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Streaming Bluray over 100baseT

post #1 of 23
10/13/10 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
Alright so i have a home server full of MKV 1080p movies. (USB 2.0 shared hard drive connected to a PC) They are all at full blu-ray bit rate and 1080p resolution. Im trying to stream these files to my macbook via 100baseT ethernet.

While trying to stream these files to my macbook I keep experiencing this annoying stuttering. The network buffer runs out very quickly i tried to change the buffer value in Halii Media Splitter, that didn't work i'm still getting the stuttering.

My router and macbook are both capable of gigabit ethernet but my server PC is not. It probably doesn't matter but it is a 802.11n router. Im using Windows 7 on boot camp. Im trying to play these movies with media player classic with coreAVC.

First thought was that my hardware isn't powerful enough to playback the movie but when i copied the movie to the internal drive it played fine so its not a hardware issue.

The question is now, does 100baseT ethernet have enough bandwidth to stream a 40mbps file over the network?

I googled it multiple times and 9/10 answers say it should be more then enough bandwidth yet i'm still getting this annoying stuttering.

Anyone got any ideas? More cache ? faster network ?

Hardware Specs:

Macbook (2008)
2.4 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo
2 gigs of DDR2 RAM.
160 gig HD

(running windows 7 ultimate 32bit)

Server PC
Dell Inspiron
2.6something ghz HD
2 gigs of ram
320 gig HD

Router

Cisco (Linksys)
E2000
Gigabit
802.11n


Any input would be greatly appreciated

Jon
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post #2 of 23
10/13/10 at 5:59pm
Yes, it's fast enough. A lot of people do it all the time.

None of the hardware streamers support gigbit, yet (most) all of them playback BR rips without issue.

Your issue may be with your network, but it isn't specifically with 100baseT.

-Suntan
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post #3 of 23
10/13/10 at 6:00pm
So, three things come to mind:

1) I'm sure you've checked, but my Mac has an annoying tendency to decide I want to connect over wireless when I tell it to prefer my wired connection. Maybe it's user error on my part, but I think it's more how it wakes up from sleep and the fact my wired connection is odd. Regardless, make sure you aren't on wireless on the Mac.

2) I don't know what the Linksys really has on board, but try to get a cheap-o Ethernet switch. If you have a store nearby with a return policy, try that. Plug the Mac and the server into the switch, not the Linksys and then plug the switch into the Linksys. If the Linksys is a hub (not a switch) or has a garbage switch in it, this should isolate that. In fact, you can try with the switch only and then add the router back in later.

3) Finally, make sure the Mac isn't doing something that's pinging the internet while this is happening. When you hard connect you mitigate that issue because your movie is not on your home network at all.
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post #4 of 23
10/13/10 at 6:43pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the fast replies guys

1. I did check the wireless issue you were talking about i made sure i disabled wifi and only used the wired lan.

2. I did this while no one but me was on the network so there was no other interference.

3. as far as a switch goes i could try that but i dont think thats the problem because when i do simple file sharing from network to laptop i get about 12 MB/s which multiplied by 8 is about the 100mbps i should be getting so i dont think raw throughput is an issue.

*What i will try probalbly tommaro afternoon is i have my old wireless g router that has 100baseT ethernet on it hook that one up and try to stream over that router. Like i said i dont think its a router issue because throughput is where it should be but ill give it a go just to rule that out.
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post #5 of 23
10/14/10 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
Today I hooked up my old router that has 100baseT ethernet and i had the same problem the movie continued to stutter. Just as i thought the network is working fine its not a router/bandwidth problem. Which leads me to believe that mabey Media Player Classic is not cacheing aggressivly enough, im not sure.

If anyone has any suggestions on software options that would be great.
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post #6 of 23
10/14/10 at 12:37pm
What about Macbook hardware? Everyone is thinking network, but Im thinking video performance. The processor is fast enough, but with no video hardware to unload on, it might be too much bitrate for it.

My C2Duo 8600 on my work cpu doesnt have enough horsepower for high rate 1080p movies.

It'd be tough to diagnose unless you have a stronger cpu with a video card on the same network and can test.

btw...Im a hockey guy too. Gotta help out fans/players. Everyone knows we need it
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post #7 of 23
10/14/10 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpthockey03 View Post

Today I hooked up my old router that has 100baseT ethernet and i had the same problem the movie continued to stutter. Just as i thought the network is working fine its not a router/bandwidth problem. Which leads me to believe that mabey Media Player Classic is not cacheing aggressivly enough, im not sure.

If anyone has any suggestions on software options that would be great.

How many other devices are accessing your 100Mb/s network? I know on my network, which is gigabit, if I had all my network cameras on the same leg as my media players I would have some issues. Even though the backbone is gigabit.

By keeping my media players and media storage on a seperate leg of my network, I have no issues streaming three BD ISOs concurrently to my media players.
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post #8 of 23
10/14/10 at 1:40pm
Thread Starter 
Well the thing with macbook hardware could totally be true. I recently installed windows simply cause i wanted to try coreavc it was supposed to be a really efficient H.264 decoder. Since my CPU doesnt have a graphics card to back it up. However so far i've been happy with the results of coreAVC. Granted the CPU is working to the limit but for the most part it plays back the movie without stuttering from either the local drive or a USB 2.0 drive. So that might have some sort of an impact but i wouldn't think that because it plays ok on HD and stutters over network ???

I do have other devices connected to the network.
I've got my laptop via ethernet my brothers xbox live my dads laptop wireless a printer and my server pc of course. However when im doing these tests my brother is off xbox my dads not even home and the printer is turned off. Would it make a difference if i unplugged those devices my thought would be no but i could be wrong ???

PS - love hockey. i play high school hockey and im a big fan of the devils
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post #9 of 23
10/14/10 at 2:11pm
I was thinking on the network and in use.
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post #10 of 23
10/14/10 at 2:55pm
I thought we ruled out the hardware of the Macbook based on you playing movies just fine over USB. That test is valid. Yea, the network throughput of the machine could suck, but I doubt it sucks enough on its own to be the bottleneck.
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post #11 of 23
10/14/10 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
I am able to play the movie fine over usb but just barely like i said im only using windows for coreavc because i dont have a graphics card to help CPU so yes they play fine but just barely. So yes i really doubt it is a hardware issue.

Due to the fact that i get the full network throughput when doing file transfers i wouldnt think its the network.

My thought is mabey Media player classic isnt caching enough?

Im using media player classic with coreAVC, halii media splitter, and AC3filter for audio. That combo gives me the best playback.

Does anyone have any experiece with Media Player Classic and/or using it to stream videos.
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post #12 of 23
10/14/10 at 4:28pm
Did you try other players like VLC?
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post #13 of 23
10/14/10 at 4:37pm
Thread Starter 
Just a quick update i switched back to my old 802.11g router because the new one was giving my father reception issues. Old router is a linksys router that supports 100mbps ethernet no gigabit. But since we were using that same speed connection anyway it should make no difference. Hope radioshack has a good return policy

Yes I did try to use VLC. I got mixed results. On OSX VLC is my go to player. the only problem is it doesnt support multithreaded decoding (its only using one of my two cores.) I tryed it on Windows and the weird thing is the video doesnt play smooth network or hard drive however it seems to stream the whole video over the network and just has issues decoding it.

Which leads me to believe media player classic (with coreAVC) does not have a large enough network cache.

I tryed playing around with the cache in halii media splitter but i really didnt get very far.

Does anyone know how to make Media player classic's cache bigger ?
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post #14 of 23
10/15/10 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpthockey03 View Post

Just a quick update i switched back to my old 802.11g router because the new one was giving my father reception issues. Old router is a linksys router that supports 100mbps ethernet no gigabit. But since we were using that same speed connection anyway it should make no difference. Hope radioshack has a good return policy

Yes I did try to use VLC. I got mixed results. On OSX VLC is my go to player. the only problem is it doesnt support multithreaded decoding (its only using one of my two cores.) I tryed it on Windows and the weird thing is the video doesnt play smooth network or hard drive however it seems to stream the whole video over the network and just has issues decoding it.

Which leads me to believe media player classic (with coreAVC) does not have a large enough network cache.

I tryed playing around with the cache in halii media splitter but i really didnt get very far.

Does anyone know how to make Media player classic's cache bigger ?

I wish I knew about media player classic. Im a fan of vlc myself.

Im still thinking hardware issues. It takes more cpu power to run something through a network than it does from an internal hard drive/usb. Good example? Look at the sigma chipsets and how they have "gigabit" nic. However, the processor isnt strong enough to run gigabit speeds and play video.

The more video you need to cache, the more memory and cpu cycles it'll be wanting. Without some graphics hardware to unload some of that demand on, you might just be a tad out of luck. Only graphics hardware from the last 2-ish generations have been able to claim blu ray playback. These types of video files just werent mainstream yet 3-4 years ago.

Hate to continue to see you get frustrated over something that may be somewhat impossible. You might have to either re-encode to a slightly lower bitrate or what for programs to become more efficient.

Ps - Im 30 now and have been playing hockey for about 20 years. Big Wings fan too
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post #15 of 23
10/15/10 at 12:16pm
Thread Starter 
You know you are probably right. I know when i looked this up on google everyone that said they got this to work was using either a WDTV or a popcorn hour, or apple tv or somekind of media streaming box, not a computer. My real motive is yeah bluray playback on my laptop is great but what i really wanted was to eventually purchase a DLNA box sometime in the future the real reason why i wanted this to work was to check to see if my network is strong enough. But i guess my test is not valid. Another thing i wanted was to stream it over wireless but i realized shortly after getting an 802.11n router that wasn't gonna happen either. So im gonna chalk it up to my CPU isnt strong enough the network is fine and ill leave the network streaming to either a roku or apple tv or something in the future.
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post #16 of 23
10/15/10 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpthockey03 View Post

You know you are probably right. I know when i looked this up on google everyone that said they got this to work was using either a WDTV or a popcorn hour, or apple tv or somekind of media streaming box, not a computer. My real motive is yeah bluray playback on my laptop is great but what i really wanted was to eventually purchase a DLNA box sometime in the future the real reason why i wanted this to work was to check to see if my network is strong enough. But i guess my test is not valid. Another thing i wanted was to stream it over wireless but i realized shortly after getting an 802.11n router that wasn't gonna happen either. So im gonna chalk it up to my CPU isnt strong enough the network is fine and ill leave the network streaming to either a roku or apple tv or something in the future.

Good idea! Save a headache. Save 2 headaches by learning that full blu rays wont be streaming over wireless anytime soon either.
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post #17 of 23
10/15/10 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by twan69666 View Post

Good idea! Save a headache. Save 2 headaches by learning that full blu rays wont be streaming over wireless anytime soon either.

You can if you setup the wireless correctly by doing a proper wireless survey which will give you the optimal AP/Bridge placemnet and optimal channel to use at each location(and of course limiting wireless connections while streaming). But in a typical wireless setup, streaming a BD title will not work.
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post #18 of 23
10/15/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

You can if you setup the wireless correctly by doing a proper wireless survey which will give you the optimal AP/Bridge placemnet and optimal channel to use at each location(and of course limiting wireless connections while streaming). But in a typical wireless setup, streaming a BD title will not work.

I can stream the birds video clip to my C200 either wireless ( internal MN-200) at the 5GHz band or wired. Wired and wireless seem similar in my case for that device.

Are there test clips similar to what you are trying to do?

philip
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post #19 of 23
10/15/10 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

I can stream the birds video clip to my C200 either wireless ( internal MN-200) at the 5GHz band or wired. Wired and wireless seem similar in my case for that device.

Are there test clips similar to what you are trying to do?

philip

What about a consistent stream, like from a BD ISO title? That is what can be difficult.

I don't have the wireless adaptor for my C200 so I have no experience with it.
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post #20 of 23
10/15/10 at 3:17pm
Thread Starter 
The wireless streaming thing really no longer matters because my father was having reception issues with wireless n so I took that router back to the store
So I'm back to using wireless g and it's really not a big deal. As long as I am able to stream the movie to a set top box via wired connection. And everyone sais It can be done just not on the laptop because my CPU isn't strong enough. I look forward to trying a set top box.

Thank you all for all the help I really appreciate it.
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post #21 of 23
10/15/10 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

What about a consistent stream, like from a BD ISO title? That is what can be difficult.

I don't have the wireless adaptor for my C200 so I have no experience with it.

Sorry, I don't have immediate access to Blu-Ray disks ( since I don't have a player) and so I have no way of testing that. I don't see why there would be a problem unless other things were happening on the wireless network. That is the big advantage of wired (it's more robust to other activities). I pretty well have the 5GHz wireless isolated for media use. The other wireless usages use another access point and they are either G or 2.4N. I have transferred a lot of data from a NAS to the C200 over wireless and it was essentially the same as wired. The question is whether you would maintain a greater than 60mpps say over the whole period. The transfer rate overall was around 70mbs but I can't recall measuring the minimum. Caching would help a bit. There must be a way of testing this. I can record 1080p HD stuff at a fairly high bit rate but the audio is not HD so that wouldn't be a good test.

philip
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post #22 of 23
10/17/10 at 3:35am
Sorry if this was mentioned somewhere already but I had a similar issue as you've described. My suggestion, to at least diagnose this theory, is to make all components wired. Macbook and Server. If the problem goes away viola, there's your problem. What corrected the wireless stuttering video problem for me was modifying some buffer setting in VLC player. Unfortunately, can't remember where off the top of my head.
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post #23 of 23
10/17/10 at 4:21am
Thread Starter 
I tried using vlc and the stuttering continued but only cause of the CPU wasn't strong enough which I think is my problem with media player classic as well however if u say u got it to work over wireless with a big cache all you gotta do is go into vlc preferences and click advanced I think under access modules you click file and it will say like file cache and then under it extra network cache I use both at 1000 but u can use whatever works for you.

PS the setup I was using was completely wired which leads mr to believe it is a CPU issue.
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