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MiniDSP - Page 65

post #1921 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

So what's with the 10x10? 10 subs?! Why did you get the plugin you did, what were the reasons?

I've seen you around Jl and know you have 2 subM's. I'm building 2 LMS's so should I get the same plugin as you?

I don't know all the functions the 10x10 can serve to be honest. I do know the balanced and unbalanced have two inputs and four outputs. But the unbalanced only has 0.9Vrms which makes it virtually a paper weight. I have read you can do a little jumper wire to increase that. I have also heard doing that little jumper can damage the unit. So that one was out for me...next was the unbalanced. Here you have to deal with Phoenix style connectors on the unit. A pro audio world connector. Anyway there are a couple cables out there and you can make the RCA to Phoenix for a few dollars. But I didn't want to have jimmy rigged little wires in my signal chain of thousands of dollars of equipment. So I went up to the open DRC AN after I learned a fellow AVS member N8dogg uses them in his 16 sub system. (He prob has a few). Now you only get two outputs with the open DRC AN but if you only have two subs what's the difference? If you got more you can always use a y connector and just make sure to have the subs on the same channel co located or equidistant to the MLP like on either side of a tv stand, or in the front corners, or on each side of the couch. Plus the open DRC has a better processor and XLR connections. I liked the secure ness of the connections.

The plugin is just a real basic user interface that you need to run your program on your computer. Each unit has it's own little plug I think
post #1922 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I don't know all the functions the 10x10 can serve to be honest. I do know the balanced and unbalanced have two inputs and four outputs. But the unbalanced only has 0.9Vrms which makes it virtually a paper weight. I have read you can do a little jumper wire to increase that. I have also heard doing that little jumper can damage the unit. So that one was out for me...next was the unbalanced. Here you have to deal with Phoenix style connectors on the unit. A pro audio world connector. Anyway there are a couple cables out there and you can make the RCA to Phoenix for a few dollars. But I didn't want to have jimmy rigged little wires in my signal chain of thousands of dollars of equipment. So I went up to the open DRC AN after I learned a fellow AVS member N8dogg uses them in his 16 sub system. (He prob has a few). Now you only get two outputs with the open DRC AN but if you only have two subs what's the difference? If you got more you can always use a y connector and just make sure to have the subs on the same channel co located or equidistant to the MLP like on either side of a tv stand, or in the front corners, or on each side of the couch. Plus the open DRC has a better processor and XLR connections. I liked the secure ness of the connections.

The plugin is just a real basic user interface that you need to run your program on your computer. Each unit has it's own little plug I think

Can you elaborate some more with regards to the Open-DRC having a better processor than the Balanced 2 by 4?
post #1923 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I don't know all the functions the 10x10 can serve to be honest. I do know the balanced and unbalanced have two inputs and four outputs. But the unbalanced only has 0.9Vrms which makes it virtually a paper weight. I have read you can do a little jumper wire to increase that. I have also heard doing that little jumper can damage the unit. So that one was out for me...next was the unbalanced. Here you have to deal with Phoenix style connectors on the unit. A pro audio world connector. Anyway there are a couple cables out there and you can make the RCA to Phoenix for a few dollars. But I didn't want to have jimmy rigged little wires in my signal chain of thousands of dollars of equipment. So I went up to the open DRC AN after I learned a fellow AVS member N8dogg uses them in his 16 sub system. (He prob has a few). Now you only get two outputs with the open DRC AN but if you only have two subs what's the difference? If you got more you can always use a y connector and just make sure to have the subs on the same channel co located or equidistant to the MLP like on either side of a tv stand, or in the front corners, or on each side of the couch. Plus the open DRC has a better processor and XLR connections. I liked the secure ness of the connections.

The plugin is just a real basic user interface that you need to run your program on your computer. Each unit has it's own little plug I think

So wait.....open DRC is a totally different product, not just a plugin? I thought you had a MiniDSP.
post #1924 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

So why the 2x4? What is the difference between that and let's say the 8x10....10x10?

I heard you need to buy plugins? Which one?

The pro amp I'm getting will have balanced in, but my AVR (onkyo tx-nr3009) has RCA out. I think you can get cables from RCA to balanced, but what is the advantage of going with balanced? Does it have anything to do with input voltage?

The 8x8 has 8 channels of input and 8 channels of output.  The 2x8 has 2 input channels and 8 outputs.  The 4x10 and the 10x10 add digital outputs or digital inputs/outputs, respectively.  Thus, the 10x10Hd has 10 in and 10 out (8 analog and 2 digital in each case).  This permits many options but, unless you need them, there is no need for them.

 

I used the 10x10Hd with a 6channel analog source (5.1) and with a 7channel analog output (5.2) to accommodate my 2 subs.  I used the unbalanced (RCA) in/outs and have yet to try the balanced (XLR) connections but I would recommend you not use RCA-XLR adapters as they are not needed and accomplish little.  Use what your connected components have.

 

The plug-ins, too, should be selected on the basis of what you are trying to accomplish.  For example, the 10x10Hd can use the 10x10 plugin, as I did, but there is also a 4x10 plugin which limits input channels but has other features including higher resolution throughput.

 

If you need a 2 channel electronic crossover for deriving sub outputs, a 2input (stereo) unit with 4outputs, the 2x4 will do that and the plugins for it: http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins

post #1925 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

So what's with the 10x10? 10 subs?! Why did you get the plugin you did, what were the reasons?

It would be hard to use the 10x10HD with 10 subs, just because I don't know of many sub amps that take a digital input. The 10x10HD has 8 analog outputs and two digital outputs.

Some people like the 8x8/10x10HD because they don't need adapters to use it with consumer gear. (It has RCA cables.) RCA adapters for the 2x4 are trivial to make. I think it also allows more delay than the 2x4 units.

Another reason to use the 8x8/10x10 is that it has both a mixer function and crossover/EQ. So one can, for example, set the LCR mains to full range in the pre-pro, feed four channels to the miniDSP (L,C,R,LFE/sub), and mix them down to fit one's subwoofer configuration. The 2x4 doesn't have the mixer. If you're using "flanking subs" to deal with floor-bounce issues, the mixer function is very useful.

The 8x8/10x10 is also ideal to provide filtering for 3 active 2-way mains and two flanking subs.

The 8x8/10x10 also has an on-board 12V trigger, whereas that's an add-on for the 2x4 boards and IIRC not available on the "in a box" variants of the 2x4.

But if you don't need/want the mixer function and are running 4 or fewer subs, the full-width units are overkill. The 2x4 Balanced is IMO a much better option, giving up basically no performance and saving significant costs. The trigger is nice, but IME you're going to want to leave any miniDSP unit on all the time (and preferably on a UPS) because they have some nasty turn on/off transients.
Edited by DS-21 - 11/3/13 at 8:34pm
post #1926 of 2293
I use the 10 x 10 for my mains, which have 3 way active crossover and the 2 subs (8 channels). Then I use the digital inputs as if they were different zones- AES goes to the DAC for my desktop speakers, and I have an extra digital out for recording. I currently use the analog inputs for additional sources; CDP, record player, etc. The digital inputs are taken up by my laptop and a coaxial from my TV.
post #1927 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

It would be hard to use the 10x10HD with 10 subs, just because I don't know of many sub amps that take a digital input. The 10x10HD has 8 analog outputs and two digital outputs.

Some people like the 8x8/10x10HD because they don't need adapters to use it with consumer gear. (It has RCA cables.) RCA adapters for the 2x4 are trivial to make. I think it also allows more delay than the 2x4 units.

Another reason to use the 8x8/10x10 is that it has both a mixer function and crossover/EQ. So one can, for example, set the LCR mains to full range in the pre-pro, feed four channels to the miniDSP (L,C,R,LFE/sub), and mix them down to fit one's subwoofer configuration. The 2x4 doesn't have the mixer. If you're using "flanking subs" to deal with floor-bounce issues, the mixer function is very useful.

The 8x8/10x10 is also ideal to provide filtering for 3 active 2-way mains and two flanking subs.

The 8x8/10x10 also has an on-board 12V trigger, whereas that's an add-on for the 2x4 boards and IIRC not available on the "in a box" variants of the 2x4.

But if you don't need/want the mixer function and are running 4 or fewer subs, the full-width units are overkill. The 2x4 Balanced is IMO a much better option, giving up basically no performance and saving significant costs. The trigger is nice, but IME you're going to want to leave any miniDSP unit on all the time (and preferably on a UPS) because they have some nasty turn on/off transients.

Sounds like the 2x4 will work fine for what I want. Now it's balanced or unbalanced. I hear the balanced has a higher output voltage? How would I figure out if I need this higher voltage? I will be running pro amps and a onkyo tx-nr3009 avr. If I run too high of a out put voltage I could be sending the amp a signal that is clipped? Do I need a volt meter or is there some spec I could look at on my amp and avr?

One thing to note is that my avr has RCA sub out, and my amp has balanced in. Should I get Phoenix connectors on the mini??

Just trying to wrap my head around this DIY stuff. Building the box is the easy part!
post #1928 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Can you elaborate some more with regards to the Open-DRC having a better processor than the Balanced 2 by 4?

Honestly I don't know what the differences are that's just what many DSP told me when we were emailing back-and-forth. I believe the titles of the different processors might be listed on the website. The big key for me was the XLR connections I just didn't want to have a half assed wired unit
post #1929 of 2293
Hi SeekingNirvana,
Quote:
Now it's balanced or unbalanced. I hear the balanced has a higher output voltage? How would I figure out if I need this higher voltage? I will be running pro amps and a onkyo tx-nr3009 avr.
From post 1920:
Quote:
Quote:
The pro amp I'm getting will have balanced in, but my AVR (onkyo tx-nr3009) has RCA out. I think you can get cables from RCA to balanced, but what is the advantage of going with balanced? Does it have anything to do with input voltage?
If you have an amplfier with balanced inputs, you will need a miniDSP with balanced outputs. A single-ended miniDSP output would not be able to drive the amplifier's input to full scale.
The fact that your amplifiers have balanced inputs means that you need the balanced miniDSP. The unbalanced will not give you enough voltage to go full-scale.
post #1930 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi SeekingNirvana,
From post 1920:
The fact that your amplifiers have balanced inputs means that you need the balanced miniDSP. The unbalanced will not give you enough voltage to go full-scale.

Thanks for pretty much answering my question twice:) ok so now I know I need the balanced mini, what do I do about the input on the mini. I'm assuming it also have a balanced jack/plug (what ever is called). Will I take a RCA to balanced cable from my avr to the mini?
post #1931 of 2293
The balanced mini has an output of 2+ volts where the unbalanced only has an output of 0.9 v. Most pro amps need the higher input, although there are some with low voltage input requirements and some with selectable input voltages that go as low as 0.775 v ( I think Pyle Pro).
post #1932 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

***ok so now I know I need the balanced mini, what do I do about the input on the mini. I'm assuming it also have a balanced jack/plug (what ever is called). Will I take a RCA to balanced cable from my avr to the mini?

I linked to my tutorial on using a balanced miniDSP with standard interconnects above.
post #1933 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

I linked to my tutorial on using a balanced miniDSP with standard interconnects above.

......got it thanks
post #1934 of 2293
Has anyone had multiple minidsp units hooked to a pc simultaneously? IOW can you select which unit you want to change settings on in the software or do you have to unplug the one you don't want to modify?

I was thinking I would keep them( 2X minidsp 2x4 Balanced) plugged into the HTPC and be able to set EQ without having to plug and unplug cables. Its this possible? It would be soooo much easier since the units will be in the rack and not easily accessible without removing face plates etc kinda a PITA......
post #1935 of 2293
Andy I hope you are around because I have a serious question that I am dying to know the answer too. What is the difference on a actual electronic scientific level between the two filter options "peak" and "Sub EQ"? I have gotten drastically different results in decay times which is extremely obvious on my waterfall and spectrogram graphs.

Subs and speakers have not moved. The only thing is I raised the crossover all the way up to 150hz.

Here is graph using peak filters


Here is using a single sub EQ filter and one single small peak filter


Both have PGM 2 engaged which is a 3db bump from 45ish hz on down on submersives. The first has a 10db low shelf filter while the second has an 8db low shelf filter.

Here are a couple other waterfalls during the development of the house curve.

post #1936 of 2293
What is the difference between sub eq and peak filters?
post #1937 of 2293
I just got my Mini DSP today and will be setting it up tonight to EQ my 4 subs and have two questions:
1. What should the sub distance setting be in the AVR since the Mini DSP will be controlling the sub distances? Should I just leave it where Audyssey set it? Does it matter at all?
2. Where should I set the gain on my subs? I've heard "max" and I've heard "definitely not max"...which is correct?
post #1938 of 2293
I let Audyssey set the distance. It adds just a little more delay. Mine went from 9 ft to 15 ft adding my Open DRC into the signal chain.

I also had to take my Submersives from about 1/5 gain volume to half way to achieve a final tolerable Audyssey trim level

The mini dsp time delay comes in handy if you don't have XT 32 with Sub EQ HT to set two different sub distances.
post #1939 of 2293
I would recommend shutting off any room correction settings in your AVR, and setting everything up first in your MiniDsp, then rerun Audyssey after finishing the settings in your Minidsp.
post #1940 of 2293
As far as process I set a low shelf filter, then made the cuts where I had peaks. I then clicked bypass on the low shelf filter, ran Audyssey. The response is fairly flat at that point. Then unbypass The low shelf filter. If you don't bypass before Audyssey then the low shelf will be flattened down. Of course it's all personal preference and what you want to do smile.gif
post #1941 of 2293
So, I got a little time last night to play around with the Mini DSP.

I'm still confused about sub distance settings - I measured the physical distance between each of my 4 subs and the MLP and input those numbers into the Mini DSP. However, I'm worried that there will be a conflict between the sub distance set by the AVR and the distances in the DSP....if the DSP is already getting a substantially delayed signal from the AVR, wouldn't adding more delay in the DSP cause some issues?

It makes sense to my brain to set the sub distance in the AVR to "0" and just let the DSP handle the delay....or is my thinking wrong (it happens quite often, surprisingly enough smile.gif )?
post #1942 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would recommend shutting off any room correction settings in your AVR, and setting everything up first in your MiniDsp, then rerun Audyssey after finishing the settings in your Minidsp.

I hope to have time tonight to do this....do you think the sub distance setting in the AVR will be substantially different than before the DSP was in the chain? I would suppose it would, with the DSP adding delay from it's own distance settings...guess I'll find out tonight!
post #1943 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

I just got my Mini DSP today and will be setting it up tonight to EQ my 4 subs and have two questions:
1. What should the sub distance setting be in the AVR since the Mini DSP will be controlling the sub distances? Should I just leave it where Audyssey set it? Does it matter at all?
2. Where should I set the gain on my subs? I've heard "max" and I've heard "definitely not max"...which is correct?

BTW, I tried max gain on the subs and it introduced too much noise....my subs were humming. I went back to gain matching all of them and after sending some REW generated filters they're measuring pretty flat....still have a lot of work to do though.
post #1944 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

2. Where should I set the gain on my subs? I've heard "max" and I've heard "definitely not max"...which is correct?

Generally, only as high as necessary.
post #1945 of 2293
Why not just let Audyssey set the distance? After all the distance Audyssey sets is really not physical distance but time delay! As long as both subs are equidistant to MLP just let Audyssey do it. Even then if you have Sub EQ HT that comes with XT 32 then you can set different distances independently then EQ as one.
post #1946 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Generally, only as high as necessary.

This is what I did I had to turn it up a bit but achieved a +0.5db final Audyssey setting
post #1947 of 2293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

I hope to have time tonight to do this....do you think the sub distance setting in the AVR will be substantially different than before the DSP was in the chain? I would suppose it would, with the DSP adding delay from it's own distance settings...guess I'll find out tonight!

My Audyssey distance went from 9ft to 15ft after I added my open DRC (mini dsp unit) into the signal chain
post #1948 of 2293
When I synchronize the configuration should I turn my Submersives off? Otherwise it makes a thud sound for each one after the other. I mute the volume and it has always been fairly quite but this last time wast much louder
post #1949 of 2293
Also, the "invert" selection is that phase?
post #1950 of 2293
Hi JL,

Sorry that I can't help with the bulk of your questions, but I can help with one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Also, the "invert" selection is that phase?
Yes, it is the same as swapping the two wires around on the speaker.

Some filters, like the second order Linkwitz–Riley (LR2) crossover, has 180 degrees of phase-shift. By setting "Invert", you can recover those 180 degrees without having to mess with the wires.
Edited by MarkHotchkiss - 11/14/13 at 7:53pm
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