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Combine Cable and OTA HD (While Keeping Internet)

post #1 of 58
10/7/10 at 7:08am
Thread Starter 
So I've done some searching and haven't found anything for my specific solution.

Right now, I have cable internet and cable TV, and installed an OTA HD Antenna.

I tried to combine (with splitters) the cable line and antenna line, and no go.
I know part of my problem is that the splitters are not combining the signal, and I also know even if it did, that the cable TV channels and antenna channels would conflict.

I'm going to cancel cable TV. I started a chat with Suddenlink and she told me that the techs do come out to the box and install a filter to filter out the Cable TV. I'm going to assume this is correct???????? If it is, that eliminates one problem.

Which leaves me with one more task... Combining the cable internet with my antenna cable. How can I go about this?

And as a bonus question. From these two combinations I need to split the signal three ways. Best way to do that? A 2-3 splitter?
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post #2 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:18am
1) cable and internet cannot be "combined" as you already know there are frequency overlaps.
2) If you cancel cable for video and retain internet and rely on an antenna (OTA) why do they need to be combined?

Run the antenna coax to the TV.
Run the internet coax to the cable modem.
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post #3 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

1) cable and internet cannot be "combined" as you already know there are frequency overlaps.
2) If you cancel cable for video and retain internet and rely on an antenna (OTA) why do they need to be combined?

Run the antenna coax to the TV.
Run the internet coax to the cable modem.

Because they're run through the same line, and once they hit the TV there is a splitter, one to the modem, one to the TV.
It's a two story townhouse and it's a MAJOR (IE, I'm not even going to attempt it) PITA to run a new cable to that TV.
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post #4 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:37am
Then it is NOT going to work.

I'd suggest doing it before it gets cold.
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post #5 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:39am
Thread Starter 
So Cable Internet and a signal from an antenna can't co-exist on the same line at all?

If that's true then my question is... How does the cable company do it?
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post #6 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:40am
I need some clarification... Are you getting your cable TV channels through a STB or are you getting the channels from your QAM tuner?
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post #7 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

I need some clarification... Are you getting your cable TV channels through a STB or are you getting the channels from your QAM tuner?

Right now they're coming in through a STB (but they can also come in on the QAM tuner). But I will eliminate the cable TV service and Suddenlink assures me they install a filter at their box to filter out the cable TV service when I cancel it. (And I did ask, and they do sent a tech out on a service call to do that, which gives merit to this claim).

So, IN THE FUTURE: All I will have coming in from Suddenlink is a Cable Internet signal, no TV signals.
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post #8 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieSooner View Post

So Cable Internet and a signal from an antenna can't co-exist on the same line at all?

If that's true then my question is... How does the cable company do it?

They remodulate the antenna signal into QAM.
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post #9 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:47am
Doesn't matter... cable and OTA can not typically coexist on the same coax feed.
The cableco's retransmit OTA and cable channels at the headend (source).

If it's that much trouble to run a dedicated line from the antenna, then just subscribe to the lowest level cable subscription (lifeline/antenna service). Then you have to do nothing. That will get most all the same "local channels" that you'd be getting with an antenna as well as internet.
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post #10 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieSooner View Post

Because they're run through the same line, and once they hit the TV there is a splitter, one to the modem, one to the TV.
It's a two story townhouse and it's a MAJOR (IE, I'm not even going to attempt it) PITA to run a new cable to that TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieSooner View Post

Right now they're coming in through a STB (but they can also come in on the QAM tuner). But I will eliminate the cable TV service and Suddenlink assures me they install a filter at their box to filter out the cable TV service when I cancel it. (And I did ask, and they do sent a tech out on a service call to do that, which gives merit to this claim).

So, IN THE FUTURE: All I will have coming in from Suddenlink is a Cable Internet signal, no TV signals.

Oh wow! That's an awkward situation. This is my personal recommendation-

1) Run the coax cable to the internet modem.
2) Buy an indoor OTA antenna and hook it up directly to your TV.

The latter will cost you, but it's the easiest solution.
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post #11 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

They remodulate the antenna signal into QAM.

Then why do I see threads about combining cable TV and OTA (Not what I'm wanting to do, I'm just saying...) conflicting on the same frequencies/channels and overlapping? It seems like cable TV and the OTA antenna use the same things, so that's why I'm just not understanding why replacing the Cable TV signal with an OTA Antenna wouldn't work, and not interfere with the internet or vice-versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Doesn't matter... cable and OTA can not typically coexist on the same coax feed.
The cableco's retransmit OTA and cable channels at the headend (source).

I'm not wanting to have cable TV and OTA exist on the same coax feed.
I'm wanting cable internet and OTA to exist on the same feed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

If it's that much trouble to run a dedicated line from the antenna, then just subscribe to the lowest level cable subscription (lifeline/antenna service). Then you have to do nothing. That will get most all the same "local channels" that you'd be getting with an antenna as well as internet.

Lowest level is still $40/mo. And eliminating the $10/mo STB eliminates HD and SD on a 73" TV looks like crap, don't want to do that.
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post #12 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Oh wow! That's an awkward situation. This is my personal recommendation-

1) Run the coax cable to the internet modem.
2) Buy an indoor OTA antenna and hook it up directly to your TV.

The latter will cost you, but it's the easiest solution.

I'm 70 miles away from the towers, indoor antennas won't work. I already had a thread here on AVS about which antenna setup I needed, and I got what I need (haven't been able to get it working since this problem put itself in my way).
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post #13 of 58
10/7/10 at 8:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieSooner View Post

I'm not wanting to have cable TV and OTA exist on the same coax feed.
I'm wanting cable internet and OTA to exist on the same feed.

Doesn't matter. Cable is cable and OTA is OTA. Two separate things!
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post #14 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechieSooner View Post

I'm 70 miles away from the towers, indoor antennas won't work. I already had a thread here on AVS about which antenna setup I needed, and I got what I need (haven't been able to get it working since this problem put itself in my way).

Then use the coax cable for the OTA signal and have the cable company run you a new cable for the internet.

This happened to me once when I was switching cable companies. When I switched to RCN, they stole Time Warner's cable line and screwed everything up. When I went back to Time Warner, they had to run a whole new cable line for me.

Of course, it will cost you, but at least you won't have to be the one to do the work.
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post #15 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:08am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHT View Post

Then use the coax cable for the OTA signal and have the cable company run you a new cable for the internet.

This happened to me once when I was switching cable companies. When I switched to RCN, they stole Time Warner's cable line and screwed everything up. When I went back to Time Warner, they had to run a whole new cable line for me.

Of course, it will cost you, but at least you won't have to be the one to do the work.

The wall the TV is on is a two story wall (IE, there's a horizontal header halfway down a two story wall). Running a cable is near impossible.

Another option I was thinking about is wirelessly bridging the cable internet (IE, the modem would have to go in a different location to where I could dedicate that line to it), but wireless is messy and sticking a modem/router in the attic with dust is less than ideal.

So this is 100% for sure though? There's no way cable internet signal and antenna can exist on the same line of coax?
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post #16 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:10am
Mr HT - if you're not aware of the problems of combining cable and OTA - please refrain from suggesting that Techiesooner do so. It simply wlll not work - the cable company will disconnect the cable internet because of signal ingress.

Somehow, techiesooner will need to provide 2 seperate coax feeds - one for his internet, and one for the antenna to get his OTA locals 70 miles away.
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post #17 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Mr HT - if you're not aware of the problems of combining cable and OTA - please refrain from suggesting that Techiesooner do so. It simply wlll not work - the cable company will disconnect the cable internet because of signal ingress.

Somehow, techiesooner will need to provide 2 seperate coax feeds - one for his internet, and one for the antenna to get his OTA locals 70 miles away.

Well, I'm chatting with Suddenlink and they say it's $58 for interior walls and $30 for exterior walls (WTF... I even clarified this and they said it was true, oh well) for a new outlet. Even if it is the $60, I'd happily pay that to get that cable run.

The laws of physics still apply though. I don't know how the crap that guy will run a cable to that TV. I guess I could see and find out... Maybe they have tricks I don't think about.
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post #18 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:32am
Since you don't have a technical background, explaining why technically has no purpose. Simply take it as a fact you can't combine cable and antenna signals. Even if the cableco filters out the TV signals.

Run two cables.
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post #19 of 58
10/7/10 at 9:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Since you don't have a technical background, explaining why technically has no purpose. Simply take it as a fact you can't combine cable and antenna signals. Even if the cableco filters out the TV signals.

Run two cables.

OK. I have an appointment tomorrow.
Pessimistic side of me expects them to arrive and say that the cable run will be impossible.
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post #20 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:00am
I don't know what you want but:
1) at 70 miles from the x-mitters, OTA is not easily obtained.
2) most cableco's provide "locals only" and internet ~$60 per month.
3) if you have a clear QAM (digital cable) tuner in your TV, you can get locals in HD as well as internet using the existing cabling.
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post #21 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I don't know what you want but:
1) at 70 miles from the x-mitters, OTA is not easily obtained.
2) most cableco's provide "locals only" and internet ~$60 per month.
3) if you have a clear QAM (digital cable) tuner in your TV, you can get locals in HD as well as internet using the existing cabling.

Thanks. I was just behind you....
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post #22 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:07am
Of course!

I guess the next question to be asked... what is the make/model of the OP's TV? (just to verify the type of tuner)
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post #23 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

I don't know what you want but:
1) at 70 miles from the x-mitters, OTA is not easily obtained.
2) most cableco's provide "locals only" and internet ~$60 per month.
3) if you have a clear QAM (digital cable) tuner in your TV, you can get locals in HD as well as internet using the existing cabling.

1) Someone a block from me is doing it from their attic just fine, family has done it in town before, too.
2) As I said before, it's still $40/mo just for the TV.
3) I do have a Clear QAM in both the Hauppage tuner in my HTPC but it does not detect any HD channels at all.
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post #24 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:14am
Heh... too many questions/deviations (do you want TV and HTPC?) and IMHO you have already made up your mind. Good luck with your journey.

I expect to see some posts down the road about antenna reception.
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post #25 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Heh... too many questions and IMHO you have already made up your mind. Good luck with your journey.

I expect to see some posts down the road about antenna reception.

Yea, I'm not paying $$$ to the cable company so yea, I've already made up my mind. I had already tested to see if I could get HD without the STB (just for the heck of it) and no... You cannot. LOL.

I might have posts down the road about reception but I hope not. Seems to be fairly straight forward.
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post #26 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:23am
What's the make/model of your TV?
What's the make/model of your HTPC tuner?
What antenna do you have (or intend to use)?
Where will the antenna be mounted?
Where do you live (zip code)? (check tvfool.com is souce for OTA info).
And on and on...
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post #27 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

What's the make/model of your TV?
What's the make/model of your HTPC tuner?
What antenna do you have (or intend to use)?
Where will the antenna be mounted?
Where do you live (zip code)? (check tvfool.com is souce for OTA info).
And on and on...

I had another multi-page thread with all of that here.


Got the antenna suggested so I'll give it a shot.
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post #28 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Mr HT - if you're not aware of the problems of combining cable and OTA - please refrain from suggesting that Techiesooner do so. It simply wlll not work - the cable company will disconnect the cable internet because of signal ingress.

???
I never suggested that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooper View Post

Somehow, techiesooner will need to provide 2 seperate coax feeds - one for his internet, and one for the antenna to get his OTA locals 70 miles away.

That's exactly what I suggested. I told him to have the cable company run a separate coax line for him, not combine them.
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post #29 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:32am
LOL!
Have fun.

As a suggestion... ask a moderator to merge the two threads. Same topic and avoids confusion.
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post #30 of 58
10/7/10 at 11:44am
Techiesooner...I'm pulling for you...Keep us posted...
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