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playing BD disc with MPC - Home Cinema with bit-perfect HD audio over an analog sound - Page 5

post #121 of 168
5/1/11 at 5:44am
ReClock is now maintained by James @SlySoft. The latest version is 1.8.7.3, the version you should get.

TMT3/5 bitstreams HD audio from BD discs correctly, but does not from MKV.
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post #122 of 168
5/1/11 at 5:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Yes.

Wich is better: graph studio or graph edit
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post #123 of 168
5/1/11 at 5:47am
GraphStudio. How to use it.
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post #124 of 168
5/1/11 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

ReClock is now maintained by James @SlySoft. The latest version is 1.8.7.3, the version you should get.

TMT3/5 bitstreams HD audio from BD discs correctly, but does not from MKV.

I spent so many hours last night reading the difference between lpcm and hd audio. I got so many different answers even from self proclaimed experts. So what I surmised is dts hd ma/dolby tru hd are supposedly bit for.bit identical to lpcm. Only lpcm is untouched and the other two are compressed into a non lossy format. It still seems to me (and many others) that if any.edge however so slight, should go to lpcm for not being compressed. So why is most people prefer to bitstream (including myself) instead of either choosing the lpcm soundtrack or have the Htpc software decode it and send it as lpcm? I personally like to see it say DTS HD MA on my avr. Nevs recent programs just got me thinking about this because his will decode and send but not bitstream,l. Then today I read on the autofrequency website that the developer was explaining that bitstreaming in his order of preference is 3rd on the list behind decoding and one other. Decoding and sending lpcm was his first choice. I was just curious what you had to say on the subject of decoding vs bitstreaming.
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post #125 of 168
5/1/11 at 8:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

So you want to bitstream AC3/DTS/TrueHD/DTS-HD and docode all the other formats to LPCM, right? Explaining all the details here is out of question (I am writing another pdf). A brief outline is:

Source/Splitter filter: As you don't use ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD, you can use, for example, MPC Matroska Source. But I don't see a reason why not use LAV Splitter Source. Disable MPC's internal Source Filters for the file formats for which you want to use LAV Splitter. LAV Splitter will be loaded automatically for these formats. If not, add appropriate registry keys, as in post #3. "Subtitle Selection Mode" was added in the latest build. The reason for it is explained in Doom9 forum.

Video Decoder: Use LAV CUVID Decoder (Options > External Filters > add "LAV CUVID Decoder", set it to "Prefer"). There is not much to change in settings. Unticking "Double Framerate" gives the correct deinteralcing result in my case (GT 430).

Video Renderer: madVR (Options > Playback > Output > DirectShow Video: select "madVR"). Default settings should be good. There are lots of discussions in Doom9. Custom resolutions should work with madVR.

Audio Decoder: ffshow Audio Decoder is a kind of a bloatware as far as HTPC use is concerned (it includes tons of audio processors, none of which is good for HTPC). Use LAV Audio Decoder to decode all formats it supports, except for AC3/DTS/TrueHD/DTS-HD. Use ffdshow Audio Decoder only for bitstreaming them. Add both in External Filters and set them to "Prefer". Place LAV Audio Decoder first. Double click it to open Properties; in Formats tab, untick ac3, dca, truehd (bitstreaming eac3 does not work [yet]). In ffdshow Audio Decoder configuartion > Output > Pass-through (S/PDIF, HDMI), tick all (except for eac3; but this does not matter because LAV Audio Decoder will process eac3 first anyway).

Audio Renderer: Use ReClock exclusively. WASAPI exclusive mode for PCM (the only way to get bit-perfect audio with correct channel count), WaveOut for bitstreams (make sure to tick "Accept bitstream formats..."). You can specify ReClock in MPC-HC Options > Playback >Output > Audio Renderer: ReClock Audio Renderer. But I usually select "System Default" and let ReClock to be loaded itself in place of the system default audio renderer.

Finally AutoFrequency: a nice program to change the refresh rate automatically

SOURCE/SPLITTER filter: I un checked all media formats I didn't want the internal to do. You said Lav splitter will be loaded automatically but do I need to add either "Lav Splitter" or "Lav Splitter Source" to the mpchc>options>add external filters box and set to prefer?

Video Decoder: You mentioned unchecking double framerate. What program settings do you do that in? I don't think you can access any of the Lav programs, I think you just install them and that's it. The rest has to be done in the player your using.

Video Renderer: I added madVR like you said in mpchc under output>directshow video. Do I also add it to the external filters box and set to prefer?

Audio Decoder: I added both like you said to mpchc external filters box. I set Lav first and set both to prefer. I went to ffdshow and checked all the boxes I wanted it to bitstream except for eac3. You told me todouble click the Lav decoder and in properties tab I can unlock the modes I don't want it use: dts hd, tru hd etc. But that didn't work, when I double click it or right click nothing happens. Since I have them checked in ffdshow will that be ok or do I also HAVE TO uncheck them as well in Lav? If I do can you explain how I do this a little better?

Audio Renderer: I added Reclock in mpchc under options > output where you said I can either add it or leave as default, I decided to add it. I'm wondering though do I also add it to the external filters box and click prefer?

So basically the ones you told me to add to the box and check as prefer are: Lav audio decoder, ffdshow audio decoder, and Lav cuvid. But do I also add reclock, madvr, Lav splitter, and LAVSplitter source? There set elsewhere but do u add them there too?

Other: When I went to ffdshow to check all the formats I wanted to bitstream there were 3 settings I wanted to ask you about:
"Output format for uncompreessed or decode streams" its set at 16 right now.
The box "Compatibility options" "connect as pcmc first" is checked
Then there is a box saying either connect to directsound, waveout or any filter.
Also in Reclock you told me a couple settings to check. Are there any other that are a must in Reclock?
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post #126 of 168
5/1/11 at 8:52am
The only advantage of decoding to LPCM is that ReClock can adjust video playback rate/audio speed to the video clock. You'd better stick to bitstreaming.

"External Filters" controls only "Transform Filters" (priority argument). Adding source/splitter filters and/or video/audio renderers here is just useless. Source/splitter filter is first searched in Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters; if nothing is found, then searched in the registry key HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv (in case of .mkv); if nothing is found, then the registered splitter filter of the highest merit value will be used. Video/Audio renderer used is always the one you specified in Options > Output. This is a basic fact everybody should know.

Double Framerate: Play 1080i60 contents (e.g. Cheese Slices [search in this forum]) yourself and decide which is better.

LAV Audio Decoder will decode every audio codec that is checked in LAV Audio Decoder Properties > Formats. Untick here all codecs you want to bitstream via ffdshow Audio Decoder.

ffdshow Audio Decoder: As all HD audio formats are either bitstreamed by ffdshow (TrueHD, DTS-HD) or processed by LAV Audio Decoder (e.g. LPCM, FLAC), you can check only "16 bit integer" (as no other codec will have more than 16 bit; actually DTS can be 24bit, but this will be also bitstreamed). You can check all four (16, 24, 32, 32 float) too (priority argument). This is not important. Unless you use WMC internal player for HD audio bitstreaming, select Connect to: any filter. If you bistream in WMC internal player, select Connect to: DirectSound (or Waveout in case of Vista) and untick "Apply only to S/PDIF output" (basically for the same reason as this).

ReClock: The screenshot in post #3 should be enough.
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post #127 of 168
5/1/11 at 9:04am
IMHO I prefer to have my AVR do the decoding because it has better DAC's.
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post #128 of 168
5/1/11 at 9:12am
In either case DAC in AVR will be used (decoding TrueHD/DTS-HD to LPCM [in either PC or AVR] and converting LPCM to analog [in AVR] are different).
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post #129 of 168
5/1/11 at 11:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

The only advantage of decoding to LPCM is that ReClock can adjust video playback rate/audio speed to the video clock. You'd better stick to bitstreaming.

"External Filters" controls only "Transform Filters" (priority argument). Adding source/splitter filters and/or video/audio renderers here is just useless. Source/splitter filter is first searched in Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters; if nothing is found, then searched in the registry key HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions\\.mkv (in case of .mkv); if nothing is found, then the registered splitter filter of the highest merit value will be used. Video/Audio renderer used is always the one you specified in Options > Output. This is a basic fact everybody should know.

Double Framerate: Play 1080i60 contents (e.g. Cheese Slices [search in this forum]) yourself and decide which is better.

LAV Audio Decoder will decode every audio codec that is checked in LAV Audio Decoder Properties > Formats. Untick here all codecs you want to bitstream via ffdshow Audio Decoder.

ffdshow Audio Decoder: As all HD audio formats are either bitstreamed by ffdshow (TrueHD, DTS-HD) or processed by LAV Audio Decoder (e.g. LPCM, FLAC), you can check only "16 bit integer" (as no other codec will have more than 16 bit; actually DTS can be 24bit, but this will be also bitstreamed). You can check all four (16, 24, 32, 32 float) too (priority argument). This is not important. Unless you use WMC internal player for HD audio bitstreaming, select Connect to: any filter. If you bistream in WMC internal player, select Connect to: DirectSound (or Waveout in case of Vista) and untick "Apply only to S/PDIF output" (basically for the same reason as this)

ReClock: The screenshot in post #3 should be enough.

I'm not sure if you understood what I meant. You answered the last couple questions, so thankyou. In mpchc under> Mpchc>external filters I was wondering if I should add - Reclock, madvr, Lav splitter and Lav splitter source, along with what is already there: Lav cuvid, Lav audio decoder and ffdshow audio decoder?

Under internal filters I unchecked everything in the two boxes marked "source filters and "transform filter". So adding Reclock, madvr, Lav splitter and lav splitter source does nothing when added to options>external filter>add external filters? I have Reclock and madvr checked under options>output but Lav splitter and Lav splitter source aren't setup anywhere that's why I was wondering if they should be added to the external filters>add external filters box. If not then where do I set the Lav splitter and Lav splitter source up at?

Double framerate: I was just asking where and how you access this.

Lav audio decoder: I was asking how and where you access this, double clicking does nothing in mpchc>external filters. I have the ffdshow audio boxes checked I want it to bitstream but I need to uncheck/check the ones in Lav audio decoder but I don't know how to access it.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly. So your saying that Lavsplitter and Lavsplitter source should be in the list under internal filters> source filters? All that is in that list are audio formats such as dts, mpeg etc. Your saying it should be listed there along with the audio formats and if its not or in the registry than the splitter that will be used will be the one under options>output? But all that is setup there is the video rendered(madvr) and audio rendered(Reclock).

-So basically to simplify my questions:
-do I add Lav splitter, Lav source, madvr and Reclock to the external filter box?
-If not where and how do I setup Lav splitter and Lav splitter source?
-Where and how do I setup double framerate(this one isn't that imoortant)
-Where and how do I setup Lav audio decoder
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post #130 of 168
5/1/11 at 3:23pm
First you need to understand the very basic procedure of handling filters. Every DirectShow filter falls into one of the three categories:

- Source/splitter filter (you may need a source filter and a splitter filter separately; e.g. you can use either File Source (Async.) + LAV Splitter or LAV Splitter Source)
- Transform filter
- Renderer filter

To playback video and audio, you will need all three filters (you can use more than one transform filter):

- source/splitter filter ➝ video transform filter(s) ➝ video renderer filter (➝ video driver/device)
- source/splitter filter ➝ audio transform filter(s) ➝ audio renderer filter (➝ Windows audio engine [can be bypassed via WASAPI exclusive mode] ➝ audio driver/device)

MPC HomeCinema searches for a filter in each category in this order:

Source/splitter filter

1. Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters: checked filters
2. HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions
3. Options > External Filters: preferred filters
4. Registered filter of the highest merit value

Transform filter

1. Options > External Filters: preferred filters
2. Options > Internal Filters > Transform Filters: checked filters
3. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\DirectShow\\Preferr ed
4. Registered filter of the highest merit value.

Renderer filter

1. Options > External Filters: preferred filters (Loading a renderer this way should be avoided.)
2. Options > Playback > Output

As for ReClock audio renderer, it replaces the "System Default" audio renderer automatically if you select "Load always". So I usually select "System Default" audio renderer.

****

How to access the filter properties

Launch GraphStudio. Graph menu > Insert Filter... > DirectShow Filters: select a filter and click the Properties page button. As for a transform filter, you can also access it by double clicking the filter name in Options > Internal Filters > Transform filters pane or Options > External Filters pane. But not every filter has a "Properties" dialog box.

How to change the merit value of a filter

Launch GraphStudio as administrator. Graph menu > Insert Filter... > DirectShow Filters: select a filter and click the Change merit button. Write "New value", click the OK button. Log off and log in (for the change to be reflected).

The above should answer all of your questions.
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post #131 of 168
5/2/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx
First you need to understand the very basic procedure of handling filters. Every DirectShow filter falls into one of the three categories:

- Source/splitter filter (you may need a source filter and a splitter filter separately; e.g. you can use either File Source (Async.) + LAV Splitter or LAV Splitter Source)
- Transform filter
- Renderer filter

To playback video and audio, you will need all three filters (you can use more than one transform filter):

- source/splitter filter ? video transform filter(s) ? video renderer filter (? video driver/device)
- source/splitter filter ? audio transform filter(s) ? audio renderer filter (? Windows audio engine [can be bypassed via WASAPI exclusive mode] ? audio driver/device)

MPC HomeCinema searches for a filter in each category in this order:

Source/splitter filter

1. Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters: checked filters
2. HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\\Media Type\\Extensions
3. Registered filter of the highest merit value

Transform filter

1. Options > External Filters: preferred filters
2. Options > Internal Filters > Source Filters: checked filters
3. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\DirectShow\\Preferr ed (details)
4. Registered filter of the highest merit value.

Renderer filter

1. Options > Playback > Output (the renderer filters you selected here will be always used.)

Handling source/splitter filter could be improved to the same level as transform filters, but right now MPC HomeCinema handles it awkwardly. As for ReClock audio renderer, it replaces the "System Default" audio renderer automatically if you select "Load always". So I usually select "System Default" audio renderer.

****

How to access the filter properties

Launch GraphStudio. Graph menu > Insert Filter... > DirectShow Filters: select a filter and click the Properties page button. As for a transform filter, you can also access it by double clicking the filter name in Options > Internal Filters > Transform filters pane or Options > External Filters pane. But not every filter has a "Properties" dialog box.

How to change the merit value of a filter

Launch GraphStudio as administrator. Graph menu > Insert Filter... > DirectShow Filters: select a filter and click the Change merit button. Write "New value", click the OK button. Log off and log in (for the change to be reflected).

The above should answer all of your questions.
I'm extremely grateful for your reply to my question. I want and need to learn all of this stuff and much more. I learn a little more everyday. It's just that I was trying to get the answer to a math problem and you are trying to teach me how to do algebra. I understand I need and want to know how things work before I understand them and can attempt to solve a problem. In no way am I trying to get a quick fix without learning this stuff, I absolutely want to. It helps enourmisly in figuring out a problem if you can see the whole picture and understand it. It's just that your explaining a couple steps farther down the road than where I'm at. I'm sure this is extremely easy, basic stuff for you but that is not the case for me. I vaguely understand most of what you explained, but probably only about a quarter of it that sunk in that I actually understand. So because of that I got a couple of the answers I was searching for. But again I thank you for your answers, and I'm bookmarking them so when I get to that point, I'm sure your information will help me greatly. I'm just trying to get it setup and working until I can figure out how it works. Thank-you.
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post #132 of 168
5/2/11 at 8:32pm
Now LAV Audio Decoder (later than v0.24) is the only audio transform filter you need, that bitstreams all the BD/DVD compressed audio formats and decodes the others to LPCM bit-perfect.

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post #133 of 168
5/2/11 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Now LAV Audio Decoder (later than v0.24) is the only audio transform filter you need, that bitstreams all the BD/DVD compressed audio formats and decodes the others to LPCM bit-perfect.

So I don't need reclock anymore either for lpcm?
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post #134 of 168
5/2/11 at 9:17pm
You still need ReClock to select WASAPI exclusive mode instead of the default WASAPI shared mode.

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post #135 of 168
5/2/11 at 10:36pm
BTW, This does work with build 190 of TMT 3
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post #136 of 168
5/5/11 at 11:36pm
Rene

Do you know if there's a way to set the Arcsoft DTS decoder to output the same number of channels as the source stream?

So 5.1 for 5.1 and 7.1 for 7.1?

Or do we have any idea what it does when you have a 5.1 channel source and 7.1 channel output?

Edit: It just leaves the extra two channels (sides) empty, but present. Which means you can't get ffdshow audio to trigger different profiles off the number of channels

Thanks

Mark
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post #137 of 168
5/6/11 at 1:21am
Have you added the line

AudioOutputMode=17

to win.ini? Use only the decoder from TMT3 185/190. ArcSoft Codec.zip includes the one from TMT2 185.
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post #138 of 168
5/6/11 at 1:32am
I have my ArcSoft decoder set to 7.1 output using the win.ini thing, and on 5.1 DTS files, ReClock reports it receives 6 channel audio, so everything seems to be perfect.

Note that the initial media type may be wrong, as the decoder cannot know how the bitstream looks before it receives any data. I remember someone saying that ffdshow audio does not reload profiles when the media type changes at a later stage.

This is really a ffdshow problem.
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post #139 of 168
5/6/11 at 1:32am
Edit: missed Nev's post.

Yes, I have all that.

I always get 7.1 channels, even with a 5.1 soundtrack (but the 2 side channels are silent in this case).

Do you get different numbers of channels? Or always 7.1?


I'll have to have more of a play.
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post #140 of 168
5/6/11 at 4:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Have you added the line

AudioOutputMode=17

to win.ini? Use only the decoder from TMT3 185/190. ArcSoft Codec.zip includes the one from TMT2 185.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post

I have my ArcSoft decoder set to 7.1 output using the win.ini thing, and on 5.1 DTS files, ReClock reports it receives 6 channel audio, so everything seems to be perfect.

Note that the initial media type may be wrong, as the decoder cannot know how the bitstream looks before it receives any data. I remember someone saying that ffdshow audio does not reload profiles when the media type changes at a later stage.

This is really a ffdshow problem.

Sorry guys, you are right. It is ffdshow doing some funny things that's messing me up.

Basically it won't work at all if I have ffdshow mixer unchecked, or set to "same as input". It has to be 5 or 7 channels + LFE for convolver wrapper to work (which is kind of exotic).

It's not the same with madFLAC as the filter prior to ffdshow audio.

Very strange.


Edit: Actually, it would be very nice if someone would mod ffdshow to access the arcsoft decoder as an internal decoder for DTS- like WMV9 for WMV video. Maybe that would help with some of the quirks?
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post #141 of 168
5/9/11 at 10:50am
Has anyone besides Renethx been able to get this to work effectively?
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post #142 of 168
5/9/11 at 2:43pm
Yes, it works fine.

I've had a few quirks, but mostly self inflicted.
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post #143 of 168
5/10/11 at 8:19pm
@ rene if what I want to do is bitstream using lav audio decoder, and be able to send lpcm bluray audio to my avr as you explained earlier in the thread to joeydrunk does this guide give me accurate settings for reclock? http://www.homecinema-hd.com/reclock_en.html I see some settings seem different than yours such as accept bit streaming. Mainly just looking for proper setup of reclock for lpcm if I am bit streaming all other codecs with la audio. Thanks in advance!
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post #144 of 168
5/10/11 at 9:41pm
Just try my settings. If something goes wrong, report it here. Checking "Accept bitstream..." is necessary if you want bitstream TrueHD/DTS-HD/E-AC-3/AC3/DTS.
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post #145 of 168
5/10/11 at 9:47pm
Thanks Rene i will give it a go and report back.
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post #146 of 168
5/12/11 at 10:18am
may i ask you sth?
i have installed ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD for DTS-MA HD
LAV Audio for True HD
and i did all of your Reclock Settings.
I changed only PCM Output:
Sampling Rate : Same as input (default)
Format : Same as input (default)

When i have DTS HD - MA everyhting works fine.
When i use TrueHD i have this Reclock error and no sound.

ReClockInitializeWasapiClient

The audio format is not supported by the hardware/driver
48000samples/sec
24 bit PCM
6 Channels


My sound card supports even 24/192 ( i have some flacs that playing succesfully)

the other strange thing is that
Mediainfo says that my file is 16bits 48k
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post #147 of 168
5/12/11 at 6:11pm
Many audio devices support 24-bit, but accept only 32-bit = 24-bit + zero padded somehow. In this case selecting Format: Same as input (default) won't work.
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post #148 of 168
5/12/11 at 11:25pm
I usually go with Output configured to "24bit padded to 32", and "16bit for 16bit sources" checked, otherwise i would get the same thing as you there.
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post #149 of 168
5/13/11 at 3:46am
Renethx, now that LavAudio can pass HD Audio bitstream output directly to the AVR via HDMI (or to Reclock first to produce PCM), is there any need to included TMT3 in the chain? As always, many thanks for your help.

P.S. can LAVAudio also be used to bypass Windows Resampling for two channel auido music playback? If so, can one continue to use the WMC interface?
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post #150 of 168
5/13/11 at 3:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by battles View Post

Renethx, now that LavAudio can pass HD Audio bitstream output directly to the AVR via HDMI (or to Reclock first to produce PCM), is there any need to included TMT3 in the chain? As always, many thanks for your help.

P.S. can LAVAudio also be used to bypass Windows Resampling for two channel auido music playback? If so, can one continue to use the WMC interface?

ArcSoft Audio Decoder HD is for decoding only.

Selecting bypassing Windows Audio Engine or not (in other words selecting Windows WASAPI exclusive/shared mode) is not the role of the audio decoder. It's the role of the audio renderer.
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