, but now I was willing to maybe look at other brands of projectors.

Now, I started reading everything about Epson projectors and found that the 8700 is all but identical to the 9700. But it didn't take long to find all the bad press about Epsons reliability, and many people on this forum were on their 2nd and 3rd projectors. The common theme was however that when they did work properly, owners were more than satisfied with their purchase and customer service was outstanding.

So after reading everything Epson, I decided to save myself some trouble and go with the Panny. Now I was literally about to order the Panny when my friend, who is very into home theater himself, sent me a text about the deal on Visual Apex, projector, IR repeater, dust cover and free lamp all for $100 less than my budget, and two minutes later the dust had settled and the 8700 was in the books. All that research and time spent and I was pushed over the edge for a cheap IR repeater and free lamp.

After lobbying so hard for the AE4000 I felt I might have some regret going for the Epson but later that day I got the tracking number and my 5 year wait was now down to 5 days, and I was just plain excited.

Now, finally last night my buddy came over and we mounted the Sanus VP1 to the ceiling, ran wire for the Monoprice Recessed Pro Power kit and plugged my BD60 into the back and played Star Trek on my white wall. It took about 1minute to run through the menu and invert the picture and another 30 seconds to focus and size a 110" image. After 15 minutes of examining PQ and convergence and playing with diferent settings we determined we had a 100% functioning unit.

Honestly, I probably would have been impressed with just about anything, but the 8700 has met or surpassed all my expectations, PQ is sharp and bright and will only be better when I get my 110" Carada. I really can't see what spending more could do for me. My room is 14' x 23' and completely light controlled but all the walls and ceiling are white, so conditions obviously aren't ideal I can only imagine when I get my screen, black ceiling and figure out a more proper paint scheme that I will be impressed even more. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping my 8700 will not develop any problems, but right now I'm a very happy camper

I think the biggest complaint I have right now is motion blur during movies. Unfortunately the only fix would be to get a DLP.

I recommend a humidifier for all projector owners. Plus, having one in your HT room just makes the room feel much cooler and cleaner.

Flyingshane.....great story! I can certainly relate to all the second guessing and waffling.

Now that I have had my 8700/Evanesce combo set up for the past 5 days, I have to say that I am completely floored. I will also say that the 58" Panny plasma sitting behind the screen absolutely has a better and more dynamic picture. Honestly, at first, I allowed the differences between the 2 to continuously creep into my overall impressions of the projector. Now that I have some different settings saved for Sunday Ticket, DVDs and Blu-rays, the differences have no longer dominated my thoughts. I watched Ironman 2 on Blu-ray last night and was extremely impressed. This will sound crazy, but it almost felt as if the audio side of my setup had also gotten better. Of course, that is completely untrue; however, I think that the larger screen just seems to fit the sound better in that explosions and such have a much more realistic effect. Shadow detail, black levels and overall pop are still unable to compete with the Panny but the experience of watching movies on the big screen with the level of clarity that the 8700 has, makes me want to rewatch every friggin movie I own.

I just received a replacement refurb 8700 from epson yesterday since my 1 year old unit has developed a blue haze on the left side of the image. The new refurb is doa. It turns on, the bulb starts to come on then it stops and the red temp light flashes. Itried it several times over the course of the evening even tried a different bulb but no luck. Epson is sending me another refurb tomorrow. I hope this one works since i returned my original pr this morning as per their instructions.

You would think that Epson would have known that it won't come on before shipping it out.

This is the kind of stuff that scares me. Getting a DOA refurb on top is unacceptable, I'm glad they are taking care of you. I hope I don't have to go down this road, I can tell already any down time is going to be hard to take.

flyingshane, my story is pretty much the same as yours. i don't have a pj yet, but i've been going back and forth between the 8700 and the ae4000. i think i've settled on the 8700 because it looks like the ae4000 just isn't bright enough. i love the power zoom and lens memory on it, but when i run both projectors through the calculators for the screen size i want and the throw distance, the 8700 is supposed to have plently of brightness, even with ambient light. when i run the ae4000 with the same setup, it tells me it isn't even usable in complete darkness! other members have also warned me that the ae4000 just isn't bright enough for a 120", or 130" screen. plus, the black levels aren't as good. so, now i think i might be set on the 8700.

I agree, the brightness issue is probably the only thing that steered me away from the AE4000, I wanted to be able to have a little ambient light when watching TV or when the kids have a movie going. Again, I'm happy with my decision but it's too bad it seems like rolling the dice when it comes to getting a trouble free Epson.

For a new Epson 8700, I'm 2/2. People bloat this issue bigger than it really is.

Refurbished models are different. I'm 0/1.

Dust is the most likely thing that will show up, and thats not Epson specific. IT WILL HAPPEN, it's jut a matter of when. So please read my comment about a humidifier. It adds a level of protection, and has other bonuses.

Keep in mind we have no idea what happened during shipping. It could have fallen 6 feet off a pile of boxes and landed flat but that could easily dislodge a connection or break the bulb without showing damage on the box. So it could be fully functional when shipped by Epson but DOA due to shipping.

I've had my 8700 since July and still have a big smile on my face whenever I fire it up!

Can you fix a dust problem?

I got my new 8700UB from Projector People last night. I replaced my 4 year old Sanyo PLV-Z2000 that had its original bulb die about 2 months ago. My space is 100% light controlled with black celling and black fabric side and projection walls with 106" screen. I spent about an hour getting the new projector mounted to my existing Chief RPA mount.

The 8700UB is noticeably larger and heavier than the Z2000, not too bad but noticeable. I love the placement of the bulb and filter access, don't have to remove from ceiling and take off plate. I do miss the automatic lens cover door of the Sanyo's even though most thought it was a gimmick. I was also disappointed to see there was no lens shift lock, at least that I can find. The lens shift seems even sloppier than the Z2000, I am just hoping it doesn't drift too much or too easily. One funny note, I saw in the manual that I can rotate the Epson badge to ensure it is right way up when mounted on ceiling. It made me laugh that some poor soul had to design that.

I did a VERY basic calibration last night using a newly acquired copy of Disney WOW disc. (Like I said basic.) I will run through with AVS disc / Spyder / HFCR after Christmas. I looked around and saw it has cuts / gains for everything which is awesome. Anyway, I started with Theater Black 2 as recommended on this thread. Even in ECO mode (which is what I ran Z2000 in as well) it is definitely brighter, in normal it is almsot too much. If I have it in normal I can leave my recessed / sconce lighting on and it is very watchable, that surely wasn't possible on Z2000.

First thing I noticed during calibration was I was getting crushed blacks and whites. I had to go switch to expanded colors in HDMI setting. I have an LG BD640 (got free with TV this year) and it doesn't have a setting for range. I noticed the 8700UB is reporting 12 bit color which is cool. After fixing the crushing I found that I tweaked the brightness down to -8 and contrast up to 11 I think (was doing it at midnight). I didn't end up tweaking Color / Tint at all for now. Also the Skin Tone setting is new to me, not sure how you set that correctly.

I then watched a couple of clips to see how things look. I haven't had a projector for 2 months so my point of reference isn't as clear. I have been watching a LG 42LV5500 in a non-light controlled space. I started with Fifth Element since it has a special place in my heart. Looked great I must say. Then I switched to Dark Knight which looked amazing as well. I wish I had the z2000 for side by side but it the 8700UB seems noticeable better range and it is definitely brighter for sure.

I am anxious to do the full calibration for color / gray scale and see how good it is to start and how well I can dial it in.

The only issue I have seen is a bit of misconvergence. On the top left (or bottom right non-ceiling) the convergence is pretty much perfect. As you work your way diagonally across the screen to opposite corner the convergence gets progressively worse. By the far corner it is off by 1-2 pixels. If I am at normal seating distance I cannot see this and it is better than my Z2000 was overall. Everything seems good for color uniformity across the screen. I don't think I am going to play projector roulette since I am not confident that I will get a better one. Sometimes I miss my old Toshiba RPTV CRT where I could fix convergence.

I forgot my questions.
1. What is Epson Super White? What does it do from a technical standpoint?
2. I left the Auto Iris off on Z2000 and am inclined to do so on this one as well since it makes it easier to properly calibrate I think. Anyone leave it off?
3. Skin Tone? What is this setting actually changing different than Color / Tint?

Gang....so I've been reading this thread for weeks...and now I am more confused than ever - i guess welcome to the forum :-)

Anways...I am really close to pulling the trigger on an 8700 as my basement is in its final stages of design and I want to test everything before drywall, etc.

I would LOVE to get a $4K screen to go along with it, but due to budget issues for now I simply can't.

I will have a 60" Plasma (already have) for day in day out stuff...

So I am really leaning toward the Elite CineTension2 Tensioned Electric screen.

The material I was THINKING about was the Cine White material 1.1 Gain.

My screens is 120" diag - project will be about 12-13' away.

So is this a HORRIBLE MISTAKE? Should I consider the Grey Screen Material?

Any other questions you might have to help me, please let me know.

Thanks in advance!

@hoyty,
This is what Epson says about super white.
"If bright parts of the image are washed out or overexposed (when the input signal
contains values over 100 IRE), turn this setting on to compensate."

I can't imagine why you would want to leave the auto iris off.
Set skin tone to 3.

How did you determine that you were crushing whites and blacks?

On the Brightness and Contrast test patterns I couldn't see the blacker than black and whiter than white patterns.

I found somewhere else that Super White is disabled (or ignored) if HDMI is on extended so it doesn't matter it seems.

The Auto Iris makes calibration almost impossible since it keeps changing the picture. If I can get the blacks dark enough with it off I would rather the consistent picture.

Can anyone recommend a good mount for the 8700? I don't know anything about mounts since this is my first projector. I want something as inexpensive as possible without being junk. My ceiling is drywall, not concrete or anything special. I have a ceiling fan that hangs down 10" at its lowest point, so I need to hang past that. Or maybe I can line it up with the fan, since I will need to use lens shift to drop the picture anyway. My ceiling is 8'7".

I'm pretty sure that super white does have an effect when hdmi range is set to extended. The description in the manual really isn't good enough to be able to tell what exactly super white is technically doing. I leave it off. I think some people set hdmi to extended without re-calibrating the PJ. Super white might make an improvement in this case. brightness/contrast should end up at about -10/+10 in extended but close to 0/0 in normal, so if you switch to extended and don't recalibrate the picture looks all washed out, and some kind of contrast enhancement is needed.

I just bought the chief mount and it's pretty nice. Bought if off that popular auction site.

I got my second replacemet 8700 today from epson This one is great. It looks brand new. Pretty good convergence not perfect but good. The one thing i noticed right away is that it is much quieter than my old one. Also i cant even hear the auto iris. The old 8700 had a very annoying loud iris. This iris is basically silent. I had to freeze a movie and keep changing the iris settings to make sure it was working. Kudos to epson far fabulous customer service.

Not on an Epson, realistically.

No love for my screen question...or is it because the elite screens are so crappy to pair with this projector...and you all hate me

If I moved to a Da-Lite screen...same issue...their Matte White vs. the High Contrast slighly Gray Screen.

Movies are most important, with some sports and I can light control but with sports will have ambient light. Come on, help a guy out!

It all depends on your room. Will it be 100% light controlled with dark walls and dark ceiling? If so then go with white. If not then you can use grey to help with black levels.

If you have control over the lighting, I can't imagine the Cinetension being a poor choice. I paired my 8700 with an Elite Evanesce (non-tensioned) with a 1.1 gain. The non-tensioned screens use MaxWhite FG rather than the Cinewhite but its my understanding that they are comparable. To me, although I have no prior reference to compare to, the 8700/Evanesce go very well together. No complaints whatsoever.

Hope that helps.

Go with the white unless you will have a lot of ambient light. I have a white 1.3 gain screen I am using with my 8700 in a light controlled environment it looks amazing! I would only go with the grey if you have ambient light problems as the contrast is really good. In my room the black looks very very black. The best advice I can offer to any one who buys this projector is to read and follow Stereomandans calibration guide http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1134710
I bought a relatively inexpensive i1Display2 colorometer and following his guide I have an amazing picture that blows the stock settings which look great out of the water!