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Funky Waves Audio - Official Thread (Prebuilt and Custom Subs) - Page 12

post #331 of 703
My comments earlier did not play out like I had intended so a little clarification from myself is in order.

Nathan Funk and Funk Audio Represent the Ultimate in Subwoofer offerings. This man designs and builds his own amps, drivers, and enclosures. To my knowledge he is the only one doing this. Simply Amazing !!!
He is truly an audio genius and a pioneer in the field of custom powered subwoofers. He is a custom designer/builder with a few "off the shelf offerings" and his products quality command respect. That is why it is damn near impossible to compare his FA 18.0 to the Subm HP. They are for different people and different situations. When a consumer has to make a choice as to which one to go with in comes the comparision. Whether valid or not a choice has to be made.
Now as to which one to choose? If I lived in Canada Funk is the obvious choice. I have a pair of SubM HP's and my main reason was I live in the United States then 2nd was the $$$$ savings.
If the choice was a pair of SubM HP's or a pair of FA 18.0 with no money difference The desicion would be easy(for me anyway).
Pictures of Funk Audio products always make me smile. I can only think of one other thing that does that.
These are good days in audio.
Chris
Edited by countryWV - 11/28/12 at 6:32am
post #332 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

That is why it is damn near impossible to compare his FA 18.0 to the Subm HP. They are for different people and different situations. When a consumer has to make a choice as to which one to go with in comes the comparision. Whether valid or not a choice has to be made.

FWIW, as a consumer of products, I get to do anything I want in any fashion I want, without equivocation as everything I do is valid.

It's not nice to beat up on people and their egos and then expect them to like it.

I have absolutely no trouble making valid comparisons between SubMersive and Funk Audio products. Comparing similar products, using dissimilar features in which to do so, is not complicated nor to be considered an invalid evaluative process. In the short, yes, one can compare apples to oranges or even coconuts if one wants. As to where a product is made, those days are long dead and gone. It's an international market place, has been for decades and consumers need to get a grip on this point and do so every time they enter an electronics store to make a purchase.

mad.gif

confused.gif

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/27/12 at 7:23am
post #333 of 703
BeeMan
My comments have nothing to do with any of your posts.
I felt like my earlier posts could be read as negative and I wanted to clarify what I thought.
Me saying something like "valid or not" is trying to take the high road on both sides.
If I ever feel the need to direct a comment your way YOU WILL KNOW IT.
Please accept my apologies for our misunderstanding.
Chris

I had to make this choice on which one to go with myself.
I just read the interrnational part and again clarity is in order.
If you live in Canada it costa extra to ship from the U.S.
If you live in the U.S. it costs extra to have it sent from Canada.
But there is nothing wrong with Patriotism. A man should always be proud of his country.
Edited by countryWV - 11/27/12 at 8:00am
post #334 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Please accept my apologies for our misunderstanding.

Thanks as based on what I had posted, it sure came across as a backhanded comment.

Quote:
I had to make this choice on which one to go with myself.

And I fault no one for their choices. At their price point, JTR, SubMersive and Funk Audio are top-dog contenders with, in my opinion, neither being the better of the other as each has their own design and as you stated, serve different purposes.

Some around here are a bit too quick to jump all over others as you, I and everybody else on the other side of the monitor are real people with real feelings.
post #335 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

I had to make this choice on which one to go with myself.

They're certainly making things more interesting now with their expanded offerings. If the 18.0C and 18.1 had been around when I was looking, I'd have definitely given them a second (and probably a third) look.
post #336 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks as based on what I had posted, it sure came across as a backhanded comment.
And I fault no one for their choices. At their price point, JTR, SubMersive and Funk Audio are top-dog contenders with, in my opinion, neither being the better of the other as each has their own design and as you stated, serve different purposes.
.
Exactly. You got that right!
They represent The Best of the ID subwoofer and speaker makers.
Even though the products seem expensive they offer extreme value for their intended purpose. Especially when compared to others in
that price range.
Chris
post #337 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

They're certainly making things more interesting now with their expanded offerings. If the 18.0C and 18.1 had been around when I was looking, I'd have definitely given them a second (and probably a third) look.
Even though I have a pair of SubM HP'S I still think about the FA18.0 and the Cap S2 everyday.
I would like to own them all !!
Funk Audio has sure made things alot more exciting.
Chris
post #338 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

I would like to own them all !!

They followed me home honey, can I keep them. tongue.gif
post #339 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Even though I have a pair of SubM HP'S I still think about the FA18.0 and the Cap S2 everyday.
I would like to own them all !!

I know how that goes. My PB13U gives me more than enough output for my tastes/lifestyle (which is fairly mild mannered next to a lot of the guys on this forum), and yet I still spend plenty of time ogling other subs. It's like women; once you've seen one naked....you want to see all the rest (maybe not all...) biggrin.gif
post #340 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve1981 View Post

I know how that goes. My PB13U gives me more than enough output for my tastes/lifestyle (which is fairly mild mannered next to a lot of the guys on this forum), and yet I still spend plenty of time ogling other subs. It's like women; once you've seen one naked....you want to see all the rest (maybe not all...) biggrin.gif

A desire that naturally harkens back to third grade. tongue.gif Nothing wrong with ogling, it's getting caught that ruins the date.

OTOH, as long as it's not ruining the bank account, getting new toys is always a good thing. This morning I received a mailing notice that the Anti-Mode was on it's way. biggrin.gif
post #341 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

Thanks, Mark!
I myself am one of the first owners of Nathan's/your TSAD. I ordered what is now the 2012 18.3. I am a bit puzzled about the ground plane measurements Nathan posted. I was hoping for a larger difference between 18.0 and 18.3 in the 15Hz-35hz range (the one the PRs are supporting). Nathan speaks of twice the output - but +3db isn't twice the output even if 2 18.0 are located several feet from each other (you will still get almost +6db at 15Hz-20Hz). With co-locating 2 18.0s you get +6db over the entire passband.
What would be really interesting is measured data from TC-Sounds 5400 and 5100. Did you include those in your ground plane measurement session? Thanks!

Due to the dual opposed passive radiator configuration on the 18.3 the ground plane testing produces slightly lower numbers in the range the passives are doing most of the work. See this article;
http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=77#!prettyPhoto
post #342 of 703
Nathan, out of curiosity, have you hooked an Anti-ModeS II up to a pair of your subs to see what you could see? And if you have, what did you find? I have one in transit as I post. According to tracking data, it should be here today.

Another curiosity question, what RTA are you using? Currently I have mic, stand and phantom power supply on order. Having downloaded REW, I'm wondering what software you use.

Thanks.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 11/28/12 at 7:35am
post #343 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko View Post

Doing a bit of digging you find that Mark Seaton uses the Lab 15 driver.
No, no he doesn't. He uses a driver of his own design that is manufactured by Eminence, and that is "proprietary" and not used in any other commercial offering. The simulations you posted in a subsequent are not representative of the capabilities of the drivers used in the Submersive.

Craig
post #344 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Nathan, out of curiosity, have you hooked an Anti-ModeS II up to a pair of your subs to see what you could see? And if you have, what did you find? I have one in transit as I post. According to tracking data, it should be here today.
Another curiosity question, what RTA are you using? Currently I have mic, stand and phantom power supply on order. Having downloaded REW, I'm wondering what software you use.
Thanks.
-

I have been meaning to but have just been far to busy to get time, and for my own use I manually EQ with the DSP built into our amps anyway. We use a variety of measurement gear depending on what we are doing, subs/speakers, how fast vs. how accurate etc. I have used REW in the past, and it seems to work well when setup correctly.
post #345 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

I have been meaning to but have just been far to busy to get time, and for my own use I manually EQ with the DSP built into our amps anyway. We use a variety of measurement gear depending on what we are doing, subs/speakers, how fast vs. how accurate etc. I have used REW in the past, and it seems to work well when setup correctly.

Thanks! The Anti-Mode came in and between Anti-Mode and Audyssey, find it does an excellent job of helping dial in the room's subwoofer acoustics. FYI, after running a calibration of the room using the installed Anti-Mode box, with your measuring gear, I can't say an Anti-Mode for you would be a benefit but I can say from a consumer's perspective, it's definitely a benefit.

Now if I can figure these RTA programs out.

Besides ..." a variety of measurement gear....." are you able to say what RTA you use or is this proprietary information? I'd like to know so I know I'm doing the best I can at home with the gear I recently acquired.

When I have the monies, I'd like to pick up a pair of your 18.0 C's. I'm not rich and I know it. I'm a nobody and I know it. I know you have no reason to care what I think. I know you're doing me a favor by even posting anything to my question. In the meantime, I picked up a set of measuring gear to measure what subs I'm currently using; learning, practice. The point, it's kinda hard to practice/learn at home when one doesn't know what the best RTA program is to measure their room with. Straight answers are appreciated. If you can't say because it's proprietary, I understand but I for one am tired of all the business cloak and dagger stuff as everybody tries to keep the consumer in the dark when it comes to straight forward questions. Forgive my frustration. Straight forward answers are appreciated. If you don't want to answer my question, please, just say so because non-answers take the fun out of the pursuit on knowledge.

If need be, drop me an off the record PM so I can get some decent software ordered. That would be kind of you.

Currently, using the sub's gain control, I balance our subs output with a sound meter, run Anti-Mode, 8033S II and set the 25-35Hz boost because our subs are not efficient enough to take benefit of a lower frequency boost. Following Anti-mode, I run Audyssey, MultEQ XT finalizing the process by seasoning the final internal AVR gain, once again with the sound meter. My quest is to see the acoustics of the room, before and after all of this is done. And to my detractors, yes, I know I'm no expert but I do know what I am, somebody who's sincerely trying.

In my opinion, with my limited experience, I'm not impressed with REW or TrueRTA. Still taking the time to learn the programs to see if it's me or them. My thinking, I'll ask the company who's subs I wish to buy so I'll be working with what they work with because I figure I'll get straight answers, get the best realtime analyzing program for my needs and then be able to finally see the room acoustics on screen. From my perspective, the GUI's (overall command interface) on these RTA's are put together by amateurs as opposed to professionals catering to the consuming public.

If I didn't care about the quality of output and looks of the subwoofer, I'd be looking to lesser, less expensive products, forgo testing equipment purchases, eliminate the frustrations of the learning curve and be done with it.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/4/12 at 5:29am
post #346 of 703
Beeman; As I said we use several things some of which are out of the reach of consumers both in cost and complexity, and it would take to long to explain what we use for what and why and yes some of what we have/use/do is proprietary. I have used/tried most of what is out there, and what I normally recommend to consumers depends on their ability and budget, REW works well but does take some learning and setup to get right especially if you have no frame of reference to make sure you've got it setup right it could be frustrating, but it is the most cost effective. So far the most consumer friendly, and easy to setup and use, and when compared to the professional measuring equipment is quite accurate, is the OmniMic, downside is it is not cheap.
post #347 of 703
@ craig john

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwmkravchenko View Post
Quote:
Doing a bit of digging you find that Mark Seaton uses the Lab 15 driver.

No, no he doesn't. He uses a driver of his own design that is manufactured by Eminence, and that is "proprietary" and not used in any other commercial offering. The simulations you posted in a subsequent are not representative of the capabilities of the drivers used in the Submersive.

Craig

I must ask what you are driving at.

The simulations are based on Sd or surface area of the cone against the possible excursion.

So given that it has been stated many times that the driver uses the same cone, basket and surround as the LAB15 There is no greater limiter of peak forward movement than the surround.

How do I know this?

I built my first driver in 1987, did transducer design work in 97 and have been doing it for the last 5 years daily.

So to state this in a concise sentence.

Same cone, so it has the same surface area.

Same surround, so it has the same possible mechanical excursion.

Maximum SPL is a function of volume displacement. That is basically all the calculations are derived from. The only other variable that will effect the output is the volume behind the cone within the box. That is a rather simple volume calculation.

The comparison was very fair, and in fact as I checked other sources of tests for this driver I found the graphs I posted are actually a bit better than the actual figures the Seaton sub can produce.

I did not want to create a competitor bashing bit of none sense. But base the figures on the best available information.

The numbers stand in a reasonably understood framework that anybody else can create if they do a little bit of backward engineering.

Mark

Consultant and Designer

kravchenko-audio.com
post #348 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

I have used/tried most of what is out there, and what I normally recommend to consumers depends on their ability and budget, REW works well but does take some learning and setup to get right especially if you have no frame of reference to make sure you've got it setup right it could be frustrating, but it is the most cost effective. So far the most consumer friendly, and easy to setup and use, and when compared to the professional measuring equipment is quite accurate, is the OmniMic, downside is it is not cheap.

Moving forward with this quest, I have two fifty foot cables on order so as to get the frequency sweep signals from the computer to the Home Theater system in the living room where the sound reproduction system is located and back again to the computer so as to see and interpret the results. The ordered cables will be here on Thursday. Yes, by choice I still have an emotional attachment to desktop computers (the ability to easily upgrade and modify to taste) while the wife and son use individualized laptop technology. In our household, these truly are "personal" computers.

Cost wise, I currently have a rounded $225.00 (omnidirectional microphone, cables, microphone stand and stereo phantom power supply) into this odyssey with an additional purchase outlay of $450.00 for an Anti-Mode, 8033S II. Total cost to improve by control and understand a room's bass response by measurement, $675.00. This, when compared to a pair of your 18.0 C subwoofers, constitutes what I consider to be, reasonable pre-purchase setup expenses.

Before ordering a pair of what I consider to be very expensive subwoofers, the purpose of the exercise is to know and understand the acoustic response of the room they'll be placed in. Humans, I in my ways and others in theirs, including many here, due to our innate intellect, are anal. This is not a bad thing. The point, due to the chosen placement of our subwoofers and their corresponding interaction with the geometry of the room, my anal way of dealing with subwoofer issues is, before buying an expensive replacement product, not after I buy the product, I like to have my education complete. If you will, I like to have my ducks in a row. This way, when I order your product, I'll have a reasonably complete understanding of our room's acoustics, how I can expect your subs to interact with the room's geometry and without disappointment, be able to easily integrate your product into our room's acoustics and be done with it. I find others meet disappointment because they choose to do things the other way around.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/5/12 at 1:37pm
post #349 of 703
Interesting comments by all of you. One point I would like to dwell on is testing and reviews. It would be awesome to see more of Funks stuff tested and some reviews written. I think this could settle some issues and drama. He's got some new loud speakers that I want. 8.2P drool. I love the understated-ness of it. Im thinking gloss black with brass trim plates.


Oh Funk Audio, your gear is glorious, but we as consumers desire comparisons and reviews. and you're making rack amps now? when did this happen? and nice website btw
post #350 of 703
^ Those new 8.2P's do look cool - very intriguing. Let us know if you purchase a pair.
post #351 of 703
Comment removed.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/25/12 at 5:22pm
post #352 of 703
There are review(s)in the works, and yes it does take some time from the planning stage to ready to publish data and write up(s), nothing happens instantly. So please understand the wait.
Edited by Funky Waves - 12/25/12 at 7:56pm
post #353 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by manwithnocape View Post

Oh Funk Audio, your gear is glorious, but we as consumers desire comparisons and reviews. and you're making rack amps now? when did this happen? and nice website btw

My understanding, the gear is being or going be submitted for testing but for some reason, doing so takes a glacial Ice Age to happen.

One should be able to call up the testing agency they're going use, make an appointment, submit the gear for testing and post the results of the measurements. Done deal.

It's this kind of consumer unfriendly or unresponsive behavior that makes consumers start looking to Rythmik, PSA and SVS subs as they're an already tested and posted commodity. In the end, when guests are over, how loud does one really need it to get? I'm beginning to better understand the why of company spinoffs in the business of subwoofers. If anybody wants to understand the underpinnings of any enterprise, look to the politics of it all.

(With all due respect, when loyalty is not rewarded; unrequited loyalty causes customers to start looking elsewhere)

-

That sounds argumentative. Just because you tack on "with all due respect' doesn't make it respectfull rolleyes.gif
post #354 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

BeeMan, I am not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. The review(s) are in the works, and yes it does take some time from the planning stage to ready to publish data and write up(s), nothing happens instantly.

Then I'll remove the comment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

That sounds argumentative. Just because you tack on "with all due respect' doesn't make it respectfull rolleyes.gif

If you will, it was an indirect consumer related comment to a business owner. Comment was removed.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 12/25/12 at 5:58pm
post #355 of 703
I am going actually order a couple subs from you in the near future, and I was thinking of getting two 15.0 or one 18.0c with the 1.5kW amp. I haven't decided yet, and I wont be ready well into the new year. However, I noticed on your website that you will be increasing introductory prices on your new offerings which I am a bit concerned about. How much more will these subs cost in the new year?
post #356 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by sputter1 View Post

That sounds argumentative. Just because you tack on "with all due respect' doesn't make it respectfull rolleyes.gif
Whenever I see or hear the phrase "with all due respect", I know someone is about to get Disrepected. smile.gif
Chris
post #357 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Whenever I see or hear the phrase "with all due respect", I know someone is about to get Disrepected. smile.gif
Chris

That's sig worthy!
post #358 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGBEAR2004 View Post

I am going actually order a couple subs from you in the near future, and I was thinking of getting two 15.0 or one 18.0c with the 1.5kW amp. I haven't decided yet, and I wont be ready well into the new year. However, I noticed on your website that you will be increasing introductory prices on your new offerings which I am a bit concerned about. How much more will these subs cost in the new year?

The prices on all products will be going up 8%, we do have a few things coming up in our Jan sale. Two 18.3(customized), one built to order custom sub with the 800 watt DSP amplifier and an Aurasound NS18 driver, discount on the 1500 watt DSP amp(while supplies last), free upgrades on exotic veneers we have some overstock on(while supplies last), two sets of prototype speakers, and possibly a custom actively powered 2.1 system.

On a side note, we will be starting the prerelease pricing for our upcoming flagship subwoofer, the dual opposed sealed 18" with two power levels, 4800watts RMS, and 9600 watts RMS, and the prerelease pricing will be ending very soon on the 8.2.P speakers, as we only have a couple spaces left.
post #359 of 703
I recall Nathan was the first to submit a sub in Audioholics sub shootout awhile back but was the last sub to be reviewed...sometimes its just outta their control. I have personally asked him and he has told which products are going where and who'll be conducting those reviews. I find it funny people sometimes question his motives because he doesn't attend peoples GTG...think about it rationally... he is thousands of miles away....maybe some of you should pack up your gear and subs and fly out tto BC....what do you think?wink.gif

Peace...Bill...
post #360 of 703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funky Waves View Post

On a side note, we will be starting the prerelease pricing for our upcoming flagship subwoofer, the dual opposed sealed 18" with two power levels, 4800watts RMS, and 9600 watts RMS.
IMO That is the single most exciting subwoofer design concept I can think of. Between Funk Adio's version and the SubM XL , 2013 will be a great year.
I am really looking forward to those two offerings.
Happy New Year
Chris
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