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TotalMedia Theatre 5 - Page 113

post #3361 of 3674
Where did you read about TMT6?
post #3362 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I would call clicking on the mce player pretty normal functionality that should not cause a crash

That's not what's happening in the situation described if we're understanding each other correctly. Please ignore your 3rd party product and click on the TMT option in the main MCE strip. TMT should not crash when launched in that way. Then please launch TMT using W7's built in Movie Library to select a disc from the optical drive or a rip. TMT should not crash when launched in that way. If that's all true for you (like it is for me), you've now experienced the two supported methods of launching TMT's MCE plug-in.
Quote:
we discussed this once before but as i mentioned with auto refresh on, and simply clicking on the mce tmt player to launch it with a mouse will even cause it to crash,

That may be true of your case, but it's not generally true and it's not what I'm referring to above. If you are experiencing a problem with the methods listed above, that is a bug. That can and should be fixed, but it will (theoretically) not impact the crash when using 3rd party tools that launch via the unsupported command line parameters they reverse engineered.
Quote:
Reverse engineering is not whats being done

You're mistaken about the history of how this functionality got into the public domain and became widely used with the retail version. It's not rocket science, and it's not too surprising that it was found, but that doesn't change the method by which it was discovered or ArcSoft's position on its status as supported/unsupported functionality.
Quote:
And if i am not mistaken didnt this particular way mce tmt player needs to be launched just change in the last while, it was not always like this and people were not always complaining and having issues.

It wasn't a problem because people weren't trying to use it in a way that crashes because the supported function that crashes (refresh rate switching) did not exist at the time. So users only started complaining when they tried to use the new supported feature in conjuction with the unsupported feature. Users are forced to choose between using one or the other and we don't particuarly care which. (If we did, we'd just completely disable the UNSUPPORTED function, but that only hurts customers who are fine with the compromises related to using the unsupported feature. We have no desired to punish those customers because a few people choose to complain about unsupported functionaility. We actually DID disable it in one release and I argued to get it reinstated in unsupported form.)
post #3363 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

Apparently tmt 6 is coming out next month? Anyone know if it will have cineavia, has arcsoft ever addressed this?

(No comment on TMT6 in any regard, even whether or not it exists.)

Cinavia is a requirement for all AACS licensees for all in-support hardware and software players if they want to maintain their license. It's coming (eventually) to everything that's not discontinued.
post #3364 of 3674
"That's not what's happening in the situation described if we're understanding each other correctly. Please ignore your 3rd party product and click on the TMT option in the main MCE strip. TMT should not crash when launched in that way. Then please launch TMT using W7's built in Movie Library to select a disc from the optical drive or a rip. TMT should not crash when launched in that way. If that's all true for you (like it is for me), you've now experienced the two supported methods of launching TMT's MCE plug-in"

This is where we clearly differ, I want to use tmt mce on my windows machine simply because I have an mce remote, but do not want to be forced to use windows 7 MCE stock movie library software in order for it to launch properly so it wont crash on exit.

Just to clarify when I say double clicking or using a hotkey to launch the mce player causing a crash, i dont mean its crashing on startup. I mean even using a basic hotkey, or double click to launch the mce player will cause a crash on exit.

My 3rd party program is not doing anything to integrate TMT mce, it is simply triggering a bat file in windows to launch it on my windows 7 machine, completely outside of the program. And unless we are using windows 7 mce built in library, we cannot use this program without the crash on exit if we want refresh rate switching.

Again this could be avoided if arcsoft would allow its other player to work easily with a mce remote. But at this point, their is no easy way for someone to use a mce remote with your other player. Many (nearly all) htpc users use an mce remote, but dont use the stock built in windows mce movie library software. Many winodws users use different variations of mce such as media browser or media portal or entirely different software like xbmc. And if you use it with xbmc all your doing is trying to launch the player with a simple archaic bat file...which is of course not supported and as a customer I personally dont like....

In the htpc world very few people use it the way you are describing "using windows 7 built in movie library". Its nice you do, but many of your customers do not. Most htpc users use mce remotes, and want to use an mce remote with tmt, but we use xbmc or media portal or media browser and thats where alot of tmt paying customers come from.

Thats arcsoft choice though, and probably why so many people dislike the product. I am one of the few usually defending it on here. But in this instance I just do not like the only resolution to a crash on exiting the program, is to use W7 built in stock movie library program because arcsoft tells me to or the player will continue to crash on exit. I do not like this resolution, but I am just a customer voicing his opinion. I understand thats what it was designed for...I understand this. However thats why myself and other people are voicing our opinion asking for more flexibility in using your product, I also think arcsoft should re-evaluate what programs people are using with their product.. Given the state of WMC, its supporters are going to come from using different software or variations of mce such as media browser or portal or entirely different software all together.
Edited by Murilo - 9/18/12 at 2:14am
post #3365 of 3674
On a positive arcsoft note i am getting much better discussion going with support now, some actual helpful responses willing to work with me to resolve issues.

He also mentioned cineavia is currently in testing and wont be part of tmt 6 right now.

And for people asking where i read this, it is someone i have been talking to in the support department. Since I use tmt alot and am helping diagnose issues regarding play back of problematic discs, he has mentioned the new upcoming version.
Edited by Murilo - 9/17/12 at 8:34pm
post #3366 of 3674
I hesitate to continue because I don't want it to sound argumentative and repetetive but one last stab and you can have the last word (barring something with a question mark) if you want it... smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

This is where we clearly differ, I want to use tmt mce on my windows machine simply because I have an mce remote, but do not want to be forced to use windows 7 MCE stock movie library software in order for it to launch properly so it wont crash on exit.

That's just an example for test purposes because we know it works right. Other vendors are entirely free to use the exact same method to launch TMT. MyMovies works fine according to those guys. My understanding from the Media Browser team was that they had it working fine too, though some users seem to dispute that. This functionality is available for anyone to use. It's not our fault they choose not to. The plug-in is marketed as and intended to be a Media Center plug-in and its design considerations, including the method of launch, take that into account.
Quote:
My 3rd party program is not doing anything to integrate TMT mce, it is simply triggering a bat file in windows to launch it on my windows 7 machine, completely outside of the program.

Right, and that's exactly the problem. It's designed to be run a particular way within MCE. That's the environment that the auto-switching was built to support and by circumventing it you introduce the problem state where it fails.
Quote:
And unless we are using windows 7 mce built in library, we cannot use this program without the crash on exit if we want refresh rate switching.

Not true, as noted above. There are other options, and other even more could support it if they desire.
Quote:
Again this could be avoided if arcsoft would allow its other player to work easily with a mce remote. But at this point, their is no easy way for someone to use a mce remote with your other player.

It's so suboptimal that it's not worth the resources and the number of people it would actually help is near-zero. Just a resource management non-starter.
Quote:
Many (nearly all) htpc users use an mce remote, but dont use the stock built in windows mce movie library software. Many winodws users use different variations of mce such as media browser or media portal or entirely different software like xbmc. And if you use it with xbmc all your doing is trying to launch the player with a simple archaic bat file

I'd humbly suggest that if you're going that far into a custom rig our unsupported command line launch should work fine as long as you disable auto refresh changing and then use a third party tool for this purpose. In my experience they work better and more consistently anyway and are no more difficult to set up than things you've already tackled. Sure, it would be great if it weren't necessary but it would seem to be one of those things you could spend an hour to work around or 6 months complaining about. I'd just spend the hour. {shrug} smile.gif
Quote:
Thats arcsoft choice though, and probably why so many people dislike the product. I am one of the few usually defending it on here. But in this instance I just do not like the only resolution to a crash on exiting the program, is to use W7 built in stock movie library program because arcsoft tells me to or the player will continue to crash on exit. I do not like this resolution, but I am just a customer voicing his opinion. I understand thats what it was designed for...I understand this. However thats why myself and other people are voicing our opinion asking for more flexibility in using your product, I also think arcsoft should re-evaluate what programs people are using with their product.. Given the state of WMC, its supporters are going to come from using different software or variations of mce such as media browser or portal or entirely different software all together.

Yup. No product will please everyone and everyone is entitled to prioritize whatever they desire most. It's really no-win for vendors. It's always a choice betweeen doing A and B and that choice always leaves some subset of customers unhappy. You just do the best you can, try to do things that address the more common requests, and hope for the best. I'd love it if more resources were available for TMT Retail, but they aren't. That's business...
post #3367 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

On a positive arcsoft note i am getting much better discussion going with support now, some actual helpful responses willing to work with me to resolve issues.
He also mentioned cineavia is currently in testing and wont be part of tmt 6 right now.
And for people asking where i read this, it is someone i have been talking to in the support department. Since I use tmt alot and am helping diagnose issues regarding play back of problematic discs, he has mentioned the new upcoming version.

Glad to hear you're making some progress.

For anything CS tells you outside of their CS duties, I recommend taking it with a grain of salt. They are on record as having given out incorrect info on more than one occasion when commenting on stuff outside the scope of their job. Just FYI. smile.gif
post #3368 of 3674
I just did a test using the MCE version of TMT5, MediaBrowser (whatever the lastest version is), an Onkyo 3010, and a Panasonic AE4000 projector. I checked the refresh rate switching box in the MCE version of TMT5 and played Captain America by launching the ISO through MediaBrowser. I watched the handshake happen, so I know it shifted to 29Hz for the movie. I opened a chapter a bit into the movie and played a little, then hit Stop on the Windows Remote. It stopped and returned me to WMC. No crash.

I normally do not use the refresh rate changer because I see absolutely no difference between 29 and 59 Hz, so it is simply an added waste of time when launching a movie.
post #3369 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I just did a test using the MCE version of TMT5, MediaBrowser (whatever the lastest version is), an Onkyo 3010, and a Panasonic AE4000 projector. I checked the refresh rate switching box in the MCE version of TMT5 and played Captain America by launching the ISO through MediaBrowser. I watched the handshake happen, so I know it shifted to 29Hz for the movie. I opened a chapter a bit into the movie and played a little, then hit Stop on the Windows Remote. It stopped and returned me to WMC. No crash.
I normally do not use the refresh rate changer because I see absolutely no difference between 29 and 59 Hz, so it is simply an added waste of time when launching a movie.

You need the refresh rate primarily for the 3d specification, 24, or if your video purist I guess, if you have some time, run your test again, but this time watch a few minutes of a couple of different movies, If I watch just one movie, I don't have any issues either, but if I try to watch something else, switching movies a few times, I also experience MCE crashing, but it could be unrelated to whats being described here, I'm not sure..

Jason (arcsoft)
do you need to run at 24hz for 3d? I've not tried it any other way.
post #3370 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

do you need to run at 24hz for 3d? I've not tried it any other way.

Most BD 3D titles should run @23.976Hz (not 24Hz).

IIRC the HDMI spec only allows for 1080p24 (most BD titles) or 720p60 (mostly for gaming) 3D modes.
post #3371 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

Jason (arcsoft)
do you need to run at 24hz for 3d? I've not tried it any other way.

In theory it's supposed to be the peak bandwidth for HDMI 1.4 BD 3D so if you're in the typical 1080p60 you theoretically must drop down. As Andy said, 720p60 is also officially supported and I've seen projectors that do that. I'm not sure if playback would balk at something else within the parameters if you found a way to manually set it up but I'd guess the software and drivers will always be fighting for one of the noted two modes.
post #3372 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbailey75 View Post

You need the refresh rate primarily for the 3d specification, 24, or if your video purist I guess, if you have some time, run your test again, but this time watch a few minutes of a couple of different movies, If I watch just one movie, I don't have any issues either, but if I try to watch something else, switching movies a few times, I also experience MCE crashing, but it could be unrelated to whats being described here, I'm not sure..
Jason (arcsoft)
do you need to run at 24hz for 3d? I've not tried it any other way.

Ah, ok. I do not have a 3D capable system.
post #3373 of 3674
Using my ATI 4850 (win 7 x64), I continue to have issues on my dual monitor setup with TMT5. I have my HTPC connected via DVI to my desk area monitor, and then run HDMI to my living room AVR. With TMT3, this configuration worked fine. However, TMT5 simply wont play any media when a second monitor is connected. WMC launches fine, as does MediaBrowser; however, TMT5 simply goes black when starting a movie. I've tried turning off the second (desk area) display (which is set as monitor 2 in extend mode when my living room TV is on), but the problem persists.

Any suggestions beyond completely disconnecting my desk area monitor? I only play movies on my living room TV connected via HDMI and this is a real problem for me.
post #3374 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdwright77 View Post

Using my ATI 4850 (win 7 x64), I continue to have issues on my dual monitor setup with TMT5. I have my HTPC connected via DVI to my desk area monitor, and then run HDMI to my living room AVR. With TMT3, this configuration worked fine. However, TMT5 simply wont play any media when a second monitor is connected. WMC launches fine, as does MediaBrowser; however, TMT5 simply goes black when starting a movie. I've tried turning off the second (desk area) display (which is set as monitor 2 in extend mode when my living room TV is on), but the problem persists.
Any suggestions beyond completely disconnecting my desk area monitor? I only play movies on my living room TV connected via HDMI and this is a real problem for me.

If it's at all helpful to anyone, I was able to get this working using UltraMon. I simply ignored/disabled the second (desk area) monitor. The settings persist when connecting to my living room AVR/display, so no further changes are needed each time I launch a movie.
post #3375 of 3674
what are you guys doing for audio sync issues while watching 3d iso through tmt5? I watched avengers last night and it was very much out of sync approximately 10 minutes into the movie. i'm not very experienced with my htpc (newbie) so i would appreciate any advice you guys can offer. thanks in advance.


htpc
AMD
windows 7
post #3376 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by azula View Post

what are you guys doing for audio sync issues while watching 3d iso through tmt5? I watched avengers last night and it was very much out of sync approximately 10 minutes into the movie. i'm not very experienced with my htpc (newbie) so i would appreciate any advice you guys can offer. thanks in advance.
htpc
AMD
windows 7

I switched to Powerdvd 11 for that reason. Is suppose to be fixed with latest version, what version are you using?

Good info here http://www.arcsoft.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=22&SID=eb87eaff-6869-e2563a4d-54dfc259-c6d8c1d5&title=totalmedia-extreme-totalmedia-theatre

Good thread to read through if haven't yet http://www.arcsoft.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10397&title=totalmedia-theatre-531144-release-notes
post #3377 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4mopar View Post

I switched to Powerdvd 11 for that reason. Is suppose to be fixed with latest version, what version are you using?
Good info here http://www.arcsoft.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=22&SID=eb87eaff-6869-e2563a4d-54dfc259-c6d8c1d5&title=totalmedia-extreme-totalmedia-theatre
Good thread to read through if haven't yet http://www.arcsoft.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10397&title=totalmedia-theatre-531144-release-notes


thanks man4,

I checked out the two threads and it seems like it is a very common issue. I really don't have the time to try workarounds such as reclock as I was hoping that it would just "work". I'm pretty sure I have the latest version but I'd have to check when I get home. I will give PowerDVD a try as well. Thanks again.
post #3378 of 3674
When might we expect a patch enabling TMT5 to play the Special Features disc of "Prometheus"? mad.gif
post #3379 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by applesandrice View Post

When might we expect a patch enabling TMT5 to play the Special Features disc of "Prometheus"? mad.gif

ArcSoft support is probably a better source of answers for these sorts of questions.
post #3380 of 3674
Perhaps ... in a perfect world, anyway. Yet when I ask the question there I get a barely intelligible response written in sort-of English that really doesn't tell me anything I don't already know.

"Thank you for contacting ArcSoft. It's Josie to help.



Regarding your concern, the latest BD discs might not be support to display by TMT and the update patch will be released in several weeks. Your patience and understanding would be very much appreciated.

The update patch will be resolved the newest BD playback problem then. We recommend you to try the patch to see if it can work for you then.

We hope this information helps. Please feel free to contact us if you have any other questions.



Wish you a nice day!



Best Regards,
ArcSoft Support"


Meanwhile, it sounds like PowerDVD had a fix available just a couple of days after the release ...
post #3381 of 3674
The ESL problem is real and unfortunately unavoidable given the economics of the situation, but I think you are unreasonably discounting the response. You asked "when?" They replied "several weeks."

This isn't intended as sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in why you find that CS interaction unsatisfactory: What more did you want out of it and how did you already know that answer?
post #3382 of 3674
Well I have to say that is a copy and paste responce if ever I seen one. I am sure they keep that on file and use it anytime they are asked about a disc that doesn't work.

How about a more personal response stating that they know about the specific title you asked about, that they know what the issue is and if they are actually working on it or not.

If it takes several weeks to get new disc security fixes so they play you might as well close up shop. When a new title comes out people don't want to wait to beable to watch it.

To the original poster I would highly consider getting AnyDVD HD, I have been running it since I started having a HTPC and never had a disc that I couldn't play, the day a movie is out it works. I don't care for having to take back door ways around copy protection, but it seems we are almost forced to now days if we want to use the products that we pay for.
post #3383 of 3674
I use AnyDVD HD for the same reason...plus I prefer to keep my discs in the closet and use the MB to launch my movie ISOs. I do not blame Arcsoft for the delay as much as the studios for not giving everyone ample heads up about changes.
post #3384 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I do not blame Arcsoft for the delay as much as the studios for not giving everyone ample heads up about changes.

I will second that.....wink.gif
post #3385 of 3674
I think we all know where I stand on this issue. You want to deal with ahem "disc compatibility issues" in an expedient manner, go get AnyDVD. Otherwise you will have to wait for the issue to be reported to ArcSoft tech support, then once enough people have reported it, it'll get escalated, and finally a few weeks later it'll get resolved with a patch. Due to the nature of their business, it's not possible for them to be as quick as companies like SlySoft in dealing with these particular issues. They WILL deal with them, but, not until the problem is known which is generally after a disc has reached the market. I'm not trying to be a shill for SlySoft here. I genuinely feel they have the best solution for dealing with these kinds of issues. I wouldn't own an HTPC without it.
post #3386 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

Well I have to say that is a copy and paste responce if ever I seen one. I am sure they keep that on file and use it anytime they are asked about a disc that doesn't work.
How about a more personal response stating that they know about the specific title you asked about, that they know what the issue is and if they are actually working on it or not.

The actual bit of content is not copy/paste because it includes a timeframe. Point taken on the phrasing.
Quote:
If it takes several weeks to get new disc security fixes so they play you might as well close up shop. When a new title comes out people don't want to wait to beable to watch it.

That's an unrealistic expectation for Blu-ray on the PC (unless you're willing to invest in AnyDVD.) Blu-rays haven't stopped selling and we haven't had to close up shop yet. biggrin.gif And there are even a few rare cases where AnyDVD or a hardware player aren't perfect/instant though there's no denying they are much much more bulletproof than barebones PC playback through a commercial player.
post #3387 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

The actual bit of content is not copy/paste because it includes a timeframe. Point taken on the phrasing.
That's an unrealistic expectation for Blu-ray on the PC (unless you're willing to invest in AnyDVD.) Blu-rays haven't stopped selling and we haven't had to close up shop yet. biggrin.gif And there are even a few rare cases where AnyDVD or a hardware player aren't perfect/instant though there's no denying they are much much more bulletproof than barebones PC playback through a commercial player.

I think we all need to get our pitch forks and torches and go on a witch hunt for all this copy protection crap we have to deal with biggrin.gif

Either way I still love TMT and wouldn't be with out it. I even get to use TMT5 now that Media Browser has it launching correctly I have no issues.
post #3388 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

And there are even a few rare cases where AnyDVD or a hardware player aren't perfect/instant though there's no denying they are much much more bulletproof than barebones PC playback through a commercial player.

FWIW, I've had more problems getting discs to load on CE players than w/ AnyDVD HD + TMT. It sucks that we need AnyDVD HD to get there, but since it's the best way to free my content from its plasticy shell so I'd have it anyway.
post #3389 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mopar_Mudder View Post

I think we all need to get our pitch forks and torches and go on a witch hunt for all this copy protection crap we have to deal with biggrin.gif

HD-DVD had a couple less headaches but even that, had it won, would not have been the panacea enthusiasts are looking for. The problem is you guys could vote with your dollars but that would likely have killed the format vs creating a more enthusiast friendly alternative. I don't pretend to have any answer that's both realistic, and good. As Andy mentioned directly above, AnyDVD, no matter how much studios hate it, seems to be the best compromise for a lot of their core customers for now.
post #3390 of 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcSoft_Jason View Post

The ESL problem is real and unfortunately unavoidable given the economics of the situation, but I think you are unreasonably discounting the response. You asked "when?" They replied "several weeks."
This isn't intended as sarcasm, I'm genuinely interested in why you find that CS interaction unsatisfactory: What more did you want out of it and how did you already know that answer?





There were a number of things which I found unsatisfactory about that response. First, the response is poorly worded and difficult to understand. Second, the message appeared to be a generic dismissal of the issue, especially since it didn't specifically address the problem. Third, there wasn't a clear time frame given as to when a patch might be delivered. "Several weeks" is an entirely subjective response. Is that three weeks? Five? Ten?

This is hardly the first time that Fox has released a disc which has caused TMT to choke. Why is it that they continue to catch Arcsoft so ill-prepared? How is it that PowerDVD suffered the same issue with this title, but was able to correct the problem so quickly? After purchasing a Blu-ray drive for my HTPC, a copy of TMT5, and all of the various Blu-ray titles, why should I need to purchase yet another product (AnyDVD) in order to make all the others work?
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