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The 'NEW' YAQIN MS-20L Integrated Vacuum Tube Amp Thread - Page 15

post #421 of 796
4/21/12 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatsby1965 View Post

This thread has compelled me to consider purchasing the MS-20L. Hoping I could get some help with a couple of questions. Can I use this without being a tube expert or audiophile? Are their speakers under $1,000 that would work best (classical, jazz, classic rock)? Lastly, i was considering the Marantz PM 8004 if the Yaquin was too labor intensive. Thoughts? Would welcome your advice!

I listen to Jazz, Blues, Classical, Classic Rock and Classic Country. I love the MS-20L paired with Klipsch KG4s.
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post #422 of 796
4/26/12 at 6:50pm
Went back to the Chinese el34's for a while, just to compare now that I've listened to the Tung Sol's for a few months. Definitely a subtle difference between the two. The Chinese tubes have a more "neutral" sound I think, with more apparent bass...but I think it's maybe just "boomier".
The Tung Sol el34's have an "edgier" sound, if you know what I mean. They aren't as pleasant for rock or complex passages, but the detail in the mid-range is very heightened. Acoustic and jazz material is superb. Very breathy vocals and the singer's inflections are more easily picked up, making the listening experience feel more immanent and satisfying. Tung Sol's are back in for now.
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post #423 of 796
4/27/12 at 4:57pm
Just a FYI for everybody...

I tried my GE jan5654w's in my amp again, just to give them a second shot. I noticed a faint high-pitched whine from the right channel while the amp was idling with no signal. I promptly pulled the 5654's and put my 6j1p-ev's back in.

I looked up the data sheet for the GE 5654's and it specifies a maximum heater to cathode voltage of 90v. This amp uses an SRPP (the Chinese love this circuit) in the input stage and the cathode in the top tube gets close to 100v applied to it. I think the sound I could hear was leakage from the the heater to the cathode. The Russian 6j1p's I have are spec'd to a max heater/cathode voltage of 120v.

So, heads up to anyone else running 5654's in your amps...they're out of spec by quite a bit in this amp.
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post #424 of 796
4/27/12 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

Just a FYI for everybody...

I tried my GE jan5654w's in my amp again, just to give them a second shot. I noticed a faint high-pitched whine from the right channel while the amp was idling with no signal. I promptly pulled the 5654's and put my 6j1p-ev's back in.

I looked up the data sheet for the GE 5654's and it specifies a maximum heater to cathode voltage of 90v. This amp uses an SRPP (the Chinese love this circuit) in the input stage and the cathode in the top tube gets close to 100v applied to it. I think the sound I could hear was leakage from the the heater to the cathode. The Russian 6j1p's I have are spec'd to a max heater/cathode voltage of 120v.

So, heads up to anyone else running 5654's in your amps...they're out of spec by quite a bit in this amp.

I am using the 5654's now and they seem ok but from time to time I do get a faint high pitch noise.
Are the Russian 6j1p's a big step up in sound quality? I see a guy on Ebay sellling 8 from $10.
Any good power tubes I can put in to improve the sound even more? I am still running the stock chinese tubes there.
Thanks!
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post #425 of 796
4/27/12 at 9:14pm
Attachment 244877

The only tubes out of spec regarding H/K voltage are v101 and v107 in the above schematic.
The 6J1P-EV tubes sound very good, though I really don't hear a lot of difference between the various small signal tubes I've tried in my amp. Even the different power tube tubes I've tried have had only subtle differences in sound. If you're going to try 6J1P-EV's, the ones manufactured at the Voskhod factory are reputed to be the best, or so I've read. Those are the ones I bought...I think I paid $30 shipped for a matched octet. Be sure to use matched tubes here, as the preamp tubes are cathode-biased.

I haven't heard of any dramatic failures of 5654's in these amps, but i suppose there is a possibility the cathode insulation could break down over time resulting in a short with the heater...that could make for a fairly spectacular failure.
I just didn't like that I could hear oscillation from the leakage...couldn't be terribly good for hi-fi sound.
LL
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post #426 of 796
4/30/12 at 6:55am
I FINALLY decided to order an MS-20L and it has arrived. I have a question about inserting the tubes. How do you know if the tubes are inserted properly? Are they supposed to be flush? It doesn't feel like they are going all the way in.
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post #427 of 796
4/30/12 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKYR1967 View Post

I FINALLY decided to order an MS-20L and it has arrived. I have a question about inserting the tubes. How do you know if the tubes are inserted properly? Are they supposed to be flush? It doesn't feel like they are going all the way in.

Look at length of contact pins. Tube should go down all of it. You still can shake small tubes, even when they are fully inserted. But power tubes must sit firm in their sockets.
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post #428 of 796
5/1/12 at 8:21pm
Was playing around with mine tonight and made an interesting discovery. I've got an NAD cd player and a Pure i20 ipod dock. Both the cd player and the dock output a 2v signal according the the manufacturers but the ipod dock also has a volume control so i can attenuate the signal level. I've always used it with the dock at full volume (2v) and the sound was always good, if a little bright. I couldn't distinguish any difference from ipod or cd player...my 45 year old ears aren't good enough. Anyway, tonight I was playing the dock with the dock volume turned much lower, so i had to compensate with the amps volume control obviously.
The sound was to die for! A very noticable improvement!
So, now I'm a little puzzled...I know Yaqin states the sensitivity of this amp is .25v, so perhaps exceeding that voltage by such a large margin was bad juju for the grid of the input tubes? I'm thinking I may look for a cd player with less output, just to try an A/B with the NAD.
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post #429 of 796
5/2/12 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

Was playing around with mine tonight and made an interesting discovery. I've got an NAD cd player and a Pure i20 ipod dock. Both the cd player and the dock output a 2v signal according the the manufacturers but the ipod dock also has a volume control so i can attenuate the signal level. I've always used it with the dock at full volume (2v) and the sound was always good, if a little bright. I couldn't distinguish any difference from ipod or cd player...my 45 year old ears aren't good enough. Anyway, tonight I was playing the dock with the dock volume turned much lower, so i had to compensate with the amps volume control obviously.
The sound was to die for! A very noticable improvement!
So, now I'm a little puzzled...I know Yaqin states the sensitivity of this amp is .25v, so perhaps exceeding that voltage by such a large margin was bad juju for the grid of the input tubes? I'm thinking I may look for a cd player with less output, just to try an A/B with the NAD.

It is possible that your doc clips at high volume. I read few reviews of DACs which couldn't produce full output level due to analog or digital clipping. It is possible that you overloaded Yaqin input tube too. One thing to keep in mind - many DACs and CD players with variable output have it done in digital mode. As a result, when you reduce volume, you are loosing some resolution, which is not a good thing.
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post #430 of 796
5/2/12 at 9:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

It is possible that your doc clips at high volume. I read few reviews of DACs which couldn't produce full output level due to analog or digital clipping. It is possible that you overloaded Yaqin input tube too. One thing to keep in mind - many DACs and CD players with variable output have it done in digital mode. As a result, when you reduce volume, you are loosing some resolution, which is not a good thing.

I'm not sure it's the fault of the dac in the dock (heh) as the NAD cd player (2v output as well) gives a similar sound to the dock with volume up. I asked over on diyaudio about the circuit and the consensus seems to be that a 2v signal is too much for the input tubes...if you exceed the bias voltage with the positive peaks of your input signal, you get distortion in the signal's positive peaks even before it gets amplified. I'm going to open it up and determine the bias voltage of the first 6j1 just so I have an actual figure. These amps may not favor input signals much greater than their rated sensitivity...which is something that others here should be made aware of as well (if that's indeed the case).
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post #431 of 796
5/2/12 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

I'm not sure it's the fault of the dac in the dock (heh) as the NAD cd player (2v output as well) gives a similar sound to the dock with volume up. I asked over on diyaudio about the circuit and the consensus seems to be that a 2v signal is too much for the input tubes...if you exceed the bias voltage with the positive peaks of your input signal, you get distortion in the signal's positive peaks even before it gets amplified. I'm going to open it up and determine the bias voltage of the first 6j1 just so I have an actual figure. These amps may not favor input signals much greater than their rated sensitivity...which is something that others here should be made aware of as well (if that's indeed the case).

If published schematic of MS20L is correct, it has volume control pot before first tube. So high input signal shouldn't reach tube grid if you turn volume down.
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post #432 of 796
5/11/12 at 8:15am
I am in short final to buy MS-20L and in fact it is not an upgrade but more disgrade as my last amp was Cayin A 100 T , monster with 70 Watts per chanell with 8 El 34 in power stage.This amp got hit with huge overvolatge spike and with relays electronic went something wrong so the amp. changed sound a lot.I have tower boxes handling 140 w (DIN standard) with 4 loudspeakers in each box,sensitivity is 2,1 Watt ( is it high sensitivity or low?)so I do hope that Yaqin will have enough power to make them "sing" like Cayin did.The boxes are from Magnat, german company,model from 1985.What do you think?
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post #433 of 796
5/11/12 at 8:22am
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post #434 of 796
5/11/12 at 8:36am
Sigma 1000 from Magnat is in fact 3 and half way box where the 1 bass loudspeaker ( 200 mm) drives low freq. cut from 80 hz to 30 and the second is cut from 500 to 30...or something like that.It is a bass reflex box ....many years ago they were running with Luxman MO3 endamp and CO3 as a preamp...great sound but MO3 was 2 x 200 Wats sinus...but as I read here Yaqin has enough power...however I would apritiate your opinion for my final decission...sorry if my English is not perfect
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post #435 of 796
5/11/12 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineArts View Post

Sigma 1000 from Magnat is in fact 3 and half way box where the 1 bass loudspeaker ( 200 mm) drives low freq. cut from 80 hz to 30 and the second is cut from 500 to 30...or something like that.It is a bass reflex box ....many years ago they were running with Luxman MO3 endamp and CO3 as a preamp...great sound but MO3 was 2 x 200 Wats sinus...but as I read here Yaqin has enough power...however I would apritiate your opinion for my final decission...sorry if my English is not perfect

I would drop the idea of tubes with these speakers. Get good solid state with at least 250w in each side, something that works well with low (under 4 ohms) impedance.
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post #436 of 796
5/11/12 at 11:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

I would drop the idea of tubes with these speakers. Get good solid state with at least 250w in each side, something that works well with low (under 4 ohms) impedance.

I agree 100%...the problem is I can not afford such investment right now...but...if the Cayin's 70 W was more then enough why yaqin's 50 would not do the job as well?...now...this sensitivity is the key: 2.1 watt anybody knows how many DB is that?
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post #437 of 796
5/12/12 at 1:20am
One more interesting fact...Cayin has triode mode...in that mode there are only 2 x 35 W but the sound was still teriffic with great bass and stage only the bass was not so tight...and here I have 50..so..it should work...just my opinion...50 tube means 90 SS...or?
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post #438 of 796
5/12/12 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineArts View Post

One more interesting fact...Cayin has triode mode...in that mode there are only 2 x 35 W but the sound was still teriffic with great bass and stage only the bass was not so tight...and here I have 50..so..it should work...just my opinion...50 tube means 90 SS...or?

50 "Yaqin" watts means about 30 of SS. If you do not have enough money for NEW amplifier, get used one. Look at local "for sale" ad sites like Craigslist here. You definitely should be able to find something less than 10 years old for under $200.
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post #439 of 796
5/16/12 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

50 "Yaqin" watts means about 30 of SS. If you do not have enough money for NEW amplifier, get used one. Look at local "for sale" ad sites like Craigslist here. You definitely should be able to find something less than 10 years old for under $200.

Thanks for your support....I just borow a tube amp from Dynaco handling 2 x 35 Watts .Wow how powerfull is this amp. to my boxes...1/4 of volume knob and sound was more then loud ...bass,mid,highs...full,rich,mighty...so I decided to order Yaqin...I will come back with impressions
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post #440 of 796
5/22/12 at 12:06am
Where are all those people from Yaqin club?...do they still enjoy thier MS-20L?
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post #441 of 796
5/22/12 at 6:39am
I am enjoying the music! I've been listening to the new Norah Jones Vinyl through my Yaquin and it sounds fantastic! What a great amp!

Jeff
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post #442 of 796
5/23/12 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Aguilar View Post

I am enjoying the music! I've been listening to the new Norah Jones Vinyl through my Yaquin and it sounds fantastic! What a great amp!

Jeff

That's great...so I would say it's a high end machine...I looked around the net...everyone is amazed by this amp and not only with price - sound ratio but a sound that can be heard by 3 times the price of Jaqin....I will get my in 2-3 days and see how does it match with my 100 w towers - they have sensitivity of 89db/m so should be no problem
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post #443 of 796
5/23/12 at 5:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rntlee View Post

Went back to the Chinese el34's for a while, just to compare now that I've listened to the Tung Sol's for a few months. Definitely a subtle difference between the two. The Chinese tubes have a more "neutral" sound I think, with more apparent bass...but I think it's maybe just "boomier".
The Tung Sol el34's have an "edgier" sound, if you know what I mean. They aren't as pleasant for rock or complex passages, but the detail in the mid-range is very heightened. Acoustic and jazz material is superb. Very breathy vocals and the singer's inflections are more easily picked up, making the listening experience feel more immanent and satisfying. Tung Sol's are back in for now.

I have 4 JJ EL34L....can I use them as well?...ofcourse I will rebias them
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post #444 of 796
5/26/12 at 8:05pm
I'm thinking about trying the Magnepan MMG with my MS-20L? WIll it do the job? Am I crazy?
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post #445 of 796
5/26/12 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKYR1967 View Post

I'm thinking about trying the Magnepan MMG with my MS-20L? WIll it do the job? Am I crazy?

It might. Not sure what what tue output of the 20L is, but my MC100b powers my Magnepan MG1.5s quite well. I prefer the KT88's for Magnepans, as they generally fill out the bottom end which is the Maggie's weak point. EL34s do a great job with mid range for most speakers, but that area is already so robust and deep on these speakers, that it's not a necessary thing. Consider the MC100B, find it to be a far better fit for Magnepans.
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post #446 of 796
5/28/12 at 6:03am
I am considering one of these amps. My tube amp of choice for my main stereo is a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum. I recently put it into my bedroom with my Swan M1 speakers and it was glorious. I cannot do another $2,200 just for my bedroom setup so I am considering something from Yaqin.

My first question is, what is the shipping rate for these amps? I am seeing up to $208 for shipping outside of the US on the Ebay quote. Is this correct? If that is the case, I think I would settle for something SS and local.
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post #447 of 796
5/28/12 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ap1 View Post

50 "Yaqin" watts means about 30 of SS. If you do not have enough money for NEW amplifier, get used one. Look at local "for sale" ad sites like Craigslist here. You definitely should be able to find something less than 10 years old for under $200.

AP1, how did you arrive at the figure of 50 Yaqin watts = 30 SS watts?

I replaced a 50 wpc SS receiver with my MS-20L and the volumes are identical that I can tell by my ear. But then the difference between 30 and 50 watts can be hard to distinguish by ear.

I am not questioning your figures but curious as to your method.
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post #448 of 796
5/28/12 at 10:11am
I am running the MMGW's with my MS-20. Since they only go down to 100 hertz you need a sub to fill in the bottom. I tried using one of my SVS 16/46+ subs but since you need to set the crossover so high it pulled the sound to the side of the room with the sub. I ended up getting two 8" Outlaw subs to run with my system. It really sounds good!!!! I am now going to try my Energy Veritas 2.4's in place of my MMGW speakers.

Jeff
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post #449 of 796
5/28/12 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytowing View Post

AP1, how did you arrive at the figure of 50 Yaqin watts = 30 SS watts?

I replaced a 50 wpc SS receiver with my MS-20L and the volumes are identical that I can tell by my ear. But then the difference between 30 and 50 watts can be hard to distinguish by ear.

I am not questioning your figures but curious as to your method.

I bought MC-100B and measured it. If you accept the same rule of 1% THD commonly used for SS amps, it showed only 35W/channel. If I recall correctly, it is advertised to deliver 60W. I do not think that MS-20L is any better.
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post #450 of 796
5/29/12 at 1:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cytowing View Post

AP1, how did you arrive at the figure of 50 Yaqin watts = 30 SS watts?

I replaced a 50 wpc SS receiver with my MS-20L and the volumes are identical that I can tell by my ear. But then the difference between 30 and 50 watts can be hard to distinguish by ear.

I am not questioning your figures but curious as to your method.

I spoke with one emgineer of electronics about that....he said - tube amp. power x 1.42 = SS power...so it means that a 50 w tube amp will be loud as SS amp of ( 50 x 1.42 ) 70 W.....as you can see it is not opinion , there is a formula you can use to find out this relations...in fact 1.42 is a root from 2
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