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Need to narrow this down - Wilson Art vs Paint AE4000 - Page 3

post #61 of 86
within the next 2 duster coats... you should stop for a day to let it dry well enough to use a fine 3M sanding sponge and lightly sand the entire screen so that it's baby butt smooth. then follow that with 3 dusters and your golden.
post #62 of 86
Thread Starter 
Ok. So I did just that. Waited a day. Sanded down with an extra fine sanding sponge. Wiped off the residue. Put my next duster coat on. Came back 45 mins later. Looked beautiful. Again I think my coverage needs a little work but each coat looks better and better.
So my question is:
Is there such thing as too many coats?
I think I am up to 9 and I want to do a bunch more. like I said, each coat is improving the uniformity of the screen. Especially when it dries. The coat right after the sanding looked like glass but still had some overlap issues.
post #63 of 86
Thread Starter 
Here are some pictures.

This first picture is just of the cocoon I made using the plastic stuff. In retrospect, I should have used the paper on the walls instead of the plastic. I put down cardboard on the carpet but I'm going to have to touch up the blue part of the wall or cover with the protostar material.





The second picture is one of my first passes. This is after I wiped it down and rebooted. So you can see that my technique is still off. What I realized was that I didn't depress the lever enough to let out enough paint. I should have pulled away from the screen more and let more paint out of the gun and move quickly. You can see how bad this looks.... but don't worry.




This is after about 5 duster coats, waiting a day, sanding and then adding another duster coat.



Just keeps getting smoother and smoother.



I have some more pics but they all look the same in the pic though they look more uniform in person.

Here is a front few of the cocoon. I used a fan on low to help circulate the air. I'm not sure if thats a no-no but it seems to have helped.

post #64 of 86
Thread Starter 
Well, that's that.
I just finished probably my 15th or 16th coat. The paint looks great. Took off my plastic stuff and painter's tape... well that part didn't come out great but most of it is going to be covered anyway so it doesn't matter. But man I must have torn my seams all over the place because overspray got everywhere.

I popped in Star Trek blu ray (new one). There was a trailer for Transformers (#2) on it and honestly that's all I needed to see. I had sampled it halfway through the painting process (before sanding) as well and it looked great but with all the plastic and stuff around it, I couldn't really appreciate the whole screen.

I honestly didn't think I would see a huge difference in the plain sintra and the painted screen. That's why I kept putting it off. My excuse was, how much better can it look.
Well, I guess I answered that question and for those of you wondering the answer is A LOT!!!!
Within the first 10 seconds of popping this blu ray in, I saw it. So those of you who are on the fence or procrastinating like me, don't.

By the way, when I removed all of the plastic and extra lighting, the screen looked VERY gray but I imagine it is still a little wet. When I put the projector on, whites looked crisp and blacks looked very black. I do have a light controlled room.

Now its time for the masking. I have 4 or 5 different ways I can do it. I think I might try some kind of wood trim covered in protostar for the sides and then perhaps find a way to fasten covered panels across the length of the screen that would be manually moveable for different aspect ratios. I'm thinking magnets might be a way to go.

And one last thing for tonight... Thank you very much to all the folks on this thread and on this forum. You make things a whole lot easier for the rest of us. I especially want to thank MississippiMan and PBmax. I can't believe how great the screen came out. And those of you who want to give it a shot and are nervous to like I was, don't be. It's a whole lot easier than you think if you listen to the guys.
I bought the spray gun, every color, every mixer attachment and item they recommended and it came out perfect. I'm sure the light trap material is going to just further my point. And if you are nervous do what I did. 15 super light duster coats. By the time you get to coat 4, you will get the hang of it. I wasn't happy with the way mine was until I let it sit overnight. I still saw a lot of uneven spots. It went away within the three next dusters just like pb said. And then I went with a few more just because I had the paint and I was on a roll.

Can't wait to crack open my LOTR extended blu rays.
post #65 of 86
Your Screen looks to be a most excellent example of DIY Screen making!

However that last picture of the "Cocoon" looks more like a Love nest.

You can be sure that LOTR will be a treat, so it's understandable that it has you antsy.........and we can't wait to see some excellent Screen shots either.

But we will.......for a little bit.

If you need any tips on taking Screenies...just post up or PM.
post #66 of 86
Thread Starter 
Thanks MM.
I have a nice canon point and shoot. I remember reading somewhere i should put them on the tripod and hit the timer. Also use ISO 800? or 1600? A refresher would be good.

As far as the LOTR marathon, I have a conference in Vegas this weekend so it will have to wait. I leave on Thursday and I hope to make some headway on the masking portion. I'd like to get this done completely so I don't procrastinate like I did last time and start watching tons of tv instead of working.

By the way, the screen is a lot grayer than it was in the cocoon. Must have been those shop lights. I don't mind it and actually the gray screen looks pretty cool in the room and will look even better once I get it framed out with protostar material. I guess there is a reason its called silver fire.
post #67 of 86
So very happy to read this project worked out. I never posted any comments as I was working on my 2nd and 3rd screens and didn't want to dicourage your progress. In addition I didn't want to hijack your thread. The wagner sprayer never sprayed consistently or evenly for me, and that includes much tinkering with the beast. I ended up rolling my mix with a foam roller to also include extra coats,but no roller lines. In comparison to my original Goo screen this formula is better for me.
post #68 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstahl View Post

So very happy to read this project worked out. I never posted any comments as I was working on my 2nd and 3rd screens and didn't want to dicourage your progress. In addition I didn't want to hijack your thread. The wagner sprayer never sprayed consistently or evenly for me, and that includes much tinkering with the beast. I ended up rolling my mix with a foam roller to also include extra coats,but no roller lines. In comparison to my original Goo screen this formula is better for me.

Hey man. Too bad about the Wagner. I picked up the no name gleam one that MissMan recommended and it worked like a champ. It sounds like you got it done with rolling which I'm sure looks great. I'm in Vegas right now for a conference so I didn't get a chance to play with my screen too much yet but can't wait to get home.
post #69 of 86
Thread Starter 
Minor set back with the masking on the screen. Did a few drawings and I am attempting to use a magnetic latch system (similar to closet drawer latches and medicine cabinet magnets) to put together a system that will allow me to switch between the two formats.

Well I think I got it pretty good on paper but I don't have enough of the light flock material so I just placed an order for another roll. I'm going to build magneticly latched 14" panels that can set me up for 16:9 or 2.35.

It took a lot of napkin sketches but i think I have something that might work. I put it onto a quick excel spreadsheet to keep myself straight. Will update as I work on this.
If someone has an easier way to do this please let me know.
post #70 of 86
I am regularly following your tread. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for this trade, it is very informative. Can you please point me to right tread/s were I can read about DIY screen using MississippiMan’s and pb_maxxx’s all the advises – recipes procedure. I am planning to buy Casio XJ-A240 or XJ-M240 project. Any advise or comments. Also when I buy this projector do I have to make any changes in MississippiMan’s recipe? I don’t want to highjack this tread so please advise me where should I go.

Thanking you in advance.
post #71 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by YourFriend View Post

I am regularly following your tread. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you for this trade, it is very informative. Can you please point me to right tread/s were I can read about DIY screen using MississippiMan’s and pb_maxxx’s all the advises – recipes procedure. I am planning to buy Casio XJ-A240 or XJ-M240 project. Any advise or comments. Also when I buy this projector do I have to make any changes in MississippiMan’s recipe? I don’t want to highjack this tread so please advise me where should I go.

Thanking you in advance.

Simply start your own "Thread" titled "What Screen paint is best for my Casio XJ-A/M240"
..............and we'll come to you.
(...for the record though, you need Silver Fire v2.1 4.0 if your under 144" diagonal in screen size...)
post #72 of 86
Thread Starter 
YourFriend,
Like I said I'm just a beginner and I was only able to do this with help from others. For specifics on that I would follow Mmans recommendations. The smartest thing I did was start my thread and these guys were nice enough to help me along. My biggest recommendation is to buy that gleem paint spray gun and that squirrel mixer. Each coat took about 45 seconds to put on and I was worried that I wouldn't be able to do it. As soon as you realize that light coats are all you need, you will breeze through it. And I can't imagine getting those paint components to mix properly if I didn't have that squirrel mixer.


MississippiMan,
I'm at a bit of an impass. I want to make these 15" x 108(ish)" panels with the flockstar material on it. I was thinking about making a simple wood frame with cross bars every few feet and then covering that with some sort of thin board and then sticking the protostar material on there.
However, it just occured to me that to keep things as light as possible, do I really need that thin piece of wood? Do you think the protostar material is sticky enough to just attach to the frame (tightly). Or perhaps I can use ordinary poster board instead of wood and staple that to the wood and then put the protostar on top of that? I was shopping for thin (1/4") wood that I can cut neatly into panels but most of the stuff I found didn't look particularly straight and definitely would add a considerable amount of weight. Also I'd have to get it cut at the store because my table saw wouldn't be able to handle it. How sticky is that stuff? i haven't tried peeling it off yet. Do you think I can get away with just using the frame or perhaps some light poster board material?
post #73 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

MississippiMan,
I'm at a bit of an impass. I want to make these 15" x 108(ish)" panels with the flockstar material on it. I was thinking about making a simple wood frame with cross bars every few feet and then covering that with some sort of thin board and then sticking the protostar material on there.
However, it just occured to me that to keep things as light as possible, do I really need that thin piece of wood? Do you think the protostar material is sticky enough to just attach to the frame (tightly). Or perhaps I can use ordinary poster board instead of wood and staple that to the wood and then put the protostar on top of that? I was shopping for thin (1/4") wood that I can cut neatly into panels but most of the stuff I found didn't look particularly straight and definitely would add a considerable amount of weight. Also I'd have to get it cut at the store because my table saw wouldn't be able to handle it. How sticky is that stuff? i haven't tried peeling it off yet. Do you think I can get away with just using the frame or perhaps some light poster board material?

I would pick up either a 4' x 10' or 5' x 10' sheet of the Sintra in 6MM (1/4"). It's expanded Foam Board, solid with no veneer. It's realy lightweight....lighter than in 1/4" wood...and forget wood anyway. Where can one find 10' long sheets of 1/4" Hardwood Plywood.

Your Local outlet can...and will rip specified widths/ lengths of the sheet...even trim the lengths to your measurements. Point of fact. Using the thin Sintra for such projects as masking panels allows the Panel to be flush-er and the panel to be simply that....a Panel.

It's gonna be about the singularly most ideal material for you to get and use. The ProtoStar Flocking will stick to that better than any wood or drywall surface. The Sintra is light enough to be held in place with the more minimal Fastener systems. At 6mm, it's just stiff enough that it hangs straight and never warps, twists, or sags.

I hate frames. Your ideas are kinda a mix of getting there inventively, but also doing such in a manner that is problematical as to if it's really a effective solution.

Sometimes one has to face harsh realities Wrapping anything like Cloth...or even applying a Self Stick Flock over a Frame at... kust 15" x 9' x ...say, 1/2"? The Panel will have to be made of expensive, clear Kiln Dried Poplar in the least, (..or Maple will work well..) and every piece perfectly straight and true. Then you have to brace the thing perfect. Every one of your measurements dead on...Cuts, be they Miters or 90 Degrees have to be really really precise. Even at that, the natural twist along a 9' length could only be helped by all those Struts, which add weight....more exacting measurements and cutting, and then one dies have to fasten those struts to the frame in such a manner.

With ProtoStar wrapped Sintra panels, if you kinda felt you just had to, you could get the same Sintra sheets in 1/8" (3mm) and attach that to a Frame.

That being possible if somehow you can manage to construct a "Ladder-like" 9' x 15" frame that doesn't have to weigh in at 20 lbs. I suppose you could hang the panels on side hooks if they extend out to the edge of the Screen Trim. Sounds like a pain. I hate pain...I do things easy yet with performance and looks in mind....and focus on things that come with Installer / End user friendly interactions.

The ProtoStar comes in a Roll. It curls out just "so-so"...because when your cutting it with even a razor sharp knife, and trying to brace down the Sheet as you go, the thin ProtoStar tends to shift and bunches "ahead of the cutting edge" if you don't stay ahead of things and stop before things get "crumple y". I used 10' lengths of my Mdf Base Trim as a Cutting board for slicing out length. It wasn't impossible...just not nearly as easy I would like it to be. to be able to get a good result.

In your Case, you have 30" of width with ProtoStar, and two 15" wide panels. Hmmmmm....no room for error there, in cutting or applying. Perk up. If you have two 108" lengths if 15" wide Sintra, you'll have two pieces that are each exactly 1/2 wide as your Flocking....also one nice 108" Straight edge, and also a 108" long cutting board. Just don't cut any harder than it takes to know you got cleanly through the ProtoStar.

......and if you do any of that...you have to be using 1/4" (6mm) Sintra.

Don't try to use the 3mm to cut on....unless it all the extra you'll have left over.

I forgot about that.

Gator Foam is another possibility, and just a tiny bit lighter per sq.ft than Sintra. But it does have Paper veneers, and can be subject to mild distortion over time
post #74 of 86
Bonjovi, this is what I have been thinking of doing. My panels would be about 10 inches or so (vs. your plan of 15 inches). My plan is to have curtains hanging on either side of the screen to act as the left and right panels. Then, the 10 inches of sintra wrapped in protostar as the top and bottom panels. My plan is to have a velcro strip to the wall on the left and right side (behind the curtains). That way, I can move the panels up and down as needed for top and bottom masking. I can also make the 2:35 image larger by zooming and thus pull the curtains back and make my screen flexible enought to be a CIH screen if I wanted. My hesitation has been if the curtains will act well enough as masking on the left and right side. This is what has held me back from painting my Silverfire screen. I have just about everything (just need to order the Metallic Rustoleum) but if I don't do the curtains and just a regular frame out of trim, I need to paint a different size screen surface than if I want the CIH option. Also, not sure how the protostar would look at the top and bottom and the velvet for curtains on the side (protostar is probably much blacker then the velvet I would think). I don't want to do all this and it seem like a bad DIY job and not fit with the rest of the house. Therefore, I have been stuck in neutral between this option and just the regular frame option which I know would look nice. I also wonder if the masking is really worth it as about 75% of our watching is 16:9 HDTV and about 25% movies. It is some of those grey bars that bother me on the movies though and I think it would be cool to be able to make them black with the moveable panels.

Anyone have any thoughts on the idea?
post #75 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay7 View Post

Bonjovi, this is what I have been thinking of doing. My panels would be about 10 inches or so (vs. your plan of 15 inches). My plan is to have curtains hanging on either side of the screen to act as the left and right panels. Then, the 10 inches of sintra wrapped in protostar as the top and bottom panels. My plan is to have a velcro strip to the wall on the left and right side (behind the curtains). That way, I can move the panels up and down as needed for top and bottom masking. I can also make the 2:35 image larger by zooming and thus pull the curtains back and make my screen flexible enought to be a CIH screen if I wanted. My hesitation has been if the curtains will act well enough as masking on the left and right side.
Anyone have any thoughts on the idea?

G'Day

I made up a 120" wide Roller Blind (spline-d two 8'ers together at a 7' point ) some time back that used Black Velvet and a heavy Ballast Rod for the "Top Mask" and Black Velvet pleated Drape Curtains on each side for "Side masking". The PJ was/is a JVC HD100 (Power Zoom / Lens Shift)

The side BV Curtains work great, just as good as any BV Trim...but to get a perfectly straight "vertical mask" we added Velcro tabs at the bottom inside corners of the Drapes. It doesn't require any "pull", just a fixed attachment to effect a very straight edge. Free hanging won't cut it unless you sew in some pretty hefty Curtain Weights into the Pleated Hems. The ones I used didn't do enough so improvisation was in order. Really though, the Velcro was a pretty simple, intuitive "fix'.

As for the comparison between ProtoStar and BV, I posted such a comparison about 2 yrs ago. Under direct "eye ballin' " both appear to be virtually identical. That's a pretty good testimonial for using Black Velvet, considering that the ProtoStar claims to absorb 99.9 % of all light received. When Blasting both with a very bright white light when they are side-to-side, there is not enough difference for any casual observation to notice, let alone enough to be distraction.

Where the PS takes the advantage is having a sticky back adhesive that allows you to create a non-pleated, absolutely light absorptive Flat surface. Of course you can upholster a wall or a board with BV, and know your not compromising your masking effort's performance in any way, but sometimes using the PS is just plain easier.

However......., a word of caution about ProtoStar. Once applied, it cannot...repeat...CANNOT be repositioned. It's adhesive is very aggressive, and if you try to pull it back off, the PS will stretch out enough that you'll have a wrinkle...or a ridge that you cannot press out, effectively ruining the piece your working with. Just look at the application of ProtoStar as being like applying a laminate veneer using Contact cement that has skimmed dry. Touch the two surfaces together and it where it's gonna be...even if it's where you don't want it to be.

Just use consummate care and everything will be better than you hoped.
post #76 of 86
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the suggestions. I need to do something about my sides too. If you look at them you will see that the screen is recessed into the wall by about 2 1/2 inches. I want to put protostar on a piece of wood trim to clean that up a bit.

I'm going to try to locate some Sintra locally to see if they will cut it for me. The place I ordered from was more of an industrial supplier. Perhaps I'll go to a local sign shop and see what they can do.
post #77 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Thanks for the suggestions. I need to do something about my sides too. If you look at them you will see that the screen is recessed into the wall by about 2 1/2 inches. I want to put protostar on a piece of wood trim to clean that up a bit.

I'm going to try to locate some Sintra locally to see if they will cut it for me. The place I ordered from was more of an industrial supplier. Perhaps I'll go to a local sign shop and see what they can do.

Hopefully they won't charge you a premium. I don't think you can do better price-wise that a Wholesale Outlet, and it's almost a certainty that a smaller shop will charge you to do those cuts.
post #78 of 86
Thread Starter 
Lots of updating to do here.

First here is what everything looked like without the masking.



Terrible masking job but no matter. It will be ok.

First and foremost, my Bostitch 6 gallon pancake compressor wouldn't hold pressure beyond 20psi rendering a lot of my tools useless. I took the whole thing apart and still could not find out what's wrong with it. Went to Home Depot, and they happened to have on clearance one of these Husky 8 gallon compressors. Came with an impact gun, paint sprayer, and a filler valve. $97. Sold. Not thrilled about the brand but they all have a one or two year warranty anyway so what difference does it make. So far I love the thing.
Highly recommend it if you don't have a compressor and need something cheap.


Ok back to the screen.
I took my ideas and applied them to MMan's idea. I still wanted to build a frame of some degree since this was something I was going to be moving up and down. I don't know how the sintra would hold up.

So this is what I did. I went to Dick Blicks and got them to cut me some sheets of Foamboard for the sides and for the tops and bottoms. They did not have Gatorboard in the sizes I needed. Unfortunately they did not do a great job at cutting and did not have the capabilities to do it with a machine. The poor guy did it by hand and honestly he wasn't very good at it. No worries. I straightened it out as much as possible on my table saw and we move on from there.

I went to Home Depot and purchased wood for the frame and used existing 1/4 x 1/4 stock I had. Together with that and my nailer I made this:






Now on to covering it with the pieces of foamboard. The joint in the middle was covered with gorilla tape. Excellent stuff. I also cleaned up all the edges with gorilla tape because I like it so much.

Here is the progression.












Next we lay it out on the ground.
Here is 16:9




Here is 2.35:1



I tried to put some magnets and what not to plan accordingly but in the end friction is allowing me to keep these things in place. I am going to reinforce with velcro actually out of all things. I also have support blocks on the bottom that will be covered with the protostar material.

I also did the sides out of foamboard and just installed them in my little cutout area.

Here is the masking in place (using the magnets which ended up coming in handy to keep the mask against the screen). I do think that velcro will work out better. But everything covered in flocking light trap material which honestly whips velvet. This is 16:9. I will be doing some screen shots soon. Just got to find my tripod and see if I can remember how to do them.

post #79 of 86
A really classy piece of work.

Tapping a toe, waiting for those screenies.

Just be advised the sides of those Columns "will" light up like Florescent fixtures when the screen starts outputting it's foot lamberts.

Had to spit in your Post Toasties, didn't I?

Sorry about that...
post #80 of 86
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

A really classy piece of work.

Tapping a toe, waiting for those screenies.

Just be advised the sides of those Columns "will" light up like Florescent fixtures when the screen starts outputting it's foot lamberts.

Had to spit in your Post Toasties, didn't I?

Sorry about that...

I just can't make you happy huh? Just kidding. Actually its because of your help that this thing is turning out as well as it has. So keep it coming.

Now which columns are you talking about. There are ones by the screen as shown in the pics and then there are ones in the middle of the room in front of the seating. Take a look at page one for a layout.

Keep in mind that there is a good 3" indent where the screen is. It's kind of recessed in there. I hope that will minimize the splash of light hitting the columns that are near the screen. Unless its bouncing back off of other reflections in the room which is very well possible. The columns in the middle of the room... well that's a different story. Gotta tinker with it more to see how much it bothers me. Knowing myself, probably a lot. I have lots of light trap material since I ordered extra for my buddy's theater. I was thinking about putting it up on the ceiling near the projector but noticed no real reflected light there. Next time I fire it up, I'm going to take a look and see where I see some unwanted light.

Really quickly I put on that same trusty Revenge of the Fallen Trailer. Was too mesmerized by the picture to notice anything. I was actually troubleshooting some subwoofer issues (posted in Integra DHC-9.8 thread). When I get a minute to fire it up, I'll let you know. Also need to get my tripod out and get some screen shots. All of these pics were taken with my phone (Samsung Infuse) which actually has more megapixels than my Canon but obviously can't compare it when shooting dark areas.
post #81 of 86
Thread Starter 
You were right. The sides are now bothering me. Problem is that I'm not sure how the light trap material will look on those sides when not watching a movie. Then again, do i really care?

On that note just watched Rio with the kids. My little one was trying to catch the birds in the opening scene.
I had a few folks over and when i told them i can change the screen masking, they were less than impressed saying they never notice a difference. So i started the movie without it and then moved the boards and everyone in unison said "whoa, what a difference". it's one of those things you need to see for yourself. Hope to have some screen slots soon.
post #82 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

You were right. The sides are now bothering me. Problem is that I'm not sure how the light trap material will look on those sides when not watching a movie. Then again, do i really care?

Of course you care! No one (...like you...) goes to the trouble to ace out such a excellent looking project to then just settle for; "Well, I guess I coulda-shoulda-might'na-outta considered maskin' out those close-in white surfaces."

It'll look just fine, and the end result will follow exactly the same path for you that seeing the difference made to your Friends.

A no Brain-er....so make it happen!

SCREENIES TOO...BEFORE & AFTER
post #83 of 86
Thread Starter 
No no.. I think you misunderstood. I meant I don't think I care what they will look like with the lights on and masked.
I'm just trying to decide to paint or flocking material. I think if I have one straight edge on the flocking material I can cut down the column with a straight blade.
post #84 of 86
Thread Starter 
Been trying to get some screen shots together and they are coming out horrible. Do I want a long shutter? I'm using a tripod and a timer. I just can't remember the settings I need to use on the camera.
post #85 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjovi View Post

Been trying to get some screen shots together and they are coming out horrible. utoDo I want a long shutter? I'm using a tripod and a timer. I just can't remember the settings I need to use on the camera.

%

set cmra to auto
back up
zoom until screen is 505 of the image field
set timer 4 10 sec.
press shutter button lightly to set focus & exposure
press harder and get away

....also pause image and if hand holding....still use timer
post #86 of 86
Still waiting for those screenies ! eek.gif

If my suggestions to repair that "rubbed smooth" spot pan out (...and they should...) please document and relate such on this thread or a newly dedicated one, so that others might benefit.

..........and please...PLEASE....grace up with a few Screenies. (...Lights on 50% and "Off"..)
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